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Purity before practicality! We shall TELL the unwashed masses what they need!
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Dec 29, 2016 05:58
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There's a big gap between having goals and actively pursuing an agenda that will reach those goals. This is something the idiot left in the greens (I forget what they call themselves) seem to have forgotten or completely miscalculated.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:00
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you have two options: violent revolution and full communism now, or peacefully working from within peaceful full communism now is not an option. it has never been an option.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:03
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It is not fascim that a leftist faction of the Greens exists
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Dec 29, 2016 06:09
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Periphery posted:There's a big gap between having goals and actively pursuing an agenda that will reach those goals. This is something the idiot left in the greens (I forget what they call themselves) seem to have forgotten or completely miscalculated. I've never seen one until now lol
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Dec 29, 2016 06:11
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BBJoey posted:peaceful full communism now is not an option. it has never been an option. quote:the Communist Party in Australia lost its early war stigma as a result.[1] Its membership rose to 20,000, it won control of a number of important trade unions, and a Communist candidate, Fred Paterson, was elected to the Queensland parliament. quote:the CPA launched an industrial offensive in 1947, culminating in a prolonged strike in the coalmines in 1949. The Chifley Labor government saw this as a communist challenge to its position in the labour movement, and used the army and strikebreakers to break the strike. quote:the Liberal government of Robert Menzies tried to ban the Communist Party of Australia, first by legislation[2] that was declared invalid by the High Court, then by referendum to try to overcome the constitutional obstacles to that legislation. The 1951 referendum was opposed by the Communist Party as well as the Australian Labor Party, and was narrowly defeated. The issue of communist influence in the unions remained potent and led to the Australian Labor Party split of 1955 and the formation of the Democratic Labor Party comprising disaffected ALP members who were concerned over communist influence in Australian unions. quote:Despite its peripheral role in Australian politics and its ultimate failure, the Communist Party had an influence far beyond its numbers. From 1935 to the 1960s it occupied leadership positions in a number of important trade unions, and was at centre of many major industrial conflicts. Many of its members played leading roles in Australian cultural life, such as the novelists Katharine Susannah Prichard, Judah Waten, Frank Hardy, Eric Lambert and Alan Marshall, the painter Noel Counihan and the poet David Martin. Perhaps for that one glorious summer's day there was actually some real hope for a democratic Communist government in our wide brown poo poo stain of a country. Thank God for the army and white anting Catholic patriarchs!
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Dec 29, 2016 06:11
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please note fred paterson was beaten into a coma by riot police while a sitting member of parliament
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Dec 29, 2016 06:16
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The Peccadillo posted:It is not fascim that a leftist faction of the Greens exists no but it is a pain in the arse that a bunch of blowhards want to take a consensus based party and force it to use their particular language when discussing economic justice. it's like the 'alt-right' media in the US complaining that obama won't use the magic words 'radical islamic terrorism' when he had bin laden killed and bombed half the weddings in the middle east over 8 years.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:22
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ewe2 posted:Good news for Medicare! (not) This story is from Dec 2015 just FYI
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Dec 29, 2016 06:41
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thatbastardken posted:no but it is a pain in the arse that a bunch of blowhards want to take a consensus based party and force it to use their particular language when discussing economic justice. it's like the 'alt-right' media in the US complaining that obama won't use the magic words 'radical islamic terrorism' when he had bin laden killed and bombed half the weddings in the middle east over 8 years. Okay, I just want to stop here and take a vote where we recognize the right of Islamic people to exist and that the military industrial complex is inherently anti-Gaia.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:47
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thatbastardken posted:no but it is a pain in the arse that a bunch of blowhards want to take a consensus based party and force it to use their particular language when discussing economic justice. it's like the 'alt-right' media in the US complaining that obama won't use the magic words 'radical islamic terrorism' when he had bin laden killed and bombed half the weddings in the middle east over 8 years. Don't whinge, think
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Dec 29, 2016 06:47
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Certainly the impotent are pure.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:50
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Certainly the impotent are pure. Excuse me, can you avoid using such phallocentric language. It alienates those without penises.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:52
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Gorilla Salad posted:Okay, I just want to stop here and take a vote where we recognize the right of Islamic people to exist and that the military industrial complex is inherently anti-Gaia. I table an opposing motion that the we we recognise the right of Islamic people to exist and that the military industrial complex is inherently anti-Gaia
