|
Stacks posted:Nah, Yoda drops some sanguine truth bombs on Luke on Dagobah. This might jar with whatever is in the PT but gently caress the PT. Star Wars was better off without it. Are you playing obtuse or just ignorant of all the bullshit Obiwan was throwing at Luke in A New Hope? "A certain point of view" is the classic backtrack of a lie. Yoda's truth bomb "you must kill vader" is also ultimately a lie that Luke must deconstruct on his own.
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 13:17 |
|
|
I said come in! posted:But doesn't Skynet still go online anyways in another form? Terminator is about the robots knowing the future and trying to change it. They lose to the human resistance. Maybe I haven't seen T2 in a while, but I'm pretty sure than the humans of the future are trying to safeguard the past in order to... safeguard the future.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Dooku seems like he would've fit right in with the Rebellion, considering their only on screen goal appears to be restoring the nobility to their titles and ending the Empire's (racist) meritocracy. There's a reason the Separatist ships in Episode III looked like the cargo ships from Empire Strikes Back. And it's the satire at the end of A New Hope with the Triumph of the Will sequence. Hell, it's a source of tension in Rogue One with aristocrats who want to hold Senate hearings on the Death Star versus the ground-level insurgents who believe in blowing the fuckers up. Mecha Gojira fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Dec 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
My assumption is that most Jedi who went up against Grievous received precognitive flashes to the effect of "one blade is going to come down through my head, and a second blade is going to come sideways through my waist, and a third blade is going to be whirling behind me to block off my escape, and the fourth blade will be ready to parry me" and respond to those flashes with "well poo poo."
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 22:58
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Dooku seems like he would've fit right in with the Rebellion, considering their only on screen goal appears to be restoring the nobility to their titles and ending the Empire's (racist) meritocracy. Here it is, he ices Shak-Ti https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgkkHjGrCmE And yeah, I always thought Dooku would've been a leader in the Rebellion if he had hung on long enough to live through Sheev becoming Emperor (he never would have, of course, because he was too naive to see that Sheev was gonna off him for Anakin at a moment's notice). The Resistance for all intents and purposes becomes the Rebellion. I would've loved to see a story explored where the first Rebellion fleets and stuff were made up of old CIS ships and droids
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:00
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:My assumption is that most Jedi who went up against Grievous received precognitive flashes to the effect of "one blade is going to come down through my head, and a second blade is going to come sideways through my waist, and a third blade is going to be whirling behind me to block off my escape, and the fourth blade will be ready to parry me" and respond to those flashes with "well poo poo." "Using my future-reading powers, they seem to be telling me I should have used my future-reading powers five seconds ago, oops"
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:Here it is, he ices Shak-Ti I can see why they got rid of that scene. Pretty dark execution. My sound was muted.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:07
|
|
|
How many times has Shak-Ti been killed in deleted scenes and games now? And with her 'canon' death in Force Unleashed now legend, she probably alive yet again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:11
|
|
|
They are, after all, the Rebel Alliance. Multiple groups with different priorities, some of which we actually see in Rogue One. A few remnants of the Separatists who want to be allowed to run an exotic and maybe lovely form of government in their own systems without interference, a few thwarted republican reformers looking for a second shot, some real radicals of varying degrees of violence - anybody who thinks the Empire is their first enemy. We see divisions in them based on how to conduct the war, and later based on whether resistance is futile.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:11
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:I can see why they got rid of that scene. Pretty dark execution. My sound was muted. Yeah, and almost all of the dialogue is mirrored in the end product when they get to the bridge anyhow
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:12
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:They are, after all, the Rebel Alliance. Multiple groups with different priorities, some of which we actually see in Rogue One. A few remnants of the Separatists who want to be allowed to run an exotic and maybe lovely form of government in their own systems without interference, a few thwarted republican reformers looking for a second shot, some real radicals of varying degrees of violence - anybody who thinks the Empire is their first enemy. We see divisions in them based on how to conduct the war, and later based on whether resistance is futile. Out of curiousity about what the new EU has to say about the remnants of the CIS, I checked out Wookieepedia. Apparently Tarkin and our new friend Krennec used the existence and continued fighting of CIS holdouts as evidence of the need for the death star. Apparently in the R1 prequel book 'Catalyst', this exchange takes place 
