|
It was really quite jarring seeing just how much less I was being listened to once I started transitioning. Like even my friends started talking over me. It was most stark with loving doctors though. They just stopped respecting what I was saying all together.
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:46 |
|
|
Kelp Me! posted:I hope this doesn't fall under "do my homework for me," but is there a good direction to go in if I'm interested in the next level of this idea? That is, if I'm trying to apply the idea of "little tiny-seeming things are directly connected to gender-biased roots that crop up and cause major problems" to the world around me and not just between my wife and I? But in general, this is the attitude you want to have. Maybe you can't see the outline of the gender-bias problems in your workplace, but you know they're in there, camouflaged somewhere. So you look a little more closely and carefully. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Also frustrating is men tend to really not get that a man and the woman doing the same action will get different results. A man is "assertive" when a woman is "bitchy."
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:29
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The male gender issues thread is going around around with this mental block right now. I think there are two roots - our culture's sense of morality is very just-world, so if someone has a problem it's because they let it happen. Then people in privileged positions, like men, simply don't run into intractable, structural problems so much. They have a lot more freedom of choice - if your job is bad just get another job, etc. It makes it hard to see that venting about a problem is dealing with it, if you've reasonably determined that problem is not actually in your power to solve. In women's lives more often than men's lives sometimes things just suck and all you can do is manage your unhappiness about the sucking. I think I get what you're saying. I do wish there was a non-mansplainy way to instill more confidence in her, at least in her workplace setting. At this point she's literally indispensable to the company - so many people are relying on her at this point to keep things running smoothly despite the overall incompetence level that if she up and quit they'd be hosed. I honestly believe that she has enough sway to be able to set an ultimatum along the lines of "these things need to change or I'm out"," though like you said a good chunk of that belief is colored by my male perspective on things (hell even the idea that I want to help her be more confident has tinges of sexism) It's just so loving frustrating seeing her get home at 6:30 and immediately open her laptop and do more work for another couple of hours every day. I ask her to explain what gently caress-up she's cleaning up at the moment and it's so damned depressing, and the more I pay attention to who's adding to her workload the more I realize it's all men, and how lovely and condescending they can be when asking her to fix their mistakes or do work they didn't get to, etc.  Sorry, that turned into a little bit of a venting rant of my own.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:I find this insight very valuable. This often comes up when women complain about something in the context of internet abuse. Something like "Everyone gets flamed on the internet! Grow a thicker skin or take a break from the internet!" Without realizing that one nasty message a day is *very* different than 500 vile, threatening messages every day. E: nvm i am an idiot and already said that in my post
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I think you'd be a great candidate for employing amplification, which became well-known as the strategy Obama's female staffers used to make their voices heard in meetings. Obama's another good guy who would never be overtly sexist, but who let subconscious sexism permeate the way he ran meetings, so it seemed natural that men should talk over women and steal their ideas. The women in the room started combatting this by repeating a point their female coworker just made and most importantly, naming and thanking her. "I think Karen makes a great point there..." "Just to build off of what Jennifer said..." Just to reinforce TB's point (  ), this works really well and is pretty important to change the feeling of a situation. But on top of that, if you're a guy in a meeting where women get talked over, remember that by virtue of your gender you can be way more annoying than a women without ever getting to the point of "bitchy" or, God forbid, "selfish". At worst you're that guy who's way too politically correct, which... who gives a poo poo. So if you see a male colleague cutting a woman off, just cut them off in turn and say something. "Sorry, I think Jane wasn't finished yet." Stuff like that. They'll get annoyed at you, but after the 2nd or third time they'll stop doing it for a while. Just make an observation about your male colleagues never helping with the coffee, and why that is. Ask uncomfortable questions. At the end of the day you're still a guy, you'll be fine even if you are annoying in a meeting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Gloryhold It! posted:There are absolutely young "feminists" who are transphobic as gently caress. I use the scare quotes because I don't believe that you can honestly be a feminist while denying that some women are actually goddamn women. That issue has actually caused an earlier instance of this thread to implode in the past. These threads don't implode because of posters outside of the faction coming in, they implode because of two accepted regulars getting into a heated argument, calling each other Mega Bigots, and creating a huge drama and fracturing the thread into two sub-factions, setting off a huge flame war. BarbarianElephant posted:Not sure if there's any good advice there but I still find it funny. It's a good example of how sexism can create collosally stupid economic decisions. It's a great thing to bring up in the thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Gloryhold It! posted:It was really quite jarring seeing just how much less I was being listened to once I started transitioning. Like even my friends started talking over me. I recently quit a (female) PCP because she likely misdiagnosed a symptom of what turned out to be a serious problem by telling me to lose weight.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:34
