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Kazinsal posted:My dude have you watched Ron Moore's fantastic sci-fi drama Galactica? Those are still conventions of sci-fi. Even the freaking Jupiter 2 had shields. Or the Galactica in the 70s.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:14
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Sash! posted:Those are still conventions of sci-fi. Even the freaking Jupiter 2 had shields. Or the Galactica in the 70s.
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Dec 31, 2016 00:26
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How readable are the Lensmen novels today? I find a lot of old sci-fi really hard to read based on the dense writing style. It seems like writers in the 60s seemed to loosen up.
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Dec 31, 2016 01:39
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WickedHate posted:No, what makes it hard to go back to is the loving ABSTRACT MAZE LEVEL DESIGN but I'm apparently alone in despising that part of the game so I don't think there is a person in this thread who wouldn't loving love if TOS/TNG etc was still putting out new content thanks to a mod scene I mean, thanks to those insane, wonderful editors on youtube it kinda sorta is Tighclops posted:Yeah, I really love Star Trek but I've been saying for years I'm not really interested in more of it for these reasons. I'm looking forward to season 2 of The Expanse, how is the new Star Trek series supposed to stay relevant in the face of a show like that? Stargate couldn't, even after pivoting hard to be like the last space opera that was culturally relevant (BSG) Don't get me wrong I want to see them actually try as opposed to cargo culting prior incarnations of the franchise, but how far can you go before you might as well just make up a whole new idea and do that instead of trying to call it Star Trek? This is pretty much how I feel about the franchise at this point. It was good, but you might as well break it down into the fundamentals and try to make something new or different with it. Or even say "I'm going to make a Sci-fi series with a postive vision of the future or something.
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Dec 31, 2016 01:40
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Nebakenezzer posted:I don't think there is a person in this thread who wouldn't loving love if TOS/TNG etc was still putting out new content thanks to a mod scene Oh ho ho, yes there is. 
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Dec 31, 2016 01:48
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twistedmentat posted:How readable are the Lensmen novels today? I find a lot of old sci-fi really hard to read based on the dense writing style. It seems like writers in the 60s seemed to loosen up. Lensman is worth reading if you like space opera at all. The writing is a little rough/corny, but not what I would call hard to read. Try the first couple chapters of Galactic Patrol. If you don't like that you probably won't like the rest of the books.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:08
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skasion posted:Lensman is worth reading if you like space opera at all. The writing is a little rough/corny, but not what I would call hard to read. Try the first couple chapters of Galactic Patrol. If you don't like that you probably won't like the rest of the books. Skip the intro lead-in chapters, they were added later and kinda spoil some twists.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:14
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MisterBibs posted:Plus, poo poo, didn't Enterprise launch long after TV in general abandoned the "oh give the show a few years to find itself" idiom? There was no inherent reason that Enterprise, or Voyager, or any other post-TNG Trek should have had a rough start. TNG's first couple of seasons were rough because of Gene Roddenberry's raging ego and drugged-up senility. Any failure to quickly figure out what would make the show work rests entirely on the producers. It's also interesting to me that the first two years of DS9 were the years where Michael Piller was executive producer... WickedHate posted:Just wanna say Classic Doom is the worst possible comparison because the original Final/Doom/II set has proven to be one of the most timeless games pretty much ever and still has hours put into it by the truckload. Part of this is due to the extensive modding scene, granted, but even vanilla I'd say the idea that it's "hard to go back to" because it's so simple is absurd. This is a derail, but while the mazes could get a little dense, fixating too hard on realistic environments can be detrimental to gameplay as well.
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Dec 31, 2016 03:54
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Tunicate posted:Skip the intro lead-in chapters, they were added later and kinda spoil some twists. Why were they added at all? Was it to make new readers have an easier time getting into the books?
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Dec 31, 2016 03:56
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MisterBibs posted:That's my point: I think those things were dumb too, but in Star Trek your lead ship has to have laser beams, glowing bombs, and something that goes down by 24% when an alien ship fires on it. Enterprise didn't have an opportunity to do anything different, its nature as a prequel meant it was constrained to being the early version of poo poo We Already Knew. That's not at all the case. They could have said "in this show, we don't have phasers or transporters or shields, because that poo poo hasn't been invented yet." I mean, gently caress, they weren't even calling it "Star Trek" for the first couple of seasons, it was just "Enterprise"! If someone said "nuhhh that's not star trek" they could have said "yeah, you're fuckin' right it isn't Star Trek, good job looking at the title cards dipshit!" They had yet another golden opportunity and they loving flushed it down the drain.
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Dec 31, 2016 04:02
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MrJacobs posted:Why were they added at all? Was it to make new readers have an easier time getting into the books? Honestly not sure, I guess to bookend the series when going serial->anthology? Add bonus content? Dunno.
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Dec 31, 2016 04:06
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Tunicate posted:Skip the intro lead-in chapters, they were added later and kinda spoil some twists. Wait what? This is news to me. Where did Galactic Patrol start if not with them graduating?
