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NikkolasKing posted:I'm just curious since this comes up fairly often in the FF thread, which SMT games have the best soundtracks? It's not even up for debate. It's IMAGINE by a mile and a half. A good track from a game in the series? It's in IMAGINE. As are better, IMAGINE specific remixes and remasters. And it has hundreds of unique tracks for countless scenarios and unique events and up until it went and finally ended (with a sequel hook of all things!) in May was still constantly adding more.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:58
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Pity the game played like dog poop unless you were willing to shell out cash for gear.
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Dec 26, 2016 23:23
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uncleKitchener posted:Persona stuff gets good from P2 onwards. Most P4 stuff is not for me but people love it and eat it up like candy. Persona 5 on the other hand is just the kind of game for an old school guy like me. Vocal tracks are still not my thing, but everything else is great. The P1 remake soundtrack's solid actually. It's not one of my favourites, but it's by no means bad.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:58
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The original P1 ost is really good actually and the vocal songs they added to the P1 remake are terrible
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Dec 27, 2016 07:02
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Captain Baal posted:The original P1 ost is really good actually and the vocal songs they added to the P1 remake are terrible The original P1 music is really good and atmospheric within the game, though I have a hard time imagining people getting endeared to it from listening to it in isolation without playing the game. Since a lot of the best music in the game is very ambient and the synths are pretty dated... The vocal songs were here and there but the other problem with the remake soundtrack is really slashing the number of tracks (getting rid of a lot of the good ambient tracks) and replacing a lot of the cool arrangements (like Deva Yuga/Karma Palace) with incredibly dull and lifeless versions.
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Dec 27, 2016 07:51
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The battle themes of P1 are p good imo and the boss theme is great. Also the original Persona theme is underrated and no one ever talks about it and it was a big motif for P1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6y4rW8qkng And they did a cool rear end lead in to P5's theme with the 25th Anniversary for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhhLSyu-WVw
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Dec 27, 2016 08:33
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Persona 1 theme is good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evw9MyDYSDA
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Dec 27, 2016 09:35
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Captain Baal posted:The battle themes of P1 are p good imo and the boss theme is great. The lead-in to P1's boss theme is probably the coolest use of the SMT "talk theme -> battle theme" transition in the series. I get a bit of chills whenever the Persona theme appears in a modern game, like when it's briefly used in a pivotal but otherwise very dumb plot cutscene in Persona 3. I don't think it was used in Persona 4 at all? I heard that track with the Persona theme when listening to the P5 soundtrack and I assume it's used in a pivotal moment in the game? On a slightly related note can we talk about how cool and understated the original P1 intro cutscene is, despite being technologically primitive? It's another thing which was made a lot more lame in the PSP remake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBoe21629vM
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Dec 27, 2016 09:36
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The Megami Ibunroku Arrange of P5's theme is an additional track to the 20th Anniversary Collection, it's not actually used in game it was just composed to celebrate the 20th Anniversary. Every CD on the collection has an extra track iirc.
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Dec 27, 2016 09:40
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Item Getter posted:The original P1 music is really good and atmospheric within the game, though I have a hard time imagining people getting endeared to it from listening to it in isolation without playing the game. Since a lot of the best music in the game is very ambient and the synths are pretty dated... Agreed. I really missed the original "awakening" track they'd play when people discovered their personae for the first time.
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Dec 27, 2016 11:29
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https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/813674439267258368
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Dec 28, 2016 05:40
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https://twitter.com/yokotaro/status/813908362836385793 Yoko Taro is goddamn nuts and I love it. 
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Dec 28, 2016 08:21
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he's a wacky anime protag and I love him
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Dec 28, 2016 10:29
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Dragonatrix posted:It's not even up for debate. It's IMAGINE by a mile and a half. A good track from a game in the series? It's in IMAGINE. As are better, IMAGINE specific remixes and remasters. And it has hundreds of unique tracks for countless scenarios and unique events and up until it went and finally ended (with a sequel hook of all things!) in May was still constantly adding more. As someone who GMV'd (Game Master Volunteer) IMAGINE, the soundtrack never got old in the 6 years I was there. What did get old was people asking me how to open their costume voucher. My favourite soundtrack personally though would honestly go to SMT IV. I was honestly impressed!
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Dec 28, 2016 14:12
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Boneless Jogger posted:https://twitter.com/yokotaro/status/813908362836385793 Yoko Taro is great and I'm glad he's suddenly getting attention outside the audience of Dark Id LPs.
