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CommieGIR posted:Wha? Got a link? I recall one breaking up midair during training probably a decade or so ago, after which a bunch of them (except Mud Hens) were grounded for months. fake edit: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/89823/defects-found-in-40-of-usaf%E2%80%99s-f_15a_d-fighters.html
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Dec 26, 2016 19:54
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That's the big one. Here's the AF's recreation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmGDSgdlbI Then there was the Kadena crash in 2013, which was due to the control surfaces not responding, the 2015 Virginia crash which I don't think was ever really explained beyond the pilot becoming incapacitated after reporting an emergency. Two F-15Cs have been lost in the past 5 years or so due to radome components failing. Not quite as dramatic sounding as "total structural failure" but still symptoms of an aging fleet that still has another 2+ decades of service to survive.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:50
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Godholio posted:That's the big one. Here's the AF's recreation: Hah the main gear extended after the front 1/3rd snapped off? Nice. Gotta be weird as hell to be flying along and then "huh wait why aren't the controls responding? why am I pitching up?? WHERE'S THE REST OF MY PLANE?!?"
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Dec 27, 2016 01:49
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hobbesmaster posted:Tell that to F-15C pilots whose planes keep disintegrating around them. When was the last time that happened? 2007. To one plane. They were grounded, they figured out the problem, identified the 10 airframes affected by it, and released the others to flight.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:52
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Duke Chin posted:Hah the main gear extended after the front 1/3rd snapped off? Nice. Gotta be weird as hell to be flying along and then "huh wait why aren't the controls responding? why am I pitching up?? WHERE'S THE REST OF MY PLANE?!?" F15 pilots don't have the best reputation for noticing when their wings fall off. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 02:12
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shame on an IGA posted:F15 pilots don't have the best reputation for noticing when their wings fall off. Oh he noticed. Then he just said לעזאזל עם זה and decided to land it anyway.
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Dec 27, 2016 02:23
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Mr. Showtime posted:fake edit: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/89823/defects-found-in-40-of-usaf%E2%80%99s-f_15a_d-fighters.html Gen. John D.W. Corley, the commander of Air Combat Command posted:I have a fleet that is 100 percent fatigued, and 40 percent of that has bad parts. The long-term future of the F-15 is in question. I don't know much about the story - I just read the article linked above - but maybe what's happening here is there's some benefit to talking up the problems with the current fleet to improve your odds of getting a new one?
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Dec 27, 2016 04:18
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What would you rather have, an airplane with a fatigued frame or one that turns the oxygen off when you fly over the international date line
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Dec 27, 2016 16:59
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rscott posted:What would you rather have, an airplane with a fatigued frame or one that turns the oxygen off when you fly over the international date line That's easy. One of these kills you predictably, one unpredictably (or mostly so). If you can predict that your oxygen will turn off crossing a certain point, you don't go anywhere near that point, ever. Then you don't die. Operational problems are someone else's problem, not dying is far more important.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:26
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rscott posted:What would you rather have, an airplane with a fatigued frame or one that turns the oxygen off when you fly over the international date line The second one, because that never happened.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:34
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SeaborneClink posted:The second one, because that never happened. Its a combination of two problems that HAVE happened. F-22 Pilots are reporting consistent oxygen/breathing issues, although supposedly they've been alleviated. And the other problem was when a flight of F-22s crossed the dateline and cause all their avionics to crash, they had to follow their tanker to Hawaii by Line of Sight. quote:Operational problems have been experienced and some have caused fleet-wide groundings. Critically, pilots have experienced a decreased mental status, including losing consciousness. There were reports of instances of pilots found to have a decreased level of alertness or memory loss after landing.[215] F-22 pilots have experienced lingering respiratory problems and a chronic cough; other symptoms include irritability, emotional lability and neurological changes.[215] A number of possible causes were investigated, including possible exposure to noxious chemical agents from the respiratory tubing, pressure suit malfunction, side effects from oxygen delivery at greater-than-atmospheric concentrations, and oxygen supply disruptions. Other problems include minor mechanical problems and navigational software failures.[216] The fleet was grounded for four months in 2011 before resuming flight, but reports of oxygen issues persisted.[217] http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22-squadron-shot-down-by-the-international-date-line-03087/
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Dec 27, 2016 17:43
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I'm very aware of both faults. I'm being pedantic because you can't amalgamate two unrelated incidents to arrive at  'plane sukz'
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Dec 27, 2016 17:48
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Why was a contract awarded the manufacturer of the jet to fix something that the manufacturer hosed up to begin with? Because
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Dec 27, 2016 17:50
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Because stealthy fighter planes are not commodity items.
