Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Nenonen posted:

Eh, that's not quite true. The ensemble was always part of the Soviet propaganda machinery. Not a very sinister part, but still obvious propaganda, much more obvious than other forms of culture and sports that are also widely used for propaganda purposes.

After the fall of Soviet Union it came to be seen so kitschy that Helmut Lotti could safely perform the same Stalinist songs, but imagine if Bundeswehr had its own choir and dance group performing Horst Wessel Lied and other beloved classics...

I mean, might as well shoot all the Soviet / Russian filmmakers, actors, musicians, singers... because they make the life in Russia less miserable, and thus contribute to the survival of its corrupt regime by placating the populace, and are part of national propaganda.

Or at least hang all those ballet dancers who were pretty much bred to raise Russia's prestige abroad.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 18:51

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# ? May 12, 2024 21:43

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

See, the �vejk gets it.

Cat Mattress posted:

Red Army Choir

not a propaganda machine.

Look at what you've written. Look at it! :laffo:

Cat Mattress posted:

They're a source of prestige for the country, sure, but they don't broadcast any sort of message (other than "Russia has a great band"). Trying to find some stupid way to make this tragic accident a victory for the free world is just tasteless.

Hmm, yes, this perpetual Red Army PR stunt that's been basically their image since the soviet union still existed is not propaganda to make the army look like a cool bunch of pals, who sing songs and dance with glee and have a gay old time, no sir. Spoiler but not really: enlisted officers maim and kill people in wars, actively supporting the shitshows putin's involved in. Them singing in a choir doesn't change that, it just makes it worse because it makes it seem they're cool average people who don't do war crimes.

Again, I like the red army choir music. I *love* commie songs especially, they're the best. But a bunch of singing soldiers died? Tough titty. Maybe don't fly to syria to provide morale support for people bombing civilians next time, shitlords.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 19:26

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016

Cat Mattress posted:

No, a bunch of singers and musicians are not a propaganda machine. They're a source of prestige for the country, sure, but they don't broadcast any sort of message (other than "Russia has a great band").

But they do?

# ? Dec 29, 2016 19:39

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

steinrokkan posted:

I mean, might as well shoot all the Soviet / Russian filmmakers, actors, musicians, singers... because they make the life in Russia less miserable, and thus contribute to the survival of its corrupt regime by placating the populace, and are part of national propaganda.

Or at least hang all those ballet dancers who were pretty much bred to raise Russia's prestige abroad.

Nay, I feel sorry for them (and the reporters and the rest of the casualties). But to say that they weren't propaganda is odd. This isn't a stock photograph of a kitten used to market an unrelated product, they were actual military personnel dressed in military uniforms singing militaristic songs. If that's not military propaganda then what is?

Nenonen fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 29, 2016

# ? Dec 29, 2016 19:56

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

The sad part is, the people who died are probably just duders who like singing, the ones orchestrating the whole thing didn't. Still can't feel sorry for them though, red army choir isn't the only choir in russia.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 20:01

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

The point is, we have Russia Today, Sputnik, and the Internet Research Agency. They're shaping up popular perception of Russia's actions over the world a lot more than what the army choir could ever hope to do.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 20:05

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Dwesa posted:

But they do?

It was an extremely polite rocket that shot down MH17.

Cat Mattress posted:

The point is, we have Russia Today, Sputnik, and the Internet Research Agency. They're shaping up popular perception of Russia's actions over the world a lot more than what the army choir could ever hope to do.

Yeah, the point is the existence of other venues of propaganda doesn't suddenly make one not propaganda.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 29, 2016

# ? Dec 29, 2016 20:06

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

anilEhilated posted:

Yeah, the thing is the existence of other venues of propaganda doesn't suddenly make one not propaganda.

