|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Shoreline in general definitely seem like a shady bunch based on the incidental dialogue of all the Shoreline goons. Yeah I'm not saying Nadine is a saint or anything (I mean when's the last time a PMC in a video game has ever not been shady?) but Uncharted 4 has two primary antagonists, one of which is a slimy douchbag with a punchable face that loves monologuing at you at gunpoint and the other doesn't really give a poo poo about any of this and just wants her payday. Like I dunno, maybe Nadine doesn't get a "satisfying payoff" or whatever, especially after that last scene where she nearly gets shot because Rafe won't stop antagonizing a wound-up Sam, maybe she decides that Rafe is actually a colossal dickhead and pulls out, maybe she teams up with the brothers Drake in the final hour. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Uncharted to have one antagonist who says "you know what, this poo poo is more trouble than it's worth" and punches out before they get sucked into a sand whirlpool or left holding a live grenade. Grapplejack posted:She's also been the main force behind all of your gunfights / goons and has been put in that position by the story. She's the secondary villain and having her walk away from this game would be ridiculous. Yeah, but again, it's just business. There's no real personal stake there, Drake gets shot at by goons all the time.
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 18:25 |
|
|
Felinoid posted:I am suddenly much less interested in the plot after that cutscene. Cliche brother betrayal, Sam gets shot again in a maybe-lethal way, and the possibility of a three-way tug of war is thrown out like old milk. I would actually be completely okay if ep20 was just Nate stealing a boat and going home to try to patch things up with Elena. Let Rafe comb that island for years for the treasure, let Sam be Schroedinger's brother again, just go home and be happy you're not dealing with this poo poo anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:14
|
|
|
As far as Alcazar goes it would honestly have been kind of bad writing for him to swoop into the third act all at once after being a non-factor for pretty much the entire game, not even a threatening phone call or a visit from some goons or anything along the way, just Sam constantly going "remember I'm doing this to pay Alcazar," so I kind of figured there was going to be some sort of bait-and-switch going on there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:19
|
|
|
I really like how some of the Libertalian art pieces still evoke the pirate life, like the hall of figurehead angels in the treasury.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:21
|
|
|
Welp, Rafe and some 2000 more of his goons are not living through this game now. Why did he even bother trying to shoot the guy who'd much rather not be here anyway?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:22
|
|
|
C.M. Kruger posted:Sam's plan also seems to have banked on Nate and Sully having not read the news in the past six months. Pretty sure "Infamous Panamanian drug lord dies in gun battle" is going to warrant at least a couple paragraphs in the "AP In Brief" section. They couldn't even do a quick five second google? Though it does properly answer a question I asked a month ago about why Nate didn't bring his brother home to meet his incredibly smart journalist wife. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:Related to the Honeys podcast, is there any theater (dramatic, not cinema) that isn't haunted by a worker who died during construction? My high school theater had one (I saw it once while closing up) and I've run into similar stories for four other places. What does ghosts looks like?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:Sam never really betrayed Nate, I can relate because if I was on a quest to find lost Pirate treasure I rather trick my younger brother into dropping everything to help me rather than work with the king of all douchebags who is directly responsible for making me stay 13 years in a shithole prison. It's a bit ambiguous as to what extent Sam "betrayed" Nate. It seems that while Rafe initially hired him out of prison to find the treasure, he let his obsession with the treasure get ahead of him and went off the rails by seeking out his brother and Sully. I think all of Rafe's attempts to kill him were legitimate attempts after Sam went rogue and started playing for himself instead of just helping Rafe find it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:53
|
|
|
