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Regarding the planet at the start of Prometheus: 
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Dec 29, 2016 00:23
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I really like the Engineers in Prometheus, the choreographers and actors (animators?) really nailed their body language. Even when he's fighting off the trilobite the last Engineer looks arrogant and imperious and faintly outraged that he has to deal with this poo poo. The trilobite is also loving horrible.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:27
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Toady posted:Regarding the planet at the start of Prometheus: Nice. I had been wondering if all the Iceland locations in the trailer were meant to imply the planet of Covenant was the same one from the Prometheus' opening. Also fits with the similarity between the plant spores and the particles the Engineer dissolves into. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 00:45
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Hodgepodge posted:I also love it when Lovecraft imitators throw around the term "non-Euclidian," because that term describes the geometry of such eldritch objects as the Earth, a toilet bowl, the human body, and a cup of coffee. There are a lot of people also that think Lovecraft like singlehandedly invented the concept of cosmic horror or whatever and had a super codified canonical Cthulhu mythos when a lot of contemporary pulp authors had similar concepts going on and even a lot of the monsters and monster names were shared between stories by him/Robert E. Howard/whoever and a lot of it was just "whatever Pagan god but we added or removed a letter." But Lovecraft was THE ULTIMATE goon so I understand why he gets all the credit in nerd circles. I mean he wrote in intentionally dated ways for the time to make his work seem more sophisticated, like no one on earth talked like he wrote at the time he wrote. But when I speak to a lot of people, in retrospect, I think the old fashionedness of his writing makes new readers assume that it definitively came first. The guy's letters and personal correspondences are insane and way more interesting to read than any of his fiction. Massive lectures about how when it's ____ temperature outside the ONLY appropriate thing to eat is ___ pie with ___ ice cream on it ONLY. How much he thought Dracula was a piece of poo poo, he *WALKED OUT* on Dracula because it was too stupid for him and obviously awful Hollywood poo poo but rants about how Phantom of the Opera is the true deep and most important horror work ever because it has cool makeup effects as it's important that we sympathize with monsters in fiction instead of with those filthy Chinese people. Enjoying food is for gormless losers and a waste of money as a man of true taste he subsists only on a diet of french fries and one cube of cheese per day. Like he just sounds like a completely insufferable piece of poo poo lol. I can't find the link but IIRC someone made like a "Who said it Hitler or Lovecraft" quiz that was difficult to win. I love a lot of horror stuff that was clearly influenced by his work but anything of his I've actually read just doesn't really grab me. I like the idea of sci-fi and weird monster stuff and zombie investigations and whatever a lot but Robert E. Howard's stuff holds up way better, he's way better at like hurling you into scene quickly and I appreciate getting that vividness that still has the occasional moonbeast or whatever show up. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 01:11
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Bugblatter posted:Nice. I had been wondering if all the Iceland locations in the trailer were meant to imply the planet of Covenant was the same one from the Prometheus' opening. Also fits with the similarity between the plant spores and the particles the Engineer dissolves into. For what it's worth, Covenant takes place on a different planet which is apparently the home world of the engineers. Covenant was also filmed in New Zealand, compared to Prometheus using Iceland for filming. That's a good catch by Toady however, and it will be interesting to see what the deal with that room is, since it appears that David and Walter are the only ones to occupy it.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:21
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SUNKOS posted:For what it's worth, Covenant takes place on a different planet which is apparently the home world of the engineers. Covenant was also filmed in New Zealand, compared to Prometheus using Iceland for filming. That's a good catch by Toady however, and it will be interesting to see what the deal with that room is, since it appears that David and Walter are the only ones to occupy it. You misunderstood me. I know this is taking place on the Engineers home planet, and not the planet the Prometheus lands on. I mean I'm wondering if this homeworld is also the location of the opening scene of Prometheus, and the use of Iceland for the aerial shots/background comps in Covenant (The film did have a unit in Iceland, similar to how Prometheus' aerial and background comps were created by a unit shooting in Jordan) is used to tie the appearance of the locations.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:35
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I forget was the Prometheus and/or David himself sending imagery back to earth regularly? That room might just be a hyper swank office/parlor with a huge screen.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:39
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Bugblatter posted:You misunderstood me. I know this is taking place on the Engineers home planet, and not the planet the Prometheus lands on. I mean I'm wondering if this homeworld is also the location of the opening scene of Prometheus, and the use of Iceland for the aerial shots/background comps in Covenant (The film did have a unit in Iceland, similar to how Prometheus' aerial and background comps were created by a unit shooting in Jordan) is used to tie the appearance of the locations. Oh, I see. Yeah, that's a good question actually and an interesting consideration to take into account. I've seen some people theorize that the location isn't actually real (referring to the white room in the Covenant trailer here) and is the result of some kind of interface between David & Walter, since the likelihood of a colony ship having a room like that is quite low I'd think, but all possibilities are equally interesting.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:51
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Toady posted:Regarding the planet at the start of Prometheus: Holy poo poo nothing gets passed the internet.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:52
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So that's on earth?
