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floydpepper
Nov 7, 2004

"It Don't Make You A Bad Person"
I ended up getting the $25 pack. It's pretty fun right now just slashing everything to death.
I'll never be more than casual, but I still want to get into nodes and crafting.
So much to read on it.

Anyone have a good resource on tips for beginners? I googled some but if any stand out that you know of.

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lewtt
Apr 2, 2011

The Great Twist

TVDinna posted:

Is there no one that can pass GoonTang roles on? Trucidation kicked everyone out.
The guild has pretty good guild skills. Don't even care if no one else logs on :|

i tossed lead to buffdaddy/"aziz_light" a while ago, not sure if I'm even in the guild anymore

i'll dl, log on, and see what I can do

noncommittal grunt

TVDinna
Feb 17, 2013

Enkmar posted:

In the Stranger Danger discord we have a guy calling out all the boss spawns as they happen so you could even track it from your mobile if you wanted. Feel free to join us if you're feelin lonely.

I'm not the leader or even an officer, it's run by some dude who splintered off of one of the big PVP guilds about a month ago

IHA discord will have better information regarding bosses. Just use that.


lewtt posted:

i tossed lead to buffdaddy/"aziz_light" a while ago, not sure if I'm even in the guild anymore

i'll dl, log on, and see what I can do

noncommittal grunt

In a game that rewards zero effort, yours actions are exemplary sir.


floydpepper posted:

I ended up getting the $25 pack. It's pretty fun right now just slashing everything to death.
I'll never be more than casual, but I still want to get into nodes and crafting.
So much to read on it.

Anyone have a good resource on tips for beginners? I googled some but if any stand out that you know of.

Take advantage of the events right now. Get to doing scrolls quickly. Save all your money, don't hold onto anything (sell it), craft, or enhance anything.
I suppose a weapon to +7 and armor to +5 is ok, but everything else you're better off just saving up and buying everything. AFK fish all day every day.
TRI Kzarkas are about 450mil, the weapon itself is 95mil and there's no way in hell you can get anything from 0 to TRI for only 350mil (only green items maybe. Blue or Gold no way)

I just bought an alt account and I think I can grab a TRI Kzarka within a month or 2 and with pretty much 0 effort.

TVDinna fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Dec 26, 2016

Jokerpilled Drudge
Jan 27, 2010

by Pragmatica
Didn't know what IHA stood for so I looked it up http://urzasarchives.com/bdo/ihabdo/

International Hunters Association, they have Discords for each region telling you when and where bosses spawn.

I guess we've just been echoing the posts on there :shrug:

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

floydpepper posted:

Anyone have a good resource on tips for beginners? I googled some but if any stand out that you know of.
Yes. Start here:

http://www.somethinglovely.net/bdo/
http://www.tentonhammer.com/guides/black-desert-online-leveling-guide

EDIT: If you're playing casually, and don't care about getting to level 50~ in a day or so, then feel free to skip the leveling guide. That's mostly there so you know where the good grind spots are. Feel free to quest in between grinding if it gets boring. You just get CP instead of combat XP from quests.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/5heygy/guide_from_0_to_competitive_in_3_months/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rI_P_wgES0
I think he has an updated guide showing the good black crystal nodes in Valencia. Definitely pick up the Trace of Savagery node near Heidel, and maybe even the honey node. You can sell the honey instantly if you don't plan on wanting to cook anytime soon, and make pretty good money. If you do think you'll want to cook, keep it. You'll reach both of these nodes fairly early on, and you can just connect them directly from Heidel, so they shouldn't cost too much CP.

Also, start thinking about making BEER even if you don't want to cook. You will need it for everything worker related. Make all the beer, all the time. Always.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5LdczQOE38
(Note: There are other guides for more contribution if you want once you get to 50, but this is just too stupid easy not to do early on)


https://www.youtube.com/user/BladeBoques/videos
This guy is quirky, but he has good info about crafting, and getting into the market side of BDO.


Enkmar posted:

Didn't know what IHA stood for so I looked it up http://urzasarchives.com/bdo/ihabdo/

International Hunters Association, they have Discords for each region telling you when and where bosses spawn.