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Dec 31, 2016 04:10
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skasion posted:Wait what? This is news to me. Where did Galactic Patrol start if not with them graduating? The tacked-on chapters with the Arisian shenanigans. I might be thinking of triplanetary?
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Dec 31, 2016 04:25
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OK, I'm getting into TOS now. I'm up to Miri and I don't know how it's generally regarded but I can definitely feel the 'Trek' spirit that persisted into TNG. Best episode of TOS yet. It's got the flaws any 50 year old TV show is going to have but it's entertaining.
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Dec 31, 2016 04:37
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Tunicate posted:The tacked-on chapters with the Arisian shenanigans. I might be thinking of triplanetary? Triplanetary was definitely heavily edited from its original form, it originally wasn't connected to Lensman at all
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Dec 31, 2016 04:39
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The remastered/Bluray Trouble with Tribbles doesn't have any of the DS9 bits inserted in, does it?
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Dec 31, 2016 04:41
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:There was no inherent reason that Enterprise, or Voyager, or any other post-TNG Trek should have had a rough start. I disagree, since every post-TNG series (hell, TNG itself) needed a few seasons to find its footing. That's enough of a data point to say Trek series need time to figure out that they want to do. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's not at all the case. They could have said "in this show, we don't have phasers or transporters or shields, because "no that poo poo hasn't been invented yet" Nah, you have to have them in some way or form, because you're beholden to it as a Star Trek prequel. You can't do "no that poo poo hasn't invented yet", because then it's not Star Trek anymore. Acting like Enterprise was a glorious opportunity to do new things is buying into the marketing nonsense. Enterprise was trapped as much as any other Trek instance from day one.
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Dec 31, 2016 05:02
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MisterBibs posted:= So all those episodes where they don't use shields, transporters, or phasers don't count as Star Trek?
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Dec 31, 2016 05:22
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Alternately, since Gene Roddenberry and Rick Berman were there from the beginning of TNG, and Berman oversaw every sequel series and selected every producer, we could say that the common data point was not so much "it's a Star Trek series" as it was "it's a Rick Berman production."MisterBibs posted:Nah, you have to have them in some way or form, because you're beholden to it as a Star Trek prequel. You can't do "no that poo poo hasn't invented yet", because then it's not Star Trek anymore. So, your argument comes down to "Voyager and Enterprise were doomed because no matter who was in charge, they could never have been anything else", is that it?
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Dec 31, 2016 05:24
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Drink-Mix Man posted:So all those episodes where they don't use shields, transporters, or phasers don't count as Star Trek? They count, because they are still doing Trek as the Trek formula requires it. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:So, your argument comes down to "Voyager and Enterprise were doomed because no matter who was in charge, they could never have been anything else", is that it? All they could've been was Trek, and by the time of Voyager and Enterprise the audiences that made TNG so loved were no longer interested in Trek, yes. Sometimes a franchise needs to go away for a while because not a lot of people wanted to watch it. Trek was clearly that after TNG.
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Dec 31, 2016 05:33
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The_Doctor posted:The remastered/Bluray Trouble with Tribbles doesn't have any of the DS9 bits inserted in, does it? No, but it does have an entire disc of tribbles poo poo. The OG episode with optional commentary, the Ds9 ep(DVD, not remastered) , the animated series ep and some kind of documentary about them.
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Dec 31, 2016 05:35
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Watching Season 2 of Angie Tribeca and Johnathan Frakes is in an episode. I think he's slowly morphing into William Shatner.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:08
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why does everyone remember that tribble episode?
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Dec 31, 2016 06:12
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's not at all the case. They could have said "in this show, we don't have phasers or transporters or shields, because that poo poo hasn't been invented yet." I mean, gently caress, they weren't even calling it "Star Trek" for the first couple of seasons, it was just "Enterprise"! If someone said "nuhhh that's not star trek" they could have said "yeah, you're fuckin' right it isn't Star Trek, good job looking at the title cards dipshit!" They had yet another golden opportunity and they loving flushed it down the drain. I feel like a Trek show in which the tech themes centered around humanity transitioning from slug-throwers and bulky hull plating into magic laser beams and invisible shields could have been an interesting thing to see. You know, an industrial revolution of sorts. Surely there are some stories there.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:18
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Data Graham posted:I feel like a Trek show in which the tech themes centered around humanity transitioning from slug-throwers and bulky hull plating into magic laser beams and invisible shields could have been an interesting thing to see. Yeah the Vulcans traded these things with humans in exchange for some badass earth drugs.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:50
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Dicky mouse posted:why does everyone remember that tribble episode? Which one? In either case, the answer is because it is good, and fun.