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Dec 27, 2016 17:51
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Yeah I combined them in my head for some reason
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Dec 27, 2016 17:52
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Nickelsack posted:Why was a contract awarded the manufacturer of the jet to fix something that the manufacturer hosed up to begin with? Because otherwise you'll also pay for a bunch of engineers to learn everything about the aircraft from LM before even starting on the problem?
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Dec 27, 2016 17:52
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Why not simply say "fix it/quit killing our pilots. Until such time this occurs, payments are hereby suspended." Then watch how fast that poo poo gets sorted
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Dec 27, 2016 18:10
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Nickelsack posted:Why not simply say "fix it/quit killing our pilots. Until such time this occurs, payments are hereby suspended." Then watch how fast that poo poo gets sorted Because that's illegal?
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Dec 27, 2016 18:25
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CommieGIR posted:Its a combination of two problems that HAVE happened. F-22 Pilots are reporting consistent oxygen/breathing issues, although supposedly they've been alleviated. Ok so the first part hadn't really got anything to do with the aircraft itself, more the pressure suit performance and cabin air filters, which were replaced. The second, the data dump, obviously the AF isn't going to go into specifics, but the systems in question sound suspiciously like FMS data (nav, comms, and fuel (calculated)), which is exactly the kind of thing that gets dumped when there's a related computer problem (or more commonly finger trouble when inputting). Given that it's a press briefing and the general giving it is only going to a rough idea of the circumstances pulled from an incident report, I wouldn't put too much stock in it being a dire problem. It was probably fully resolved before he even gave the briefing. Ok I'm on the civilian side of things, but I read these things, and equating them with "f22 is a deathtrap because of poor cabin air quality and a computer glitch it had one time" is too much hyperbole even for an internet forum.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:45
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Nickelsack posted:Why not simply say "fix it/quit killing our pilots. Until such time this occurs, payments are hereby suspended." Then watch how fast that poo poo gets sorted I work in gov procurement and loving wish I could do this at least twice a day. Closest thing you can do is drop a stop work order but they still bill for what they did up to that point and my bosses get super angry that I'm loving with their future employers.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:32
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Finger Prince posted:Ok I'm on the civilian side of things, but I read these things, and equating them with "f22 is a deathtrap because of poor cabin air quality and a computer glitch it had one time" is too much hyperbole even for an internet forum. Most aircraft, getting the FMS back online is a simple pull and reset of a breaker or two. They tried that. Wouldn't come up. Had they been anywhere else other than near a tanker, they would've been lost and probably run out of fuel, unable to call for help or even know their rough bearings. I don't know if the Standby ADI came on, but frankly, that bug was a major one.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:35
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Heard a little on CBC about that crash out of Sochi; apparently the Tu-154 vanished from radar shortly after takeoff. I'm not sure how much it is worth, but Russian authorities say they are looking at pilot error or mechanical failure over terrorism at this time.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:25
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Nebakenezzer posted:Heard a little on CBC about that crash out of Sochi; apparently the Tu-154 vanished from radar shortly after takeoff. I'm not sure how much it is worth, but Russian authorities say they are looking at pilot error or mechanical failure over terrorism at this time. How long after? I seem to remember 'loss of contact shortly after take-off' being disturbingly common with Tu-130/150 variants.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:48
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CommieGIR posted:Most aircraft, getting the FMS back online is a simple pull and reset of a breaker or two. Not only resetting the cb, you now have to re-enter all your route info too. All your radio presets for your enroute airports and alternates will be gone too. Again, I don't know the capabilities of these aircraft, they may he pared down so much that the pilot has no manual tuning of radios or nav aids and relies entirely on a preloaded flight plan. Seems unlikely, but who knows with military hardware. Even if the tankers weren't nearby (which they would be on a trans Pacific journey anyway), getting a route to follow and new fuel burn calculations is just a satcom call to their flight dispatch away.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:59
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They've already found the black box, so we'll know more soon.