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Dec 28, 2016 15:02
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Just "finished" Sector E. I was a little worried because someone in this thread or maybe the minor SMT tangent in the FF thread said Ouroboros is tough and I just happened to talk to this one NPC Demon who said I could never beat it. So I was looking over my pitiful team of demons who I just use enough to level them up so I can get their Sources and I was thinking I was in no way ready for a really hard boss fight. Then before I could probably get my rear end kicke,d Arthur to the rescue and now I gotta go back to C when I get up later. I dunno, they keep talking about everything almost being over but I still don't have a clue what's going on. I'm also only Level 40. Do these games typically get you to max level unlike say FF where you can quite handily finish the games while at half that? Also the music in this game is great, it was just the first two sectors that sucked. Since then, it's been a lot of goodness.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:26
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NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, they keep talking about everything almost being over but I still don't have a clue what's going on. I'm also only Level 40. Do these games typically get you to max level unlike say FF where you can quite handily finish the games while at half that? You're a little over halfway through. Endgame level is high 70s/low 80s.
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Dec 29, 2016 14:42
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NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, they keep talking about everything almost being over but I still don't have a clue what's going on. I'm also only Level 40. Do these games typically get you to max level unlike say FF where you can quite handily finish the games while at half that? I don't think it's really a spoiler but your team is making a lot of assumptions about what they need to do; SMT games often feature moving plot goal posts. Strange Journey has some great music and Eridanus's theme is one of my favorite RPG tracks in a long while.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:58
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Eridanus is bad because of the telepads, not because of any ludicrous boss difficulty.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:15
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i vaguely recall the ouroboros fight feeling like there was some luck involved in beating it when i played sj, probably some nutso strong attack she did randomly; that might be why you didn't have much of a problem with that fight
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Dec 29, 2016 18:24
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Bogart posted:Eridanus is bad because of the telepads, not because of any ludicrous boss difficulty. Yep. Blind teleporter puzzles are the opposite of fun.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:28
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NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, they keep talking about everything almost being over but I still don't have a clue what's going on. If you've been paying the slightest bit of attention at all, you probably noticed that every Sector equates to one of the cardinal sins. Antlia is wrath, Bootes is lust, Carina is gluttony, Delphinus is despair (though to be 100% fair here, Delphinus IS the most subtle and clever by far). Eridanus is the 2nd most obvious being pride/vainglory; this is apparent from the instant you enter it. Carina gets the prize for number 1 being obvious from the opening cutscene of the entire game and then outright telling you as much when you meet Horkos. Thanks, Carina! Point here is of course the Red Sprite crew are going to think everything is over at the moment: pride comes before the fall. SJ is a lot of things, but subtle is not one of them. E; Brother Entropy posted:i vaguely recall the ouroboros fight feeling like there was some luck involved in beating it when i played sj, probably some nutso strong attack she did randomly; that might be why you didn't have much of a problem with that fight Gonna let you in on a secret here, spoilered so Nikkolas doesn't see it too soon. Equip a Supple Ring and Disaster Cycle is functionally irrelevant. She has a three attacks not including that one. Hama is a giant whatever, Wave of Death is a decent Physical elemental attack and Wild Thunder is, uh, Electric elemental. Give a Doppelganger Void Elec (Thunderbird's source) and Void Expel (Dominion's source). That's it, you win. Using Tetrakarn/Attack Mirror doesn't work because like all bosses she has a hard-counter for that; if you try it, she just casts Disaster Cycle instead, which DOES do Almighty damage on top of chance to inflict every ailment but it's not enough to be a threat on its own. But Petrify is the only one that matters, because it's an instant kill hence the Supple Ring. Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 18:36
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Despair isn't a deadly sin. I thought Delphinus is sloth since it's the one with conveyor belts.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:55
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Speaking of dungeons, the last dungeon in SMT4:A is sure a thing. Piercing Judgement Light and Toki insta-kills sure did their work, though I would probably feel a lot less charitable towards it if I hadn't gone super heavy magic with JL, Thunder Gods, Deadly Wind and Awakened Power. The aesthetic, though...not a fan.
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Dec 29, 2016 19:01
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Tired Moritz posted:Despair isn't a deadly sin. I thought Delphinus is sloth since it's the one with conveyor belts. In the original list of sins, there are 8 and they are pride, sloth, vainglory, greed, gluttony, wrath, lust and despair. Later on, Pope Gregory I combined pride and vainglory into one thing as he did despair and sloth. He also added envy. Calling it "despair" is a bit of an oversimplification, but tristitia is one of the original eight sins and it means something roughly equivalent to sorrow or despair. Besides, sloth is Grus. Maya spends the entire time chilling out lazily trying to get you to give up with terrible reuse of old designs palette swapped and ""illusions"" and when that doesn't work she doesn't even put up a fight. Plus, uh, y'know, the big major event in Grus comes down to two low-effort options that are both taking an extreme, easy way out of dealing with things. Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 19:03
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Dragonatrix posted:In the original list of sins, there are 8 and they are pride, sloth, vainglory, greed, gluttony, wrath, lust and despair. Later on, Pope Gregory I combined pride and vainglory into one thing as he did despair and sloth. He also added envy. oh I didn't know this... educational.