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
I think you guys are misunderstanding the Force on a fundamental level. Lucas talked openly about how Zen Buddhism and Daoism influenced him. So, asking questions like "are droids alive?" and "is Star Wars pantheistic?" misses the point entirely. The distinctions we create between life and non-life, between god and non-god is an artificial process created first by overstanding and then reinforced through understanding. We have mystics in this world that live to be 300, that can bend things with their mind because they can transcend the false dualities we create. What George Lucas called "The Force" is currently understood by scientists to be "orgone energy". It's real and exists in this world. The fantastic parts of Star Wars are the laser swords, space ships, hyperdrives, etc. but those are all just window dressing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:since when in fiction has being able to see the future ever translated to being able to prevent it?) Back to the future.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:27
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Leto II prevents the death of humanity by foreseeing it I guess. Somewhat ironically, he prevents the death of humanity by not being able to foresee it. But that's for a different thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:27
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I like the idea that the Death Star is sentient but incredibly lazy so the people have to shoot the giant laser themselves. In the expanded Universe the second death star is controlled by IG88's program, uploaded to it by hundreds of copies of itself in a gambit to take over the galaxy quote:Destruction over Endor: Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
Remember when Star Scream took over Unicron's head and tried to make Cybertron into his new body? That was cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:41
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:I think you guys are misunderstanding the Force on a fundamental level. Lucas talked openly about how Zen Buddhism and Daoism influenced him. So, asking questions like "are droids alive?" and "is Star Wars pantheistic?" misses the point entirely. The distinctions we create between life and non-life, between god and non-god is an artificial process created first by overstanding and then reinforced through understanding. Faith can move mountains and the ability to destroy planets is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2016 23:41
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:I think you guys are misunderstanding the Force on a fundamental level. Lucas talked openly about how Zen Buddhism and Daoism influenced him. So, asking questions like "are droids alive?" and "is Star Wars pantheistic?" misses the point entirely. The distinctions we create between life and non-life, between god and non-god is an artificial process created first by overstanding and then reinforced through understanding. No idea where you're going for with orgone energy/a crazy pseudoscientific concept invented by crazy sex magician Wilhelm Reich.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Argh I'm stupid, I meant panpsychist, not pantheistic. Because orgone is real and not fantasy, like how the VVitch was a historical reenactment because Lucifer is also real.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Basically I understand why Nolan spends one hour of every movie doing basic exposition . Yeah having recently watched The Prestige, Nolan doesn't hesitate to treat his audience like total morons and explain absolutely everything at stultifying length. This isn't limited to the intricate airport thriller plots, it extends to characters explaining themes and motifs out loud and repeatedly. Frankly it makes his restraint in The Dark Knight seem remarkable in context - he never once has someone explicitly call out Alfred's interpretation of his own bandit story as obvious bullshit, or Joker's claim to not have a plan as the same. So of course, Alfred's bullshit was widely accepted as a rubric to understand the Joker's character and the themes of the movie. I said come in! posted:I couldn't finish Genesis :/ but I liked Terminator Salvation and I should be shamed. It's an interesting and decent movie that's also pretty sloppy and clearly cobbled together from some pretty divergent rewrites and edits. Guess who else REALLY likes it...(not me. It's SMG) Mecha Gojira posted:That is one of the more interesting takes on Qui Gon too. So Jedi he chafes under the institution and how it ties back to Dooku's disillusionment and eventual fall. He has some pointed similarities to Crassus in Kubrick's Spartacus. Shbobdb posted:What George Lucas called "The Force" is currently understood by scientists to be "orgone energy". It's real and exists in this world. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Are people doing that thing where you quote something crazy from another site and forget to say its a quote?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
