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Man, the Puns in the Dragon quest 7 translation are real laugh. I did the one island where there was a time loop, and when I saw the boss was called "The time being", I had the biggest grin on my face as I fought him. I wonder who has to come up with all the puns in the modern remakes/translations.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:00
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Pharohman777 posted:Man, the Puns in the Dragon quest 7 translation are real laugh. I did the one island where there was a time loop, and when I saw the boss was called "The time being", I had the biggest grin on my face as I fought him. These guys.
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Dec 29, 2016 05:02
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Last Celebration posted:Yeah, Vogograd is a definitely a great place to take a week off, it's just the worst (storywise). The worst part of the game was the Frobisher area. Tons of backtracking, boring story, and it's extremely long when you just want to get to the jobs which are soon after.
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Dec 29, 2016 16:04
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Their company is named "Shloc"? That's perfectly in character with the puns they make when they translate 
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Dec 29, 2016 16:22
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Bigass Moth posted:The worst part of the game was the Frobisher area. Tons of backtracking, boring story, and it's extremely long when you just want to get to the jobs which are soon after. Yeah I have to say that's easily the worst stretch of DQ7. Any area after you get jobs is at least mitigated by the fact that you can stare at how cute Ruff looks in most job outfits 
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Dec 29, 2016 19:08
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Bigass Moth posted:The worst part of the game was the Frobisher area. Tons of backtracking, boring story, and it's extremely long when you just want to get to the jobs which are soon after. I remember Frobisher dragging, but as someone else said before, a town has to gently caress up on a grand scale for Ruff to just flat out say "I don't think I like Vogograd".
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Dec 29, 2016 19:08
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So that guy who was.having.troubke with the people in chapter 4 not cooking isn't alone. I just brought back the sages and they still won't cook anything for me.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:28
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DQ producer Miyabe on making DQ sell in the west:quote:“We’re still trying! [Laughs] It’s a topic we have been thinking about a lot internally: the question of why Final Fantasy is so much more popular than Dragon Quest in the west. One conclusion that we’ve reached is that it’s a question of historical timing. When the Famicom came out, Dragon Quest was the key game everyone was playing. But when the PlayStation came out, Final Fantasy VII was the game that everyone was playing. So the source of nostalgia is different for both groups: in Japan it’s Dragon Quest while overseas it’s Final Fantasy. The truth is that if we’d put a lot of effort into localising Dragon Quest at the time, we probably wouldn’t be facing this issue today. I probably shouldn’t be saying this, but we kind of messed up in that regard.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:37
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I would say Miyabe is sort of off the mark. To say that Enix missed its window of opportunity for DQ relevancy due to not having an early PS1 mega-hit in the US is kind of missing the point. I hate to get all armchair marketer, but I feel like I can talk about this with a degree of confidence. A significant part of FF7's success can arguably be attributed to the solid amount of SNES era groundwork Square built up in the mid-90s leading up to FF7's PS1 release, with things like FF6 and Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG that raised brand awareness. In contrast, Enix absolutely neglected DQ in the west. Even in the NES era, Nintendo was the one to translate the Dragon Warriors, IIRC. Enix's steadfast refusal to make serious efforts at large game translations until the PS1 era was what shot it in the foot more than anything else. Dragon Warrior 4 was released in the US in October 1992, and Dragon Warrior 7 was released in October 2001. That's a nine year gap, and let's be real here, DQ7 was kind of an ugly duckling of a game even compared to FF7's rudimentary early 3D, so by the time it came out, it was way too little, way too late, to create any sort of awareness or relevancy in the collective RPG gamer consciousness. That said, it could have come out at the same time as FF7 in 1997 and the same result would have happened, solely due to that lack of SNES era groundwork. Imagine how big DQ could have been if there had been Dragon Warrior games coming out in the mid-90s right when Dragon Ball Z was becoming super popular on American TV. That missed window right there is why it never hit peak relevance the way FF did. Edit: One more thing to add - To say that they adhered strongly to the DQ "core element" in the western release of DQ8 is disingenuous, considering that they overhauled the menus and removed all the cheesy sound effects that were peak DQ. It came across to me like they were trying to demonstrate DQ was cool, while simultaneously acting ashamed of being DQ and trying to disguise it with makeup. Hokuto fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 04:03
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I think Japan just has way more nerds.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:22
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Hokuto posted:I would say Miyabe is sort of off the mark. To say that Enix missed its window of opportunity for DQ relevancy due to not having an early PS1 mega-hit in the US is kind of missing the point. I hate to get all armchair marketer, but I feel like I can talk about this with a degree of confidence. I think you are partly right, but it was the large delay in the early DQ releases that let FF beat it to the punch in the west and become the poster-child for RPG, even before we got into the SNES era: DQ 1: August, 1989 FF 1: July, 1990 DQ 2: September, 1990 FF 4: November, 1991 DQ 3: March, 1992 DQ 4: October, 1992 DQ 2 was way overshadowed by FF 1 by the time it came out, not to mention the fact that FF 1 was being heavily promoted by Nintendo much the way DQ 1 was. And of course by the time we got DQ 3 and 4 the NES was going into decline, and the much more advanced FF 4 had been out for several months. If we'd gotten those NES games closer to their Japanese release dates, they might have been able to generate a stronger following in the west. The complete abandonment of the west for the SNES era absolutely put the nail in the coffin though.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:39
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Nemo2342 posted:DQ 2 was way overshadowed by FF 1 by the time it came out, not to mention the fact that FF 1 was being heavily promoted by Nintendo much the way DQ 1 was. And of course by the time we got DQ 3 and 4 the NES was going into decline, and the much more advanced FF 4 had been out for several months. If we'd gotten those NES games closer to their Japanese release dates, they might have been able to generate a stronger following in the west. The complete abandonment of the west for the SNES era absolutely put the nail in the coffin though. You know, I hadn't even considered the timing of FF4's release. That's a great point to add.