|
|
|
botany posted:lmao ~*~reverse sexism~*~ As a mixed race person I've heard the same bullshit thrown around by minorities about racism. I do not believe in the notion of power + prejudice = sexism / racism. A bunch of people quoting what I wrote about TB and piling on is silly too. Anyway, I'm at a crossroads of understanding how trans feminism fits into a lot of ideas. Radical ideology makes more sense to me. It seems contradictory for some feminists to want to abolish gender identifiers when transgender people seemingly require those identifiers to be trans without surgery. I can understand how women do not want trans women to speak for them as it is entirely dependant on what point they have transitioned for their life experience to be similar enough for them to have similar experiences. If one is socialized male until 18 they have developed with male privilege and transitioning to a woman does not change that. Obviously upon transitioning and leading up to it depending on what gender they are displaying they receive their own unique sexism and transpobia. Key term being unique. It's different than what a biological woman has and will face in life. Therefore it seems to me that transvoices of both male and female and issues need to have separate space than that of woman's issues. Thoughts? I have many more questions about the dissonance between rad fem and lib fem but I'll have to save that for when I have more than my phone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
Good Canadian Boy posted:I can understand how women do not want trans women to speak for them as it is entirely dependant on what point they have transitioned for their life experience to be similar enough for them to have similar experiences. If one is socialized male until 18 they have developed with male privilege and transitioning to a woman does not change that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
Kelp Me! posted:I think I get what you're saying. I do wish there was a non-mansplainy way to instill more confidence in her, at least in her workplace setting. At this point she's literally indispensable to the company - so many people are relying on her at this point to keep things running smoothly despite the overall incompetence level that if she up and quit they'd be hosed. I honestly believe that she has enough sway to be able to set an ultimatum along the lines of "these things need to change or I'm out"," though like you said a good chunk of that belief is colored by my male perspective on things (hell even the idea that I want to help her be more confident has tinges of sexism) Oh this one's actually easy! See when you're telling her "you should have done x" you may think of that as instilling confidence, because to you you're saying "I know you're capable of doing x" but to her you're just reminding her of yet another shortcoming. Switch to saying the reasons why you know she's capable of doing x. Tell her she's smart, tell her she's competent, tell her she's strong. botany posted:Just to reinforce TB's point ( Yes Botany's suggestion is great. ( ) I can remember very vividly every time someone said "I think TB wasn't finished yet" in real life, because it's so rare and because it cheered me up so much every time. You can actually transfer your confidence to another person just by doing something as simple as that. It's a superpower..
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
silence_kit posted:That issue has actually caused an earlier instance of this thread to implode in the past. Could you kindly let us discuss issues relating to feminism in the feminism thread please?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh this one's actually easy! See when you're telling her "you should have done x" you may think of that as instilling confidence, because to you you're saying "I know you're capable of doing x" but to her you're just reminding her of yet another shortcoming. Switch to saying the reasons why you know she's capable of doing x. Tell her she's smart, tell her she's competent, tell her she's strong. I will try that, thanks  Good Canadian Boy posted:If one is socialized male until 18 they have developed with male privilege and transitioning to a woman does not change that. I have very little experience with trans issues but this seems really wrong. Someone who transitions at 18 has more than likely been living with the idea that they are not the gender they're meant to be for years. It's not like a guy lives for 18 years as a stereotypical guy and then one day becomes a woman. To assume that someone who transitions at that age has developed the same male privilege as a cishet male ignores the years of feelings of non-belonging and being different that person has felt for their whole life before building up the confidence to actually transition. I don't want to make any conclusions or endorsements of "should trans women be able to speak for/represent cis women as a whole," because I don't know enough to comment on that, but regardless of the age they choose to transition, assuming that they developed with the same levels of male privilege really seems to marginalize all the emotional baggage forced onto pre-transition gender-fluid (gender-queer? not sure the right term) people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
