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Fun fact. I thought Dershowitz was a Republican.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:23
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the best part is that he admits that he'll still vote D but just have a massive shitfit about it in public
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Dec 30, 2016 20:26
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GlyphGryph posted:The opinions of the actual electorate on a huge number of issues are so mercurial and contextual that drawing conclusions even from a perfectly representative poll on "what we should do", or for anything more complex than "who are you probably going to vote for", is iffy. well let me put it this way - i worked on a northeast statewide campaign in 2014. every call/door knock with undecided voters, our staff and volunteers asked what issue was most important to them. maybe like 50-60% of the responses, excluding "i don't know" were "abortion," and those people were entirely pro-life without exception. i'm pretty sure that wasn't the actual #1 issue among those undecided voters! and our polling backed that up. i would say that pivoting our message toward abortion would have been a massive strategic error because that is not what people wanted to talk about, even if certain groups of people were very passionate about it. sure, i agree with the idea that the party should be a thermostat and not a thermometer. i am sure a lot of people here agree with bernie-style activists, but is the party really listening to what people want if it started pursuing animal rights & anti-gmo policies? those are policies with very loud advocates but their issues don't rate at all in polling.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:29
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Like I'd be concerned about losing donors like Saban if the map wasn't blood red. Something's gotta give.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:29
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Tatum Girlparts posted:is the corbyn factor one dude who is barely considered a democrat other than the literal letter next to his name being a bitch? no it's getting your poo poo pushed in by the loving lib dems lol
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Dec 30, 2016 20:31
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Aurubin posted:Like I'd be concerned about losing donors like Saban if the map wasn't blood red. Something's gotta give. The money obviously doesn't help if there's no one on the bench to run
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Dec 30, 2016 20:33
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Concerned Citizen posted:well let me put it this way - i worked on a northeast statewide campaign in 2014. every call/door knock with undecided voters, our staff and volunteers asked what issue was most important to them. maybe like 50-60% of the responses, excluding "i don't know" were "abortion," and those people were entirely pro-life without exception. i'm pretty sure that wasn't the actual #1 issue among those undecided voters! and our polling backed that up. i would say that pivoting our message toward abortion would have been a massive strategic error because that is not what people wanted to talk about, even if certain groups of people were very passionate about it. I mean, agree about your conclusions, as usual, even if we disagree on a lot of the details. quote:those are policies with very loud advocates but their issues don't rate at all in polling.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:36
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Aurubin posted:Fun fact. I thought Dershowitz was a Republican. he's pro-israel democrat
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Dec 30, 2016 20:36
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Alan Dershowitz has harmed more Jews and destroyed more Jewish academics careers than a rabid anti Semite ever could because of his fetish over an apartheid state so the sooner progressives dump him and saban the better, gently caress those assholes.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:39
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Yeah but they were Reform Jews so it doesn't really count.
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Dec 30, 2016 20:48
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GlyphGryph posted:What do you consider "not rating at all", though? Wasn't a crucial part of Trump's victory his managing to convincingly appeal to pro-life voters? It seemed like that actually would have been relevant data - maybe not in the form of "oh this is popular so we should switch to supporting this" but in terms of "we know this is a big deal for these people and we need to figure out another way to win them over, depress their turnout, or otherwise account for the fact that the opponent has them on lock" when i mean "not rating" i mean like, these are often issues that only 1-2% of the electorate really cares about. as far as pro-life - well, in the case of that race, i think it would have been a disaster to pivot from an economy-oriented message and willingly slog into the swamp of the culture war. but as far as pro-life voters go, it's a bit of an issue isn't it? i mean at some point you have to accept there are some voters you aren't going to win. one interesting thing was that Planned Parenthood commissioned a series of focus groups with trump voters in swing states (without telling people it was them). they often found that a number of trump voters, especially women, were strongly pro-choice, would not vote for a pro-life candidate, and also simply did not believe him when he said he was pro-life. so what is the effective strategy for dealing with that issue? if you're targeting trump's pro-life base, you could pivot and talk about "reasonable" restrictions on abortion (i.e. partial birth) to the horror of your pro-choice supporters - and i doubt trump's base would really believe you. you could question trump's commitment to his stated belief, but then you're also giving your pro-choice supporters on the fence an excuse to defect. i think the clinton campaign took the tactic of amping up turnout among women by asking them to take trump at his word when he said he wanted to restrict abortion - and they didn't.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:06
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I'd be fine with some hand-wringing or lip service wrt abortion if it would really get us more voters. Better to compromise on that than the stuff lovely Democrats actually do compromise on. Then again I don't really care about abortion as an issue one way or another because I'm not hardcore religious and don't raw dog.