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Dec 29, 2016 01:55
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Tenzarin posted:So that's on earth? Unlikely?
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Dec 29, 2016 01:57
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Neo Rasa posted:I forget was the Prometheus and/or David himself sending imagery back to earth regularly? That room might just be a hyper swank office/parlor with a huge screen. General Battuta posted:I really like the Engineers in Prometheus, the choreographers and actors (animators?) really nailed their body language. Even when he's fighting off the trilobite the last Engineer looks arrogant and imperious and faintly outraged that he has to deal with this poo poo.  
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Dec 29, 2016 02:14
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The guy who claimed he saw an early screener of the movie said that scene with David at the piano in the white room is a prologue with him and Weyland, and that image on the background was really similar to the setting of the film.
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Dec 29, 2016 02:30
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Just chiming in to say I love you guys discussing this stuff, I took Aliens at face value but you guys are really going deep on this stuff. I still think Promethius was garbage though. "Ohhhhhhh there are moody God people and they have this black gooey poo poo and then Xenomorphs pop out". gently caress that, why can't they just be some kind of super animal from another planet that got there via evolution, and then the predators are a alien race who like to fight and hunt stuff.
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Dec 29, 2016 03:03
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Lol @ the people itt who missed the whole point of the soldiers being idiots in Aliens was that the Company didn't want actual good soldiers to go clean up the mess, they wanted retards without backup and without coherence in order to get them hosed up and have them retreat with an egg or someone impregnated.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:08
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Same but for Prometheus, so Weyland could demand immortality from Gods. And neither got what they wanted 
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Dec 29, 2016 04:13
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What if they weren't gods or even created the humans? Maybe they just were a bunch of aliens that liked to make maps. Their love for maps lead to their destruction. Those aliens running that die, lost their map.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:15
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Lol @ the people itt who missed the whole point of the soldiers being idiots in Aliens was that the Company didn't want actual good soldiers to go clean up the mess, they wanted retards without backup and without coherence in order to get them hosed up and have them retreat with an egg or someone impregnated. I can't tell if you're serious or mocking the similar takes on Prometheus, but fwiw, Cameron himself has posited that the reason the marines are less than professional stems from them being an arm of a corporation without much integrity or regard for the lives of their employees. They're more of a force to strong-arm or clean up messes on WY industrial colonies. He was responding to claims that his portrayal was disrespectful to the actual U.S. military, but still.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:17
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Tenzarin posted:What if they weren't gods or even created the humans? Maybe they just were a bunch of aliens that liked to make maps. Their love for maps lead to their destruction. Those aliens running that die, lost their map. I'm going with this from now on. E: black goo is just e-ink
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Dec 29, 2016 04:19
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Lol @ the people itt who missed the whole point of the soldiers being idiots in Aliens was that the Company didn't want actual good soldiers to go clean up the mess, they wanted retards without backup and without coherence in order to get them hosed up and have them retreat with an egg or someone impregnated. No they didn't. The marines were sent there with Burke in order to help him retrieve an Alien specimen. The original plan didn't involve people dying. E: https://twitter.com/AlienAnthology/status/813814214422888448 Whoa... A Deacon fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 04:29
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A Deacon posted:No they didn't. The marines were sent there with Burke in order to help him retrieve an Alien specimen. The original plan didn't involve people dying.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:04
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Lol @ the people itt who missed the whole point of the soldiers being idiots in Aliens was that the Company didn't want actual good soldiers to go clean up the mess, they wanted retards without backup and without coherence in order to get them hosed up and have them retreat with an egg or someone impregnated.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:07
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Xenomrph posted:Not even that, the Marines were sent to check on the colony since it had been out of contact for a couple of weeks. Burke's plan to secure a specimen was something he spearheaded on his own, independent of the rest of the Company. I guess I'm misremembering why they wanted Ripley to go then. Or was it just Burke that wanted her to go? E: david_a posted:The clowns that were sent managed to blow up an atmosphere processor, an installation with a substantial dollar value attached to it! That's what insurance is for!