I have a massive problem keeping any women in my department for any length of time. Right now we have about 20 people and its all male. My last 4 hires have been women but none of them stay more than a year and a half. My thought was that the gender make up of the department has something to do with it, so I try to introduce the new hires to women outside of our department, introduce them to the people leading the internal women's org, etc, but it still doesn't seem to help much. I vastly prefer the idea diversity that appears when a project is multi-gendered but I'm not sure how to improve the environment enough so that we have the opportunity to have two women on staff at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:51
|
|
|
Uncle Jam posted:I have a massive problem keeping any women in my department for any length of time. Right now we have about 20 people and its all male.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:53
|
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:This is an assumption I see a lot, but it's not really true. Trans people face other issues and forms of discrimination. There's not a moment where you flip the "man/woman" switch and suddenly you go from having cis male privilege to not having it. This isn't a matter of whether it's consistent with feminist principles, your misconceptions about the trans experience are just inaccurate. You skipped over the next part of my post where I address that. I do not feel that someone that has felt Trans their whole life has not had their own issues and difficulties. They're human after all and not identifying with your gender is tough. But the way others view you affects your socialization. And if you have been viewed male for 18 years you will recieve male privilege from that and have male socialization ingrained in you. Therefore a Trans person in this scenario has a unique experience and not one of female socialization. In addition if a goal is to remove all gender norms. Outside of genitalia and hormones I do not understand how someone can then identify as boy or girl. And to just toss this in as well since it shares the same ideas - I don't understand how gender fluidity works without gender norms either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
Uncle Jam posted:I have a massive problem keeping any women in my department for any length of time. Right now we have about 20 people and its all male. This is a really interesting question. What is the general area of your business, if that isn't revealing too much about you? Have you conducted any exit interviews to try and get some feedback?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
Uncle Jam posted:I have a massive problem keeping any women in my department for any length of time. Right now we have about 20 people and its all male. Without more detail on the environment, it really sounds like those 20 males have created an environment of toxic masculinity so thick that no amount of "here meet these other women at the company who are unrelated to your department" will help. TBH, if it's so bad that you've had 4 women come on and then leave because of the workplace environment, making efforts to introduce them to other women outside of their department seems like it would make things worse - it comes off as a tacit acknowledgement that this woman is stuck working with 20 boorish men, and instead of trying to fix that, you're actually emphasizing the fact that the problem is that she's a woman, and her only solace is in commiserating with other women at the company, even though their jobs may be completely unrelated. Good Canadian Boy posted:I do not feel that someone that has felt Trans their whole life has not had their own issues and difficulties. They're human after all and not identifying with your gender is tough. But the way others view you affects your socialization. And if you have been viewed male for 18 years you will recieve male privilege from that and have male socialization ingrained in you. Therefore a Trans person in this scenario has a unique experience and not one of female socialization. Again, though, you're assuming that this person has been viewed male for 18 years, which heavily implies viewed as "ideal" male, when that's almost never the case. Even if they didn't transition until age 18, those first 18 years were most likely filled with criticism and bullying over not being "male enough." The stereotypical view of a male is extremely exclusive, and any deviations from it (differences in fashion, musical/literary/whatever tastes, behavior, etc.) are punished harshly. So yes, maybe there are some people who blended perfectly in male social circles all the way through high school before transitioning, it seems like the majority of people in that situation faced years and years of taunting and bullying for being not masculine enough, so again, you're minimizing all the poo poo that person had to go through before they transitioned by assuming they've received the same treatment and subsequent development of male privilege as their cishet peers. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
Good Canadian Boy posted:In addition if a goal is to remove all gender norms. Outside of genitalia and hormones I do not understand how someone can then identify as boy or girl. And to just toss this in as well since it shares the same ideas - I don't understand how gender fluidity works without gender norms either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
