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SRM posted:Sounds like a tough matchup. However I can't look at that mat with unpainted buildings and not see this: The hives of playtimus V were known for their vast teeming population of children. The Dark Angles occasionally recruited from the world during the early crusade, and at the outbreak of the Heresy moved to drive off the perfidious traitor ultramarines, who coveted the many young boys of the hives to serve as infantry for overthrowing the Emperor. Unfortunately tonight the dorks were unable to achieve their tactical objectives.
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Dec 30, 2016 07:12
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Is there a guide somewhere that denotes what the different helm colours for UM mean?
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Dec 30, 2016 08:31
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Probably one of the old codexes, but Yellow: Assault Marine Blue: Devastator Marine (not that you can tell on UMs) Red: Sergeant White: Veteran
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Dec 30, 2016 08:36
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Isn't that only for 40k?
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Dec 30, 2016 08:56
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Oh, wrong thread. Well, Red for sergeants is post-Calth at least, though I think all the others are post-Codex.
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Dec 30, 2016 09:02
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check book 5, it should have the whole suite of layouts like the other books did for their legions.
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Dec 30, 2016 09:53
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Still can't use battlescribe 2 to add Demons into a 30k list... Sigh. Playing a 2k 30k throw down today, should be mint.
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Dec 30, 2016 10:17
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tallkidwithglasses posted:I played a game tonight. Did he take two squads of vets for troops and run pride? Because lamo if he did against your army. SRM posted:Thanks man, I was really worried the Terminator would look like he was falling over but I'm glad the pose reads well. Haha, I really want to play a game on that now
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Dec 30, 2016 13:30
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DJ Dizzy posted:Is there a guide somewhere that denotes what the different helm colours for UM mean? From Book 5: Standard Legionaries: Blue Sergeants: Blue with white stripe Veteran Sergeants: Blue with white stripe and "Praetor" pattern helm, crest Lieutenant: Blue with gold stripe, crest Captain: Blue with gold stripe and gold laurels, crest Vehicle crew: Blue with brass/bronze faceplate Destroyer: Black Destroyer Sergeant: Black with gold stripe Terminator: Blue with gold trim Terminator Sergeant: White with gold trim Terminator Captain: Blue with gold trim and gold laurels
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Dec 30, 2016 15:44
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BULBASAUR posted:Did he take two squads of vets for troops and run pride? Because lamo if he did against your army. He did indeed. I baleeted one of the squads with a single round of shooting from my plasmas and honestly, the game had a chance of being very close if he hadn't gotten very lucky and one shotted both my Praetor and Caestus.
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Dec 30, 2016 15:48
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PantsOptional posted:From Book 5: I love that FW provides the uniform guide stuff like this, but Terminators with white helmets/sergeants with red and white helmets look so choice that I had to do them, even for my Heresy dudes.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:58
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SRM posted:I love that FW provides the uniform guide stuff like this, but Terminators with white helmets/sergeants with red and white helmets look so choice that I had to do them, even for my Heresy dudes. 
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Dec 30, 2016 17:09
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SRM posted:I love that FW provides the uniform guide stuff like this, but Terminators with white helmets/sergeants with red and white helmets look so choice that I had to do them, even for my Heresy dudes. The best part is that they provide this guide, then on the next pages where they show the full-body shots they ignore the guides entirely.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:26
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so since i decided to pursue imperial fists i've been looking at forge world bits and whatnot to make phalanx warders, terminators with vigil pattern storm shields, etc. and it looks like one of the issues of modeling 30k is finding things to replace bits forge world does not yet or will not make point being, i plan to run somewhat terminator-heavy, and I want to give my termie squads assault cannons, but I don't see an iliastus assault cannon bit in the terminator weapon sprues on their site. what's the go-to bit then, the assault cannon in the 40k terminator box?
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Dec 30, 2016 21:06
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Patience is a virtue.  If you don't want to wait, do like everyone and use the fantastic rotor cannons. No one can tell the difference.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:14
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Mango Polo posted:Patience is a virtue. Those shields are so awful and gaudy and I want ten of them.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:19
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Mango Polo posted:Patience is a virtue. aww shiiiiii those shields are even ritzier than the 40k blood angels assault termies. superb
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Dec 30, 2016 21:33
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I want a close up of those moritats! v:  , thanks!
ijyt fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 21:41
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ijyt posted:I want a close up of those moritats! Da.  
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Dec 30, 2016 21:49
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Belt fed pistols. What an age to be alive!
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Dec 30, 2016 22:27
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I made a moritat out of a metal Cypher model, but I may have to scavenge that model's jump pack and power feeds. I've run that dude twice now and he hasn't been worth his points at all. I run him with a plasma pistol and volkite serpenta. Last time I ran him I got a full 12 volkite hits. He did like 3 wounds once it was all said and done. The plasma pistol had rolled a 1 on its first shot, as expected.  This trend has me considering dual plasma, but I'm convinced that'll do even less damage somehow.