Vegg220 posted:Grievous as a Jedi killing badass is something that only exists in the cartoons. In the film he runs away from fights and jobs to one Jedi who was never presented as uniquely skilled at fighting. The effects supervisor also explains that GG loses his extra arms almost instantly because they couldn't (be bothered to) figure out how to animate a fight where Obi Wan can realistically not get immediately owned They should have tried harder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeuZz6J5tvc The Clone Wars series really knew how to handle all the good stuff from the prequels.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
"explicitly call out Alfred's interpretation of his own bandit story as obvious bullshit," What was this. I forgot it due to lust for Bane.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Stacks posted:Nah, Yoda drops some sanguine truth bombs on Luke on Dagobah. This might jar with whatever is in the PT but gently caress the PT. Star Wars was better off without it. Yeah it's pretty much exactly the opposite until the prequels, which is my problem with the prequels. "A certain point of view," while frustrating (and religious, ugh!) does actually teach a spiritual lesson with symbolic terminology. When someone becomes evil or good, they effectively become a new person, and within each person, there is the potential for their good or evil side to overrule the other. Christian baptism imagery, which actually appears frequently in Star Wars, is about laying down your old self in the grave, and then resurrecting as someone new. "Born again." Vader is a reversal of this, someone trapped in living death because his evil side "murdered" his good side. Without knowledge of this duality in the first place, Luke wouldn't have the faith to redeem Vader. "I can feel the good in you - the conflict." The only thing Obi Wan and Yoda jump the gun on, for dramatic purposes, is the idea that Vader can come back again. It was a very real possibility that he wouldn't, which makes it all the sweeter when he does.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
euphronius posted:"explicitly call out Alfred's interpretation of his own bandit story as obvious bullshit," The "some men just want to watch the world burn" speech about the bandit raiding caravans and discarding the loot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
I want to know SMG's interpretation of Saw Gerrera's telepathic mind reading alien pet. It's the only thing in the movie that seems truly extraneous at first glance.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:43
|
|
|
euphronius posted:"explicitly call out Alfred's interpretation of his own bandit story as obvious bullshit," Alfred was a colonial soldier in Myanmar apparently, and some "bandit" was loving poo poo up and stealing treasure from the Brits and their stooges. They just can't catch this guy cause he's a total ghost and no one ever sells him stuff in exchange for all his treasure (they swear, really) and no one has seen him ever, definitely. Then they find a little kid playing with a big jewel and conclude the guy is just tossing the treasure in the woods because "“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” So they burn down the forest he's hiding in to drive him out and kill him. Alfred, obviously, can't imagine that the "bandit" (anti imperialist insurgent) is giving the money away to poor kids and no one will turn him in because they like him. He can't conceive of a person who isn't motivated by a "logical" desire for money, and who can't be brought to the table and bribed into becoming a stooge for the British Empire. That this person might have ideological and ethical motivations never occurs to him - he must be a crazy nihilist who just totally does stuff for no reason but to "watch the world burn." But he's the one who burns down the forest. edit: as for that all being accepted uncritically, see the interpretation in the Batman Wiki, an unfortunately real thing. DeimosRising fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:Argh I'm stupid, I meant panpsychist, not pantheistic. What is the difference between thought and no-thought? "Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together." If everything is alive (imbued with orgonic energy) that explains how people can move rocks with their minds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:54
|
|
|
Soggy Cereal posted:I want to know SMG's interpretation of Saw Gerrera's telepathic mind reading alien pet. It's the only thing in the movie that seems truly extraneous at first glance. Saw is visually and thematically linked to Darth Vader, with his robot appendages, heavy armor, and breathing apparatus. The telepathic alien is his version of the torture droid and Kylo Ren's face touching. Edit: Basically, Saw is in part a dude who will torture people because he can't trust them. It's a bad thing. Mecha Gojira fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 00:54
|
|
|
Stacks posted:Nah, Yoda drops some sanguine truth bombs on Luke on Dagobah. This might jar with whatever is in the PT but gently caress the PT. Star Wars was better off without it. The Force is strong with this one. ruddiger posted:Yoda's truth bomb "you must kill vader" is also ultimately a lie that Luke must deconstruct on his own. When the gently caress did Yoda say "you must kill vader"?????