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Dec 29, 2016 05:50
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MacheteZombie posted:I guess I'm misremembering why they wanted Ripley to go then. Or was it just Burke that wanted her to go? Ripley was along because she was the only one who had any knowledge of the Aliens.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:57
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They wanted Ripley to go because the colony was on the planet where she claimed to have picked up a parasitic lifeform that killed her crew, and the colony went dark right after the colonists were instructed to investigate her claims.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:01
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I've never really consciously thought about it before, but Aliens comes down pretty hard on the side of the Company not knowing about the signal/Alien ahead of time, otherwise somebody would have gone out to double-check on it in the 57 years since the Nostromo suspiciously vanished while investigating it. I wonder if they did mount a search party and what that would actually mean for an interstellar spaceship. After all, the Nostromo and refinery was worth 42 million in adjusted dollars (minus payload) and this is clearly an organization that values the bottom line.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:20
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david_a posted:I've never really consciously thought about it before, but Aliens comes down pretty hard on the side of the Company not knowing about the signal/Alien ahead of time, otherwise somebody would have gone out to double-check on it in the 57 years since the Nostromo suspiciously vanished while investigating it. I wonder if they did mount a search party and what that would actually mean for an interstellar spaceship. After all, the Nostromo and refinery was worth 42 million in adjusted dollars (minus payload) and this is clearly an organization that values the bottom line. Could be that whoever sent the Nostromo out 57 years ago was acting alone, just as Burke was. And once the Nostromo disappeared whoever it was covered up their involvement. The Company has a culture of the young executives being ruthless and taking risks with people's lives while not exposing the Company as a whole to liability. It's the a similar issue to what was shown in Robocop 1 and 2. Robo is the result of a younger exec trying to make a name for himself. It's still the ultimate responsibility of OCP, but it's not like the company as a whole got together and decided to kill Alex Murphy.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:26
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Lol @ the people itt who missed the whole point of the soldiers being idiots in Aliens was that the Company didn't want actual good soldiers to go clean up the mess, they wanted retards without backup and without coherence in order to get them hosed up and have them retreat with an egg or someone impregnated. Hindsight bias. LOL @ the people ITT who retroactively apply lore from subsequent installments in a series, created and written by various people. There is no such thing as canon.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:29
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SimonCat posted:Ripley was along because she was the only one who had any knowledge of the Aliens. Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:They wanted Ripley to go because the colony was on the planet where she claimed to have picked up a parasitic lifeform that killed her crew, and the colony went dark right after the colonists were instructed to investigate her claims. Thanks. I was also placing the "you're going out there to destroy them" exchange during the exec scene, implying the company could be lying, but it's just Burke and her. I also forgot the reveal where she tells Burke she knows he sent the order to investigate the coordinates of the derelict ship. Oh well, I don't take back what I said up thread even if the person I quoted got details wrong.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:48
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Bugblatter posted:I can't tell if you're serious or mocking the similar takes on Prometheus, but fwiw, Cameron himself has posited that the reason the marines are less than professional stems from them being an arm of a corporation without much integrity or regard for the lives of their employees. They're more of a force to strong-arm or clean up messes on WY industrial colonies. So they're just like the American Military?
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Dec 29, 2016 09:42
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What I found utterly unbelievable about Aliens was that, for an expensive expedition with a really big military spaceship with room for multiple squads with several dropships, not only did they only sent one squad, but that the ranking officer was a green lieutenant. And they left nobody on the Sulaco. Presumably on the say-so of a junior exec. Not buying it at all. That ship would be stuffed to the rafters with officers, loss adjusters, and execs who were playing some game or another. I know Cameron was aiming for the lost patrol, but there is zero chance, knowing anything about corporations and the military, that the lost patrol would have gone there solo.
