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21 Muns posted:If these sexually incapable young men are sitting around waiting to be radicalized into any ideology that comes around claiming to help them out, couldn't we just push them towards any of the classic religions that promoted celibacy? Just make them all monks or something. Could secularism have a (small) share of the blame here? This is how they're radicalizing young men in the Middle East as well according to some, yes. The idea that secularism is having unintended ill effects is an interesting one. It make sense on a basic level. The fall of The Church as a social instutition in the average person's life is one area I don't entirely disagree with conservatives about.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:06
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The whole thing of calling people virgins is weird, it's such a teenage type of concept. No significant population of adults in america are virgins. Quick search of the internet says 1.2% of men and .2% of women never have sex. Wait, this is at time of death, right?
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Dec 30, 2016 17:07
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I am feeling really surprised the concept of "they just need to get laid to be more leftist" is getting traction in this thread. It seems like such a school yard insult type of logic. You're reaching here. This isn't at all related to the individual's politics, but specifically their (their being internet trolls of the MRA/Gamergate variety) stance toward women. Whether or not they "get laid" isn't at issue (something that typically happens during their 20's on its own if they grow out of that mindset), it's the formative years impacting their outlook past highschool that's a problem. There are plenty of perfectly well adjusted conservatives in the world. They're wrong, but that doesn't mean they're monsters.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:12
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I am feeling really surprised the concept of "they just need to get laid to be more leftist" is getting traction in this thread. It seems like such a school yard insult type of logic. Good thing no-one was saying this then. The problem is people unpopular at school in their formative years often frequently develop an unhealthy attitude towards women that doesn't magically melt away when they, as you put it, get their 'dick wet' - resentment can last a long time, and when other misanthropes online reinforce that attitude then it can potentially never go away.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:17
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Tesseraction posted:The problem is people unpopular at school in their formative years often frequently develop an unhealthy attitude towards women that doesn't magically melt away when they, as you put it, get their 'dick wet' - resentment can last a long time, and when other misanthropes online reinforce that attitude then it can potentially never go away. Abusive partners come from *somewhere.* I figure that when guys like this actually hook a woman, their hangups mean that they are scared that she is planning to leave/cheating on them/disrespecting them, and this to them preemptively justifies them being controlling and abusive.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:23
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Tesseraction posted:Good thing no-one was saying this then. Do you have any actual data saying right wing people are "unpopular at school"? That doesn't even sound right. When I think stereotype of far right/bigots in highschool I think either white trash hayseeds who have a ton of stereotypes about their sex lives but none of them involve not getting any, or I think of the bullies beating up the nerds or the popular kids themselves who have a good reason they would be deeply invested in the status quo of the american hierarchy since they are the ones reaping the benefits of it. Where is the idea that the far right was the kids that were unpopular in school are coming from?
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Dec 30, 2016 17:30
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BarbarianElephant posted:Abusive partners come from *somewhere.* I figure that when guys like this actually hook a woman, their hangups mean that they are scared that she is planning to leave/cheating on them/disrespecting them, and this to them preemptively justifies them being controlling and abusive. Yeah exactly - I highly doubt Elliot Rodger having sex once would immediately transform him from a murdering psychopath into a good boy who respects women. I doubt having sex every day for the rest of his life would. Sometimes the damage is done and all you can do is manage the person.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:31
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The alt-right are different than the right wing in general.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:31
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Here's my dating tips for any of the alt-right who really struggle: 1. Wash. Every day. Your entire body. If this is too much of a burden, perhaps just start at your genitals and work outwards. 2. Be honest with your intentions. You just want casual sex? Believe it or not, there are many, many women out there who just want that too. If you say "Hey, I'm not looking for anything serious, just some fun" then there will be a lot of people who will go for that, particularly if you take point 1 into account. If you only want casual sex, and not anything more, then don't pretend like you want anything more, it's just going to end up in disappointment for everyone involved. Likewise, if you're looking for something more meaningful, express that honestly and you'll also get a lot of people who want to go for that. And that's kind of it, really.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:49
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Rush Limbo posted:Here's my dating tips for any of the alt-right who really struggle: Here are my dating tips for the alt-right: Please get therapy. But seriously, the standard dating tips don't work for these guys. Even if they wash every day, dress nicely, work out, and so forth, they will have troubles. I've known plenty of guys who are sedentary slobs who never wash who have no difficulty getting women because they actually like women and spending time with women. Their problem is that they hate women, and trying to date something you hate is a non-starter. At least if they are racists they can just avoid minority women. But no straight man can avoid women altogether, no matter how much they loathe them.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Where is the idea that the far right was the kids that were unpopular in school are coming from? No-one said that. You might get better answers to your questions if you start reading what's actually being said. For one thing there are many misogynists on the 'left' - gently caress's sake look at the Socialist Workers Party (UK) and their rapey rapey inner council. We're talking about how unhealthy attitudes towards women can occur and that's actually relatively politically neutral at that point of their lives.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:58