Jewel Repetition has issued a correction as of 21:25 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 21:23
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Fallen Hamprince posted:no it's getting your poo poo pushed in by the loving lib dems lol lol wrong
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Dec 30, 2016 21:29
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corbyn's brexit strategy is really dumb and it's destroying labour
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Dec 30, 2016 21:31
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I'd be fine with some hand-wringing or lip service wrt abortion if it would really get us more voters. Better to compromise on that than the stuff lovely Democrats actually do compromise on. Then again I don't really care about abortion as an issue one way or another because I'm not religious and don't raw dog. Like what is the process by which you imagine hand wringing and lip service wrt abortion reliably wins you votes rather than hurting loyalty among groups for which it is important? Concerned Citizen posted:corbyn's brexit strategy is really dumb and it's destroying labour Labour MPs were hard at working destroying labour before Corbyn had a brexit strategy so that seems unlikely.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:36
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jBrereton posted:good I'm glad you guys can enjoy The Corbyn Factor in the US as we have been doing for a while here. honestly I can't think of anyone who actually likes Dershowitz any more on either side of the aisle like they'll cite him to back up whatever they're arguing but they still hate the annoying little poo poo
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Dec 30, 2016 21:39
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GlyphGryph posted:Labour MPs were hard at working destroying labour before Corbyn had a brexit strategy so that seems unlikely. well you have ukip/tories calling for brexit, you have lib dems saying we shouldn't brexit, and then labour who have the literal argument of "52% of the country voted for brexit so that's what we should do, but let's do it right!" if you can't make a moral argument for why your position is right and best for the nation, maybe it's the wrong position. the issue is that both corbyn and the rebel mps are hysterically incompetent.
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Dec 30, 2016 21:44
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Concerned Citizen posted:well you have ukip/tories calling for brexit, you have lib dems saying we shouldn't brexit, and then labour who have the literal argument of "52% of the country voted for brexit so that's what we should do, but let's do it right!" if you can't make a moral argument for why your position is right and best for the nation, maybe it's the wrong position. the issue is that both corbyn and the rebel mps are hysterically incompetent. I'm not sure why that middle position is any less capable of having a moral argument supporting it than the other two? I mean, British Labour is incompetent and divided so I will totally buy that they have failed to make a moral argument as to why that position is right and best for the nation, but you seem to think it's fundamentally impossible which is weird. Like if we just crested a steep hill and we're building up speed going down the other side, "Let's judiciously apply the breaks while navigating the safest possible path to the bottom, because at this point it would probably end poorly for us if we tried to turn around" seems just as if not more morally defensible as "Let's blast down this hill in a straight line at top speed!" and "Let's just do a quick 180 and start pedaling in the other direction" GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 21:53 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 21:50
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jeremy corbyn is like bernie sanders successfully ousted barack obama at the expense of losing half the party in a civil war only to reveal that he was really barack obama in a rubber suit the whole time
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Dec 30, 2016 21:52
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HorseRenoir posted:jeremy corbyn is like bernie sanders successfully ousted barack obama at the expense of losing half the party in a civil war only to reveal that he was really barack obama in a rubber suit the whole time i've seen like three people with that av in different colours, where's it from
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Dec 30, 2016 21:55
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GlyphGryph posted:I'm not sure why that middle position is any less capable of having a moral argument supporting it than the other two? well it would be more like if you had spent years insisting that the bottom of the hill would be a disaster for everyone in the car and end in ruin, and then once you go to the hill you say "well it's still a bad idea to go down this hill, but let's make the best of it folks." if you really believed it would end in disaster, surely you would not give up so easily? it seems weird to me to have a party to say "we won't stand in the way of an idea that we openly acknowledge is terrible."
