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No matter how bad cursed child is, it's a) not too smug to bear b) understands characterisation sometimes (scorpius, at least) c) understands basic narrative structure (ish) d) bears some minor relation to how real-world people might talk. Let's not even pretend that they're in the same league. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Dec 24, 2016 |
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Dec 24, 2016 05:36
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Wait did that fake leaked script end up turning out to be the real thing? 
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Dec 24, 2016 06:14
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MikeJF posted:d) bears some minor relation to how real-world people might talk. Haha, no. The other points I'll give you, but just no. A book that contains the line "Oh, my geekiness is a-quivering" does not get that particular point ever.
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Dec 24, 2016 13:29
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Yeah that one was borderline, I'll admit.
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Dec 24, 2016 13:34
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Cursed Child was that bad huh? I never bothered to read it.
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Dec 24, 2016 15:36
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Cursed Child was that bad huh? I never bothered to read it. True, it's seems. Granted I never read it, but I accidentally clicked on some MoR spoilers here and, well.... As bad as Cursed Child is, it did not kill off Hermione and make Bellatrix a brain damaged ongoing death eater gang rape victim like MoR apparently did. Like, the characters are already pre built. How badly do you screw it up? At this point I don't blame OP for taking an eternal hiatus. Goodness knows you'll need that to recuperate your poor soul. Some fanfics can be a fun read, but a lot of them, especially a lot of them, are just bad garbage that don't treat people well. I guess I shouldn't be surprised when people like Elizarry misuse female characters. They are assholes bad at writing.
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Dec 24, 2016 19:59
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 http://argumate.tumblr.com/post/114122957199/i-think-ive-been-talking-about-hpmor-too-much
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Dec 26, 2016 13:36
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 Chapter 18: Dominance Hierarchies HPMOR relentlessly follows what TV Tropes calls "The Stations of the Canon". Every major event of the first Harry Potter book is replicated with a bunch of new material crammed in, because this is fanfiction and longer equals better. When we left off, we had just passed the First Potions Class. Harriezer responded to mild provocation by threatening to run away, and then abused two magical artifacts to try to avoid consequences. Of course you can't evade social consequences by turning invisible, so he ends up in front of the Headmaster anyway. Only at this point does he call out Snape with legitimate performance complaints, but that's been completely undermined since it looks like a cover for his own bad behavior. We resume: HPMOR posted:Severus was giving her a look of utter contempt. Minerva raised her chin and bore it. She knew it was deserved. Oh, god. In this fic, Dumbledore, Snape, Harry and Voldemort are Serious People doing Serious Things and everyone else is a disappointing pawn. Minerva and Hermione tend to catch the worst of it, with entire sections dedicated to how foolish they are. I don't think it's intended to be sexist, but that's certainly how it comes off. They enter a long and boring negotiation, with Harry threatening to run away if things don't go his way and Dumbledore humoring him out of seeming madness. A compromise is struck; Snape will be less abusive, and he and Harry will both apologize for acting like idiots. quote:"I think, Professor McGonagall, that you considerably overestimate the importance of what you call school discipline, as compared to having History taught by a live teacher or not torturing your students. Maintaining the current status hierarchy and enforcing its rules seems ever so much more wise and moral and important when you are on the top and doing the enforcing than when you are on the bottom, and I can cite studies to this effect if required. I could go on for several hours about this point, but I will leave it at that."  Does everyone see how much smarter and wiser Harriezer is then that old fuddypants McGonagall? Has it been drilled into your head hard enough?Yud almost has a good point here. Society does contain a lot of arbitrary rules and practices which solely exist to maintain the authority of those already in charge. People with ASD especially have trouble accepting rules that have no practical purpose. As we have seen with the Civil Rights movement or the Stonewall Riots, sometimes authority must be visibly defied before anything will change. Except, of course, an authentic idealist won't start a revolution just to duck personal responsibility. Of course, this common sense is just too much for Minerva. quote:Minerva rose from her chair and almost fell. There was too much adrenaline in her blood, her heart was beating too fast. People with heart conditions should consult their doctor before listening to Harriezer.  Dumbledore lends her Fawkes so her delicate dumb lady constitution doesn't give out while she hands out Harry's punishment. quote:When she stood up she found it hard to speak. But she had to ask. "What happened today, Harry?" A rare moment of actual humility from our lead - conveniently timed to happen right before a punishment he can't wiggle out of. That is, the sensible action that should already have been taken of limiting his Time-Turner use. He can only use it in the evenings, and they'll do spot checks to make sure he's only using two turns a day. quote:"Mr. Potter," she said gently, "there are students who cannot be entrusted with Time-Turners, because they become addicted to them. We give them a potion which lengthens their sleep cycle by the necessary amount, but they end up using the Time-Turner for more than just attending their classes. And so we must take them back. Mr. Potter, you have taken to using the Time-Turner as your solution to everything, often very foolishly so. You used it to get back a Remembrall. You vanished from a closet in a fashion apparent to other students, instead of going back after you were out and getting me or someone else to come and open the door." Harriezer, powerful and creative enough to convince half the school he's a reality warper though snapping, but blind to the obvious consequences of abusing his power. Our hero. Once again, if you have a potion which can alter sleep cycles, why do you not just use that instead of the dangerous, addictive artifact? There's something to be said when the author realizes the intellectual laziness of his character for abusing a power, but doesn't realize his own intellectual laziness of doing the exact same thing. Harry whines and cries about this, despite being told that Dumbledore is taking the heat for the blatant crimes Harriezer committed. quote:"I'm, sorry," he whispered, voice now choked and broken. "I'm sorry, to have, disappointed you..." I thought you'd all enjoy the rare moments of Harriezer in misery. You're a bum, Harry. You need to get off the juice, it's eating you up. Anyway, Harry seems to have had a revelation. He realizes how much his wild actions are creating problems, he feels remorse and a need for reflection. He gets up in front of the school and delivers his apology without a hint of snideness or sarcasm. Maybe we're seeing some growth from this char... quote:Until Harry raised his hand. Never loving mind. 