Grapplejack posted:She's also been the main force behind all of your gunfights / goons and has been put in that position by the story. She's the secondary villain and having her walk away from this game would be ridiculous. I imagine that they were keeping her as the focus for Rafe to swing in just now and be a turboasshole. Plus, you know, Rafe's right. They're all thieves. Two pairs of thieves, in fact. With a running theme of "one of them being a turboasshole and the other being penitent/saved" in the narrative.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:56
|
|
|
Grizzwold posted:Welp, Rafe and some 2000 more of his goons are not living through this game now. Why did he even bother trying to shoot the guy who'd much rather not be here anyway? It's about the stupidest thing he could do, too. Hostage? Hostage would be good. It'd be leverage, which he obviously needs to keep Sam in line since the guy betrayed him once already. Killing Nate is anti leverage. You know what Machiavelli said? To be feared is better than to be loved, but you must above all things avoid being hated. Don't put a man in a position where he'd cut off his own nose to spite your face. Rafe just made things so that Sam knows he's getting murdered the second he's out of use, and has his beloved baby brother dead at Rafe's hands. That is a recipe for a man to walk straight into traps if it means that the other bastard goes down too. Of course, keep Sam as a hostage and apologize to Nate for the misunderstanding, ask him to help? That's probably the best move. But no. We need stupid drama. As for Nadine, she's more pragmatic than Rafe, but she hasn't had any "good" moments either. She got a perfect opportunity, too, with Nate saving her life and all, but she just wants to rush things instead of caring that the guy who just put his life on the line to save hers might get shot. There's no indication she's anything more than a scumbag merc. More Desperado than Maverick, if you follow my meaning. Her getting out alive isn't bad, but it feels like, at minimum, she should end with a Tuco moment, with Nate and Sam conclusively getting a win over her, even if she gets what she wants. Finally, the unreliable narrator bit doesn't feel fair. We played it, we saw the events go down, same as anywhere else in the game, but now THIS bit doesn't count. If Sam had been narrating it throughout, (Like in Call of Juarez: Gunslinger) that'd be one thing, but the bit we played doesn't map to anything in the story, unless Sam's storytelling style is really weird and pedantic. "And then the next guard I killed had fifteen bullets in his gun when I picked it up off the ground..." Shame. I was curious where things were going to go, but now... much less invested.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:What does ghosts looks like? In my case, like something person-sized falling from the catwalks to the stage in my peripheral vision.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 04:58
|
|
|
chitoryu12 posted:It's a bit ambiguous as to what extent Sam "betrayed" Nate. It seems that while Rafe initially hired him out of prison to find the treasure, he let his obsession with the treasure get ahead of him and went off the rails by seeking out his brother and Sully. I think all of Rafe's attempts to kill him were legitimate attempts after Sam went rogue and started playing for himself instead of just helping Rafe find it. I think Nate would probably have balked a bit more if Sam had come up to him and been like "yeah, so that rear end in a top hat Rafe sprung me from the prison I was secretly alive in, and now I want you to uproot your life to help me steal the treasure he wants first because I totally deserve it more than he does." Making up a big story about how he's gonna be killed by a ruthless drug dealer if we don't find that secret pirate treasure would be a lovely thing to do even if it didn't result in Nate loving up his marriage and being pursued by an explosion-happy PMC. chiasaur11 posted:Of course, keep Sam as a hostage and apologize to Nate for the misunderstanding, ask him to help? That's probably the best move. But no. We need stupid drama. Rafe is a dumb rear end in a top hat, the game made that clear with his little phonecall monologue earlier. Hell, the game made that clear during his introduction during the prison flashback when he fuckin kills that greedy guard and sets off the whole chase that leads to Sam "dying" in the first place. The one thing you can't accuse Uncharted 4 of is having Rafe's dumb assholishness come out of nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:03
|
|
|