I guess we've just been echoing the posts on there :shrug:

Yeah, I idle in that Discord. I just have terrible luck apparently.

Now that I know I'm playing zerk as my main class, I bought some green pri/duo weaps to hold me over until I can just afford to buy everything end game at tri (Minus jewelry) because gently caress RNG right in the pooper.

Mux fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 28, 2016

TVDinna
Feb 17, 2013

Mux posted:


Now that I know I'm playing zerk as my main class, I bought some green pri/duo weaps to hold me over until I can just afford to buy everything end game at tri (Minus jewelry) because gently caress RNG right in the pooper.

TRI Kzarkas are 450mil. 95 of that is the weapon itself so about 350mil in enchanting costs. 350mil is 467 memory fragments if you've got amazing RNG and manage to repair only that 467 durability damage. Throw in Sharps, black weapon stones, costs to build failstacks and you've spent well over that much.

I thought I got lucky when I found Muskan's and Giath's on the NV then sniped a Kzarka +7. Little did I realize how much money I'd dump on those with only a PRI Muskan, +13 Giath, DUO Kzarka. Could have taken that money and bought 3 TRI pieces and saved quite a bit of real money from Artisan's Memories.
TRI Kzarka and Bhegs are quite common now, other pieces pop up with decent frequency.

J
Jun 10, 2001

Yeah at this point in the game, just buying your stuff already enhanced is probably the way to go. People that already have tri gear still go do bosses and will be getting extras, some of them will enhance those extra kzarka/boss gear pieces up to tri by buying artisan's memories to convert real money to silver in a way that bypasses the 5 pearl items per week market restriction.

floydpepper
Nov 7, 2004

"It Don't Make You A Bad Person"

Mux posted:

Tons of info

Thanks for these!

CubeTheory
Mar 26, 2010

Cube Reversal
Where is the best place I can go to listen to podcasts and while completely zoning out and murdering mobs to generate gold?

J
Jun 10, 2001

CubeTheory posted:

Where is the best place I can go to listen to podcasts and while completely zoning out and murdering mobs to generate gold?

What's your level, AP and DP? Class too.

CubeTheory
Mar 26, 2010

Cube Reversal

J posted:

What's your level, AP and DP? Class too.

56, Witch 124 AP, 115 DP. DP could be a lot higher if I needed, just need to invest the money, hadn't been a problem just farming so far.

Jokerpilled Drudge
Jan 27, 2010

by Pragmatica

CubeTheory posted:

56, Witch 124 AP, 115 DP. DP could be a lot higher if I needed, just need to invest the money, hadn't been a problem just farming so far.

Dude just pump up that DP it's cheap and easy and you can build failstacks while you do it for your AP

J
Jun 10, 2001

CubeTheory posted:

56, Witch 124 AP, 115 DP. DP could be a lot higher if I needed, just need to invest the money, hadn't been a problem just farming so far.

Give elrics a try. The latest patch says they made them harder so I don't know what they are like now or how significant the change was, but they are pretty good silver. Note that there are more of them in the canyon of corruption area than the elric temple itself, so don't feel confined to the elric temple. If elrics are too hard, try Manes.

TVDinna
Feb 17, 2013
I liked Helms a lot. There's a daily quest giver right there and it's a good amount of easy free CP.
Buying gear into competitiveness is quite easy right now. I was doing some planning for my new alt and was doing some math:
TRI Kzarka 450mil
DUO MoS/Witch's = 400 mil for all 4.
TRI Bheg 450mil
TRI Red Nose 350mil
DUO Grunil/other = 100mil for remaining 2 pieces
PRI Tree Belt 100mil
Ogre Ring 95mil
DUO Vangertz/Steel/etc. = 60mil
TRI Blue Awakened = 300mil

Comes out to be 2.3bil. Cash out from events, afk fish for relics, sell shards/stones, Hunter's Seals (convert to armor stones), CP gathering/crafting networks, daily/weeklies.
Pretty sure you can just AFK your way to victory in a few months.

floydpepper
Nov 7, 2004

"It Don't Make You A Bad Person"
Is there a better fishing pole for AFK fishing?
Looking for one with tons of durability so I can AFK fish while at work.

