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Who What Now posted:This is ironic, right? I believe Nevvy is making reference to the massive amount of name-calling TB did.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:01
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Crane Fist posted:If you're honestly curious, a lot of the consensus on women voting for Trump seems to be that for starters no one really expects him to follow through on the awful poo poo he said, and also the huge factor that for vast numbers of people in the rust belt things like abortion access and LGBT rights come second to "my town is literally dying, there are no jobs and I can't feed my family". Essentially, they're stranded in the desert, and being given the option of voting for the guy who promises to lead them to a yooge, luxurious oasis just over that hill who also has some awful opinions and is a horrible person, and an empty suit who tells them the water is gone, it's not coming back. Also you don't really need water, your body is 90% water already, seriously did you hear what that guy said? Terrible, right? You can just go ahead and vote for me now. Also her husband is the one who stranded them in the desert in the first place. This analogy really got out of hand. See here's the problem. Trump didn't say. "The water is right over there, follow me!" Trump said. "The water has been stolen from you and I'm gonna bring it back!" Compare to Hillary who was honest with them and told them the water was gone and it was never coming back. That they would have to find a new source of water to survive. Here is where I think the water is. I've got a plan to make it as easy to get to the water as possible. With Hillary they would have to adapt. They would have to retrain and re-educate themselves. They would have to work. For a person in their late 30s and older being told you have to go back to school again is pretty galling. They can't afford to be saddled anew with college debt. They might not have the time or ability to retrain. And the truth is, age discrimination is real and even if they did their part companies are reluctant to hire older people for many reasons. With Trump, they don't have to do poo poo. Just vote for him and wait for the rain to fall. They don't have to accept the reality that their way of life is dead and adapt. And it's not their fault that the floor felt out from under them, they acted in good faith. They're victims. But the problem is Trump is lying to them. Trump can't bring their jobs back. I've said this a dozen times but Trump is not a jobs wizard. You have to pay Americans too much and provide them too many benefits for manufacturing. It can't be here and be profitable. So short of gouging our quality of life and turning America into a third world country those jobs are gone. He might be able to do a few more token "job saving" measures like he did with Carrier. (It didn't save much and neutered the union.) He might even be able to convince a couple factories to come back. But, he'd never be able to do it at the level it would take to "save" the middle class. And keeping that uneconomical industry running is keeping it an option for future generations instead of pushing them to where the future really is. From a purely economic standpoint. The amount of concessions, tax breaks, union busting and employee stomping, and coddling that would be required to bring those jobs back, and keep them, would probably not offset the cost. We would not reap back in taxes from the employees what we spent to get/keep the jobs in the first place. The social and financial price is too great. (I could be wrong though. But this is what economists and union reps are saying.) Hillary was right. The way forward is to adapt. But it's hard to sell that to a person in their late 30s and older. That's just not a viable/palatable option. So ultimately folks voted for Trump because of his promise to bring prosperity back to them. And they were willing to potentially sacrifice rights and personhood because survival was more important and those things they are risking don't effect them enough anyway. (They're gambling that Trump won't/can't do the bad but can/will do the good.) But even if they are right and their gamble pays off and he does not gently caress women forever. They have still hosed us for nothing. Because the environmental damage of his climate change denying EPA, extensive deregulation, and summary auctioning off of federal lands to the highest bidder will be lasting and permanent. The level in which the ultra rich can continue to hoard and control wealth across generations will be greatly inflated once his administration repeals the estate tax (they're gonna.) Allowing the power and influence of the wealthy elite to continue to snowball while shackleing the lower classes with the load. Income inequality will get more obscene and that will have lasting, generational effects that won't be rectified short of forced redistribution of wealth. (Ha ha, yeah right.) And social services/public assistance like Welfare, SNAP, WIC, Section 8, Medicaid, etc are going to be eviscerated. We can, of course, repair that but it will require taking power back from assholes and ha ha good luck. Meanwhile, generations of poor will find their lives harder and their boots without straps to pull. They will suffer. It's gonna be bad. But none of this effects them or matters to them enough. They can't think long term like that, they can't afford to consider or care about other people. And even if they get theres they won't start reaching down and pulling others up. FDR did some great poo poo and the white working class was happy to pay the price until they got theres. But once they had to pay to help other people? They started voting Republican again. They don't care about a better life for everybody. They just want a better life for them. People suck. Anyway, politics derail over. Jenner fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 17:06