quote:I have very little experience with trans issues but this seems really wrong. Someone who transitions at 18 has more than likely been living with the idea that they are not the gender they're meant to be for years. It's not like a guy lives for 18 years as a stereotypical guy and then one day becomes a woman. To assume that someone who transitions at that age has developed the same male privilege as a cishet male ignores the years of feelings of non-belonging and being different that person has felt for their whole life before building up the confidence to actually transition. I don't want to make any conclusions or endorsements of "should trans women be able to speak for/represent cis women as a whole," because I don't know enough to comment on that, but regardless of the age they choose to transition, assuming that they developed with the same levels of male privilege really seems to marginalize all the emotional baggage forced onto pre-transition gender-fluid (gender-queer? not sure the right term) people. Feeling as an other, depression, bullying and any other things that might come as a result of not feeling your gender are not synonymous with being a woman or anything like that though? Plenty of white Cis males experience many traumas and difficulties in their life growing up and that doesn't give them a spot at the table. In fact closeted gay men can often have similar experiences as trans women growing up and that doesn't qualify them to speak for women either?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
TB is nailing exactly what I want to hear when I'm talking to mr coro about problems at work. He gives good advice but all I want to hear is "wow that sucks but hey you're doing an extremely tough thing and I know you can do it" Chiming in on women doing menial tasks in the workplace, among my work friends we call this being the "lab wife." Being the one in the lab who bakes treats to bring in, who takes out full bags to be sterilized before they go in the trash, cleaning poo poo that gets gross from overuse. We're all actively resisting being lab wife in our respective labs. Nobody has time to make treats, we're trying to do science here. And cleaning/taking poo poo to the trash is the tech's job, and none of us are techs. I still get voluntold to bring things to potlucks but I've learned to bring some premade thing from the store. Also last year after a bunch of people across the department had babies, we were having a gathering at my boss's house and he said something to the effect of "yeah babies are hard you know, they wake up in the middle of the night crying but you can just ignore them and a few minutes later they calm down and you go back to sleep." His wife came out of the kitchen and said "don't listen to him, he's full of poo poo, I was the one who got out of bed and calmed the baby" to which he just laughed 
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
There was definitely a lot of poo poo that I had to learn or unlearn as I started presenting as a woman. Like I had never felt threatened on account of my gender and was therefore completely unaware of how threatening a lot of poo poo guys do is. Got a rather rude awakening on that one when a delivery driver cornered me in my foyer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:But who is arguing for this? Who is arguing for a world in which nobody expresses gender? I'd certainly argue for a world where the concept of gender is so individualized that it ceases to be classifiable. But we don't live in that world so I don't see that as being at odds with people responding to living in a gendered world and identifying as one or the other.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
And please for the love of gently caress, if you're talking about women who aren't trans, it's cis women. Not just women. Trans women are women drat it
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
Office-wifeing is another great example of the tiny things that hold women back that no man will believe could possibly matter. Imagine if a woman said in an exit interview that she was leaving because her boss asked her to make tea or bring cookies to the potluck. It's something even one man can't really convince another man of. You can only lead by example - men by not making office wife demands and quietly redirecting men who do, and women by refusing whenever they can.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Good Canadian Boy posted:Feeling as an other, depression, bullying and any other things that might come as a result of not feeling your gender are not synonymous with being a woman or anything like that though? Plenty of white Cis males experience many traumas and difficulties in their life growing up and that doesn't give them a spot at the table. In fact closeted gay men can often have similar experiences as trans women growing up and that doesn't qualify them to speak for women either? You're right in that it doesn't necessarily qualify them to speak for all women, but it is because their experiences are wholly unique, and not because they have too much male privilege. Talking about closeted gay men is irrelevant because "should closeted gay men be able to speak for cis women" isn't a debate that exists, but "should trans women be able to speak for cis women" is. To put it another way, "feeling as an other/depression/bullying" is not synonymous with being a woman, but "living/presenting as a male until age 18 before transitioning" is not synonymous with "being instilled with standard male privilege" either. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Gloryhold It! posted:And please for the love of gently caress, if you're talking about women who aren't trans, it's cis women. Not just women. This kind of thing is really important (black people, not "blacks" please). It's the furniture of our minds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