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Dec 30, 2016 21:57
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not on topic, but does anyone remember the name of that black man who was convicted for murder but then had all eight (I believe) witnesses recant their testimonies? OT Peel posted:i've seen like three people with that av in different colours, where's it from Jeffrey by Young Thug
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Dec 30, 2016 22:00
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I'd be fine with some hand-wringing or lip service wrt abortion if it would really get us more voters. Better to compromise on that than the stuff lovely Democrats actually do compromise on. Then again I don't really care about abortion as an issue one way or another because I'm not hardcore religious and don't raw dog. good grief no. we absolutely do not need more mealy-mouthed hucksters making whiny noises about federal funding for family planning services in our caucus. the one good thing the Tea Party did was slay the majority of those cretins. even if these hypothetical people were economically left, i still wouldnt vote for them just on the basis of them being completely loving untrustworthy when it comes to womens health issues.
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Dec 30, 2016 22:43
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murder every millionaire imo
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Dec 30, 2016 22:49
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Terror Sweat posted:murder every millionaire imo dude you dont skin the sheep, you shear them
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Dec 30, 2016 22:52
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paranoid randroid posted:dude you dont skin the sheep, you shear them might take a different approach if the sheep were fueling their wool growth by gnawing off your leg
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Dec 30, 2016 22:59
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man you got hosed up sheep over there
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Dec 30, 2016 23:02
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The folly of compromise bore itself out during Obama's attempts to reach out to the gop. We need backbone and hormonal fortitude and we really should have that five years ago.
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Dec 30, 2016 23:13
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Peel posted:i've seen like three people with that av in different colours, where's it from Is it really different people? I always assumed it was a color changing gif with an insanely long time between frames
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Dec 30, 2016 23:16
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HorseRenoir posted:the best part is that he admits that he'll still vote D but just have a massive shitfit about it in public I say the dems could do well to have one less possible pedophile voting for it.
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Dec 30, 2016 23:32
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If we lose the pedophile vote then what demos do we have left
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Dec 30, 2016 23:37
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Grand Prize Winner posted:If we lose the pedophile vote then what demos do we have left If the republicans lost the pedo vote they would have no voter base except old church ladies.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:09
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Princess Di posted:If the republicans lost the pedo vote they would have no voter base except old church ladies. drat, there's 10s of millions of pedophiles in the us? Maybe those pizza gate dudes were on to something.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:14
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Ace of Baes posted:drat, there's 10s of millions of pedophiles in the us? Maybe those pizza gate dudes were on to something. i think this thread should go back to the previous title
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Dec 31, 2016 00:15
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Al! posted:i think this thread should go back to the previous title I was just poking fun and joshing around you rear end in a top hat mother fucker, you god drat SON OF A BITCH, YOU STUPID FUCKER.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:41
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https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/814977856774242305
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Dec 31, 2016 00:43
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Princess Di posted:If the republicans lost the pedo vote they would have no voter base except old church ladies. this means anthony weiner was a republican the whole time
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Dec 31, 2016 00:49
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i guess the money would go to "drunk wayne county teens"
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Dec 31, 2016 00:52
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We should donate money to have that mural fixed, but instead of a mural, it's a wooden house where we burn them all alive inside.
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Dec 31, 2016 01:05
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zegermans posted:We should donate money to have that mural fixed, but instead of a mural, it's a wooden house where we burn them all alive inside. when did you suddenly become a better poster
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Dec 31, 2016 01:07
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