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Tir McDohl posted:I believe Nevvy is making reference to the massive amount of name-calling TB did. Ah, so Nevvy got called a mean name and now he's going to poo poo up a good thread in retaliation. Cool cool.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:06
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Who What Now posted:Ah, so Nevvy got called a mean name and now he's going to poo poo up a good thread in retaliation. Cool cool. I didn't get called anything. You literally have no idea what you speak of. A bunch of posters did get called stuff, but I think they were genuinely confused because I was too. I found myself agreeing with a lot of people I don't ever agree with in that thread who were being yelled at for questions that I wanted to know the answers to. Tir McDohl posted:I believe Nevvy is making reference to the massive amount of name-calling TB did. More a rhetorical point about how sometimes someone is just being an rear end in a top hat and calling them on it isn't always tone policing. Like, tone policing is a bad thing, but that doesn't make a ton of name calling acceptable either and hostility isn't suddenly a productive thing just because someone tone policed someone once. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 17:08
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Who What Now posted:Ah, so Nevvy got called a mean name and now he's going to poo poo up a good thread in retaliation. Cool cool. The other thread was also good before it was poo poo up by toxbot invaders from this thread. And yeah, I'm buttmad TB said I was literal klansmen.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:09
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You areNevvy Z posted:1. Listen, you incredible nitwit. You simpering bufoon. You complete rear end. You misandrist. Damaging causes by being angry and aggressive is an actual thing that happens, you might not like it, but it's a huge turn off for people who ask questions to then get yelled at. It does, in fact, make other people less inclined to participate. And there is such a thing as being too big of an rear end in a top hat, that's not a tone argument. I would go so far as to say that if someone is turned off by your hostility and you trot this out you are straight up dismissing their legitimate feelings because they are inconvenient to you. Denying their lived exerience, as they say. drat, this is a crippling blow to feminism, it approaches "men and their petulant behavior" in its damaging effects.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:18
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the white hand posted:drat, this is a crippling blow to feminism, it approaches "men and their petulant behavior" in its damaging effects. Is that what you think I was trying to do there? Interesting.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:20
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Since the "Patriarchy hurts men." Thread got murdered would it be okay to talk about taking care of babies and parenting responsibilities here? I ask because it's largely talking about men and I know we really don't want to talk about men here we want to talk about women and feminism. But we had a bit of a short conversation about this in the Ladythread which branched off of "guys don't do housework." To "guys also don't take care of babies, aren't socialized to handle babies, aren't expected to parent, can and do dump all the unpleasant stuff on mom and only do the fun stuff." And to a greater extent. "Women are forced to learn how to handle babies. There is social pressure and extreme judgment on women who refuse to accept and learn baby stuff or participate in the mandatory female socialization of baby stuff." Let me know if this is something okay to talk about or that you guys want to talk about because I have a lot to say about it. But I understand if it's too About Men for this thread. I can wait for the Men thread to come back and toss it in there to burn up and die as hyper-privileged tantruming baby men burn the thread to the ground. Again. Jenner fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 17:23
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I mean my first post in this thread was literally the first time I've posted in any sort of social activism thread or even in D&D period, and I have a barely 101-level understanding of feminism right now, and yet I managed to get a detailed, thoughtful response from several of the better-known feminist posters, including TB, without any name-calling or negativity. I didn't even have to tiptoe around any triggerwords or anything dumb like that. So either the people that keep getting shouted down for being jerks are being jerks intentionally, or they're revealing their own biases through their words and having a lot of trouble dealing with those biases being exposed. Also just for the hell of it I tend to dig deeper into peoples' histories when posters like TB call them out for weirdly specific past transgressions and wouldn't you know it they're almost always correct about them! Like I'm not trying to act like Mr. Perfect Feminist Ally here but if you read through this thread there's a pretty obvious difference between the "but but I posted in good faith and everyone called me a bigot" posting and the actual discussions like the workplace sexism discussion. You'll notice that that started out with that poster being called out on unintentionally fostering a sexist environment, and I think there's been some really good discussion and progress on that subject. I wonder why?