Saying Russia lost a propaganda machine with that crash is like saying Russia has been disarmed by a burglar stealing some old sword from a museum. In that metaphor, RT, Sputnik, and the Kremlin trolls are the nuclear triad.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 20:12

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Which is probably why no one is saying that. IIRC, the post was about a part of the propaganda machine - and it most definitely was that.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 20:13

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Hate to break up Red Army Choir chat, but President Obama just sent 35 Russian diplomats packing and ordered two Russian compounds in the US closed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14I1TY

Reuters posted:

President Barack Obama on Thursday ordered the expulsion of 35 Russian diplomats and sanctioned Russian intelligence officials who Washington believes were involved in hacking U.S. political groups in the 2016 presidential election.

The measures, taken during the last days of Obama's presidency, mark a new low in U.S.-Russian relations which have deteriorated over serious differences on Ukraine and Syria.

"These actions follow repeated private and public warnings that we have issued to the Russian government, and are a necessary and appropriate response to efforts to harm U.S. interests in violation of established international norms of behavior," Obama said in a statement from vacation in Hawaii.

It was not immediately clear whether President-elect Donald Trump, who has repeatedly praised Russian President Vladimir Putin and nominated people seen as friendly toward Moscow to senior administration posts, would seek to roll back the measures once he takes office on Jan. 20.

Obama is seeking to deter Russia and other foreign governments from leveraging cyber attacks in the future to meddle in U.S. politics, former officials and cyber security experts said.

Obama has been under growing pressure from within his own administration and lawmakers of both political parties to respond more forcefully to the cyber attacks, which included leaked emails of Democratic Party operatives that became part of the media coverage in the campaign for the Nov. 8 presidential election.

The Russian foreign ministry said on Thursday the sanctions were counter-productive and would harm the restoration of bilateral ties. Moscow denies the hacking allegation.

Obama sanctioned two Russian intelligence agencies, the GRU and the FSB, four GRU officers and three companies "that provided material support to the GRU�s cyber operations.

PERSONA NON GRATA

Obama said the State Department declared as "persona non grata" 35 Russian intelligence operatives and is closing two Russian compounds in New York and Maryland that were used by Russian personnel for "intelligence-related purposes". The State Department originally said the 35 were diplomats.

A senior U.S. official told Reuters the move would affect the Russian embassy in Washington and consulate in San Francisco.

The Russians have 72 hours to leave the United States, the official said. Access to the two compounds, which are used by Russian officials for intelligence gathering, will be denied to all Russian officials as of noon on Friday, the senior U.S. official added.

"These actions were taken to respond to Russian harassment of American diplomats and actions by the diplomats that we have assessed to be not consistent with diplomatic practice," the official said.

The State Department has long complained that Russian security agents and traffic police have harassed U.S. diplomats in Moscow, and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has raised the issue with Putin and his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov.

"By imposing costs on the Russian diplomats in the United States, by denying them access to the two facilities, we hope the Russian government reevaluates its own actions, which have impeded the ability and safety of our own embassy personnel in Russia," the official said.

The U.S. official declined to name the Russian diplomats who would be affected, although it is understood that Russia's ambassador to the United States, Sergei Kislyak, will not be one of those expelled.

Reevaluate their actions - I'm sure the Russians are reflecting on their mistakes right now.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 21:28

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Reevaluate their actions - I'm sure the Russians are reflecting on their mistakes right now.

Can't send him back, one of Obama's Muslim Brotherhood assassins is coming for him.

# ? Dec 29, 2016 21:31

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

This is a sincere question and I'm really refraining my utter contempt and disgust to make it. What would be the reaction of this thread if one of the planes that bring singers or comedians to perform to the US army stationed on Iraq or Afghanistan fell? Would it be the same callousness displayed towards the RAC or would there an attempt to make a distinction between them and the troops waging war on the ground?

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:30

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Plutonis posted:

This is a sincere question and I'm really refraining my utter contempt and disgust to make it. What would be the reaction of this thread if one of the planes that bring singers or comedians to perform to the US army stationed on Iraq or Afghanistan fell? Would it be the same callousness displayed towards the RAC or would there an attempt to make a distinction between them and the troops waging war on the ground?

