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The Shortest Path posted:Those weren't even real phyrexians, we haven't seen those since... Invasion block? They weren't Yawgmoth-era Phyrexians, but those are all dead. They were Mirrans corrupted by Phyrexian Oil and then compleated, which seems to meet the definition of Phyrexian to me!
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Dec 28, 2016 21:19
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The problem with Phyrexian mana is it shatters the color pie. To make it balanced you have to do one of these things: 1) only print color pie neutral effects. Boring. 2) include non-Phyrexian colored symbols in costs alongside Phyrexian. Kludgy, unintuitive, and inelegant. Plus much worse.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:22
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Soul Glo posted:Didn't MaRo say Phyrexian mana was overpowered in a blog post this year? Pretty sure people have been saying Phyrexian mana is overpowered since we first saw the beautiful little symbol in a cirlce. Dismember, Mutagenic Growth, Birthing Pod, Gitaxian Probe, Gut Shot, Mental Misstep, Phyrexian Metamorph, Noxious Revival, Vault Skirge, it's not every day you get so many top-level cards and Modern bans from one mechanic in one set.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:24
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Soul Glo posted:Didn't MaRo say Phyrexian mana was overpowered in a blog post this year? If they came back, would we get Phyrexian mana cards like Dismember or Mutagenic Growth or would they just have some new gimmick so we wouldn't get powerful cards? If they bring Phyrexian Mana back they'll err on the side of not making free or nearly-free un-color-restricted cards. Like if they had to remake dismember now it would probably cost (B/P)(B/P)B instead of 1(B/P)(B/P), so that you can't just throw it in any color deck and run an extremely black-flavored removal spell in your WG deck. Their big mistake with Phyrexian mana was letting it completely bypass color requirements. Of course if you don't let it do that, you can't print CMC 1 phyrexian spells, but that's probably a good thing. Then again, Wizards never seems to learn that mana-cost-reduction mechanics will always bite them in the rear end. I'm waiting to see what busted card for the Affinity deck we get with Improvise.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:25
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Soul Glo posted:Didn't MaRo say Phyrexian mana was overpowered in a blog post this year? If they came back, would we get Phyrexian mana cards like Dismember or Mutagenic Growth or would they just have some new gimmick so we wouldn't get powerful cards? If you saw Phyrexian Mana again it'd probably not replace all the colored mana or it'd probably be used less on spells and more on permanents or something. They won't be making Dismember or Probe again.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:25
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Soul Glo posted:Didn't MaRo say Phyrexian mana was overpowered in a blog post this year? If they came back, would we get Phyrexian mana cards like Dismember or Mutagenic Growth or would they just have some new gimmick so we wouldn't get powerful cards? I've never heard MaRo refer directly to mechanic "power", only to the likelihood of mechanics returning. But if a mechanic isn't blatantly unfun or boring, and he says it won't come back, it's easy to draw a conclusion of why. Considering their history with making cards that get around the "you need X mana to cast a card with CMC X" guideline, I can't picture Phyrexian mana (or Infect for that matter) coming back into Standard at all.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:26
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Soul Glo posted:Didn't MaRo say Phyrexian mana was overpowered in a blog post this year? Yeah, because you can use the best ones in literally any deck. I think adding "Use this only if you control a basic land of that color" would fix the issue. Even with that they're still really good, just not quite as gross.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:27
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Someone here said this when Theros was around - i want them to bring back phyrexian mana in some form only because "devotion to Phyrexia" would be the most kickin rad templating ever.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:29
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Soul Glo posted:Didn't MaRo say Phyrexian mana was overpowered in a blog post this year? If they came back, would we get Phyrexian mana cards like Dismember or Mutagenic Growth or would they just have some new gimmick so we wouldn't get powerful cards? Probably some new gimmick. Free spells are ridiculously overpowered. Though they aren't impossible to balance, no one is crying about how Marrow Shards is destroying the meta.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:30
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Yeah, because you can use the best ones in literally any deck. I think adding "Use this only if you control a basic land of that color" would fix the issue. Even with that they're still really good, just not quite as gross. That wouldn't fix the part where Dismember makes creatures with 5 or less toughness extremely fragile for 1 mana, or that the decks with the best creature toolboxes for Pod are usually part green, or that Gitaxian Probe and Mental Misstep help blue decks perhaps more than the others. The only way to fix Phyrexian mana is to replace it with a different mechanic. Paying life instead of mana is broken. Full stop.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:30
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Nah, it can be balanced totally fine. The trick is that you have to cost it around people paying all the life and as little mana as possible, and then the phyrexian mana essentially lets you pay extra mana to avoid losing life. Something like BB(P/B): Draw 2 cards is pretty fine, for example. The problem is the cards don't look as exciting when they're not completely busted.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:05
