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Fojar38 posted:Problem: Rogue One is, in fact, a Star Wars movie The point being that it fails on many simple movie levels and relies entirely on established SW tropes and imagery (and action schlock and OMG VADER KILLING PEOPLE).
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Jan 2, 2017 02:11
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Jonas Albrecht posted:And that shouldn't be what carries it. Fine, but there has to be a better way to argue that then "pretend it isn't a Star Wars movie." It is a Star Wars movie and what's more, a Star Wars prequel, so I don't see why it can't be judged based on that context?
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Jan 2, 2017 02:13
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ceaselessfuture posted:The point being that it fails on many simple movie levels and relies entirely on established SW tropes and imagery (and action schlock and OMG VADER KILLING PEOPLE). This is a better argument and as it turns out most people just want to see things happen in the Star Wars setting, hence this movies financial success
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Jan 2, 2017 02:14
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Fojar38 posted:This is a better argument and as it turns out most people just want to see things happen in the Star Wars setting, hence this movies financial success Yeah, the problem with modern blockbusters, neatly put. And to put a bow on just how asinine Star Wars fans are, ask just about any of them what they want to see in the Han Solo solo Star Wars movie, and the answer is almost always "the Kessel Run".
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Jan 2, 2017 02:18
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Fojar38 posted:This is a better argument and as it turns out most people just want to see things happen in the Star Wars setting, hence this movies financial success Yep, for sure. I wish people demanded more out of their entertainment (if only because then we'd get more great SW movies!) but my personal elitism doesn't change this very simple fact.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:19
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He made a good point about main character's dad being an infinitely more interesting character right from the get go. Hell, even dead he was still more memorable than everyone but force monk.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:20
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Jonas Albrecht posted:the Kessel Run".
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Jan 2, 2017 02:28
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temple posted:Why is that a bad thing? Why is wanting to see legendary events like the dumbest gayest thing ever to people? Cause it will disappoint. People craft these ideas in their own brains, and 99% of the time when a movie tries to give you those legendary moments it winds up lackluster to what people dreamed up on their own. And then the lackluster adaptation is solidified as canon.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:31
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temple posted:Why is that a bad thing? Why is wanting to see legendary events like the dumbest gayest thing ever to people? Cause it's not a real event. It was a dumb bluff, a little character moment that fans, in their infinite lack of imagination, willed into becoming an actual thing. "Legendary events" jfc.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:31
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temple posted:Why is that a bad thing? Why is wanting to see legendary events like the dumbest gayest thing ever to people? It's the only notable moment in Han's career that isn't OT oriented. It would be cooler if the writers could come up with something else. Once they do a Kessel Run movie, what then? That's the real question.
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Jan 2, 2017 02:31
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While I disagree on half of what they said, they at least found the humour in it, and had some basis to place their opinion on and didn't compare it to a movie that doesn't exist. ceaselessfuture posted:I think their main point, which is "if Rogue One wasn't a Star Wars movie, no one would like it," is completely correct. See: John Carter. I always thought their main point was "This isn't this perfect imaginary movie I wanted therefore it sucked" instead of seeing the movie as what it was. Removing Star Wars out of the movie would of course collapse it since it is the foundation it is built on like TFA. It's ridiculous to complaint about that as it would lead to the same result with any movie where it is based on an existing mythology. John Carter sucked because John Carter sucked. There are plenty of Sci-Fi movies hard and soft or fantasy that don't suck that aren't based on an existing universe. ceaselessfuture posted:The point being that it fails on many simple movie levels and relies entirely on established SW tropes and imagery (and action schlock and OMG VADER KILLING PEOPLE). I really don't see R1 fails as much as you make out as especially compared to TFA where it was completely based on nostalgia, blatant copying and fan wank with a first film advantage that is too scared to be it's own Star Wars movie that had a opening scroll that told you a negative amount of information. These are the same charges you lay on R1 yet pass over on TFA. You have made the same mistake as the RLM crew. R1 stands well on it's own within the SW universe while TFA completely leans and steals from it. R1's characters may not be memorable for some, but for me I don't hate them like I did with TFA. They might not be particularly interesting since they are normal people with normal abilities, but one of the best scenes for Jyn and the actor is the very one everyone cries about. Jyn gives her rousing speech to the Rebels to get them to fight drawing on her new found idealism and she utterly fails, because guess what? She is a normal person who is lucky to be even be able to give the speech at all rather than getting told to shut up because she was out of order(This would have lead to the lovely politics SW doesn't need).