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Dec 30, 2016 23:32
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Those are hotter than a tau drone-speeder bike rider's bare blue rear end!
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Dec 30, 2016 23:38
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I wanted to interrupt the usual BULBASAUR low level poo poo posting program for a an effort post. I've been thinking a lot about Veteran Tactical squads- the optimal troops choice of the current meta. You can expect everybody to run these because they are flexible, undercosted, and you can tool them up to do about any job well. Troops choices have always been a legion weakness and most lists either 'pay the tax' or get around it by taking better choices through a ROW. Bottom line is that most people are running vets if they can. For Iron Warriors, one option is the 'Golg' named character. He's an entirely forgettable praetor with a basic stat line, poor warlord trait, and nothing exceptional except making terminators compulsory troops choices without a rite of war. I dismissed him entirely, but now that I've been digging deep I think the terminator troops choice is pretty solid. Especially when paired with some ROWs. Terminators come in two basic flavors. Tartaros and Cataphractii. One can run, sweep, and overwatch. The other has a 4++, but can't run or sweep. In a vacuum or if you want a deathstar or a tough objective camper the Cataphracts are usually the best option. However if we're strictly talking about troops replacements (IE: a troops choice that's going up against the other troop 3+ choices and semi-specialized units like, say, 2+ suzerains) then Tartaros is a good alternative because it can cut down anything it breaks and it can run to get into position faster. At T4 BS4 2+ is about double resilient to death from massed bolter fire as 3+. It takes 18 shots for a terminator to fail a wound and 8 for a regular marine, so in terms of bolters (your common troop weapon) 2 marines ~= 1 terminator as a basic value prop. Basic tartaros terminators come with 2 basic attacks, power weapons, and a 5++ for 30 points a body and 35 up front. Here's how this stacks up against the competition in terms of up front costs:
Certainly these aren't apples and oranges, but we can look at the advantages and disadvantages to see some of the depth. Vets get more attacks in close combat and veteran tactics, but will die to lightning claws before they can hurt a terminator if they charge the wrong unit. Both can take combi weapons- terminators cost less, but have lower volume of fire. Tacs are actually a better value by 1 point, but they have no power weapons, no combi weapons, and they will fold in melee. They can out-shoot a terminator by a large volume, but it's not enough to threaten a 2+ save. You need ~5 marines in rapid fire fury range to pop a single terminator. Assault squads get 5++ in melee and are faster with power weapons. Still, the number of power weapons is relatively low. The 5++ really helps them here, but if you are paired up against claws you stand to loose bodies before your axes swing. In this case the terminators can also out shoot you, and if they take plasma weapons, you are in trouble. One final point to make- terminators have unique dedicated transport options- dreadclaws, proteus raiders, and spartans. Not being able to ride in a rhino is a bummer when you look at it in a vacuum, but when your basic troops are immune to everything except plasma and anti tank weaponry you might not need one. If you do, you can take two of the best choices without taking up a slot in your FOC. Giving them an apothacary (roughly the price of a rhino) also makes them easily survive all but the worst fire people will throw at them. My conclusion is that, even in a pride list (and especially a Golg army) terminators are a pretty viable alternative and counter to vets. The 2+ save is just that huge, but the invuln and built in power weapon is just a really good deal. For campers or deathstars, 4++ is basically a no-brainer. A pimped out vet squad in an outflanking rhino is going to cost you almost as many points as proteus mounted terminators, which while less of a glass cannon, are an AV14 wall with a bunch of 2+ saves inside who don't loose VP if you loose them all. You can foot slog a big angry tartaros squad with an attached apothacary for about the same points. Less flexible without outflank for sure, but they can take heavy weapons and counter anything except a dedicated deathstar in melee. I think in the future I want to try running a pair of tartaros squads or one larger tartaros and one smaller cataphractii squad. The tartaros will get either swords or claws and target 3+ units who don't stand much of a chance. The cataphractii can get mounted up into something with fists/axes or just stand around the backfield scoring on something plinking away with an autocannon. There are other cool combos here with other legions, ROW, and characters (deep strike, alphas, SoH, foot slogging IHs, etc), but I wanted to just cover the basic case everyone has access to because I am a massive nerd. 
BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 02:10
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Lol, just lol if you take infantry as troops choices.  Generally speaking though I agree with you about non-tac troops. Terminators are a surprisingly cost effective way to hold objectives in the backfield, and especially legions that can deep strike them, give them assault cannons, or give them shields should really always think about taking them over vets (imperial fist termies are probably absurd, huh?).