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Dec 31, 2016 06:52
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MrJacobs posted:Yeah the Vulcans traded these things with humans in exchange for some badass earth drugs. Or as Sarek found out, Earth girls are easy
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Dec 31, 2016 07:19
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Data Graham posted:I feel like a Trek show in which the tech themes centered around humanity transitioning from slug-throwers and bulky hull plating into magic laser beams and invisible shields could have been an interesting thing to see. I'd be okay with bullet-guns, but honestly I didn't even need that much. Just the lack of a stun setting, or any kind of dial-a-setting at all, would have been plenty for me. "This will kill what you point it at, but instead of having to lug around crates of bullets, we can just recharge the batteries." Definitely no shields or shield-like tech though. Space combat should have been rare, and it should have been a nail-biting "oh poo poo, some of our crew are probably going to die" situation every time.
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Dec 31, 2016 07:30
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they could have had like lightning-firing super-tasers to stun people
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Dec 31, 2016 07:48
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Farscape managed to go how long without having a weapon on their ship?
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Dec 31, 2016 07:49
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I don't wanna be That Girl and pick on a poster who gets a lot of hate already, but MisterBibbs, as cool as I'm sure he is as a person, has this really grating, stubborn refusal to accept minor variations in setting as being Not My X, and this is just a rehash of a recent argument with him people had in PYF over Fallout. To anyone else, it's pretty obvious Enterprise could have been a lot better if they had really tried to make it more prequel-y with stuff like not using shield-like systems or transporters.
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 07:54
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Just put him on ignore like everyone else.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:13
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The worst part about Enterprise's polarized hull plating wasn't even the fact that it was a transparent word substitution for shields (although that was pretty awful), but just that it sounded completely ridiculous. I just don't understand how anyone can be invested in the idea of cast members shouting out random percentages as a method of building tension. Hell, the final battle in Wrath of Khan is probably one of the most iconic battle scenes in the franchise and there are no shields.
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Dec 31, 2016 08:44
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The movies do have the benefit of a higher budget that allows them to get away with busting their models up like they do. On the other hand, Enterprise was CGI, no? If so they really didn't have that excuse.
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Dec 31, 2016 09:43
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Paradoxish posted:The worst part about Enterprise's polarized hull plating wasn't even the fact that it was a transparent word substitution for shields (although that was pretty awful), but just that it sounded completely ridiculous. I just don't understand how anyone can be invested in the idea of cast members shouting out random percentages as a method of building tension. Hell, the final battle in Wrath of Khan is probably one of the most iconic battle scenes in the franchise and there are no shields. Doesn't polarizing the hull create some kind of magnetic magic field to help deflect poo poo but is totally useless against scanners, transporters, and everything else shields protected against?
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Dec 31, 2016 11:20
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WickedHate posted:I don't wanna be That Girl and pick on a poster who gets a lot of hate already, but MisterBibbs, as cool as I'm sure he is as a person, has this really grating, stubborn refusal to accept minor variations in setting as being Not My X, and this is just a rehash of a recent argument with him people had in PYF over Fallout. To anyone else, it's pretty obvious Enterprise could have been a lot better if they had really tried to make it more prequel-y with stuff like not using shield-like systems or transporters. Fallout and Star Trek, fittingly enough, have their similarities in this department. They both needed time away to be forgotten and lie fallow for a bit, to allow their core interest to come back into favor (after a period of dislike) unbeholden by earlier links. Tactics and BoS are Trek's DS9 and Voyager, and what Fallout got with Fallout 3, Star Trek got with JJTrek. A franchise cannot always continue the way it was and you can't rejigger it to life: you need to shelve it until it's interesting again to audiences. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Dec 31, 2016 |
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Dec 31, 2016 11:46
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What really bugged me is that they couldn't even use new sound or visual effects for the "phase" weapons or "photonic" torpedoes. They're literally the same noises from Voyager, the beams are the same colour although I think they appear and dissapear faster in ENT. What was the point?
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Dec 31, 2016 12:34
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GutBomb posted:OK, I'm getting into TOS now. I'm up to Miri and I don't know how it's generally regarded but I can definitely feel the 'Trek' spirit that persisted into TNG. Best episode of TOS yet. It's got the flaws any 50 year old TV show is going to have but it's entertaining. Miri's got a bit of a bad rap, but I think that's mostly because the "planet identical to Earth" part is ridiculous and some people really hate child actors. It's not great, but it's not as bad as a lot of people remember, either.
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Dec 31, 2016 12:58
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MrJacobs posted:Doesn't polarizing the hull create some kind of magnetic magic field to help deflect poo poo but is totally useless against scanners, transporters, and everything else shields protected against? Nah, it's meant to be like a real world thing where you apply a polarised magnetic field to certain materials to dramatically increase strength. The percentage poo poo was just writers being amazingly lazy.
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Dec 31, 2016 14:20
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Even the percentage thing makes sense, if you take it to mean efficiency of the power system. The lower the percentage, the less it's able to disperse the attacking energy and then that system starts to overload the rest. I mean, it's partly dumb in that Starfleet has never heard of fuses, circuit breakers, or any sort of safety system at all, but still.
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Dec 31, 2016 14:49
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