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Jan 2, 2017 04:42
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Len posted:Tantegal is just not fun in any way. Cantlin was the best chapter so far. I'm only on chapter 2, but I'm already pretty pissy that they: Made me start over, changed most of the recipes, make me build the majority of the town from dirt because they don't give me a teleportal for a week and a half, then send enemies that destroy multiple dirt bricks and spawn immediately adjacent to the city
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Jan 2, 2017 06:11
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Hokuto posted:Even in the NES era, Nintendo was the one to translate the Dragon Warriors, IIRC. Nintendo only did the first one. Enix America did 2-4 (and did it quite well, IMO). I also agree with DQ not being popular due to the missteps during the SNES era. They really screwed us for the long haul. I want to say Miyabe is right about the asthetic tastes of Westerners, but there are immensely popular cartoony games out there that all ages play - World of Warcraft and Team Fortress 2, for example. So I dunno. The Tales series does okay, doesn't it? And that's anime as all gently caress. Hokuto posted:Edit: One more thing to add - To say that they adhered strongly to the DQ "core element" in the western release of DQ8 is disingenuous, considering that they overhauled the menus and removed all the cheesy sound effects that were peak DQ. It came across to me like they were trying to demonstrate DQ was cool, while simultaneously acting ashamed of being DQ and trying to disguise it with makeup. This pissed me off, as a fan of the series. I enjoy the stairs and spell sound effects, it's not really DQ without them. The demo disc had them, so this must've been a last-minute decision.
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Jan 2, 2017 08:23
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The Final Chapter never got better. It's the only one I rushed through because it was just bland and awful. Everything else I took my time and explored for so this is the first one I got the challenge of beating it quickly done.
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Jan 2, 2017 18:15
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I coulda sworn 8 had those sound effects but maybe Im misremembering.
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Jan 2, 2017 19:17
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Here's a comparison of both audio and visual differences, using the same fight in Japanese and English. Japanese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj2Y27J8ofU&t=55s English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=artG-GooLOk&t=75s The Japanese menu is straight up black and white DQ menu, like all the older games had. The English menu, by comparison, tries to pretty it up with some blue and white and more modern font usage. To its credit, it adds face pictures to the status screen between rounds, which is nice. Sound effect wise, you can see that the Japanese version uses cheesy old sound effects for friendly attacks, hostile attacks, and casting spells. The English version takes all of these out. But the most egregious thing, not shown here, is the field menu change, because they went from a quick and efficient Japanese DQ menu that you can call up immediately and it only takes up part of the screen, to this bulky English thing that has load time when you want to pull it up and transitions to a completely different screen. I hope that's improved in the re-release. Hokuto fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 20:17
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Len posted:The Final Chapter never got better. It's the only one I rushed through because it was just bland and awful. Everything else I took my time and explored for so this is the first one I got the challenge of beating it quickly done. what? the final chapter was great. certainly better than the garbo second chapter at least. i mean i beat the speed one too, but only because sleep wasn't at all necessary.
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Jan 2, 2017 20:31
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Len posted:The Final Chapter never got better. It's the only one I rushed through because it was just bland and awful. Everything else I took my time and explored for so this is the first one I got the challenge of beating it quickly done. I... I don't understand. I don't know what you were expecting, or what would have made you happy. How can any chapter with the Bashmobile be bad???