Nadine's acceptance of this whole thing is certainly wearing thin. She's a warlord for hire, this treasure hunting isn't her scene to begin with and she certainly didn't sign up for competition that keeps beating her guys and costing her reputation and resources. We got that frustration in her mid fight rant and then at Rafe after almost getting shot. I think only the fact that they seem to be really close to a massive payday and the sunk costs are keeping her here. She's a lot like the crew of old expedition that died out here, except circumstances are less hopeless and she's way harder to bump off. I'll be surprised if she lives, but I won't be if she and/or Rafe betray each other in the Disney Atlantis "nothing personal" style. I do like how they handled this second fight with her, though. She's still a match for the two of them, which fits for the active warlord vs athletic history buffs thing, but having to split her focus gives a lot more openings that the brothers can and do exploit, even if she closes some of those openings before they can capitalize on them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:03
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Shame. I was curious where things were going to go, but now... much less invested. I'm sorry the fiction was extra fictional this time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:22
|
|
|
General Ironicus posted:I'm sorry the fiction was extra fictional this time. I don't understand the dummies in this thread that need more motivation than PIRATE TREASURE which is objectively the coolest goal in the entire Uncharted series.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:37
|
|
|
Turns out the pirate treasure is long gone because Avery hosed off with it and was never seen again. The big treasure chest/One Piece is just a note about how the real treasure is the friends you make along the way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
The real treasure is all this amazing architecture that Shoreline is just blowing the gently caress up to try and kill the brothers Drake, like goddamn lady have a little respect here, do you know how hard it must have been shipping in all the materials to build all these elaborate marble buildings on an island in the middle of nowhere? The idea Sam keeps floating that Avery blew all the treasure on increasingly elaborate infrastructure seems more and more plausible with each passing setpiece.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
Also props to Chip for steering Ironicus away when he started wondering why Sam was being nonchalant/not panicing about the treasure possibly being long gone and having nothing to pay off Alcazar at the treasury
SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 05:59
|
|
|
General Ironicus posted:I'm sorry the fiction was extra fictional this time. Wait. This wasn't an interactive documentary? I don't know what to believe any more. Does infamous treasure hunter Nathan Drake even have a brother, or did they make that up for this game too?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 06:13
|
|
|
I agree that Nadine's invincibility and general inactivity in the conversations is pretty annoying. Where I thought the game was going to go is "hey, gently caress this guy, you're a smart lady and are in this for the money, join us and we'll share the treasure with you" and then Nadine becomes a Friend To The Drakes and thus actually plot-invincible like Sully Elena et al. Y'know, play to her interests in a last ditch attempt to stop getting chucked out of windows by her. Maybe not now that the brothers Drake have killed a lot of her people, but earlier on perhaps. But it's obvious they're not going that direction and imo the story is less interesting with her stuck as a generic bad guy.
CJacobs fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 06:20
|
|
|
Great update, even IF you did post it RIGHT BEFORE I HAD TO LEAVE FOR WORK. I am consoled, knowing the dedication of Chip and Ironicus, that we wouldn't get up to a major cliffhanger and have the update be The Last of Those.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
I think it's okay that Nadine herself is a badder rear end than Nate and Sam combined because it's happened all of twice, and honestly the second go round wasn't even that bad because you could argue that Nate and Sam did actually sort of come out on top of that exchange at least until other people with guns showed up. If the game was constantly shoving it in your face and having you get beat up by her every time you rounded a corner it would be a lot more aggravating but it's also pretty clear that the Drakes are just wrecking the poo poo out of her personal army and it's really pissing her off, probably more than beating her in a fistfight would. It would probably have been better for both her and Rafe to have more active screentime but it seems like they really wanted this to be a somewhat more, for lack of a better word, "introspective" story with more focus on Nate and Sam than the supporting cast. Like I'm gonna be honest, so far the story's biggest failing is simply that Elana has been so criminally underused. She's there to be part of Drake's incongruously amusing normal suburban life, then she shows up to call him out for being a big dumb idiot, and then ???????????