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Dec 29, 2016 19:11
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Dragonatrix posted:If you've been paying the slightest bit of attention at all, you probably noticed that every Sector equates to one of the cardinal sins. Antlia is wrath, Bootes is lust, Carina is gluttony, Delphinus is despair (though to be 100% fair here, Delphinus IS the most subtle and clever by far). Eridanus is the 2nd most obvious being pride/vainglory; this is apparent from the instant you enter it. Carina gets the prize for number 1 being obvious from the opening cutscene of the entire game and then outright telling you as much when you meet Horkos. Thanks, Carina! Dragonatrix posted:In the original list of sins, there are 8 and they are pride, sloth, vainglory, greed, gluttony, wrath, lust and despair. Later on, Pope Gregory I combined pride and vainglory into one thing as he did despair and sloth. He also added envy. Very informative, thank you. I had of course already picked up on the Sins theme(although I honestly had no clue what D was until now) but it's a bit strange that, despite the superficial trappings and Horkos and maybe Morax,, each boss doesn't strike me as all that representative of their world/sin. Mitra for instance struck me as just plain arrogant. His weird experiments on humans were entirely pointless acts of cruelty that he said were "helping" the humans. And Asura just yammered on about polluting the world and how order sucks and everything was way better back when a single muscly man with a blunt or pointy object could rule the world. I dunno, all I got is that Mastema is cool and helpful and I like him and gently caress Jimenez.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:49
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Mitra was lusting after knowledge. He was gathering information for the sake of gathering information. Bootes is one of the more straightforward ones, really. Asura dwelling on the past and wishing things could go back to how they were, are a pretty major component of despair. He's given up on the present and the future and is only looking backwards, back when things weren't terrible. Despair is a cycle like that, and it's probably a big part of how Delphinus is a giant trash heap shithole. Even the doors don't want to be there any more. Really, the Schwarzwelt itself represents that cycle somewhat too. Ordinarily, after clearing Delphinus you wouldn't get to Eridanus after all... you'd end up right back at the start in Antlia. Which is pretty much the epitome of despair. Delphinus, Eridanus and the entire deal there is probably one of the best written parts of the game and it's well paced outside of writing because Eridanus is the best sector by a mile. NikkolasKing posted:I dunno, all I got is that Mastema is cool and helpful and I like him And this is 100% the right thing, and one of the many, many things that SJ gets wrong. It makes a really good case for Law (hurray!) and does so by giving you one really likable person... and completely ignoring Chaos outside of Jack's Squad. You can see the problem here, I'm sure. Nuance in alignment is never going to be a very good point of the series (though it sometimes gets it right), and the main character representatives are never where you should look for that because they're extreme caricatures most of the time, as you'll have noticed with Zelenin and Jimenez already. Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 22:08
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OK fine, I can buy all of that. So what are Formax and Horologium? Vainglory and pride? And ueah, what happened with Chaos in SJ is terrible. Usually it's the opposite problem with Law being underdeveloped and the other two getting the spotlight... mostly because the devs prefer those two, or the older ones did. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 22:14
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Dragonatrix posted:Mitra was lusting after knowledge. He was gathering information for the sake of gathering information. Bootes is one of the more straightforward ones, really. That's true. I guess I shouldn't default to lust = sex. Before this one poor mook is turned into a monster you have to talk to a bunch of demons and hear how they performed all sorts of hosed up experiments on people with no real care for the results. quote:And this is 100% the right thing, and one of the many, many things that SJ gets wrong. It makes a really good case for Law (hurray!) and does so by giving you one really likable person... and completely ignoring Chaos outside of Jack's Squad. You can see the problem here, I'm sure. Yeah I had already picked up on this. As you say, not subtle but I mean, you have to pick the side that makes the best argument to you. I can't stand Jimenez and Zelenin is nice enough. The problem with Jimenez - or Hudson from Aliens as I like to think of him - is that he's just kind of a little punk. I thought Chaos was strongman survival of the fittest type. You can easily make a charismatic figure whose all about power in a game literally built around power fantasy. But Jimenez is just...well, he's not that. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 22:27
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The thing you are looking for that isn't there is the actual charisma part. They forget to make the Chaos people explain why it's a good idea, and they could have done it by saying stuff like "The cream will rise to the top and eventually a bigger, better humanity will be born through hardship". It is pretty hard to make that sale when you're showing people literal blood and skulls though. Law was up-front about exactly what the theoretical benefits would be.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:50
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Chaos isn't really about making things better though. It's almost universally about freedom taken its most extreme, which includes freedom from rules, freedom from laws and freedom from restrictions. If that leads to disaster and destruction then it's better than the alternative. (I.e: It's "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven") It's always the path of power because you need power to survive and rule in that sort of world.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:36
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This is not so. If you recall SMT1, when you win in the Chaos path Lucifer explicitly talks about how better things will be born as a result. That is an integral part of Chaos, the idea that overcoming adversity brings increased beauty and strength to the survivors and eventually their descendants. This was set up in opposition to Law representing capturing an ideal condition in stasis.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:44
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Speaking of SMTI, would you guys suggest me trying out I and II? I hear SMT2 brought up a decent amount given its age and the fact it was never officially localized. And on that note, is the fan translation good?