J
Jun 10, 2001

The balenos rod is best for AFK fishing. It has a bonus that goes up as you enhance it that decreases the amount of time it takes to reel in the fish while afk, and also gains +5 durability per level. The epheria rod is OK, it gains 10 durability per enhance level, but does not have the auto fishing time reduction bonus. But the amount of durability you need depends on how many inventory spaces you have available, the lower your inventory, the less durability your rod needs. Plus, you can use an "item brand spell stone" (400 pearls from the shop, or you can sometimes get them from the black spirit board game event), on your fishing rod to make the durability go down 50% slower, which tilts things even more in favor of the balenos rod. If you have a penguin pet from one of the events make sure to have it out while you afk fish, since it also lowers the AFK fish time.

Although I'll mention that if you have a really small inventory, you might just be better off using steel fishing rods, since they have +2 fishing skill. The balenos/epheria rods don't have an inherent fishing skill bonus. Fishing skill reduces the time it takes to initially get a bite.

lewtt
Apr 2, 2011

The Great Twist
looks like daum has the policy of ignoring all guild leadership issues
https://blackdesert.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209220469-Guild-Leadership-Changes

I PM'd BuffDaddy a few days ago with no response yet, but it is the holidays

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

TVDinna posted:

...

Comes out to be 2.3bil. Cash out from events, afk fish for relics, sell shards/stones, Hunter's Seals (convert to armor stones), CP gathering/crafting networks, daily/weeklies.
Pretty sure you can just AFK your way to victory in a few months.

Yep! I did a bit of calculating, and once I saw that it was only going to be like 2-2.5 bill for all the gear, I just figured I'd farm the money to avoid the RNG headache.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Enkmar posted:

it takes about an hour to earn the money necessary to buy a cash shop costume if you know what youre doing.

Is this legit? I was just telling my roommate how I wish I was rich enough to play this game with a low time investment... I tried a while back, but "lazy" silver through fishing and production was a slippery slope for real (and it didn't help that I couldn't pick a class to focus and hit 50 on).

What have I missed in the last seven months? Has the balance/meta changed any? Are Awakenings in yet? Has the grind to PvP-competitive status become any less soul-wracking? Do tamer pets scale with gear yet (I wanna ride my wolf into team fights and not be worthless)? Am I too late to get a penguin?!

Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 31, 2016

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

Your Loyal Vizier posted:

Is this legit? I was just telling my roommate how I wish I was rich enough to play this game with a low time investment


Yea, but it's more of a reflection of how low the conversion of real cash to in game silver is, rather than how easy it is to get silver in an hour.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





fletcher posted:

Yea, but it's more of a reflection of how low the conversion of real cash to in game silver is, rather than how easy it is to get silver in an hour.

Interesting. I did not expect that to be the case... can you buy all cash shop items for silver now, or just outfits?

J
Jun 10, 2001

Your Loyal Vizier posted:

Is this legit? I was just telling my roommate how I wish I was rich enough to play this game with a low time investment... I tried a while back, but "lazy" silver through fishing and production was a slippery slope for real (and it didn't help that I couldn't pick a class to focus and hit 50 on).

What have I missed in the last seven months? Has the balance/meta changed any? Are Awakenings in yet? Has the grind to PvP-competitive status become any less soul-wracking? Do melee classes still get instagibbed on boss fights? Am I too late to get a penguin?!

Hm, the last 7 months? They just added nouver, (dragon world boss in valencia) so I think we've got all of the valencia content now, including the valencia grind spot revamps. Awakenings are in for all the classes, have to be level 56 to do the quest to get it. I'm pretty sure they've lowered the experience needed to level at least once, if not multiple times in the last 7 months. There is a 100% exp bonus on weekends, and they added in a "daily grinding hour" thing you can claim from the rewards thing once a day for a 30 minute, 200% experience buff. Or a 60 minute 100% experience buff if you prefer. This buff stacks with the weekend EXP bonus. Depending on your gear and familiarity with the grind spots you can do 1-50 in a few hours on the weekend. It slows down after 50, and then slows down again after 56, but it is still a lot faster than it used to be.

The 3 NA servers with 12 channels each got merged into one megaserver with 36 channels.