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PUA poo poo is like 95% basic social awareness and banter rephrased in the format of GameFAQs guides for people more primed to grasp that intuitively, and trends misogynistic and superficial to pretty much the same extent geek culture generally trends misogynistic and superficial. Dehumanizing women has about as much to do with one's personal ability to get laid as dehumanizing black people has to do with one's personal ability to play basketball, it's a cultural institution normally ingrained before the age of sexual maturity and accepted implicitly.Owlofcreamcheese posted:I am feeling really surprised the concept of "they just need to get laid to be more leftist" is getting traction in this thread. It seems like such a school yard insult type of logic. the cuck thing is snappier, and comes from smarter people who are delivering it as an offhand insult towards people who merit nothing further than dismissal rather than as a chinstroking thesis about how big-government liberalism really is fundamentally driven by a desire to be sexually humiliated by a big black buck A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:13
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If your arguments are based on your highschool observations, perhaps they are best left out of public discussion. There is no evidence that the "alt right" is a group of sex deprived men. I don't know why we're beating this topic to death other than to validate your own self worth Kilano fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:44
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BarbarianElephant posted:The alt-right are different than the right wing in general. Bullshit
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Dec 30, 2016 18:47
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KomradeX posted:Bullshit
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Dec 30, 2016 18:49
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Aren't people saying the alt-right are actual nazi and white nationalists? So John Mccain and Paul Ryan fall into these categories?
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Dec 30, 2016 18:50
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KomradeX posted:Bullshit Your slightly racist aunt is exactly the same as a Neo-Nazi? Really? The alt right are Neo Nazis (or a shade away from it, since some of them don't hate Jews, just Muslims and blacks and South American immigrants.)
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Dec 30, 2016 18:50
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:One of them is half the country and the other is like, 25k people on a few forums. Pretty different. They're also dominant on the internet and a menace or something, I dunno I can't keep up. Umberto Eco posted:The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy. makes u think
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Dec 30, 2016 18:53
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We've been hearing the exact same poo poo from Conservatives, about minorities and PC Culture for over 20 years at this point. American Conservativism became allied with neo Nazis a long loving time ago
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Dec 30, 2016 18:55
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Thinking PC culture is bullshit is not being a neo nazi. Sorry
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Dec 30, 2016 18:55
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So what makes the alt right different from the right. They're racists? Have you met American Conservatives? The right wing in America has been flirting with fascism for loving decades at this point. The only thing that's different is they finally got to stop hiding what they really were
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Dec 30, 2016 18:59
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KomradeX posted:So what makes the alt right different from the right. They're racists? Have you met American Conservatives? The right wing in America has been flirting with fascism for loving decades at this point. The only thing that's different is they finally got to stop hiding what they really were Here we have that "difference of degree" thing that SA posters seem to have a huge problem with. Yes, there is a big difference between your uncle who tells racist jokes, and an alt-righter who thinks that Muslims should be rounded up and put in camps.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:02
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KomradeX posted:So what makes the alt right different from the right. They're racists? Have you met American Conservatives? The right wing in America has been flirting with fascism for loving decades at this point. The only thing that's different is they finally got to stop hiding what they really were This is a fivethirtyeight piece that explains this pretty well. It's a couple years old but your referencing the last 20 years http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/ TLDR - There are racists in both parties. There are MORE in the republican party (as a percentage), but let's not pretend one side is stormfront and the other is the party of MLK
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Dec 30, 2016 19:04
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Somewhat tautologically, the alt right are weirdos. If there is one unifiying factor between alt righters it's that they're all loving freaks who can't get accepted in mainstream society. Be it their way of espousing their views or just their otherwise generally repellant personalities, the alt right are people who can't be the normal right because they lack the veneer of respectability that the mainstream right do. My evidence is the preponderance of sexually frustrated neckbeards and literal actual nazis/open nazi apologists, what do the two have in common? You get laughed at for being both in public.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:05
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Kilano posted:Thinking PC culture is bullshit is not being a neo nazi. One of the groups that makes up the alt right is actual, literal neo Nazis and white supremacists. I remember seeing one of their spokesmen get mad at the idea that the alt right ISNT pro white supremacy. I honestly think that this is part of the reason having a conversation about the alt right is tricky. They're not really a monolithic block. If I had to guess the alt right is really just the young right. It's made up of a handful of different groups ranging from outspoken neo nazis to gamergaters to people who would be the just plain right if they were over 30.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:07