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The problem with Phyrexian mana is it shatters the color pie. To make it balanced you have to do one of these things: I had the idea a while ago that you should need to control a land with the corresponding type in order to alt-cast the spell. It still lets you cast the spell for no/less mana but it doesn't break the color pie and it means you have to actually be playing those colors (or have the right color dual.) I used to be ok with Dismember but I'm really starting to believe that the only Phyrexian mana cards that are ok are like, Norn's Annex and Marrow Shards. I guess Vault Skirge is fine. But Noxious Revival definitely needs to go. RembrandtQEinstein posted:Yeah, because you can use the best ones in literally any deck. I think adding "Use this only if you control a basic land of that color" would fix the issue. Even with that they're still really good, just not quite as gross. Or even a basic yeah. That's probably what they'd do if it wasn't going to be in standard with typed duals.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:12
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I would much prefer a world where WotC prints cards that bites them in the rear end over a world where they do not because Magic is gonna be a lot more sterile and boring in that world
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Dec 28, 2016 22:46
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Why you hating on Noxious Revival suicidesteve
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Dec 28, 2016 22:47
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TheKingofSprings posted:Why you hating on Noxious Revival suicidesteve Because it will drive Agentsythe nuts. TheKingofSprings posted:I would much prefer a world where WotC prints cards that bites them in the rear end over a world where they do not because Magic is gonna be a lot more sterile and boring in that world Sure but eventually they're going to realize that mana reduction is inherently broken and has almost never been done without breaking something. The closest they've come is probably Convoke, which is also one of their best mechanics.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:00
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suicidesteve posted:I had the idea a while ago that you should need to control a land with the corresponding type in order to alt-cast the spell. It still lets you cast the spell for no/less mana but it doesn't break the color pie and it means you have to actually be playing those colors (or have the right color dual.) IIRC they did this with some of the Splice onto Arcane cards that had non-mana costs to prevent people just using them everywhere (Horobi's Whisper, Roar of Jukai, etc.).
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Dec 28, 2016 23:12
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suicidesteve posted:Because it will drive Agentsythe nuts. Emerge and <type> Offering are alright I think.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:13
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suicidesteve posted:I had the idea a while ago that you should need to control a land with the corresponding type in order to alt-cast the spell. It still lets you cast the spell for no/less mana but it doesn't break the color pie and it means you have to actually be playing those colors (or have the right color dual.) you forgot 
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Dec 28, 2016 23:26
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Cernunnos posted:Emerge and <type> Offering are alright I think. Emerge is great and I hope they do more things in that mold. It plays fantastically while also playing nicely with Stock Mana theory.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:35
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TheKingofSprings posted:I would much prefer a world where WotC prints cards that bites them in the rear end over a world where they do not because Magic is gonna be a lot more sterile and boring in that world This is true, but that is also not a world where they bring back Phyrexian mana for standard.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:43
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Gonna play Planar Bridge in Sealed. Hell yes.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:44
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It seems like the problem Phyrexian mana cards were all ones that became mana-free, or nearly so (Dismember), if you paid life. Birthing Pod was the only other broken one that comes to mind, but I'm gonna say it would have been busted even if you replaced the Phyrexian symbols even with boring old G; not that getting to pay 2-4 life to squeak out an earlier pod + activation wasn't a generous dollop of whipped cream on the insane-value sundae, but it was the mechanics that were problematic in the first place.
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Dec 28, 2016 23:55
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I just want to see someone play T4 Marvel into T5 Engine and get two Marvel activations in a turn. edit: meant engine not bridge duh MiddleEastBeast fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 23:59
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MiddleEastBeast posted:you forgot Nah. We can't have anything in vintage if it's blue and this kills Jace, which is in fact a blue card. Cernunnos posted:Emerge and <type> Offering are alright I think. Emerge is good, I'll give you that. It's also well-costed and requires other things to get a cost reduction. Compare that to delve where the cost is... playing the game, or Phyrexian mana where the cost is not being dead. The X Offerings I've literally never seen used.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:11
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Death Bot posted:Wish ascendancy was back in cube, watching dzyl and dzyl only do dumb things with it and fast mana and manlands was wild as hell I think that was actually the Legendary Cube when he was doing those insane drafts. I don't think Jeskai Ascendancy was ever in a regular legacy cube, but I could be wrong.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:12
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It's been a while since I've done a prerelease of a small set. How does it work? Will you get a mix of packs from Kaladesh and Aether Revolt or is it all packs of Aether Revolt?