Pvp is still gear over skill, and even if both players are competitively geared, fights tend to be a matter of who stuns/knocks down the other guy first and kills them in 1 combo. AP scales better than DP. Playing this game for pvp is...highly questionable, I would recommend another game. But if you don't care about pvp it is pretty great if you just mess around at your own pace. Melee on bosses is just a matter of learning the tells of the bosses big attacks, you can dodge them. If you're still curious about what it'd take to be "pvp competitive", a few posts up TVDinna outlined the cost of a gearset that would be decently competitive in pvp.

They've given out several penguins so far but I think you're too late to get one from the current event. They'll probably keep giving them out every so often if I had to guess. Although accounts that have not logged in for 30 days or more tend to get showered with tons of free stuff, I'm not familiar if that promotion is going currently or what but there is a good chance you'll get a bunch of gifts if your account has been idle. Don't know if that would include a penguin.

As far as what cash shop items can be bought with in game money, you can buy outfits, value packs, and pets. The conversion of real money to silver is really poo poo so anytime you can buy any of these things with silver is awesome. Unfortunately it is quite difficult to buy cash shop items, as everyone buys them really quickly so you have to hope to win the "bid" system which is really just a lottery. Like right now as of this post there are 0 cash shop items for sale on the NA server. Although when they release new costumes all the whales tend to post a bunch of them on the market immediately and you can usually get one of those.

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

J posted:

stuff

Everything J said. From what I keep hearing, tamers are broken as gently caress in small scale PvP (In a good way).

They also recently added channels that give 200% XP that you can go in if you are new to the game, or haven't played for awhile. As someone who started playing a few months ago, I never once thought the grind to 56 was even remotely hard, and I generally dislike the grind aspects of a lot of games.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Mux posted:

Everything J said. From what I keep hearing, tamers are broken as gently caress in small scale PvP (In a good way).

They also recently added channels that give 200% XP that you can go in if you are new to the game, or haven't played for awhile. As someone who started playing a few months ago, I never once thought the grind to 56 was even remotely hard, and I generally dislike the grind aspects of a lot of games.

Sounds like I should dust off my Tamer, then.


J posted:

Pvp is still gear over skill, and even if both players are competitively geared, fights tend to be a matter of who stuns/knocks down the other guy first and kills them in 1 combo. AP scales better than DP. Playing this game for pvp is...highly questionable, I would recommend another game. But if you don't care about pvp it is pretty great if you just mess around at your own pace. Melee on bosses is just a matter of learning the tells of the bosses big attacks, you can dodge them. If you're still curious about what it'd take to be "pvp competitive", a few posts up TVDinna outlined the cost of a gearset that would be decently competitive in pvp.

I saw that post, but mmo players pretty consistently under-assess the time investment of their game of choice, so I didn't give it too much weight (no offense TVDinna). And I have no context anymore for how quick you can make silver, so it seemed worth an ask :shrug:

This may seem dumb or snarky, but I'm legitimately confused... if not for pvp, then what would you play for? There doesn't seem to be much to do with your rad gear other than fight nerds with it, grind slightly radder gear, or ride horses. I guess I could hunt whales in a boat

TVDinna
Feb 17, 2013

J posted:

The balenos rod is best for AFK fishing. It has a bonus that goes up as you enhance it that decreases the amount of time it takes to reel in the fish while afk, and also gains +5 durability per level. The epheria rod is OK, it gains 10 durability per enhance level, but does not have the auto fishing time reduction bonus. But the amount of durability you need depends on how many inventory spaces you have available, the lower your inventory, the less durability your rod needs. Plus, you can use an "item brand spell stone" (400 pearls from the shop, or you can sometimes get them from the black spirit board game event), on your fishing rod to make the durability go down 50% slower, which tilts things even more in favor of the balenos rod. If you have a penguin pet from one of the events make sure to have it out while you afk fish, since it also lowers the AFK fish time.

Although I'll mention that if you have a really small inventory, you might just be better off using steel fishing rods, since they have +2 fishing skill. The balenos/epheria rods don't have an inherent fishing skill bonus. Fishing skill reduces the time it takes to initially get a bite.

A +7 Balenos is 100 dura (if max dura) and when branded, it will last almost an entire day.
I've got max inventory, event Penguin and the Fishing bonus costume. I can go away for 12 hours and still have a few slots left over.