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 06:48
|
|
|
I am fine with Nadine being a badder rear end than everyone, I think what I'm not fine with is that that's like her entire character and because of that she's about as shallow as a puddle. edit: Like, even Sully, the guy whose whole gimmick for 4 games now has been "is dirty old man, friend and caper buddy to nathan drake" now has more depth than her what with him showing how much he really cares for the guy and his dang marriage. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 06:52
|
|
|
To be fair though, Sully has had four games to get that way. I don't think any antagonist in Uncharted has ever been especially deep.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 07:02
|
|
|
AT the end, Sully will burst through some floorboards and have a Jackie Chan style fight seen with Nadine where he slips a mop bucket on her head and then trips her with a rake.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 07:07
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:To be fair though, Sully has had four games to get that way. I don't think any antagonist in Uncharted has ever been especially deep.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 07:29
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:To be fair though, Sully has had four games to get that way. I don't think any antagonist in Uncharted has ever been especially deep. That's what I'm saying though. I'm not saying his character has developed any deeper, in fact the opposite. He's been the exact same for 4 games now, he's the most shallow character of all of em as much as I like him. And his character is still just as deep as Nadine's, who they have super deep potential for that they're not capitalizing on for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 07:32
|
|
|
So how's Nate going to beat The Sorrow without a revival pill?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 09:09
|
|
|
Gorilla Salad posted:Though it does properly answer a question I asked a month ago about why Nate didn't bring his brother home to meet his incredibly smart journalist wife. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, so I went back and rewatched the cutscene where Elena confronts the guys about being dumbasses. Interestingly, Nate phrases it as "the guy who broke him out of jail wants a lot of money", so he didn't drop Alcazar's name into the mix for Elena to go "wait, the dead guy?" But yeah, with this twist 90% of the plot could have been resolved by Nate just telling his wife the truth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 10:33
|
|
|
Josuke Higashikata posted:A needless relic of the past that is causing a lot more aggro than it warrants? yeh kinda Bit of a late reply, but as someone who lives way closer to Russia than anyone should, gently caress you, mate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 12:00
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Shoreline in general definitely seem like a shady bunch based on the incidental dialogue of all the Shoreline goons. When has a PMC* ever not been shady? *In a video game
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 13:46
|
|
|
"These guys don't kill anyone in cold blood, it's just not their style" Hmm... Nate would be totally dead from that fall at the end too, if the cliff didn't do his neck in, the water would drown him. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 14:04
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:I agree that Nadine's invincibility and general inactivity in the conversations is pretty annoying. Where I thought the game was going to go is "hey, gently caress this guy, you're a smart lady and are in this for the money, join us and we'll share the treasure with you" and then Nadine becomes a Friend To The Drakes and thus actually plot-invincible like Sully Elena et al. Y'know, play to her interests in a last ditch attempt to stop getting chucked out of windows by her. Maybe not now that the brothers Drake have killed a lot of her people, but earlier on perhaps. But it's obvious they're not going that direction and imo the story is less interesting with her stuck as a generic bad guy. Uh, didn't you watch the video? The reason for why she won't team up with the Drakes even at the start of the game was revealed just then.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 14:05
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:When has a PMC* ever not been shady? Do you really need that qualifier? Thorough history mercenaries have always been shady. The only counterexample would be Japan where they somehow managed to rewrite history to show them in a better light. What I'm saying is, gently caress samurais!
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 14:22
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:Do you really need that qualifier? Thorough history mercenaries have always been shady. The only counterexample would be Japan where they somehow managed to rewrite history to show them in a better light. I try to avoid potentially talking out my rear end about things I don't know anything about and real-life PMCs are one of those things.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 14:47
|
|
|
All I know about PMCs, I learned from Metal Gear Solid. That's a reliable source, right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 14:54
|
|
|
I get the hate for Sam's betrayal, but...come on, betrayal has been a central theme throughout this game and there's been foreshadowing that maybe Sam is a lying douchebag. (I do think Naughty Dog's layering it on a bit too thickly, though.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 15:00
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:When has a PMC* ever not been shady? Any Ace Combat game where you play a mercenary (Which is 1, 2, 4 and zero IIRC)
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 15:26
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:I try to avoid potentially talking out my rear end about things I don't know anything about and real-life PMCs are one of those things. Fair enough. I'm not totally versed in them either. But I guess they are similar to the former Blackwater (They changed their name after people started hating them)
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 15:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 18:25 |
|
|
What I found annoying was the shoreline goons firing rockets at the boys when they were climbing the ropes as opposed to firing at the anchor points.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 15:37
|
|