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Dec 30, 2016 17:24
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Nevvy Z posted:1. Listen, you incredible nitwit. You simpering bufoon. You complete rear end. You misandrist. Damaging causes by being angry and aggressive is an actual thing that happens, you might not like it, but it's a huge turn off for people who ask questions to then get yelled at. It does, in fact, make other people less inclined to participate. So why do you hang around and whine about how mean and nasty people are, if you're less inclined to participate?
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Dec 30, 2016 17:24
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Nevvy Z posted:Is that what you think I was trying to do there? Interesting. It's pretty black-and-white considering your response to "here is a detailed argument why getting angry in a debate is OK and why dismissing the debate due to that anger is lovely and defeats the purpose of the debate" is just repeating your original argument which was "I don't want to listen to what you say because you're being too angry about it"
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Dec 30, 2016 17:26
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Can you crybabies not ruin this thread after you got the other one closed? Thanks.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:27
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Nevvy Z posted:Is that what you think I was trying to do there? Interesting. It's actually really uninteresting at this point
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Dec 30, 2016 17:27
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Blurred posted:Maurice Merleau-Ponty, gender difference, aggression, sexual dimorphism, and the ontology of power Hey! Thanks for the detailed response! (If all disagreement in this thread were at this level I think we'd all be way happier!) It'll take me a bit to write the response this one deserves, but I did read it, and I intend to get back to you. I'm not sure how much I can help you with regard to some of the more ontological questions, which I guess is a personal weakness of my philosophy. I've always been less interested in "where did this come from" than "what is to be done" or "what does it mean". If anyone else itt has thoughts about sexual dimorphism and agression, I'd love to see your thoughts. I see masculine agression as much as a cultural value as a "physical" one, and I agree that a pedagogy that focuses on empathy and conflict resolution is something that is absent for a lot of boys. One of the big challenges of primary education, as you alluded to, is balancing the individuality of students with wider needs of the class, and frankly, the instructor's time. To use an example from a workplace I was in: it's way easier for an administrator to tell the boy making sexual inuendos that the discussion is inappropriate for school than it is to explain why it makes the girls (and hell, the instructor) uncomfortable, and why that's important. Observing this was pretty frustrating for me, because while the intervention as far as I could tell worked, in that the kid shut up, I don't think it actually addressed the problem.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:35
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Jenner posted:Since the "Patriarchy hurts men." Thread got murdered would it be okay to talk about taking care of babies and parenting responsibilities here? I ask because it's largely talking about men and I know we really don't want to talk about men here we want to talk about women and feminism. What they should have done is let me do filing or other grunt office work. I would have KILLED at that.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:42
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Defenestration posted:There is a lot to say re: babies but my pet anecdote is about how from the time I was 14 or so adults everywhere expected me to be competent and willing to do all kinds of childcare. I HATED babysitting and I was terrible at it. But because I was a teenage girl, this was the major avenue of work open to me. It always blew my mind how adults would trust me with their children, since children are supposed to be the most important part of life or whatever. In general how much was that an option for boys in 00s or 90s? I remember the only avenue for a teenage job I was told about was lawn work, when while I'm nowhere near patient enough to properly handle kids at least it would've been indoors.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:48
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Octatonic posted:Hey! Thanks for the detailed response! (If all disagreement in this thread were at this level I think we'd all be way happier!) It'll take me a bit to write the response this one deserves, but I did read it, and I intend to get back to you. I'm not sure how much I can help you with regard to some of the more ontological questions, which I guess is a personal weakness of my philosophy. I've always been less interested in "where did this come from" than "what is to be done" or "what does it mean". I think masculine, testosterone linked aggression is real, if overstated and made far worse by our culture's socialization of boys. We simply aren't taught how to control our tempers beyond the basic "it's not nice to hit" as toddlers. They never tell you about the scary side. That fighting and conflict are a rush. That it feels good to hurt someone who wronged you. And that's not just limited to physical conflict either. It's in all aspects of our society as men. Punishing those who hurt us, or get in our way. We're not taught about the adrenaline rush you get when you're furious, and how bad or addicting that is. No, we get to see badasses on TV stomping the bad guys. It took me years of fighting my inner rage-aholic to get where I am now, and it never fully goes away.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:53
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Eimi posted:In general how much was that an option for boys in 00s or 90s? I remember the only avenue for a teenage job I was told about was lawn work, when while I'm nowhere near patient enough to properly handle kids at least it would've been indoors. I actually babysat for my neighbors for spending money at 14, but I might be an outlier.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:55