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Great Metal Jesus posted:One of the groups that makes up the alt right is actual, literal neo Nazis and white supremacists. I remember seeing one of their spokesmen get mad at the idea that the alt right ISNT pro white supremacy. I agree that the alt-right consists of neo nazis, racists and white nationalist scumbags. I'm saying that being a republican who doesnt agree with PC culture doesn't put you in this category. Although to your point about people who would just be plain right if they were over 30, i'm not quite sure I agree. The identity of the alt-right seems to revolve around rejecting the "normal" right white political ideas for more extreme ones.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:10
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Kilano posted:I'm saying that being a republican who doesnt agree with PC culture doesn't put you in this category. It probably does tbh.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:11
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:makes u think Kilano posted:Aren't people saying the alt-right are actual nazi and white nationalists? So John Mccain and Paul Ryan fall into these categories? MRAs, GamerGaters, Trump cheerleaders, /pol/ idiots, and NPI neo-Nazis aren't the same thing though, and some of those are fragmented internally as well. So, Owlofcreamcheese is right in the sense that talking about why MRAs exist and what would make them go away isn't going to apply to the rest of it, but then we were talking about MRAs specifically, so... OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 19:22
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We can talk all we love about difference of degrees. But yeah there is not much of a difference between your uncle who tells racist jokes and the guy who wants to put Muslims in camps if that uncle thinks that Muslims should be put into camps
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Dec 30, 2016 19:24
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KomradeX posted:We can talk all we love about difference of degrees. But yeah there is not much of a difference between your uncle who tells racist jokes and the guy who wants to put Muslims in camps if that uncle thinks that Muslims should be put into camps Well, duh, but I don't think most racists want that.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:26
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I think they probably would if they didn't think they might suffer consequences for it.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:28
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I think they are all KGB agents waiting to sabotage the liberal institution of america to bring about the uprising of putin's new world order
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Dec 30, 2016 19:31
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OwlFancier posted:I think they probably would if they didn't think they might suffer consequences for it. If most mild racists secretly wanted to put minorities in death camps, they would be in death camps.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:31
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BarbarianElephant posted:If most mild racists secretly wanted to put minorities in death camps, they would be in death camps. They end up in death camps without the constant threat of the state and/or other parts of society to keep those "mild racists" in check. A mild racist is someone who will probably be totally fine with death camps should the option be on the table.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:34
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I am feeling really surprised the concept of "they just need to get laid to be more leftist" is getting traction in this thread. It seems like such a school yard insult type of logic. You are looking at it from a wrong angle. Instead consider: There needs to be a more equitable, healthy society for this sort of attitudes to disappear. As long as care for the struggling and unmotivated members of society is lacking, there will be serious dysfunctions, at best on individual level, but also you should expect the afflicted to band together when given a chance to supplement the social outlets they have been lacking thus far. This doesn't mean the bitter people we have now will magically do a 180 if you smile at them, but it means there is no need to reproduce the mistakes of the past.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:36
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OwlFancier posted:They end up in death camps without the constant threat of the state and/or other parts of society to keep those "mild racists" in check. a "mild racist" is someone who crosses the street when they see a group of minority men approaching them. This does not fit them being OK with literal death camps
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Dec 30, 2016 19:40
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The State, noted historical bulwark against homebrew death camps
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Dec 30, 2016 19:43
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Kilano posted:a "mild racist" is someone who crosses the street when they see a group of minority men approaching them. I would, then, look forward to seeing the potential future articles by the right wing press saying "look just because I said that black people are inherently criminal and untrustworthy and don't want to see or hear about them doesn't mean I agree with systematically killing them" As opposed to the current trend which I believe is "black people protesting against being systmatically killed by the police is unacceptable and they should shut up and deal with it" A Wizard of Goatse posted:The State, noted historical bulwark against homebrew death camps It currently is in places, that does not mean it always was or always will be.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:44
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Why are you talking about articles? We're talking about your every day Joe who works 40 hours a week and tells dirty jokes to his coworkers.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:47
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the far-right is dominant on the internet because for every actual far-right troll spamming racial slurs on Overwatch to see who he can get a rise out of there's at least one hysterical internet ninny bored by real politics screeching about how your grandma is a literal Nazi concentration camp guard because she voted Republican and quoting the troll guy's greatest hits to see who he can get a rise out of
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Dec 30, 2016 19:48
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