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Jan 2, 2017 02:55
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If you remove the Alien from Alien it's just people with a bad case of the flu flipping the gently caress out.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:10
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:If you remove the Alien from Alien it's just people with a bad case of the flu flipping the gently caress out. Imagine if Aliens had no Aliens and it was just Bishop loving with everyone by spiking their drink with drugs while recording the results as they accidentally kill each other. While likely utterly hilarious, it would miss the entire point of setting the movie in the Alien universe.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:25
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What if all movies turned out to be grandpa columbo reading a bedtime story to kevin from the wonder years??
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Jan 2, 2017 03:29
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It was all a dream??! Awww gently caress this poo poo. Never watching movies again.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:35
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Shinjobi posted:I think this thread is on the verge of winding up in CineD again.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:51
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For the record I actually level all these charges at TFA as well, just with the exception that the writing in TFA was generally a bit stronger and we actually understood character motivations and their growth. Ultimately I think a lot of people are okay with a movie that appeals to their likes and that's fine, I just wanted something more than that personally. With both movies. edit - The difference between taking the Alien out of Alien is that the Alien is a character. Star Wars is a setting. Alien as a serial killer exists and it's great -- it's just called Halloween. ceaselessfuture fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 04:13
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watching rich play some D44M. i dont know if it's his first time but he's not playing on nightmare :/
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Jan 2, 2017 04:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQlPr3hxXuA
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Jan 2, 2017 04:19
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Je suis fatigue posted:matt damon fights chinese demons Whoa, what? That sounds great ceaselessfuture posted:I think their main point, which is "if Rogue One wasn't a Star Wars movie, no one would like it," is completely correct. See: John Carter. I liked John Carter, kind of. I get sad when I think about how confidently the end set up a sequel
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Jan 2, 2017 04:38
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I heard a lot of people say they liked John Carter. Funny how its used brought up as a failure. (same for After Earth)
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Jan 2, 2017 04:42
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Relin posted:watching rich play some D44M. i dont know if it's his first time but he's not playing on nightmare :/ Rich Evans hates online games and he has many internal justifications for this trait but really its just because he is super bad at games. That's okay though. The few games he is good at he is really good at.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:52
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Shinjobi posted:He made a good point about main character's dad being an infinitely more interesting character right from the get go. god bless you for causing me to rewatching this. top tier mike and rich evans content.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:52
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temple posted:Why is that a bad thing? Why is wanting to see legendary events like the dumbest gayest thing ever to people? Clone wars.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:57
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Guy Goodbody posted:Whoa, what? That sounds great It's not it's a giant turd, albeit a giant turd that was heavily subsidized by the Chinese Communist Party so go and see it if you want to see what a bunch of Chinese oligarchs think will win over foreign audiences (it's a bumbling white idiot being taught superior Chinese values and wisdom)
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Jan 2, 2017 04:57
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I gotta know what the brother was getting mom and dad for Christmas! How can they leave us hanging?
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Jan 2, 2017 05:10
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The Great Wall looks really dull. Bland looking CGI monsters vs bland CGI action.
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Jan 2, 2017 05:16
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that "documentary comment", forget the cgi characters apparently some people don't realize Star Wars is not loving real
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Jan 2, 2017 05:22
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I just wish these new Star Wars movies would have more new spaceships, so there would be more spaceships to use in X-Wing the Miniatures Game.
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Jan 2, 2017 05:24
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God drat you star wars fanboys are the worst. Im glad RLM keeps baiting you turds.