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Dec 29, 2016 13:43
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Weyland-Yutani doesn't care.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:05
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I always thought it was lame that after Aliens the Aliens, Predator and everything in between franchises just couldn't get away from the idea that Weyland-Yutani was a completely, wilfully evil apocalypse cult resident evil style facade rather than just an incompetent too big to fail corporation which bred people like Burke. I also always preferred the idea that Ash maybe has vague guidelines that tell him that the crew is expendable, etc. but mostly just wants the alien to live because logically, he's decided that it's better, and worth more, than the crew themselves.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:09
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Dan Didio posted:I always thought it was lame that after Aliens the Aliens, Predator and everything in between franchises just couldn't get away from the idea that Weyland-Yutani was a completely, wilfully evil apocalypse cult resident evil style facade rather than just an incompetent too big to fail corporation which bred people like Burke. I don't know that WY is really ever portrayed as an Umbrella like dooms day cult? In Prometheus it's a tech company that has a nutty CEO using his own wealth to grasp at straws to stay alive, in Aliens it's just Burke acting on his own, in Alien 3 their intentions are ambiguous, they are not present in Resurrection, in AvP Wayland is straight up a good person, and in AvP:R Yutani buys the recovered Predator tech but is otherwise uninvolved. The original film is the closest we get to the company being intentionally evil with the crew expandable/secret android, and the details on where those decisions came from are vague. As was said before, it could just be another Burke. Really, the idea that the company is an entity so massive and soullessly driven by profit that it becomes an environment where greed-driven ethics violations and gross incompetence can occur unchecked is pretty strongly supported by the entire franchise. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 14:48
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That's sort of what I'm saying. I'm referring more to the garbage comics and stuff, the movies had a pretty good idea, aside from like, Alien 3, kind of, of how a place like Weyland-Yutani could actually exist. The comics always seemed to turn that up to eleven and be like, "see? The corporation is EVIL." like chasing the Alien through a Scooby Doo style corridor to use for EXPERIMENTS was all they did and all they cared about. There was also a bunch with like super greedy industrialists and CEOs and solitary figures that basically did the same thing. Extended Universes are real bad.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:51
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Alien: Resurrection probably would have been better if the kooky Gediman dude was the guy they were stuck with who kept trying to gently caress them over rather than Wren, because Wren belongs in one of those dumbass comics.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:52
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Dan Didio posted:Alien: Resurrection probably would have been better if the kooky Gediman dude was the guy they were stuck with who kept trying to gently caress them over rather than Wren, because Wren belongs in one of those dumbass comics. Resurrection would have been better if it had not been made.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:56
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Dan Didio posted:Weyland-Yutani was [...] just an incompetent too big to fail corporation which bred people like Burke. That's not even a preference; that's objectively what happens in the films. As WENTZ WAGON NUI joked, fans approach Aliens as altogether apsychological. Ripley of course 'deals with her trauma', but the film is otherwise taken as 100% rational. Trauma is, in fact, taken as a threat to this rationality. Ripley's arc is celebrated as therapeutic: to stop having these apocalyptic nightmares, and 'wake up' into the rational, pragmatic, liberal-utopian Better World. Hudson (for example) is perceived as a rational actor who dies because the enemy is stronger. That Hudson dies for the same reason Milburn does - that he, on some level, wanted this to happen - is unfathomable. But that is the clearest explanation for why Hudson travels down to this planet without a mask, bragging about his invulnerability. He fantasizes about escaping the 'game' - complaining about the Bug Hunt like it's Pac-Man. No wonder he voices disdain for Gorman's simulated experience. People complain that Charlie takes his helmet off, but Hudson never even puts one on - for the same reason. He doesn't want this glass screen separating him from the world.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:As WENTZ WAGON NUI joked, fans approach Aliens as altogether apsychological. Ripley of course 'deals with her trauma', but the film is otherwise taken as 100% rational. Trauma is, in fact, taken as a threat to this rationality. Ripley's arc is celebrated as therapeutic: to stop having these apocalyptic nightmares, and 'wake up' into the rational, pragmatic, liberal-utopian Better World. The movie, embodied in Burke who suggests this path to Ripley in order to get her on board, prompts us to make that interpretation, but it also hints at it being bullshit by revealing that Burke is. It's "dealing with trauma" in the way people with PTSD or self-harmers may try to deal with trauma: by seeking it out and re-enacting it. thotsky fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 16:15
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Neo Rasa posted:There are a lot of people also that think Lovecraft like singlehandedly invented the concept of cosmic horror or whatever and had a super codified canonical Cthulhu mythos when a lot of contemporary pulp authors had similar concepts going on and even a lot of the monsters and monster names were shared between stories by him/Robert E. Howard/whoever and a lot of it was just "whatever Pagan god but we added or removed a letter." But Lovecraft was THE ULTIMATE goon so I understand why he gets all the credit in nerd circles. I mean he wrote in intentionally dated ways for the time to make his work seem more sophisticated, like no one on earth talked like he wrote at the time he wrote. But when I speak to a lot of people, in retrospect, I think the old fashionedness of his writing makes new readers assume that it definitively came first. Didn't he write about black people and eggs or some such poo poo? It's pretty hysterical. EDIT: Holy poo poo quote:When, long ago, the gods created Earth https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Creation_of_Niggers Uh, that's some racism right there. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 16:24
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