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Jan 2, 2017 20:32
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Even with their "we're ashamed of our own series" design changes to DQ8 they'd caused problems back in the SNES era with their fuckups. The worse, by far, being the advertisement of DQ6 in Nintendo Power and elsewhere, only to never actually release the game here in the end. They didn't do themselves any favors with how they managed to fuckup 7th Saga's English version either. Or that they never bring Terranigma to the US.  Enix did publish E.V.O. though, for which we should always be grateful because that game was awesome. And apparently the predecessor game has an English patch now.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:26
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5 and 6 are really good games and we never got them on consoles. maybe they would have been a hit on snes, maybe not. nostalgia sells video games, but there wasn't much of a chance for anyone outside of japan to be nostalgic for the series. 4 is also really good, but as others have said, it came late in the life cycle of nes and never really caught on.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:44
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Dragon Quest V would probably not have gone over well in the graphics-obsessed US market of the early 90s.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:46
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I'm really quite certain that with proper (read: any) marketing, DQ5 and 6 would have done just fine on SNES and we'd be living in a much different world today.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:47
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That especially goes for 6. FF6 might have had really fancy graphics and monster art, but DQ6 (and 3 remake) could have made a whole selling point out of monsters having real, honest-to-goodness attack animations. It was a really big point of distinction back in the day, though of course now it's considered the norm with things like Pokemon even having idle animations for monsters.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:50
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:5 and 6 are really good games and we never got them on consoles. maybe they would have been a hit on snes, maybe not. nostalgia sells video games, but there wasn't much of a chance for anyone outside of japan to be nostalgic for the series. 4 is also really good, but as others have said, it came late in the life cycle of nes and never really caught on. DQ6 could've done well here aside from Mudo being an absolute fucker of a boss fight. Thank god for frame skip on emulators because you needed a ton of luck or a bunch of grinding to deal with him. e: Nintendo Power also had articles about the DQ1&2 and DQ3 remakes for SFC too now that I think about it.  vvv 7th Saga would've been a perfectly average RPG if the English version's leveling system wasn't so inexplicably hosed for apprentices in your party (and only them, making late game duels impossible to win). I never got around to trying Mystic Ark but I think that's translated now as well. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 23:56
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And let's not forget that garbage RPGs like 7th Saga were getting US releases, and from what I understand didn't sell all that poorly since back in those days you took whatever JRPGs glorious Nippon deigned to give us.
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Jan 2, 2017 23:57
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Evil Fluffy posted:And apparently the predecessor game has an English patch now. There's a predecessor to EVO? 
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Jan 3, 2017 02:59
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The thing that gets me about DQ in the west is they somehow managed to completely squander the opportunity to piggyback off the DBZ mega-hype from the mid/late-90s through to the early 00s - they released almost nothing during the period when DBZ and Akira Toriyama was at peak penetration and most of the games they released during that period had awful CG box art instead of Toriyama's illustrations. (DQ3 GBC did have Toriyama art, thanks to fan demand.) Even now, I don't think they push that angle as hard as they should.
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Jan 3, 2017 03:24
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:The thing that gets me about DQ in the west is they somehow managed to completely squander the opportunity to piggyback off the DBZ mega-hype from the mid/late-90s through to the early 00s - they released almost nothing during the period when DBZ and Akira Toriyama was at peak penetration and most of the games they released during that period had awful CG box art instead of Toriyama's illustrations. (DQ3 GBC did have Toriyama art, thanks to fan demand.) dbz(or at least the dbz in the heads of westerners) doesn't have much in common with dq beyond toriyama art and unfortunately i don't think his rad art is the reason people got into dbz
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Jan 3, 2017 04:10
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toriyama art alone wouldn't have made dq a huge success, but it might have helped at least.