Added Space fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2016 22:28
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Added Space posted:Yud almost has a good point here. quote:There's something to be said when the author realizes the intellectual laziness of his character for abusing a power, but doesn't realize his own intellectual laziness of doing the exact same thing.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:04
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Hmm, yes. The entitled twat who has been causing non-stop disturbances and breaking rules constantly while being a smug poo poo about it all is in no need of rules and structure to instill discipline, unlike the lesser children. Go on, Professor McGonagall, tell me more of your revolutionary teaching technique!
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Dec 29, 2016 00:40
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Oh hey welcome back!Added Space posted:Oh, god. In this fic, Dumbledore, Snape, Harry and Voldemort are Serious People doing Serious Things and everyone else is a disappointing pawn. Minerva and Hermione tend to catch the worst of it, with entire sections dedicated to how foolish they are. I don't think it's intended to be sexist, but that's certainly how it comes off. Between this, the "I'm gonna rape her" bit on the train, and the part way later in the thing where Quirrelmort rattles off MRA talking points at a few of the female teachers while they observe the eleven-year-old equivalent of a feminist protest, it's pretty goddamn obvious that Big Yud has little to no respect for women as people. Much like a lot of pseudo-intellectuals, really.
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Dec 29, 2016 04:44
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inflatablefish posted:This is true of quite a lot of this fic. He spots something odd or incongruous, but he just can't help filtering it through his sense of superiority. Spotting something that appears odd and saying 'lol this is dumb' is a really bad way to go about things in general, but is particularly bad when writing fanfics. Much like when writing a sequel, you should pretend that the original work was better than it was. As an example, I particularly like how house elves ended up getting handled in this fic. quote:"How'd the interrogation go?" said the Rupert. "I hope you didn't cause an interspecies incident."
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Dec 29, 2016 05:09
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Tunicate posted:Spotting something that appears odd and saying 'lol this is dumb' is a really bad way to go about things in general, but is particularly bad when writing fanfics. *reads quote* *clicks link* ...okay, I'm really tempted to read this. Can you recommend this at all, or is this just a good moment from a bad fic?
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Dec 29, 2016 05:16
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Vateke posted:*reads quote* It's basically all like that. The author is very up-front about the whole fic being incredibly self-indulgent, but fortunately this sort of thing just happens to be the sort of stuff he really likes to write. There really isn't a strong through-line for the plot overall, but it's drifting in an interesting direction, and it's more about the whimsy and digressions than anything else. Sort of the polar opposite of HPMOR in that the 'smart' guy is intensely curious and empathetic. Overall, the fic is extremely different from what you'd expect the premise to be on a two-sentence summary. Tunicate fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 05:37
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If you meet a house elf on the road, kill him.