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Dec 27, 2016 20:59
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Finger Prince posted:Even if the tankers weren't nearby (which they would be on a trans Pacific journey anyway), getting a route to follow and new fuel burn calculations is just a satcom call to their flight dispatch away. Except their FMB wouldn't come up, and they had no coms. And they don't carry SATCOM handhelds.
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Dec 27, 2016 21:02
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CommieGIR posted:Except their FMB wouldn't come up, and they had no coms. And they don't carry SATCOM handhelds. No way of manually tuning radios? At all? Sorry but I find that hard to believe. How did they contact the tankers, Morse code with the landing lights? I could maybe see not having paper or backup charts, but that seems like an operational oversight more than anything else.
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Dec 27, 2016 21:10
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Finger Prince posted:No way of manually tuning radios? At all? Sorry but I find that hard to believe. How did they contact the tankers, Morse code with the landing lights? I could maybe see not having paper or backup charts, but that seems like an operational oversight more than anything else. Isn't there an intercom when connected for fueling?
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Dec 27, 2016 21:13
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:How long after? I seem to remember 'loss of contact shortly after take-off' being disturbingly common with Tu-130/150 variants. Couldn't find that out, but there is an unconfirmed rumor that Russia has grounded all Tu-154s pending the investigation.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:24
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That goes along well with the recent grounding of all the Sukhoi Superjets too - apparently they're finding serious issues with metal fatigue in what is effectively a brand-new aircraft. Which really isn't a huge surprise considering that there were dozens of engineers working at the Sukhoi OKB who were recently found to have fake engineering degrees...
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Dec 27, 2016 22:46
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InterJet is still flying them into DFW from Mexico so they must not have the memo yet.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:21
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The Ferret King posted:InterJet is still flying them into DFW from Mexico so they must not have the memo yet. Interjet just grounded half their fleet today, pending inspections. The other half will be grounded as the first half is released. As you can imagine this has caused chaos in their schedule for the next little while
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Dec 28, 2016 00:07
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MrChips posted:Which really isn't a huge surprise considering that there were dozens of engineers working at the Sukhoi OKB who were recently found to have fake engineering degrees... Lol what
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Dec 28, 2016 00:32
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holocaust bloopers posted:Lol what http://www.justmeans.com/blogs/are-fake-diplomas-destroying-russias-educational-and-economic-credibility "Three weeks ago, Russian television reported that more than 70 engineers working at a Komsomolsk-on-Amur airplane factory in the Khabarovsk region had obtained fake engineering degrees from a local technical college. The high-security military plant, which belongs to state-owned Sukhoi, assembles the Su-27, Su-30 and Su-35 fighter jets, as well as the much-anticipated Superjet 100 passenger plane. While the discovery of the fake degrees was not surprising, what was surprising was management's dismissive attitude to the scandal." http://diplomafraud.com/2013/01/16/academic-ghostwriting-still-going-strong-in-russia/ "In an unprecedented case of mass forgery, more than 70 workers at a high-security Sukhoi airplane factory in Russia’s Far East region were revealed in 2010 to have obtained fake engineering degrees from a local technical college. Sukhoi, however, refused to fire the would-be engineers, arguing the offense was not severe enough to justify such a measure."
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Dec 28, 2016 00:41
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BIG HEADLINE posted:http://www.justmeans.com/blogs/are-fake-diplomas-destroying-russias-educational-and-economic-credibility Jesus, and this is from 2010 
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Dec 28, 2016 01:44
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Nickelsack posted:Why not simply say "fix it/quit killing our pilots. Until such time this occurs, payments are hereby suspended." Then watch how fast that poo poo gets sorted Maybe the EULA when you turn on the plane for the first time says there's no warranty, but they clicked on "Agree" without reading it? 
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Dec 28, 2016 03:00
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Needing to forge a degree in Russia is kind of amazing; can't you just bribe/cheat your way through school in that part of the world?
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Dec 28, 2016 03:01
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Mortabis posted:Needing to forge a degree in Russia is kind of amazing; can't you just bribe/cheat your way through school in that part of the world? Even if so, forging is cheaper and faster.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:12
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Midjack posted:Even if so, forging is cheaper and faster. 
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Dec 28, 2016 11:58
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Forged degrees are stronger too, since the internal grain structure of the degree is continuous, you end up with a much stronger degree.
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Dec 28, 2016 16:08
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