As a transwoman the period of my life when I had to act male was one of abject misery. In a way I agree with what you're saying to some extent, but I really want to stress that sure I was raised male but every moment was spent seeing that as wrong and not right for me. I don't know if this really addresses you, but the best analogy I have is that I was like one of those little aliens in the first Men in Black, piloting a human robot. My body was very much NOT mine. On the subject of removing gender I would personally say it's impossible and the wrong solution. To me the solution is more addressing what is problematic about gendered expression and making it so one isn't dominate and there is true equality. I'll say I don't understand when someone is gender non binary but that's because being one gender is so important to me. I absolutely support them in their quest to be themselves! How I address feminism now though is shaped by the older feminist view though. I will always feel like an intruder, that I don't belong, that I'm not a "real" woman, and worth less. Hell I prefer woman but I don't even feel like I "deserve" to say I'm a lesbian. I don't know how to address that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
Re: radical feminism 1. An inherent part of radical feminism is the lack of intersecrionality. Women are oppressed as a monolith for being female (re: vaginas and the ability to give birth). Now they're not totally wrong here, but first off its not the entirety of female oppression, the lives of both trans women and men testify to this.(As rationalwiki put it, this is the inherent problem of their ideology flying in the face of people's lived experience. Also its just flat out wrong and a bit condescending to lump female oppression and discrimination into one monolith. An upper income wbite girl who grew up in a fancy community has much different systematic problems than a woman of color in the inner city, or an undocumented woman who has lived here since she was 2, or a newly settled refugee. 2. Socialization: they are again not totally wrong, but its the monolith problem again socialization is treated as one universal experience for men and women, which is ludicrous, and its treated as a line cemented in stone, where the process just ends one day in your life. But where that line is is a never changing goalpost 3. Ignkres the life experience of trans men and women, believes in biology differences only when its convenient to their argument
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
I'm one of those people who hates things being presented in a gendered way. Resentment over being given the female version of toys and media etc. has really made me dislike all that stuff (this is for boy, this is for girl), though that might be internalized misogyny or personal preference on my part. As for trans women not being included because they have an atypical experience, what makes you think cis women are all the same and can speak for eachother? Transwoman is just another female experience, and should be given a voice as well as all other women's experiences. ^^this person said it better.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Eimi posted:How I address feminism now though is shaped by the older feminist view though. I will always feel like an intruder, that I don't belong, that I'm not a "real" woman, and worth less. Hell I prefer woman but I don't even feel like I "deserve" to say I'm a lesbian. I don't know how to address that. I feel that you may be expressing feelings of self-hatred linked to depression by seeking out media that validates your negative thoughts. A matter to work over with your therapist. If you read newer trans-positive feminist writing it should be more positive. Remember that the transphobic feminist stuff is quite obsolete. It's like reading old medical manuals where being gay is a psychological disorder. They sincerely believed it back then, but they were wrong and it is obsolete.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
Eimi posted:As a transwoman the period of my life when I had to act male was one of abject misery. In a way I agree with what you're saying to some extent, but I really want to stress that sure I was raised male but every moment was spent seeing that as wrong and not right for me. I don't know if this really addresses you, but the best analogy I have is that I was like one of those little aliens in the first Men in Black, piloting a human robot. My body was very much NOT mine. I don't want to draw too strong a correlation because as someone said earlier it's really not an appropriate comparison, but I've had some interesting conversations with gay men talking about how they carry permanent scars from the stress of being closeted, and younger gay men seem alien to them for not having grown up with that. Obviously this is far from everywhere but there are some places where it's becoming common for kids to come out in adolescence or even younger, so they grow up having lived a completely different kind of life than the gay men who came before them. We can't undo the suffering that has already happened, but we can try to help the next generation not have it so bad. Amplifying young trans voices, supporting ways young people challenge gender identity and roles (so biting our tongues at things that might seem too naive or snowflakey or tumblr-y, like when an actor's kid airily says they "don't believe in labels"), lobbying the government and the medical community to make transitioning easier, educating parents and teachers to help trans kids live openly as early as possible, and putting our existing activist political frameworks to the task. Feminism already critiques gender roles. We're set up to help, and it's our moral obligation to do so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
coronatae posted:Also last year after a bunch of people across the department had babies, we were having a gathering at my boss's house and he said something to the effect of "yeah babies are hard you know, they wake up in the middle of the night crying but you can just ignore them and a few minutes later they calm down and you go back to sleep." His wife came out of the kitchen and said "don't listen to him, he's full of poo poo, I was the one who got out of bed and calmed the baby" to which he just laughed This is really loving horrible and cringe worthy