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Dec 29, 2016 07:10
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Chapter 19: Delayed Gratification This is one of the more infamous chapters for containing an extended scene of child abuse. I have no idea what the author was trying to accomplish with this scene, but I'll be leaving out that part when we get to it. We instead start on the deep ~*political intrigue*~ of eleven year olds that HPMOR is known for. HPMOR posted:Draco had a stern expression on his face, and his green-trimmed robes somehow looked far more formal, serious, and well-turned-out than the same exact robes as worn by the two boys behind him. Comedy! Laugh, drat you! quote:Harry was hoping that this class would be non-stressful, and that the brilliant Professor Quirrell would realize this was perhaps not the best time to single out Harry for anything. Harry had recovered a little, but... Oh yeah, I'm sure you're beaten up. That prank you pulled in front of the whole school really shows how much this situation has been weighing on you. Also, foreshadowing! Draco corners Harriezer before the super edgy Battle Magic class to try to get him to say what dirt he had on Snape. Harry postures for a bit before saying anything. quote:"Anyway," Harry said. "Trade. I tell you a fact that isn't on the grapevine, and does not go on the grapevine, and in particular does not go to your father, and in return you tell me what you and Slytherin think about the whole business." Draco's end of the bargin is that Slytherin came to the same conclusion, that Harry had some moderately good blackmail material on Dumbledore. The idea that it was an extremely undramatic example of 'I'm holding myself hostage!' doesn't occur to Draco, which is probably to his credit. Draco is a least smart enough to realize that Harriezer can barely be trusted to tie his own shoes. quote:"Harry," Draco said, "you've obviously got incredible talent, but you've got no training and no mentors and you do stupid things sometimes and you really need an advisor who knows how to do this or you're going to get hurt! " Draco's face was fierce. Remember everybody, telling people that you want to be their friends so that you can manipulate them is the height of subterfuge. And Draco's first wonderful piece of political advice? quote:"Push your mudblood rival Granger into a wall or something, everyone in Slytherin will know what that means -" Thank goodness Quirrell shows up or nothing would stop this brain trust from taking over the world. Battle Magic was going to start with shielding, but instead we have a Very Special Lesson plan. Quirrell goes on about he made an Evil Overlord List as a young Slytherin, and pesters Draco a bit before turning to Harry. quote:Harry giggled before he could stop himself. I'm not sure the point about Hitler would work in either continuity. In our world Hitler got in the most trouble fighting Russia, and fighting Russia was most of the point of his rise to power. In the HPMOR continuity I'm fairly sure Hitler was a puppet of Grindelwald who was using the Holocaust to fuel his own power. In any case, this lesson for every first year student in Hogwarts has now been hijacked in order to teach HP a lesson. Instead of reciting the abuse, I'll settle for listing the ways this is similar to cult behavior. Quirrell has isolated Harriezer and held up him for public scrutiny as an example, a cult staple. We take a brief pause as Goyle and Quirrell have a kung fu fight, in which Quirrell takes a dive and begs for mercy. There was apparently a point to this. quote:"The vitally important technique which I demonstrated," said Professor Quirrell, "was how to lose. You may go, Mr. Goyle, thank you." Now I know this is Hogwarts where students routinely get sent to the nurse for pranks gone wrong, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to actively teach children not to kill each other. Or, if you do, the rest of your coursework is questionable. This leads us to cult point number two, making your cult members afraid that any one of them could turn and hurt the others, and therefore everyone has to surrender power to the leadership for their own safety. Quirrell spins a tale of how he trained in the mystic ways of kung fu in the far east. quote:"I learned how to lose in a dojo in Asia, which, as any Muggle knows, is where all the good martial artists live." More of the Big Yud signature racial sensitivity. One day he got angry and took a swing in anger at a sparring partner. The head of the dojo told him to stand still and let all the other students take swings at him while he begged for mercy. FORESHADOWING. He says he took the lesson to heart, but by total coincidence Voldemort rolls up six months later to torture and kill everyone there. This leads us to our somewhat true lesson for the chapter. quote:"Understand that the Dark Lord did not win that day. His goal was to learn martial arts, and yet he left without a single lesson. The Dark Lord was foolish to wish that story retold. It did not show his strength, but rather an exploitable weakness." Anger is a weapon that turns on the wielder, kids. Unless of course you're smart enough that none can hold you accountable, then you're free to indulge. quote:"What you demonstrated today, Mr. Potter, is that - unlike those animals who keep their claws sheathed and accept the results - you do not know how to lose a dominance contest. When a Hogwarts professor challenged you, you did not back down. When it looked like you might lose, you unsheathed your claws, heedless of the danger. You escalated, and then you escalated again. It started with a slap at you from Professor Snape, who was obviously dominant over you. Instead of losing, you slapped back and lost ten points from Ravenclaw. Soon you were talking about leaving Hogwarts. The fact that you escalated even further in some unknown direction, and somehow won at the end, does not change the fact that you are an idiot." And other one for Quirrell. Harry had some valid points, but lacked any kind of wisdom for when and how he should have made that confrontation. When an authority figure has you dead to rights, you bow your