Those comedians didn't advocate the invasion of my country so I'd be a bit sad probably.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:37

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Plutonis posted:

This is a sincere question and I'm really refraining my utter contempt and disgust to make it. What would be the reaction of this thread if one of the planes that bring singers or comedians to perform to the US army stationed on Iraq or Afghanistan fell? Would it be the same callousness displayed towards the RAC or would there an attempt to make a distinction between them and the troops waging war on the ground?

lol

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:39

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

I mean I would literally laugh out loud if some idiot entertainers died enmasse

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:41

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

provided that the group included Adam Sandler

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:42

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Plutonis posted:

This is a sincere question and I'm really refraining my utter contempt and disgust to make it. What would be the reaction of this thread if one of the planes that bring singers or comedians to perform to the US army stationed on Iraq or Afghanistan fell? Would it be the same callousness displayed towards the RAC or would there an attempt to make a distinction between them and the troops waging war on the ground?

Of course not, because people on this board generally like the US more than Russia, people are instinctive hypocrites like this. The complaints for the the choir as militaristic propaganda is true for all army choirs, Russian, US, Estonian, Romanian etc, it's just that in comparison to most others Russia is really good at being an unlikable fucker.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:48

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Plutonis posted:

This is a sincere question and I'm really refraining my utter contempt and disgust to make it. What would be the reaction of this thread if one of the planes that bring singers or comedians to perform to the US army stationed on Iraq or Afghanistan fell? Would it be the same callousness displayed towards the RAC or would there an attempt to make a distinction between them and the troops waging war on the ground?

It depends: did they do any numbers wishing for people in neighboring country to freeze to death since they don't see eye-to-eye with their government?

# ? Dec 30, 2016 00:53

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Nenonen posted:

provided that the group included Adam Sandler

How dare you, his movies are more watchable than Tarantino's.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 01:01

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Nenonen posted:

provided that the group included Adam Sandler

This, but I kind of hope they'd put Justin Bieber on the same plane. (Yes I know he was born in Canada, but he lives in the US now.)

# ? Dec 30, 2016 01:55

Lumpy the Cook: Feb 4, 2011; Drippy-goo-yay, mother-gunker!

Plutonis posted:

This is a sincere question and I'm really refraining my utter contempt and disgust to make it. What would be the reaction of this thread if one of the planes that bring singers or comedians to perform to the US army stationed on Iraq or Afghanistan fell? Would it be the same callousness displayed towards the RAC or would there an attempt to make a distinction between them and the troops waging war on the ground?

Good riddance! I hope those little freaks Adam Sandler and Justin Bieber violently die next :twisted:

mwahahahaha

e:f,b

# ? Dec 30, 2016 02:28

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Zudgemud posted:

Of course not, because people on this board generally like the US more than Russia, people are instinctive hypocrites like this. The complaints for the the choir as militaristic propaganda is true for all army choirs, Russian, US, Estonian, Romanian etc, it's just that in comparison to most others Russia is really good at being an unlikable fucker.

My reaction would be pretty much identical tbh: don't sign up to provide morale support for people killing other people.
I don't think it's a very complicated concept.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Hate to break up Red Army Choir chat, but President Obama just sent 35 Russian diplomats packing and ordered two Russian compounds in the US closed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-cyber-idUSKBN14I1TY

Reevaluate their actions - I'm sure the Russians are reflecting on their mistakes right now.

This is great tbh, now Trump can choose better Russian buddies easier :v:

"Oh, Obama expelled all those dudes let me tell you, and now we can't work with our friends in Russia well, so here's some Putin's best buddies that'll work with us bigly."

Truga fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Dec 30, 2016

# ? Dec 30, 2016 02:59

ass struggle: Dec 25, 2012; by Athanatos

The executive order also placed sanctions on the entire FSB.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 04:13

Horns of Hattin: Dec 21, 2011

Literally the final, agonizing flailing in the last days of this lame-duck administration.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 06:16

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

I'm very glad Obama's last actions are to empower Trump to abuse executive orders even more so than he's done for the past eight years. It's like he's purposefully trying to destroy his own legacy.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 08:33

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

steinrokkan posted:

I'm very glad Obama's last actions are to empower Trump to abuse executive orders even more so than he's done for the past eight years. It's like he's purposefully trying to destroy his own legacy.