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Dec 29, 2016 06:53
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Point of order, BBJoey has an aggressively masculine name which goes against the central tenets of the
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Dec 29, 2016 06:55
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The Peccadillo posted:Don't whinge, think wow that's a great slogan. real top shelf stuff.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:58
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i totally agree that having *checks notes* fluid values like the Australian Labor Party have certainly helped them to be the pre-eminent force in Australian politics. You are always sure *checks watch* about what the ALP will stand on in any given issue.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:02
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Gorilla Salad posted:Excuse me, can you avoid using such phallocentric language. It alienates those without penises. The *makes chopping motion with hands* are pure. Also whether they're idiots or whatever being able to express yourself politically is a good thing. It's also a good thing if the party they're in challenges this in order to ensure whatever the party actually stands for is in general agreement and in line with their supporters. That's just how it works. Otherwise you know, you'd want to be in a different party or get kicked out for being deadweight/liabilities. Just part of the process in action. I feel like this is an obvious fundamental but I guess we ran out of other things to talk about.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:05
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DancingShade posted:The *makes chopping motion with hands* are pure. Yes, but why do it in a way that is so obviously damaging for the party that you claim to want to be a part of? The whole thing is so counterproductive that it makes it nonsensical. I'm sure plenty of other members have managed to express their opinions in ways that don't give easy ammunition to everyone that hates the Greens.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:14
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Gorilla Salad posted:Purity before practicality! Might as well... The Greens clearly aren't forming government by embracing realpolitik.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:19
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Periphery posted:Yes, but why do it in a way that is so obviously damaging for the party that you claim to want to be a part of? The whole thing is so counterproductive that it makes it nonsensical. I'm sure plenty of other members have managed to express their opinions in ways that don't give easy ammunition to everyone that hates the Greens. A decent point but the 'hard left' is always going to get wedged on being too red/radical/trot. Why Cold War era communism always seems to come up baffles me when the Scandinavian model is what the majority of people aspire to. The veil drops a little when one recognises that almost the entire fourth estate is pushing this wedge. It is hardly surprising it has main stream traction.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:22
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Cartoon posted:A decent point but the 'hard left' is always going to get wedged on being too red/radical/trot. Why Cold War era communism always seems to come up baffles me when the Scandinavian model is what the majority of people aspire to. The veil drops a little when one recognises that almost the entire fourth estate is pushing this wedge. It is hardly surprising it has main stream traction. dude I don't know if you've read their releases but the left renewal isn't aiming for democratic socialism, they're aiming for the dismantling of capitalism
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Dec 29, 2016 07:25
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Introducing yourself as the person who wants to gently caress their child to your future in laws
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Dec 29, 2016 07:27
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I'm gonna gently caress the poo poo out of capitalism and pis's in its aas, vote greens
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Dec 29, 2016 07:30
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yeah if it wasn't for these radical lefties, everyone would be lining up to vote Greens
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Dec 29, 2016 07:32
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BBJoey posted:dude I don't know if you've read their releases but the left renewal isn't aiming for democratic socialism, they're aiming for the dismantling of capitalism
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Dec 29, 2016 07:32
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Recoome posted:yeah if it wasn't for these radical lefties, everyone would be lining up to vote Greens radical leftist ideas can be expressed in forms other than 'smash capitalism, hail marxist-lenninist thought' though
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Dec 29, 2016 07:35
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Cartoon posted:A decent point but the 'hard left' is always going to get wedged on being too red/radical/trot. Why Cold War era communism always seems to come up baffles me when the Scandinavian model is what the majority of people aspire to. The veil drops a little when one recognises that almost the entire fourth estate is pushing this wedge. It is hardly surprising it has main stream traction. It's the massive resistance to their ideals that necessitates a far more subtle approach than screaming about destroying capitalism or whatever obviously controversial view they have. They can think and feel whatever they want, but they have to recoginse the realities of the world they live in. All their current actions do is isolate them from the vast majority of the population (you know, the people they need to win over in order to actually change anything) and damage the party they are apart of (a key tool for changing things). As such, if they are serious about making progress towards their goals then this is the last thing they should do imo. More so, when the Greens appear to be the only major party where 'change from within' is a possibility.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:42