head and wait for a safer time to respond. The ritual 'surrender' in this case was supposed to be Harriezer's public apology, but he quite obviously hosed that up and showed he had no awareness of these social conventions. This is certainly a lesson Harriezer needs to learn, but what actually happens is just about the worst possible venue and method. Quirrell starts dropping heavy hints that Harry is now due for a public beatdown. The boy once again tries to evade the consequences of his bad decisions by delaying or stopping things before they happen, but this time I'm on his side. Quirrell browbeats him into accepting by playing on Harriezer's paranoia about his Evil Within. The professor then calls for volunteers from the audience. quote:"{D}o any of you wish to show your dominance over the Boy-Who-Lived? Shove him around, push him to the ground, hear him beg for your mercy?" We're on to another cult facet here. Cult leaders rarely punish followers with their own hands; this risks the lower ranks having common cause to rally against their superiors. Instead, leaders get members of the lower ranks to dole out punishments. This keeps them divided by fear and guilt, while the leadership claims benevolence. Draco tries to show unity by volunteering to stand next to Harriezer, but Quirrell brushes this off. Harry is then beaten up by a group of older students while his peers watch in enforced silence. Public corporeal punishment is another clear cult practice and I refuse to repeat even a single line of this part. Enough to say it goes on far too long. Draco steps up after the beating to condemn the volunteers as thugs. That rings extremely hollow from the guy who suggested 'push a girl into a wall' not too long ago. We come to the denouement. quote:"Will you remember how you lost?"  Here we get to the true evil of cults. After the violence and coercion, get everyone to express positive feelings about their torment and how it was deep and meaningful.quote:"Your extraordinary achievement in my class deserves an extraordinary reward, Harry Potter. Please accept it with my compliments on behalf of my House, and remember from this day forward that not all Slytherins are alike. There are Slytherins, and then there are Slytherins." Professor Quirrell was smiling quite broadly as he said this. "Fifty-one points to Ravenclaw." Even when she's not in the room, we can't forget to take a big dump on McGonagall. Undermining traditional authority and promising great rewards if you obey, welcome to the cult of Quirrellmort, praise be to Slytherin. Harry gets a break and some snacks, and the rest of the class somehow still has enough class time to learn basic shields. Added Space fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2016 07:26
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How racist does the kung fu section get, and how Orientalist is his depiction of the 'Far East'? I'm guessing it's real bad 
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Dec 29, 2016 08:01
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So basically, Yud was spoiled rotten (literally) by his parents, and being quite satisfied with the creature he turned out to be, he now believes that is exactly the best way to treat "precocious" children. Also, I wonder how many of Harriezer's techniques for influencing people he actually used in establishing his own little cult.
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Dec 29, 2016 09:50
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quote:"But no. The first item was, 'I will not go around provoking strong, vicious enemies.' The history of the world would be very different if Mornelithe Falconsbane or Hitler had grasped that elementary point. Now if, Mr. Potter - just if by some chance you harbor an ambition similar to the one I held as a young Slytherin - even so, I hope it is not your ambition to become a stupid Dark Lord." Mornelithe Falconsbane is from a Mercedes Lackey trilogy of fantasy novels. His defining feature is he looks like a cat-man and had a daughter that he magically turned into a sexy catgirl for him to gently caress. I wonder if Eliezer didn't read those novels either and just picked poo poo up from fanfic too.
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Dec 29, 2016 12:35
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MorgaineDax posted:Mornelithe Falconsbane is from a Mercedes Lackey trilogy of fantasy novels. His defining feature is he looks like a cat-man and had a daughter that he magically turned into a sexy catgirl for him to gently caress. well ok he probably went straight to the fanfic for efficiency.
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Dec 29, 2016 12:42
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stone cold posted:How racist does the kung fu section get, and how Orientalist is his depiction of the 'Far East'? I'm the one who added 'kung fu'. His reference is "I learned how to lose in a dojo in Asia, which, as any Muggle knows, is where all the good martial artists live." The word 'dojo' does originate from China, but only seems to mean 'martial arts training facility' in Japan. I actually mentally edited out the second half of that sentence or else I should have included it on the first pass. Added Space fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 13:29
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Tunicate posted:Spotting something that appears odd and saying 'lol this is dumb' is a really bad way to go about things in general, but is particularly bad when writing fanfics. quote:As an example, I particularly like how house elves ended up getting handled in this fic.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:44
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Added Space posted:I'm the one who added 'kung fu'. His reference is "I learned how to lose in a dojo in Asia, which, as any Muggle knows, is where all the good martial artists live." Grim. And I suppose big yud only knows of East Asian martial arts when he refers to Asia too. Also, hate to nitpick but the more correct Chinese equivalent would be "武館" whereas dojo in Chinese has more of a religious (Daoist) connotation.