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:I feel that you may be expressing feelings of self-hatred linked to depression by seeking out media that validates your negative thoughts. A matter to work over with your therapist. If you read newer trans-positive feminist writing it should be more positive. Remember that the transphobic feminist stuff is quite obsolete. It's like reading old medical manuals where being gay is a psychological disorder. They sincerely believed it back then, but they were wrong and it is obsolete. Part of that is growing up in Kansas and when feminism was discussed (when I was young) only the older stuff was credited as legitimate. So it was a big part of my exposure to feminism. I'm sure the depression is why I keep those ideas but I was able to leave behind Dick Dorkins in the garbage where he belongs. As for PTSD from being in the closet I don't know. I came out at 22 and I'm 28 now. It's not like I had to live my midlife as a man. School here is way more conservative than on the coasts though. Like I remember the one guy with a lisp who was chubby and everyone hated him. I can't remember if I made fun of him but I sure did not stand up for him. As for younger activism it's a growing problem that we very much have two countries and while those efforts matter a lot they don't really penetrate flyover country til college. And even then only the "right" college. KU is liberal, K-state not so much.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:46
|
|
|
My red text is slightly different today than it was yesterday, meaning someone saw my red text and paid to change it again to something that amounts to the same thing.  What in the world. Was the first request to kill myself lacking in some nuance that you think the current one nails? TB and Stone Cold: please, please, please spend that money on any one of the excellent charities in the OP instead of wasting it on red text for people who aren't even your enemy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Schmeichy posted:As for trans women not being included because they have an atypical experience, what makes you think cis women are all the same and can speak for eachother? Transwoman is just another female experience, and should be given a voice as well as all other women's experiences. I don't think anyone is the same at all. I just see too many grey areas and confusion in feminism for me to try to figure out a feminist world view beyond the obvious let's make things more equal for woman and LGBT peeps. But I don't think that my views on sex vs. Gender and transgender people will be well received in this thread anyway so I'll show myself out. I will say though that I am worried Trans lobbying groups will stifle research on transgendered people, body dysphoria and where the line from one crosses into the other and that does a great disservice to everyone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:58
|
|
|
Deified Data posted:My red text is slightly different today than it was yesterday, meaning someone saw my red text and paid to change it again to something that amounts to the same thing. lmao if you think that's from them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 18:58
|
|
|
botany posted:lmao if you think that's from them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 19:01
|
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:Popular theory is that it's like three or four lurkers who spend hundreds of dollars, but we have no way of knowing because lmao. It's like how the people who vote on threads are never the people who post in them. I wonder how long it is before I've posted so often that I annoy someone and am not a whiny newbie baby anymore
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 19:13
|
|
|
Good Canadian Boy posted:I don't think anyone is the same at all. I mean yeah your views wouldnt be well accepted because they've fallen out of the mainstream for a reason. If you're holding onto them you should be able to defebd them, not bow out Also a side note, while its not an inherent part of their ideology, a lot of radfems view all trans women as caricatures of trans women, like 50 year old trans woman on day 9 of transition. Like they cant accept trans people can be viewed as their identified gender without gendering themselves to the extreme with behavior, clothes, ect
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:46 |
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The male gender issues thread is going around around with this mental block right now. I think there are two roots - our culture's sense of morality is very just-world, so if someone has a problem it's because they let it happen. Then people in privileged positions, like men, simply don't run into intractable, structural problems so much. They have a lot more freedom of choice - if your job is bad just get another job, etc. It makes it hard to see that venting about a problem is dealing with it, if you've reasonably determined that problem is not actually in your power to solve. In women's lives more often than men's lives sometimes things just suck and all you can do is manage your unhappiness about the sucking. I wish we would socialize our boys to be more quietly confident, because "assertive" men only make me angry to deal with in any capacity. Less so when it's a woman (which is probably ingrained sexim there too, albiet of the "not a threat" kind), but it's still there. Defenestration posted:I agree with TB about amplification. I would add that you can make an effort to directly solicit women's ideas, especially in front of other men. And you can listen to them one on one. Take a minute to be like "hey what did you think about that meeting/this strategy?" in private, so that she might feel more inclined to say what she feels without public consequences. Amplification (I had no idea there was a term for it, but hooray!) is great. I try to use it at work when we deal with outside groups that involve (typically) men and they try to talk over my boss.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2016 19:23
|
|