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If there's one thing the right has shown, it's that screaming a controversial view really loudly and not backing down from it, can work. Not sure if using the Greens to do it is really helpful though.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:47
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:If there's one thing the right has shown, it's that screaming a controversial view really loudly and not backing down from it, can work. Not sure if using the Greens to do it is really helpful though. The right has a lot of poo poo going for it that the Left/Greens don't though. That means they probably have to pick their screaming opportunities much more carefully.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:52
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Australia was founded on some pretty profoundly xenophobic/white supremacist views, so at least for the right wing, there is a historical/cultural link for that to tap in to. Universal human rights though? v0v
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Dec 29, 2016 07:57
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Cartoon posted:A decent point but the 'hard left' is always going to get wedged on being too red/radical/trot. Why Cold War era communism always seems to come up baffles me when the Scandinavian model is what the majority of people aspire to. The veil drops a little when one recognises that almost the entire fourth estate is pushing this wedge. It is hardly surprising it has main stream traction. Almost as if they are reassuring their masters they won't change sides.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:59
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Periphery posted:Yes, but why do it in a way that is so obviously damaging for the party that you claim to want to be a part of? The whole thing is so counterproductive that it makes it nonsensical. I'm sure plenty of other members have managed to express their opinions in ways that don't give easy ammunition to everyone that hates the Greens. The corporate media will spin literally anything the Greens do as damaging to the party. They might as well get attacked for actually having values and things they believe in, rather than compromising their values in order to be "electable" and still get attacked in the media.
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Dec 29, 2016 08:11
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Periphery posted:The right has a lot of poo poo going for it that the Left/Greens don't though. That means they probably have to pick their screaming opportunities much more carefully. Yeah, the reason the alt-right got a foothold was because nobody really took them seriously enough to take any swings at them. The reason was probably equal parts some people agreeing more than they'd let on and others thinking they were a total joke, but the fact is they faced no opposition from the press and coasted in that way. An alt-left wouldn't get off the ground because the exact opposite is true.
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Dec 29, 2016 08:14
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thatfatkid posted:The corporate media will spin literally anything the Greens do as damaging to the party. They might as well get attacked for actually having values and things they believe in, rather than compromising their values in order to be "electable" and still get attacked in the media. You don't have to compromise your values to approach a strategy of reaching your goals in a way that is more likely to succeed. The LNP's core value of 'gently caress the poor/more money for the rich' isn't stated in big letters in a press release but instead is more subtly pursued using smaller and more attainable stepping stones that in the long run reach the end goal.
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Dec 29, 2016 08:28
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BBJoey posted:dude I don't know if you've read their releases but the left renewal isn't aiming for democratic socialism, they're aiming for the dismantling of capitalism They've hit a snag since "dismantle capitalism" their policies have been anti-sugar tax, a Libertarian ideal that ostracised the social left, and then a policy in support of sex workers in line with third wave feminism while slagging on radical feminist Greens candidates, putting them along side the Sex Party and off putting the radical feminists and radical socialists who were part of the original team. They keep contradicting themselves and now their base is Anti-capitalist socialist libertarians... what?!
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Dec 29, 2016 09:03
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Sounds like a good base to me.
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Dec 29, 2016 09:05
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Also one of their leaders identified themselves finally http://honisoit.com/author/evan-van-zijl/
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Dec 29, 2016 09:08
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Cartoon posted:Their purported releases. The ones nobody will put a name to. My post history here is more damning. sure but if we're not trusting what they've allegedly put out then literally all we know is "there's a facebook group called left renewal that some random greens are in, and they can't be bothered to take action against people posing as them and making bogus announcements". Lid posted:They keep contradicting themselves and now their base is Anti-capitalist socialist libertarians... what?! anarcho-syndicalism is the true way comrade
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Dec 29, 2016 09:57
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BBJoey posted:anarcho-syndicalism is the true way comrade help help i'm being repressed
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Dec 29, 2016 10:01
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