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Dec 29, 2016 22:41
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Chapter 20: Bayes's Theorem This chapter consists almost entirely of 'clever' dialogue between Quirrellmort and Harriezer. Given that Yud seems to have religious reverence for Bayes, I can only assume that this sort of somewhat intelligent wordplay is a favorite topic in his writing. Harry is still on break after last chapter and seems to still be on an emotional high. quote:Funny how Harry's brain just seemed to keep on running and running, never shutting down no matter how tired it got. It got stupider but it refused to switch off. I'm going to be charitable and say that this is a good example of actual manipulation in practice. Quirrell is toying with Harry's emotions to earn his trust, and we'll see that manipulation pay huge dividends in later chapters. You can say from a reader's perspective that this is incredibly obvious and evil, but intelligent people in the real world do fall for these kind of techniques with depressing frequency. In relation to Bayes, you could say that Harry lacked the correct priors to evaluate Quirrell's story. If you knew that he was also Voldemort the pattern of vengeance and knowledge hoarding would be clear. Harry is looking for validation that he is not evil, which Quirrell does not want to provide. Being happy and forgiving his tormentors after enduring a beating is too abnormal to be anything but an act, Quirrell claims. He approves of Harry wanting to win approval and gain power, but he should at least be honest with himself. Harryiezer has a different explanation. quote:"Actually, I think I know what's confusing you here," Harry said. "That was what I wanted to talk to you about, in fact. Professor Quirrell, I think that what you're seeing is my mysterious dark side." Quirrellmort is only slightly surprised to have a student tell him of their barely restrained schizophrenia and resolves that the best solution is to train these murderous impulses. Obviously, Harry is really a Slytherin who secretly wants to a dark lord. The hat's prank must have been Dumbledore interfering. Here, it's Quirrell's turn to be missing information and come to a wrong conclusion. quote:"The Sorting Hat did seem to think I was going to end up as a Dark Lord unless I went to Hufflepuff," Harry said. "But I don't want to be one." That's a fairly decent replacement for the "There is only power, and those too weak to seek it" line. Quirrellmort thinks Harriezer is operating on a naive, authoritarian morality. Harriezer accuses the professor of naked egocentrism while taking a dig at Ayn Rand. Harry holds up both sets of his parents as good people who would be betrayed if he turned to evil. quote:"In any case, Mr. Potter, you have not answered my original question," said Professor Quirrell finally. "What is your ambition?" In the course of one conversation Harry has openly announced he has an evil side he can't control and a god complex. He doesn't even have the excuse of being a teenager. This is a massively mentally unstable child. Hey Harriezer, what are the priors on people who openly announce they want to obtain ultimate power? I'm guessing they are not very favorable. This only underlines the lead's self-serving hypocrisy. Quirrell hates scientists for creating the means of mass destruction and then telling other people. Dangerous knowledge should be kept secret. quote:"Yes, nuclear weapons!" Professor Quirrell was almost shouting now. "Even He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named never used those, perhaps because he didn't want to rule over a heap of ash! They never should have been made! And it will only get worse with time!" Professor Quirrell was standing up straight instead of leaning on his desk. "There are gates you do not open, there are seals you do not breach! The fools who can't resist meddling are killed by the lesser perils early on, and the survivors all know that there are secrets you do not share with anyone who lacks the intelligence and the discipline to discover them for themselves! Every powerful wizard knows that! Even the most terrible Dark Wizards know that! And those idiot Muggles can't seem to figure it out! The eager little fools who discovered the secret of nuclear weapons didn't keep it to themselves, they told their fool politicians and now we must live under the constant threat of annihilation!" This represents a critical misunderstanding of how the scientific process operates. The time of individuals making significant new discoveries on their own has been over for centuries. This 'secret club' mentality would bring the discovery rate of those who followed it to a grinding halt, which would quickly make them irrelevant. This is also the central theme of this entire work. Hand over agency to people who know more than you because they can make better decisions than you can. Dumb sheeple who raise their voices are only wasting the time of the philosopher-kings and endangering themselves. The only difference between Harriezer and Quirrellmort is that Harry is collectivist and Voldemort is individualist. Since they're meant to be foils of each other, this means the central conflict can be phrased as the question 'Should I care about the stupid, annoying meat sacks around me?' Harry's uplifting response can be paraphrased as "Yes, because amid all this dross there's a few flakes of gold and that's what really matters." This sort of conflict has been present in many great works of literature, including Harry Potter. Although not openly addressed, the question of why Harry is standing up for such a corrupt society looms large over Deathly Hallows. However, the answer is certainly not the paternalistic, misanthropic bilge that HPMOR advocates. Quirrell does calm down a bit and announces that he approves of space travel so that wizards can get away from the rest of humanity. This is the plot of the harem/fighting anime Negima. I'm not sure if this is a reference, or just coincidence since that story also borrows from Harry Potter. He even has a space-viewing spell he likes to cast. quote:Harry stood on a small circle of white marble in the midst of an endless field of stars, burning terribly bright and unwavering. There was no Earth, no Moon, no Sun that Harry recognized. Professor Quirrell stood in the same place as before, floating in the midst of the starfield. The Milky Way was already visible as a great wash of light and it grew brighter as Harry's vision adjusted to the darkness. I know people have all sorts of weird religious experiences, which can include looking up at the night sky, but this degree of reverence seems odd. I'm struck with an image of Harriezer at a young age nearly passing out at a planetarium on a school field trip and then biting his teacher when told it was time to leave. Then again, maybe