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The Kingfish posted:It was ruined because posters like TB cannot tolerate the slightest bit of wrongthink. Yeah that's bullshit. TB was downright restrained for most of that thread, and it completely devolved into an argument about doing housework. What's frustrating is that the article that sparked the housework discussion mentioned it because it was a symptom of the lack of equality and respect that caused his marriage to fail. But a bunch of guys read it (or didn't read it) as if housework was the underlying problem and not a symptom of it.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:56
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Eimi posted:In general how much was that an option for boys in 00s or 90s? I remember the only avenue for a teenage job I was told about was lawn work, when while I'm nowhere near patient enough to properly handle kids at least it would've been indoors.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:57
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Octatonic posted:One of the big challenges of primary education, as you alluded to, is balancing the individuality of students with wider needs of the class, and frankly, the instructor's time. To use an example from a workplace I was in: it's way easier for an administrator to tell the boy making sexual inuendos that the discussion is inappropriate for school than it is to explain why it makes the girls (and hell, the instructor) uncomfortable, and why that's important. Observing this was pretty frustrating for me, because while the intervention as far as I could tell worked, in that the kid shut up, I don't think it actually addressed the problem. Yeah that must have been frustrating. You can't dump a whole bunch of information on a kid all at once either. I'm assuming your example was kids - but maybe college students? Anyhow, in a not-sexist ideal world, the admin would do that, and the kid's parents or peers would back it up and finish the job with just their responses to hearing about his behavior. Or, in this less-perfect world, the teacher/instructor would slowly drop in teaching some empathy over the next few weeks and hopefully get the kid to realize on his own that oh poo poo, that wasn't very nice. Good teaching is all about guiding students to their destination but not actually dragging them there; it's part of why the toxic masculinity/learned helplessness is so loving lol because if someone doesn't want to learn, it doesn't matter how good a teacher you are, fucker is not going to learn. Thread friends if I can take a moment to be a big loving nerd may I recommend this web serial: https://tiraas.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/book-1-prologue/ as it is fun and feminist as gently caress. It's very D&D inspired but one of the main characters is almost literally a paladin of feminism and she is awesome despite (because of?) being a "real" person with some flaws of character. Lots more good female characters in the story as well, all with their own perspectives and backgrounds and etc etc. The world-building is very fun.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:39
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This just came across my Facebook feed and I thought it may interest some here: http://www.emergemi.org/about I've been to similar trainings before and they are definitely worth checking out.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:50
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Defenestration posted:There is a lot to say re: babies but my pet anecdote is about how from the time I was 14 or so adults everywhere expected me to be competent and willing to do all kinds of childcare. I HATED babysitting and I was terrible at it. But because I was a teenage girl, this was the major avenue of work open to me. It always blew my mind how adults would trust me with their children, since children are supposed to be the most important part of life or whatever. In the interest of utterly humiliating myself by confessing to my immense social awkwardness I'm going to rehash my experiences with forced gender socialization and my totally mature and appropriate reaction to it so you can all laugh at me and maybe I can get a new Red Text. (Strongly recommend a link to the "I threw it on the ground" music video btw.) So I am not interested in holding babies. But I am expected to not only hold babies but want to hold babies. Every time a relative would ask me if I wanted to hold a baby I would decline. If they asked for a reason/excuse I would just shrug and say, "I don't wanna." This, of course, was unacceptable. My rejection of baby confused and offended a couple of my cousins. One decided to take matters into her own hands and force me to conform by just dumping her 11 month old daughter into my arms without even asking me if I wanted to hold her then walking away and ignoring me when I asked her to please take her kid back because I don't want this. So I just crouched down, put the baby gently on the floor, and walked away. I had to do this several more times across various social visits before she finally stopped with the gurellia socialization. That's my story of adamantly rejecting this expectation of women with the most passive aggressive nope of all time. The Sims is real. I end with this quote from the Ladythread: Pick posted:I think there's too much pressure and expectation to be okay with holding someone else's baby. I can't imagine doing that with some other valuable. "Oh, here, hold my fabrege egg! but don't drop it, if you do and it breaks I'll hate you forever, you'll be a social pariah, and you might go to jail! But you've got to hold it, otherwise you're probably a creep!" I hope you enjoyed. Jenner fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:56