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Dec 29, 2016 01:41
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Aranan posted:It's been a while since I've done a prerelease of a small set. How does it work? Will you get a mix of packs from Kaladesh and Aether Revolt or is it all packs of Aether Revolt? It'll probably be 4 revolt packs and 2 khaladesh packs
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Dec 29, 2016 02:17
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meanolmrcloud posted:I give it about a day before paradox engine is broken in two. Bridge doesn't trigger cards like Emrakul or Ulamog though. Since you're not casting them. What is the best thing you can use bridge to get in standard? Maybe it's OK in Tron but it's still 13 mana for the first activation... mcmagic fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 02:33
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Aranan posted:It's been a while since I've done a prerelease of a small set. How does it work? Will you get a mix of packs from Kaladesh and Aether Revolt or is it all packs of Aether Revolt? It's two packs of Kaladesh, four packs of Aether Revolt, and one date-stamped foil promo from Aether Revolt. You'll make a 40-card minimum deck and play rounds based on turn-out. For prizes, you'll get packs of Aether Revolt based on your record in the tournament.
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Dec 29, 2016 02:38
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I feel like if we were going to see a card like Planar Bridge in Tron, Ring of Three Wishes would have been a one or two of a while ago.
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Dec 29, 2016 03:13
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The Shortest Path posted:I feel like if we were going to see a card like Planar Bridge in Tron, Ring of Three Wishes would have been a one or two of a while ago. This card won't see play because it doesn't do anything to improve Tron's bad match-ups. Making your control/mid-range match-up 78% instead of 75% really isn't worth doing. See also: Eldrazi Wish in Blue Tron. You're dead against your bad match-ups before you even get to cast the card you Wished for.
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Dec 29, 2016 03:59
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I feel like if that were the only reason for a card like that, Tron's popularity wouldn't have tanked with the banning of Eye of Ugin, which did almost exactly that.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:37
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The Shortest Path posted:I feel like if that were the only reason for a card like that, Tron's popularity wouldn't have tanked with the banning of Eye of Ugin, which did almost exactly that. Tron is within in the top 5 most played modern decks, it got less popular for a minute or two but I wouldn't say it's unpopular at all. This card is still probably not playable I. Tron though.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:45
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The Shortest Path posted:I feel like if that were the only reason for a card like that, Tron's popularity wouldn't have tanked with the banning of Eye of Ugin, which did almost exactly that. This card can't really slot in like Eye though. Eye you could run one of in a land slot and then fetch out when you needed it with your pile of tutors. This one is an actual spell in your deck that you will need to run >1 of to find consistently and doesn't do anything until you untap with Tron + 1. Getting to cast a Planeswalker or Wurmcoil Engine every turn is sure gonna take over a game, but I agree with Steve that this card is atrocious in your bad matchups and games where Tron gets to spend 8 mana are usually games it was winning anyways.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:49
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Tron is within in the top 5 most played modern decks Woah when did that happen? I feel like I haven't seen it at all lately, the big three of dumb comboaggro decks have been everywhere. I assume it has a great Dredge matchup?
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Dec 29, 2016 04:49
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The Shortest Path posted:I feel like if that were the only reason for a card like that, Tron's popularity wouldn't have tanked with the banning of Eye of Ugin, which did almost exactly that. Turns out casting a turn 3 Karn is still good enough to beat control and midrange decks. Who'd have guessed. (Me. I did.)
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Dec 29, 2016 06:21
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suicidesteve posted:I had the idea a while ago that you should need to control a land with the corresponding type in order to alt-cast the spell. It still lets you cast the spell for no/less mana but it doesn't break the color pie and it means you have to actually be playing those colors (or have the right color dual.) Wizards had this same idea in mercadian masques.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:56
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Count Bleck posted:Well given they decided to not spoil the last masterwork. Why does everyone think there's another Invention? The series only has 54 cards.
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Dec 29, 2016 08:40
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The Shortest Path posted:Right, but I doubt that's worth five mana. I'm sure some people will come up with infinite combos using it (though probably nothing in standard) but it'll be much slower than decks which already do that and even those are mediocre in existing formats.
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Dec 29, 2016 13:02
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teddust posted:Jeskai Ascendancy combo was probably the best deck in Modern while Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time were legal. That said, it's currently a fringe deck and I agree that the 5 mana artifact version probably won't see a lot of play. The entire meta was UR Delver and Pod at the time.
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Dec 29, 2016 13:15
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