For AFK fishing, I always just did Heidel but I was recently recommended Altinova by an exTruci guy I hang out with and the money there is very good.
However, there is a slight trade off I've noticed: Heidel has more junk fish due to "exhausted" fishing supplies so when AFK fishing, it throws away more junk fish, which results in getting more fishing attempts in for getting the relics.
Altinova has much higher quality so it fills up faster and you end up with less relics.

Because of the reduced relics, it ultimately balances out in my opinion.



Your Loyal Vizier posted:

Sounds like I should dust off my Tamer, then.


I saw that post, but mmo players pretty consistently under-assess the time investment of their game of choice, so I didn't give it too much weight (no offense TVDinna). And I have no context anymore for how quick you can make silver, so it seemed worth an ask :shrug:

This may seem dumb or snarky, but I'm legitimately confused... if not for pvp, then what would you play for? There doesn't seem to be much to do with your rad gear other than fight nerds with it, grind slightly radder gear, or ride horses. I guess I could hunt whales in a boat

You're in the same boat I am. I don't even know why I play this game. I haven't done anything besides do AFK fishing, bosses, and some scrolls. I hit 56 and did a few random quests/grinding for maybe 5%ish worth of exp. I've AFK fished my way up to almost 13%.
I've just been hoarding money and building monetary wealth as all these events will and have brought down prices significantly on many items. Kzarkas and Bhegs are commonplace now. DUO accessories are starting to become very common and pop up frequently.
I just treat this game as a prettier version of Progress Quest.

With all these events providing insane amounts of income for zero effort, it just seems meh to go out and grind money when you can just wait for the welfare checks to come in.

The most profitable event was the Lauren family boxes which is now over. This current DIY Laventia is very lucrative too. Add on the monopoly game, daily log in rewards and you can pull in quite a bit of passive income.

The guaranteed top tier accessory box in this DIY Laventia event has an expected value of roughly 75mil (for 40 pearls, which are the limiting factor) using pre-event prices, which it will probably return to after the event. (Ogre 95, Tungrade 95, Basilisk Belt 60, Crescent Guardian 45)
For the boxes into that top tier box but just cashing it out at that level, you can get 13 of those boxes for 39 pearls. If you can get roughly 5.5mil ev from each box, then you broke even. If you get more, then you've made more gains. However, this is RNG heavy and you could walk away with only a bunch of cron stones, but you could also walk away with significantly more. I opened up a Kzarka box, a soiled Sicil (which cashed intto a real Sicil) and a bunch of other stuff. I beat the 5.5mil ev for a better return by gambling, but of course your mileage will vary depending how RNGesus is feeling at the moment you open them.

Unsinkabear
Jun 8, 2013

Ensign, raise the beariscope.





Interesting. I'm gonna give it a whirl again, but that honestly sounds like not much has fundamentally changed since the last time I tried to love it. You just perfectly described my ennui from before, lol

prolapsed
Sep 9, 2015
This is the first game to make me feel overwhelmed with poo poo to learn since starting EVE years ago. Love it. Going to take a while to get bored in this poo poo.

Now to find a decent guild.

Bonby
Jan 13, 2008

Annoying Dog

prolapsed posted:

This is the first game to make me feel overwhelmed with poo poo to learn since starting EVE years ago. Love it. Going to take a while to get bored in this poo poo.

Now to find a decent guild.

The game gives you a lot of rewards if you take the time to learn how making money works in it. You can passively generate massive income and it's pretty amazing.

Jokerpilled Drudge
Jan 27, 2010

by Pragmatica

BobbyBaudoin posted:

The game gives you a lot of rewards if you take the time to learn how making money works in it. You can passively generate massive income and it's pretty amazing.

I pretty much hang around to make sure my workers keep making grunil, its getting me a cool ~35,000,000 a day

nonpromqueen
Sep 25, 2006

So are there any guilds still active? I think I'm still in PnR.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

Enkmar posted:

I pretty much hang around to make sure my workers keep making grunil, its getting me a cool ~35,000,000 a day

Do you gather the hides yourself or do you just snipe em off the market?