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Dec 30, 2016 01:33
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Tallgeese posted:This is not so. If you recall SMT1, when you win in the Chaos path Lucifer explicitly talks about how better things will be born as a result. Lucifer being the one saying that is pretty critical there. It's certainly not that things will be better for everyone but that things will be better for the strong. NikkolasKing posted:Speaking of SMTI, would you guys suggest me trying out I and II? I hear SMT2 brought up a decent amount given its age and the fact it was never officially localized. SMT1 and 2 are... aged. You need a lot of patience.
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Dec 30, 2016 01:38
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NikkolasKing posted:Speaking of SMTI, would you guys suggest me trying out I and II? I hear SMT2 brought up a decent amount given its age and the fact it was never officially localized. The Aeon Genesis ones? No. Not even close. There IS a better retranslation for 1 that does things like "not accidentally render the game unwinnable" and "lets you use shops at the right time" and "translates things" though. As far as I'm aware, there isn't one for 2 but I don't recall that one having any major issues at least, beyond the translation being fairly flat and the usual nakama fansub stuff (mainly for demon races).
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Dec 30, 2016 01:43
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ImpAtom posted:Lucifer being the one saying that is pretty critical there. It's certainly not that things will be better for everyone but that things will be better for the strong. Ah, that is true. All alignments are basically about picking and choosing who gets to die if you get down to brass tacks. As for SMT1 and 2... Dragonatrix posted:As far as I'm aware, there isn't one for 2 but I don't recall that one having any major issues at least, beyond the translation being fairly flat and the usual nakama fansub stuff (mainly for demon races). Heh, I actually brought that up on AG after SMT3 and was needled down for it because the translated names weren't accurate or what have you, I don't quite recall. Never mind that the race names like Daitenshi didn't even fit correctly. The SMT fan translators all have their... quirks, to put it mildly. ---- As for playing the games... I'm gonna be honest. Just read an LP. They have not aged well. You can crush SMT2 by using triple fusion to get Metatron immediately, but it still manages to be a slog. The poster above me did a good one of SMT1, don't recall if he did 2. It's actually a shame because SMT1 actually has reasonable arguments for the alignments for the most part. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 04:42
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At this point most of the unique things SMT 1 and 2 did have been replicated in later games and done better, so I wouldn't really take the time to play them. 1 has the neat thread of starting up right before the obligatory apocalyptic event happens (and having dungeons/fights as part of that), at least. The other mainline games skip to the fallout of those events. If you do play them then both games can be largely trivialized by multi shot guns and status effect ammo (tempted to say charm for SMT1 and petrification in 2). SMT 2 also lets you literally have Cthulhu as a party member 
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Dec 30, 2016 04:55
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Those of you who've played Persona 5 by now: what's the deal with the talking-to-demons stuff this time around? I've avoided too many gameplay videos for fear of spoilers but most of what I've seen has people going to all-out attacks instead of talking. Is it a full-fledged negotiation system like in SMT or Persona 1/2? Also: real, not randomly-generated dungeons? Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 16:41
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It is a full fledged negotiation system that stops mattering after a certain point because you either fill your persona stock quickly or doing levels on Confidants just invalidates certain aspects of it. You can all out attack during any conversation in case you feel it's going South. The main story has actual designed dungeons, but there is still a random generated dungeon and it is plot critical and it's one where a bevy of the game side missions (That you have to do for certain confidants) are. That being said you get through them easily and certain confidants can give you skills which makes it take a lot less time to advance in them. It still sucks and is unfun. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 17:31
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