it's fitting that Harry's greatest moment of joy is being isolated far away from people he doesn't respect (nearly everyone). The thought of this prick trapped in deep space brings me a little joy too. This is interrupted when Dumbledore busts in demanding to know why a professor organized a public beating of a minor. Harry and Quirrell are quick to defend the act since it all worked out. This is evidenced by Harry being able to hold his tongue after a stern warning to be respectful. Wonders never cease. quote:Professor Quirrell nodded. "He wasn't expecting (51 house points), but it seemed appropriate. Tell Professor McGonagall that I think the story of what Mr. Potter went through to earn back the lost points will do just as well to make her point. No, Headmaster, Mr. Potter didn't tell me anything. It's easy to see which part of today's events are her work," God drat, do you really need to insult McGonagall again? Can anyone tell me why the author has a vendetta against this character? She's been nothing but reasonable. Dumbledore does a quick bit of mind reading to double check that Harriezer hasn't been whammied, and Quirrellmort takes the opportunity to call this out as a dick move. quote:"You have now made it more difficult to confirm his mental privacy on future occasions," Dumbledore said. He favored Professor Quirrell with a cold look. "Was that your intention, I wonder?" Continuity! "The events of this morning" were Harry getting into a fight with Snape and being called to the Headmaster's office. I don't know how that creates a need for Harry to be able to keep secrets. Harriezer's stupid and unworkable plans to overthrow wizarding society are a slightly better justification, but not by much. I'm not even sure why Quirrelmort wants this since he eventually wants Harriezer dead. I suppose he wants to milk any discoveries Harriezer makes this year without Dumbledore getting them as well, but this only makes it harder for him to get that information. This entire plot development makes no sense. Perhaps it's only a gambit to earn more trust since Harriezer announces Quirrell as his mentor. Dumbledore mentions the Defense position curse, but that is quickly waved off. Dumbledore leaves and they go back to discussing space. quote:"I subscribe to a Muggle bulletin which keeps me informed of progress on space travel. I didn't hear about Pioneer 10 until they reported its launch. But when I discovered that Pioneer 11 would also be leaving the Solar System forever," Professor Quirrell said, his grin the widest that Harry had yet seen from him, "I snuck into NASA, I did, and I cast a lovely little spell on that lovely golden plaque which will make it last a lot longer than it otherwise would." Estimates say that Pioneer's golden plaque and Voyager's golden record will last between one million and one billion years. How the hell would you determine that magic would increase that number? This is a great opportunity to expand on the 'scientific investigation of magic' promise of the story, but this gets completely ignored. Harry is far too starstruck to question this and rains compliments on Quirrell. quote:A further thought occurred to Harry. "You didn't add any extra information to the plaque, did you?" I'm totally not a murderer, kid.  This highlights a major problem with the writing. The author has slipped him a note about what a Horcrux is, so Harriezer comes up with the idea out of the pure blue sky. He eventually finds out about the nature of Horcruxes. As an exercise, try to guess how long it takes him to demonstrate intelligence by combining this insight with that information and realize that Quirrellmort is a psychopathic killer. Harry drops a few more compliments and then leaves, ending the chapter. Added Space fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2016 23:14
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I'm guessing Big Yud is a big ol' sexist. 
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Dec 29, 2016 23:24
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Added Space posted:I don't know how that creates a need for Harry to be able to keep secrets. Harriezer's stupid and unworkable plans to overthrow wizarding society are a slightly better justification, but not by much. I'm not even sure why Quirrelmort wants this since he eventually wants Harriezer dead. I suppose he wants to milk any discoveries Harriezer makes this year without Dumbledore getting them as well, but this only makes it harder for him to get that information. This entire plot development makes no sense. Nah, actually this bit does make sense if you do read it the way the rest of the text around it intends. Read it instead as: quote:"There are gates you do not open, there are seals you do not breach! The fools who can't resist meddling are killed by the lesser perils early on, and the survivors all know that there are secrets you do not share with anyone who lacks the intelligence and the discipline to discover them for themselves! Every powerful wizard knows that! Even the most terrible Dark Wizards know that! And those idiot Muggles can't seem to figure it out! The eager little fools who discovered the secret of nuclear weapons didn't keep it to themselves, they told their fool politicians and now we must live under the constant threat of annihilation!" It's meant to be the cliche of "you want what, but that's insane! <second character does thing that makes it obvious why thing is preferred> ..ah." but it falls flat because the two bits are too far apart to make a proper gag, and the second bit isn't telegraphed enough. e: also your skipping of random bits of text make it really hard to follow the text, as someone who's sadly read it before but luckily long enough ago that he's forgotten the majority of it.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:34
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Red Mike posted:It's meant to be the cliche of "you want what, but that's insane! <second character does thing that makes it obvious why thing is preferred> ..ah." but it falls flat because the two bits are too far apart to make a proper gag, and the second bit isn't telegraphed enough. I get the part about forbidden knowledge, but why does Quirrell care? He has to know Harry's plans are unworkable, if for no other reason than he's already exploited them to the maximum feasible extent. I'm summarizing blocks of text in order to avoid the whole line-by-line quagmire that drove off the OP.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:53
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The great thing about Bayes and the Bayesian Conspiracy in HPMOR is that at no point does he explain what the gently caress it is, even slightly. But then, "Bayesian" in practice seems to mean "agrees with the MIRI line on things and AI is a vastly better charity than mosquito nets."