Trump is the ultimate troll, and Obama is having a meltdown.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 08:53

Torquemadras: Jun 3, 2013

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Trump is the ultimate troll, and Obama is having a meltdown.

I genuinely hope Trump tries pulling the "I was only PRETENDING to be retarded" defense at some point

# ? Dec 30, 2016 10:27

Bates: Jun 15, 2006

In the exceedingly short list of things that may inhibit Trump political custom and decorum is not among them.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 11:06

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Torquemadras posted:

I genuinely hope Trump tries pulling the "I was only PRETENDING to be retarded" defense at some point

Trump has nothing to defend though. Obama called him out, and now Trump is destroying Obama's legacy. Winners don't need defending.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 11:44

Torquemadras: Jun 3, 2013

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Trump has nothing to defend though. Obama called him out, and now Trump is destroying Obama's legacy. Winners don't need defending.

Dunno, four years is a long time, and that dude's twitter trigger is short.

Mind you, not that that particular stunt would make any difference - he could enthusiastically deny/applaud the Holocaust, and those who dislike him continue to do so, while those you love him might love him even more

# ? Dec 30, 2016 14:32

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Torquemadras posted:

Dunno, four years is a long time, and that dude's twitter trigger is short.

Mind you, not that that particular stunt would make any difference - he could enthusiastically deny/applaud the Holocaust, and those who dislike him continue to do so, while those you love him might love him even more

And the cognitive dissonance would grow stronger for everyone in-between, like say Netanyahu and Israel if he pulled something like that.

# ? Dec 30, 2016 16:46

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Well, that's not creepy at all ...

https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/814913979797667840

# ? Dec 30, 2016 20:26

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

At least everyone knows exactly what he has on his mind!

E: An Enter Air plane with mostly Polish travelers was forced to make an emergency landing at the Prague Vaclav Havel/Ruzyne airport (PRG) due to a bomb threat. Apparently the cops have the suspect but aren't saying if there really was a bomb.
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/domaci/1998757-v-praze-nouzove-pristalo-letadlo-kvuli-hrozbe-bombou-policie-zneskodnila-podezreleho

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Dec 30, 2016

# ? Dec 30, 2016 21:48

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

Happy New Year EE! Let Polite Green Men and Grad strikes always miss you!

# ? Dec 31, 2016 23:08

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Szczesliwego nowego roku! Happy new year EE goons!

# ? Jan 1, 2017 00:37

Shes Not Impressed: Apr 25, 2004

Щасливого нового року from Ukraine folks

# ? Jan 1, 2017 00:44

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Laimīgu Jauno gadu!

# ? Jan 1, 2017 00:48

Rincewinds: Jul 30, 2014; MEAT IS MEAT

mobby_6kl posted:

At least everyone knows exactly what he has on his mind!

E: An Enter Air plane with mostly Polish travelers was forced to make an emergency landing at the Prague Vaclav Havel/Ruzyne airport (PRG) due to a bomb threat. Apparently the cops have the suspect but aren't saying if there really was a bomb.
http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ct24/domaci/1998757-v-praze-nouzove-pristalo-letadlo-kvuli-hrozbe-bombou-policie-zneskodnila-podezreleho

Pierogi party?

And yes, happy new year, given the last year, let's party like it's 1939.

# ? Jan 1, 2017 01:00

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Somehow 2016 wasn't actually much worse than 2015 for EE so I guess :toot:

The polish passenger was just mad about something and didn't actually have a bomb. They were doing a psychiatric evaluation but I'm not sure if he'd be charged with something.

# ? Jan 1, 2017 01:51

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# ? May 12, 2024 21:43

ass struggle: Dec 25, 2012; by Athanatos

https://twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/815232903948931073

# ? Jan 1, 2017 07:30

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