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Jan 2, 2017 05:27
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HIJK posted:It's the only notable moment in Han's career that isn't OT oriented. It would be cooler if the writers could come up with something else. Winning the falcon from Lando
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Jan 2, 2017 05:29
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Fojar38 posted:Fine, but there has to be a better way to argue that then "pretend it isn't a Star Wars movie." It is a Star Wars movie and what's more, a Star Wars prequel, so I don't see why it can't be judged based on that context? This is an argument I've made about things sort of in the opposite way, though: Terminator Salvation is a decent enough generic post-apoc movie, but I don't think it's a good Terminator movie. Genisys is an okay generic comic book movie, but I don't think it's a good Terminator film. Ghostbusters 2016 is an okay comic book comedy movie, but I don't think it's a good Ghostbusters. Along those lines and following some Rich and Jack talk from Pre-Rec: I started playing Dragon's Dogma based on their review, and it is fun enough, but about near the end of playing it all I could think of was how great this engine might be with a Ghostbusters license on it and you were doing jobs throughout a city instead of roaming the countryside doing quests.
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Jan 2, 2017 06:41
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Fojar38 posted:Problem: Rogue One is, in fact, a Star Wars movie It's definitely a "Star Wars" something but the only adjective that should be applied to the "movie" part is "bad." If you like Star Wars poo poo to the point where you enjoy making up your own backstory ideas to filling in the gaping holes and like reading between imaginary lines that aren't actually told or shown then I guess it's entertaining for you. And if that's the case, great! I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was made for you, and that's awesome. As a movie made for the general moviegoing audience it's just plain bad. None of the things that people actually enjoy about good movies or even *good stories* are there. And gently caress if I'm going to make up backstories and justify these non-characters. I don't care about Star Wars at all, so there was absolutely nothing there to grab me. That's why the whole first 2/3s were boring as gently caress, and the end only perked up because some poo poo was actually happening, even though it was absurd video game switch-pulling nonsense. I mean, I go to watch these Star Wars movies more out of a sense of cultural obligation (everyone is going to be talking about them for a month so I should be informed), and I'm losing any hope that any of them might actually be an enjoyable experience for me. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 06:52
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I have no idea why the RLM guys like Star Trek Beyond
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Jan 2, 2017 07:44
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Probably because it was a fun little space adventure with well-drawn characters, even if it was about as deep as a new york pizza. Basically I think they liked it because it's in the increasingly-rare category of a 'spectacle/franchise' movie that is actually entertaining. I don't think any of them consider it high art or anything.
ashpanash fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 08:04
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Mu Zeta posted:I have no idea why the RLM guys like Star Trek Beyond I can't recall their Beyond review, but for people who liked it, I can see some reasons why. I can see the argument of it toned down a lot of the stuff of the other two films and stopped relying on Kirk being horny hothead all the time, it gave the entire crew bits of stuff to do after the last film was the Uhura/Spock/Kirk-centric movie, not every scene was about characters being angry, it had a nod to the TOS cast, it felt like it was maybe getting ready for a start of a new story arc for the next few films, etc. On the other hand, I think there are reasons to dislike it, too. It doesn't have as good an 'opening' bit as JJTrek 1 or STID, I think the story needed a lot more work done because it feels like something that never quite gets where it wants to go, there really isn't a single standout moment, it feels sort of shallow, did we really need MORE new characters to join our team when previous films had trouble finding stuff for the crew to do. If not for the need to get these movies out on a schedule, I do think it probably needed another year in development before production to get the kinks worked out of the story. For all my issues with Trek 2009, I still contend it's pretty fun and it sort of accomplishes what it attempts to do.
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Jan 2, 2017 08:08
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Beyond did have a massive advantage that the characters had a whole Trek mythology to lean on and to fill in the blanks that may or may not have existed. Beyond was sort of acceptable following the last 2 trash movies.
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Jan 2, 2017 08:11
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Beyond was alright, but just that. I still don't know why they concealed the identity of the villain other than to have a 3rd act twist.
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Jan 2, 2017 08:13
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I've said it before, if Into Darkness had never existed, Beyond seems like it could have benefited from having Khan as a villain instead of whoever they had. I'll go so far as to say that the twist could have even worked better: "My name is Khan!" by some prideful superhuman who has become an unrecognizable self-hating 'inhuman' due to life extending alien technology could have played as an alteration of the Khan mythos in the new timeline. edit: Maybe there's wreckage of the Botany Bay on the planet, you have a CG recording of Ricardo Montelban describing events from decades earlier, etc. JediTalentAgent fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 08:16
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I thought the villain of Beyond would have worked better if it was one of Khan's underlings trying to resurrect Khan the whole time rather than "no really, this is your superhuman villain"
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Jan 2, 2017 08:50
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