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Dec 30, 2016 01:25
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stone cold posted:I'm guessing Big Yud is a big ol' sexist. I'd ask how he ~logically~ justifies that, but he'd probably just pull some  bullshit out of his rear end.
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Dec 30, 2016 03:27
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divabot posted:The great thing about Bayes and the Bayesian Conspiracy in HPMOR is that at no point does he explain what the gently caress it is, even slightly. But then, "Bayesian" in practice seems to mean "agrees with the MIRI line on things and AI is a vastly better charity than mosquito nets." Isn't it that there's some knowledge that can't be shared because it's ~too dangerous~ And I think that's about the long and the short of his conspiracy.
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Dec 30, 2016 03:38
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oh nice, there's a thread for this. I listened to the audio version of a bunch of this when I had a night shift job after I discovered listening to things that were cringey or enraging made the time go faster. Have we got to the bit where harry becomes Chaos general of some kind of inter-house war and wins battles through being lolrandom? Its the cringiest thing ever.
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Dec 30, 2016 03:45
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Hogwarts Battle School does that bit so much better it's insulting. I wish the author would update more/at all though.
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Dec 30, 2016 03:47
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nopantsjack posted:Have we got to the bit where harry becomes Chaos general of some kind of inter-house war and wins battles through being lolrandom? Its the cringiest thing ever.
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Dec 30, 2016 05:16
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I am willing to defend parts of this story (death of the author!) but even I cannot loving stand the war games.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:02
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There's an audio version? Is it done by someone good because I'm imaging Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons doing it.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:19
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Vateke posted:*reads quote* Wow, the linked fic really is negaverse MOR. You need a decent stomach for twee, but it's a really charming read, where the smart, eccentric protagonist wants nothing more than to have fun with the world he's found himself in and bring the best out of the people around him so they can have nice, fun lives too. Certainly haven't read many Harry Potter stories with that level of empathy for Argus Filch, for a start.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:56
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MorgaineDax posted:There's an audio version? Is it done by someone good because I'm imaging Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons doing it. When a fic becomes popular enough, or is well written enough to warrant it, there are fans who do audio recordings of reading the fic. These are called 'podfic' and have their own tag on A3O: http://archiveofourown.org/works/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&work_search%5Bquery%5D=podfic I have no idea the quality of them. Probably varying due to mike quality, voice acting and whether they're pleasant to listen to, and so forth. I'm not surprised someone would make a podfic of this fic considering the size of both communities. The one making the recording would also gain some personal fame/attention for assisting the fic author so there's appeal in making podfics. There's also bonus hilarity when someone makes podfics of blatantly racist or phobic fanfics. Like how do you read these things aloud and not realize how goddamn racist some stories are? But that's a bone to chew on some other time. It would be funny if someone recorded MoR out loud and slowly came to the realization of how douche this version of harry potter is. I remember in the marvel fandom on tumblr there was one young woman who had taken a podfic on the train and didn't plug their headphones into their phone all the way so the speakers half broadcast it while still channeling it through the headphones. It was a NSFW podfic so by the time the erotica started someone had to tap them on the shoulder and let them know everyone else on the train [bus?] could hear her gay erotica. I think it was bucky barnes / steve rogers but could have been thor / loki.
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Dec 31, 2016 02:30
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Dec 31, 2016 02:42
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Oh my bad. I miscalled it as it was about three or four years ago. Well I assure you, podfics are a thing and people make recordings of poo poo they like. At least I was wrong about it being incest!quote:thorgasmed: http://emilianadarling.tumblr.com/post/85009828751/consultingmoosecaptain-sofarfromshameless
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Dec 31, 2016 03:07
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| # ? May 17, 2024 13:48 |
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Chapter 21: Rationalization This chapter is intended as a wrap up of the first twenty chapters and the first week at Hogwarts. As with the rest of the fic this goes on for far too long. We start with Hermoine, who we really haven't seen for a while. HPMOR posted:Hermione Granger had worried she was turning Bad. ... OK, this isn't TOO bad. Her moral philosophy really isn't any less sophisticated then Harriezer; he just uses a lot more psychobabble. She's smart, competitive, straightlaced, and she's got moral awareness. Her thoughts are a bit simplistic, but she's eleven. I'm approving of this Hermione and her entirely correct desire to show up that jerk. She marinates a bit more before coming to a conclusion. quote:She and Harry were getting into a Romance! Of course! Everyone knew what it meant when a boy and a girl started fighting all the time. They were courting one another! There was nothing Bad about that. Danger! DANGER! In case you've forgotten, Harry and Hermoine made a bet on the Hogwarts Express that Harry could read more books in a week, and that bet is coming due. quote:Ten seconds left, and he still hadn't raised his hand. You go Hermione! Teach that little poo poo a lesson! Harry even thinks about how he used his Time Turner to cheat and he still lost, thus proving that he has listened to no-one else this whole time. quote:"Someday," said the Boy-Who-Lived, "when the distant descendants of Homo sapiens are looking back over the history of the galaxy and wondering how it all went so wrong, they will conclude that the original mistake was when someone taught Hermione Granger how to read."  