Jokerpilled Drudge
Jan 27, 2010

by Pragmatica

fletcher posted:

Do you gather the hides yourself or do you just snipe em off the market?

Bit of both, I made a huge market grab of 600 of em last week so that has been nice

SweetBro
May 12, 2014

Did you read that sister?
Yes, truly a shitposter's post. I read it, Rem.
Man, this game has less active playtime than EVE.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb
How in the hell did this guy get to Guru 19? How many levels of Master are there?

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Mux
Aug 4, 2010

fletcher posted:

How in the hell did this guy get to Guru 19? How many levels of Master are there?



That's basically cooking 24/7 since day one. :wtc:

TVDinna
Feb 17, 2013
Goontang got passed to someone who went inactive and no one can do anything with that guild now.
I was hoping to get that one so people could still hang out and take advantage of all the guild skills.

nonpromqueen posted:

So are there any guilds still active? I think I'm still in PnR.
Do you have any kind of admin power there?

Currently, all the goons have splintered into a bunch of different guilds after Trucidation died.
I joined a new guild with a few other casual guys who were in Trucidation.
I think they'd be up for joining whatever as long as it's casual with no required commitments.

If all the goon guilds have become inaccessible, then the one I'm in right now would take whoever wants to join.

Also, there's a lot of items which help reduce timers for the life skills.
Cook clothes +3 and Canape set alone would reduce it from default 10 into 5.
Also, cooking doesn't require energy anymore, so you can just craft beer all day being quasi afk.


edit: With the event dropping prices so low on accessories I took quite a gamble a few times recently and it mostly paid off.
DUOed a Crescent Guardian at 43 fsa few days ago.
Just blew up a Tungrade PRI attempt at 24, succeeded PRI on a Laytenn at 25.
Bought a PRI Tree belt and another PRI Crescent Guardian but don't have the fs for those yet.

If I succeed in DUOing the PRI Tree and second Crescent Guardian, then manage to TRI Kzarka, enchant up a +14 Kutum I grabbed off the MP up to DUO, I'll be sitting at around 190AP.

I'll be at a nice spot in terms of being reasonably geared finally, however what scares me is if a filthy scrubby casual like myself can get up to this just by milking the poo poo out of the events, how much damage can a hardcore sperger put out with all these events? With Nouver finally out and the ease of getting accessories, it's scary to imagine what guys with TET weapons and TRI/TET accessories are going to be sitting at for AP. 230AP DPS classes just going to go around and death touch people.

TVDinna fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Jan 7, 2017

OpticalRape
Nov 26, 2010
Join Baka

1001 Arabian dicks
Sep 16, 2013

EVE ONLINE IS MY ENTIRE PERSONALITY BECAUSE IM A FRIENDLESS SEMILITERATE LOSER WHO WILL PEDANTICALLY DEMAND PROOF FOR BASIC THINGS LIKE GRAVITY OR THE EXISTENCE OF SELF. ASK ME ABOUT CHEATING AT TARKOV BECAUSE, WELL, SEE ABOVE

RockyB
Mar 8, 2007


Dog Therapy: Shockingly Good
Just hopped back in yesterday after 6 months. Along with the dead guild (which still has gathering so eh), I had about 8 pages full of 'compensation' emails. I think I pulled out about 150 million silvers worth of stuff from lucky boxes, including a tungrade earing. And another 30 mil or so from random black spirit quests. And about 250 assorted stones. And 60+ GM blessings. And...

What I'm saying is, whoo boy they like the returning players. And giving them stuff that doesn't stack so they spend the first 2 hours doing inventory management.

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Mux
Aug 4, 2010

TVDinna posted:

I'll be at a nice spot in terms of being reasonably geared finally, however what scares me is if a filthy scrubby casual like myself can get up to this just by milking the poo poo out of the events, how much damage can a hardcore sperger put out with all these events? With Nouver finally out and the ease of getting accessories, it's scary to imagine what guys with TET weapons and TRI/TET accessories are going to be sitting at for AP. 230AP DPS classes just going to go around and death touch people.

There are quite a few 230-240AP players already. Lots of 500+ AP/DP players, too. I think Mac is sitting at around 231AP on his sorc? I don't even think he is the highest AP sorc either.

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