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Octatonic posted:Hey! Thanks for the detailed response! (If all disagreement in this thread were at this level I think we'd all be way happier!) It'll take me a bit to write the response this one deserves, but I did read it, and I intend to get back to you. I'm not sure how much I can help you with regard to some of the more ontological questions, which I guess is a personal weakness of my philosophy. I've always been less interested in "where did this come from" than "what is to be done" or "what does it mean". Talmonis posted:I think masculine, testosterone linked aggression is real, if overstated and made far worse by our culture's socialization of boys. We simply aren't taught how to control our tempers beyond the basic "it's not nice to hit" as toddlers. They never tell you about the scary side. That fighting and conflict are a rush. That it feels good to hurt someone who wronged you. And that's not just limited to physical conflict either. It's in all aspects of our society as men. Punishing those who hurt us, or get in our way. We're not taught about the adrenaline rush you get when you're furious, and how bad or addicting that is. No, we get to see badasses on TV stomping the bad guys. It took me years of fighting my inner rage-aholic to get where I am now, and it never fully goes away. I would concur with this to a degree, use of violence, or threat of violence, to achieve goals is quite viscerally satisfying. Whether or not this is linked to physiology I can't say, having only one set of physiology on hand as a sample. But certainly socialization, both masculine and, I suppose "general" socialization directed at all people does not do an especially good job of tackling this, it is left largely up to the individual. With as stated, corrections being superficial, not tackling the root of the problem, either not criticizing the root motivation or not providing a compelling alternative. Whether the cause is physiological or socialized, all the women I know do a much better job of controlling, or not experiencing, the desire to solve everything with violence than the men I know do. Closing that gap would be a very good thing.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:58
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Jenner posted:So I just crouched down, put the baby gently on the floor, and walked away. Please don't do this. If you don't want to visit the baby, just don't.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:59
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BarbarianElephant posted:Please don't do this. If you don't want to visit the baby, just don't. I'm not sure there's a better reaction to someone throwing a squirming infant at you and then loving off to do something else. I have enough trouble holding my dog much less a kid.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:02
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BarbarianElephant posted:Please don't do this. If you don't want to visit the baby, just don't. It's too late now and there were relatives I wanted to see and catch up with at these social events. I couldn't just nope on the baby dumping without isolating myself from family members I did want to hang out with. Obviously I should have just dumped the baby back into her arms or offloaded the baby onto someone else like the most delicate game of hot potato. But that didn't occur to me then. Regardless of how bad what I did was, I am no longer handed babies. Mission Accomplished.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:06
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Babies are pretty loving delicate. If you put them on the floor they can't move away and they are in danger of getting stepped on, especially if as I assume this was a family party with lots of people around. [edit] Jenner posted:Obviously I should have just dumped the baby back into her arms or offloaded the baby onto someone else like the most delicate game of hot potato. But that didn't occur to me then. Yup 
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Dec 30, 2016 19:06
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure there's a better reaction to someone throwing a squirming infant at you and then loving off to do something else. While forcing a baby on someone is super lovely, it isn't the babies fault and certainly shouldn't be put at risk like that. Pass the baby off to someone else like a hot potato would be the best action followed by a stern talking to the instigator to never do that again. Will reiterate though that being forced into that situation is super lovely. I offer my newborn up for being held to close friends and family, and have gotten plenty of no thanks in response, so it's definitely not an unusual feeling to have. Edit: im definitely not passing judgement on you jenner. Jynx on the hot potato line! SpaceCadetBob fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 19:11
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This just in: goons do not know what to do with a baby or how to be honest with their relatives.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:12
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FactsAreUseless posted:This just in: goons do not know what to do with a baby or how to be honest with their relatives. Things we have learned from feminism threads: Gonna are socially awkward; live in messy houses.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:18
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Things we have learned from feminism threads: Gonna are socially awkward; live in messy houses. Female goon, upon being asked to hold a baby: *sets down the baby, runs away*
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Dec 30, 2016 19:22
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SpaceCadetBob posted:While forcing a baby on someone is super lovely I don't like holding babies, but I do it if asked because mothers need a break from holding babies. I think that's the main reason people ask us to do it, to be honest, and I can understand them being a bit too pressing in their requests. But certainly, idiot comments about one's baby-holding performance can make it intolerable.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:24
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Oh dear me posted:I think that's the main reason people ask us to do it, to be honest, and I can understand them being a bit too pressing in their requests. Sometimes you just want to go to the toilet or have a conversation that doesn't involve screaming.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:30
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The Kingfish posted:The other thread was also good before it was poo poo up by toxbot invaders from this thread. And yeah, I'm buttmad TB said I was literal klansmen. Take your  out of this thread. Also, what was you favorite part of the other thread: male goons comically missing the point of the politics of tedium and the housework article, or the goon spouting  and saying toxic masculinity was caused by women not sleeping with him and that we should force women to sleep with neckbeards? 