The happy trail of misogyny just keeps rollin' along. No wonder JWKS was forced to stop, this poo poo just keeps getting worse.The rest of the Ravenclaw girls team up to demand a forfeit for losing the bet. Scene change to the dungeons three hours later, where Harry is meeting up with Draco. quote:"I want you to know, Draco Malfoy," said the silhouette in tones of deadly calm, "that I do not blame you for my recent defeat." Some credit, Yud can sneak in foreshadowing in nonobvious ways. "The news had spread faster than owls could have carried it" is literally true, and it will become a plot point later. It's nicely buried in the humor here so you don't think about it too much. quote:"Spread the word in Slytherin that the Granger girl is mine and anyone who meddles in my affairs will have their remains scattered over an area wide enough to include twelve different spoken languages. And since I am not in Gryffindor and I use cunning rather than immediate frontal attacks, they should not panic if I am seen smiling at her." If you can bring yourself to ignore the one little poo poo nugget about not teaching women to read (and to be fair, you're reading fanfiction, your standards are not that high) this first act of the chapter works fairly well as a light comedy and character piece. The second act is also comedy, but not quite for the same reasons. Harriezer and Draco have decided to follow Quirrellmort's advice and start their own Secret Club of Magical Science. quote:"I offer you power," said the shadowy figure, "and I will tell you of that power and its price. The power comes from knowing the shape of reality and so gaining control over it. What you understand, you can command, and that is power enough to walk upon the Moon. The price of that power is that you must learn to ask questions of Nature, and far more difficult, accept Nature's answers. You will do experiments, perform tests and see what happens. And you must accept the meaning of those results when they tell you that you are mistaken. You will have to learn how to lose, not to me, but to Nature. When you find yourself arguing with reality, you will have to let reality win. You will find this painful, Draco Malfoy, and I do not know if you are strong in that way. Knowing the price, is it still your wish to learn the human power?" I tend to agree. One of my personal peeves is people who can't tell the difference between fact and opinion. Harriezer starts offering study courses. The first is about psychology and I can only presume that course is the titular Methods of Rationality. On the one hand, thank loving god that we won't have to sit through them. On the other hand, that's the name of the fic and the author should have committed to the premise if that's what he really wants to talk about. The second course is physics, which even Harriezer realizes is pointless because Draco doesn't know calculus. The third course is genetics, and that's a winner for blood purist Draco. quote:The figure nodded. "I thought you might say as much. But I think it will be the most painful path for you, Draco. What if your family and friends, the blood purists, say one thing, and you find that the experimental test says another?" It's not like either side is wrong. As we see from the modern climate change debate, political truths are far removed from anything as banal as data.Draco and Harriezer have a back and forth about trusting experiments and whether Harry is going to lie, but eventually Draco caves. quote:"Excellent," said the figure, and smiled. "Congratulations on being willing to ask the question." As long as it's one of those bossy, mean girls.  Draco asks if they can just skip to what's already known, but Harriezer invokes the fear of dangerous secrets and tells Draco he has to prove himself by running some experiments on his own first. Second order of business for Secret Science Club, better costumes. quote:"We're going to need better robes," said the shadowy figure, "with hoods and so on -" Isn't that the name of Yud's not-a-cult? There's some serious mixed messages here. Do you want to create a science cult that keeps its findings secret, or do you want to uplift the unwashed masses through Rationality? Do you only want to do the latter until the former becomes an option? What are you trying to accomplish, Mr. Yudkowsky? There's an interlude where Harry returns to his dorm room and finds a present. quote:This revealed a note, two golden Galleons, and a book titled Occlumency: The Hidden Arte. I don't think it's ever fully revealed who sent this note. It might be Dumbledore, who does a lot of of seemingly random things for reasons that are explained later. It may be Peter Pettigrew, who in this fic has swapped roles with Sirius Black for no real reason. Harry himself realizes the pointlessness of this scene and falls asleep. The next morning in the Great Hall, Harriezer is wary of the Weasley twins approaching, but they're just giving him a cake with twelve candles for some reason. quote:"That's not right," said someone. "Harry Potter was born on the thirty-first of Jul-" The prophecy is totally about Harry and his stupid little club. Harry jumps to the next conclusion, Voldemort. We the reader know he's already there too, so that's just a mystery for now. The chapter ends with Harry considering what to write home about. quote:Harry stared down at the blank sheet of paper. Let's see... As usual, this writing needs to be ruthlessly cut down by a chainsaw-wielding editor, but this is certainly one of the better chapters. Comedy, childish intrigue, and a fresh mystery. Added Space fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2016 04:58
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