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
Mecha Gojira posted:Saw is visually and thematically linked to Darth Vader, with his robot appendages, heavy armor, and breathing apparatus. The telepathic alien is his version of the torture droid and Kylo Ren's face touching. Yeah I got that, but I want the twist. I don't want it to just be "the Rebels are just as bad as the Empire!!!" because that would be disappointing, and it would really only be these specific rebels. Also from most people's point of view, it's silly to give Saw so much characterization only for him to die a couple scenes later. Why so much time exploring who he is? The only thing I can think of is that it develops Jyn's character by extension, by showing her adopted dad. Only, it never pays off for her either. It seems to fit better with the removed subplot from the trailers where she is tempted somehow. Perhaps something thematic about pursuing the truth? I just remember SMG said somewhere that if a scene in a movie doesn't seem to contribute to the plot, it's there for imagery and thematic purposes. That stuck with me and I thought it applied here, but I'm not quite sure how.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:22
|
|
|
gfarrell80 posted:When the gently caress did Yoda say "you must kill vader"????? Confront him you must. I can't kill him!!! Then you have already failed, you have or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:43
|
|
|
DeimosRising posted:Alfred was a colonial soldier in Myanmar apparently, and some "bandit" was loving poo poo up and stealing treasure from the Brits and their stooges. They just can't catch this guy cause he's a total ghost and no one ever sells him stuff in exchange for all his treasure (they swear, really) and no one has seen him ever, definitely. Then they find a little kid playing with a big jewel and conclude the guy is just tossing the treasure in the woods because "“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” So they burn down the forest he's hiding in to drive him out and kill him. THanks mate. THis explains why in Intersteller people literally point to a black board to explain equations and the evil guy is called Dr. Man.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:They should have tried harder. I don't know, I mean the Clone Wars duel between four saber Grevious and Kenobi has essentially the same beats as the one from RotS. Kenobi even flips over Grevious in the same way he does in the movie. The only major difference is that in RotS, Kenobi actually takes steps to end Grevious's ability to fight agaisnt him with four sabers by slicing his hands off at the wrists. Grevious even flees almost in exactly the same way in both. Kenobi uses the force to fling Grevious back and then Grevious goes into critter mode and skitters away.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:48
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:It's cool how transparently your issue with the prequels is really that the Jedi weren't epic and badass enough. So just the idea that this robot could possibly take down multiple Jedi is offensive and impossible, even if the only way around it is to pretend that all his words are lies and actually he just scavenges old battlefields or something. No, that is in no way my problem with the prequels. I am simply pointing out that GG as a scary Jedi killer isn't something we see in the film. Him having a bunch of lightsabers is in contradiction with how comical and nonthreatening he is, especially when compared to how he appears in media created by people who are more competent at making villains than prequel era George Lucas, such as the dude from The Powerpuff Girls
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
You can do different things in animation than with actors.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:49
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Confront him you must. Obi wan says that. Or, no? My memory is bad sorry.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
Vegg220 posted:No, that is in no way my problem with the prequels. I am simply pointing out that GG as a scary Jedi killer isn't something we see in the film. Him having a bunch of lightsabers is in contradiction with how comical and nonthreatening he is, especially when compared to how he appears in media created by people who are more competent at making villains than prequel era George Lucas, such as the dude from The Powerpuff Girls It totally is and you just wish deep down that the tragic school shooter was cool and witty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Confront him you must. To be clear: quote:LUKE It was Obi-Wan who said something that might be interpreted as 'kill vader', but didn't say it: quote:BEN
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 13:17 |
|
|
I just watched The Force Awakens and Harrison Ford says "Falcon" and "Fulcon" in the same scene like 1 minute apart. He's just loving with us I guess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 01:58
|
|