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Dec 31, 2016 03:48
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BULBASAUR posted:TERMINATORS Lot of solid points there. Adding in my two cents: *Emperor's Children in particular love Tartarus armor. The initiative bonuses their Legion rules get them grant them a consistent bonus (up to +3 with certain squads, depending on if the 'sergeant gets +1 to initiative in challenge' counts to a post-break sweep check) to Sweeping Assaults and the ability to just plain overwhelm a squad, break them, and sweep up the stragglers makes them excellent in removing other annoying squads off the board. Also, their signature Rite of War, the Maru Skara, allows them to (among others) outflank up the three Elite and/or fast attack choices, with the caveat that you're not allowed to take any Immobile or Slow and Purposeful models. Cataphractii aren't actually SnP but come drat close to it. *Death Guard, o the other hand, like Cataphractii armor - the whole 'slower but immensely tougher' thing fits their theme of inevitable rolling death to a T. Sure, Cataphractii can't sweep, but they get a legionwide penalty to Sweeping Assault anyhow so it's not like they rely on that in the first place. I play Death Guard and a friend of mine plays Emperor's Children. It makes for an interesting matchup with the complete opposite approaches to close combat - EC are the glass cannon 'strike them fast, strike them hard, overwhelm them with the alpha strike' army (especially when loaded up with phoenix power spears) while Death Guard are the 'slow bloody endurance grind' army. When he charges he basically has to rely on that first assault actually carrying through and crippling my dudes; if I can weather that first storm I'll grind him down during the next few assault phases.
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Dec 31, 2016 11:21
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Quality posts in the 30k thread  More seriously, that was a good read, thanks. With the overabundance of AP3, both terminator types kind of feel like what breachers should have been.
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Dec 31, 2016 12:32
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Lol, just lol if you take infantry as troops choices. Imperial Fist termies are absolutely absurd. I've got ten plastic tartaros here that are destined to be armed with TH/SS and teleporter transponders.
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Dec 31, 2016 13:46
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TTerrible posted:Imperial Fist termies are absolutely absurd. I've got ten plastic tartaros here that are destined to be armed with TH/SS and teleporter transponders. Be ready to fight for your right to stormshield tartaros.
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Dec 31, 2016 13:48
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Mango Polo posted:Be ready to fight for your right to stormshield tartaros. Is this a controversial reading of the rules? 
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Dec 31, 2016 13:59
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TTerrible posted:Is this a controversial reading of the rules? Plenty of dumbs-dumbs think that Tartaros don't get access to it because it's no longer a generic terminator armour. Reality is, FW copy/pasted that poo poo from the old book into the new one and it's real obvious IMO that Tartaros get it at 15 points.
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Dec 31, 2016 14:05
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Mango Polo posted:Plenty of dumbs-dumbs think that Tartaros don't get access to it because it's no longer a generic terminator armour. Ah yeah, I've just had a look. I won't be playing with anyone with that particular strain of brain damage. 
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Dec 31, 2016 14:19
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TH/SS termies that can sweep your rear end are loving terrifying.
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Dec 31, 2016 15:40
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I'm still really feeling my way out in 30k and I have no idea how to equip my Calth Cataprachtii to use with my DG. They seem like a ton of points for basically a bolter and fist.
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Dec 31, 2016 16:53
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TKIY posted:I'm still really feeling my way out in 30k and I have no idea how to equip my Calth Cataprachtii to use with my DG. Do they have a dedicated transport? A mix of Power Fists and Lightning Claws and combi-weapons. Are they marching across the field? Plasma Blaster/Reaper Autocannon and Power Fists/Lightning Claws. This came up just last night. My foot-slogging Justaerin had combi-weapons and a Multi-Melta and never shot them, while Stanyer89's terminators were in a Storm Eagle and would've benefited tremendously from having combi-plasma. Either way you're going to want to spring for the Melee weapon upgrades, being able to drop instant death wounds is crucial, and single lightning claws are still really good for letting you attack at initiative, being AP3, and having Shred. The only time I would keep terminators barebones is if I was doing like a suicide melta squad that was Deep Striking. panascope fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 17:47
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These are 100% tallkidwithglasses posted:Lol, just lol if you take infantry as troops choices. Oh man, I really love how the monochromatic Raven Guard color scheme makes those red boltguns really pop out of the front there. On most speederbikes I can barely notice the guns because I'm so busy looking at the engine, but they really jump out here. Looks wild. Or... those are Dark Angels aren't they?
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Dec 31, 2016 21:43
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Zaphod42 posted:Or... those are Dark Angels aren't they? Well let's see. Black armour? Check. White wings? Check. Gotta go fast? Check. They're Raven Guard, of course.
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Dec 31, 2016 21:47
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They're Death Guard.
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Dec 31, 2016 21:51
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Actually theyre my own custom rules for II legion Nah, they're dork angles and they rule.
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Dec 31, 2016 22:21
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Got to play my 30k Death Guard again! This game was against my friend's Harlequin list, and I absolutely demolished that band of entertainers. Anything that tried to advance on me was met with withering autocannon fire and shredding missile launchers (thank you, World Burner trait). Going to celebrate while I can, since I am almost certain he's going to bring his Tau next time. Thinking it might be time to pick up a Rapier Quad Mortar...
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Dec 31, 2016 22:55
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TTerrible posted:They're Death Guard. Looks like Iron Hands to me
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Dec 31, 2016 23:06
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