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Jan 3, 2017 04:14
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There was nothing they could have changed about it to make it seem more popular, since its strengths are exactly what the prime non-Japanese market (of all ages) of the 90s saw as weaknesses. And mostly still do! The people who like DQ are people who like old-school gaming conservatism and don't care if they're fighting little rainbow blobs and bucktoothed dragons. It's not difficult to tell which of these series will be more popular among people from the 90s. There is no call to have trouble with the "Gritty is Trendy" -> "The Less Colorful RPG Is Purchased More" connection. It only seems to be hard to figure out for Japanese business execs. And I can't imagine they really don't know, it's probably some weird professional obligation to identify crucial milestones a gamer like me couldn't imagine. (They were probably thinking about Wizardry and thought Americans go nuts over generic fantasy; in fact it's the English that think like that.) The rest of this is just extended yammering about the different in attitude between DQ and FF: When they accepted that they would have to change "Dragon Quest" to attract Americans etc., they just made it even more generic. Let's think like a dumb gamer from the 90s for second: "Final Fantasy", with its alliteration and unclear meaning (there are lot of final fantasies?), is about a billion times more interesting and evocative a title than "Dragon Quest" or "Dragon Warrior", both of which - appropriate and quaint as they are - could easily be bullshit imaginary video game titles from a YA novel. All the really popular (like, grandmas make less mistakes buying them) Japanese game series have a weird little twist like FF's that makes them memorably distinct. (i.e. you probably haven't met many Marios, Pokemon barely sounds like anything else.) Imagine you're a kid, a teenager, or even an adult in the 90s; which looks cooler, which is more preferable to be a fan of? Both series have "anime" art. But one looks just like Lord of the Rings Dragonball Z - BEFORE that was anything but "anime", before it was common knowledge that DBZ has a particularly distinctive style from the mind of one man - and one looks more crazy and creative every installment. One is, stubbornly, exactly where it was at game 1, and the other gets increasingly darker and more modern. Now that we're all smarter we can evaluate the honest down-home goodness of a Dragon Quest sincerely against the, perhaps, pretense of a Final Fantasy.
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Jan 3, 2017 04:27
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Ofecks posted:There's a predecessor to EVO? https://kotaku.com/the-japanese-predecessor-to-e-v-o-search-for-eden-now-1790689843 PaletteSwappedNinja posted:The thing that gets me about DQ in the west is they somehow managed to completely squander the opportunity to piggyback off the DBZ mega-hype from the mid/late-90s through to the early 00s - they released almost nothing during the period when DBZ and Akira Toriyama was at peak penetration and most of the games they released during that period had awful CG box art instead of Toriyama's illustrations. (DQ3 GBC did have Toriyama art, thanks to fan demand.) The Dragon Quest anime (or the one that borrowed from DQ3, anyways) was also on TV in the late 80s/early 90s but it was like a 6am thing they'd have on before the Super Mario Bros Super Show and they only translated 11 or so episodes of it.
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Jan 3, 2017 04:38
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Alls I know is, Nintendo Power sold me the GBC remakes, and I was hooked.
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Jan 3, 2017 04:58
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Even after changing the UI, making it even more like DBZ with super high tension animations, giving it an orchestrated soundtrack and adding voice acting DQVIII sold less in NA than a DBZ fighting game released the same year. And it even came with an exclusive demo for the next, highly anticipated FF game. For XI, I think the best they can do is give it a demo on every platform.
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Jan 3, 2017 05:18
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I have a beefy PC and a Nintendo 3DS if I've never played Dragon Quest, which one should I play?
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Jan 3, 2017 06:31
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8
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Jan 3, 2017 06:38
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The 3DS version of VIII comes out in a matter of days and seems to be a really good version of a fantastic game.
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Jan 3, 2017 06:41
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Yeah, definitely 8
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Jan 3, 2017 06:42
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Turtlicious posted:I have a beefy PC and a Nintendo 3DS if I've never played Dragon Quest, which one should I play? Short version: Play 8 on 3DS when it comes out on the 20th of this month. Long version: Here is all of them and why you would or would not start there. 1: Very archaic and simplistic. Mostly worth playing as a historical curiosity. Pick the mobile version, as it's got a new, good translation. 2: The worst one in the series. Difficult, sparse, and lacks quality-of-life feature. Pick the mobile version for its new, good translation. 3: Maybe the best one in the series. Pick the mobile version for its translation if you can stand touch controls, or else emulate the fan-translated Super Famicom version it's based on. 4: Maybe the best one in the series. The phonetic accents might be too spicy for you. Pick the mobile version because it has party chat, or the DS version (which lacks party chat) if you really hate touch controls. 5: Maybe the best one in the series. The puns aren't as clever as the others, which is a turn-off for some. Pick either the mobile or DS version, as they're identical. 6: Maybe the best one in the series. It's a bit of a slow burn. Pick either the mobile or DS version, as they're identical. 7: Maybe the best one in the series. It's like if 6 were twice as big and twice as slow. Pick the 3DS version. 8: Definitely the best one in the series. My personal favorite. Wait for the 3DS version, or play the PS2 version. Don't play the mobile version, it's a bad port. 9: Maybe the best one in the series. The MMO-style quests may burn you out. The DS version is the only version. 10: It's an MMO that's only out in Japan, and on top of that, it's not even a good one. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jan 3, 2017 |
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Jan 3, 2017 06:45
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Vogograd wasn't so bad, those kids will fix their elders' lovely mistakes with time.
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Jan 3, 2017 08:53
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