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Dec 30, 2016 19:32
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FactsAreUseless posted:Male goon, upon being asked to clean: *sets down the controller, runs away* Lol maybe this thread has got it all wrong and goons are actually the cause of all societal ills. I guess that means that FYAD and previously Helldump are/were doing God's work.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:32
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quote:Here's my embarrassing story about how gendered expectations were overwhelming when I didn't know how to deal with an unasked for intrusion! quote:haha suck it up goon Good job, folks.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:36
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stone cold posted:Take your Wait, what? Edit: Don't give your baby to people who clearly tell you they don't want to hold them and your baby won't end up on the floor. It's pretty simple.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:43
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Who What Now posted:Don't give your baby to people who clearly tell you they don't want to hold them and your baby won't end up on the floor. It's pretty simple. Lol, this is the gooniest response. Jenner isn't defending him/herself or trying to justify what he/she did. It's just an embarrassing and amusing story, assuming no babies were harmed in the creation of the story. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 19:49
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| # ? May 28, 2024 22:14 |
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FactsAreUseless posted:Male goon, upon being asked to clean: *sets down the controller, runs away* Funnily enough, both cleaning and taking care of children are things that men have the luxury of not having to do! Women don't have that luxury! It's unreasonable for a man to flee from housework because that is immature and silly. And it is unreasonable for a woman to not want to hold a baby because it is immature and silly. But a guy can refuse to hold a baby and that is not immature or silly. You see? Men can say, "No thanks" to a baby and it's fine but when a woman does it is unacceptable and a reflection on her as a person. I don't feel a man would ever get a baby dumped into his arms without his permission. Wiping down counters, sweeping the floor, making the bed, mopping, washing dishes, doing the laundry, etc those are all VERY different then being handed someone's child and expected to deal with it and like it. People should be expected to do their fair share of housework. Nobody should be expected to hold a baby they don't want to hold. It's goony, I admit it. I'm not proud of it and I wish I had known the right course of action back then instead of panicking and being a goon. But there's a big distinction between not doing your chores and not wanting to handle someone else's child. Oh dear me posted:I don't like holding babies, but I do it if asked because mothers need a break from holding babies. I think that's the main reason people ask us to do it, to be honest, and I can understand them being a bit too pressing in their requests. Men are rarely, if ever, asked to hold a baby. Especially if they're not the father. But women, even distantly related, will be asked to hold babies all the time. There's nothing wrong with holding a baby. I've done my share of baby holding. (I don't slam dunk every baby into the trash where it belongs.) I understand the importance of giving the mother a break and being supportive. I'm okay with that. I just wish men would step in more and were just as expected to perform the task (because they are more than capable of holding a baby.) Men only want to do the fun parenting stuff. They don't wanna soothe screaming children, they don't want to change diapers, they don't want to give baths. They definitely don't want to be the one who gets up at obscene hours to rock and comfort the child. They don't even really want to potty train. And guess what, thanks to various reasons, they don't have to! They can just shovel all the gross stuff onto mom and then be the Hero Dad who feeds and plays with the baby and let's poor mom rest. It's a Problem.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:50
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