SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Like I don't see how you lay Clinton's unpopularity on neoliberalism when Obama, harbinger of neoliberalism who is actually in office and therefore actually caused whatever's going on, is popular

Something more than that is going on, and it's likely that it was something about her personally as opposed to any sort of policy considerations

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:52

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# ? May 24, 2024 17:22

Oh Snapple!: Dec 27, 2005

wherein we pretend that the clintons didn't curbstomp the gently caress out of working america

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:53

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Pretty sure it's her personal negatives as opposed to neoliberalism or whatever, given the respective fav./unfav. numbers for her vs. Was Actually President For The Last Eight Years Barack Obama

Obama is insanely charismatic and a once in a lifetime politician, people loved him despite his policies, and he didn't originally run (in 08) on neoliberalism either.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:53

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Like I don't see how you lay Clinton's unpopularity on neoliberalism when Obama, harbinger of neoliberalism who is actually in office and therefore actually caused whatever's going on, is popular

Something more than that is going on, and it's likely that it was something about her personally as opposed to any sort of policy considerations

No, Obama sucked pretty hard too, and just as now criticism was brushed off.

His human suit just fits better.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:54

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

Ah you see, John F. Kennedy was a dove-hawk, therefore Clinton's loss has nothing to do with her policies. :eng101:

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:55

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

if obama is the harbinger of neoliberalism is bill the elder god of it?

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:55

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Actually, I think you'll find that the results of the election confirm that my political views are correct. :smug:

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:55

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Error 404 posted:

No, Obama sucked pretty hard too, and just as now criticism was brushed off.

His human suit just fits better.

Obama was +15 on Election Day, Clinton -15

30 points is a huge swing of policy is at all relevant to a candidate running for Obamas third term

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:56

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

I love how we've come full circle back to "Hilllary only lost because of racism/sexism/emails.".
It must be tough to shield your mind from realizing the truth that
Bernie Sanders would have won.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:57

Grondoth: Feb 18, 2011

etalian posted:

I liked the joke she made about work setting people free, even though the black woman in welfare reform photo op died due to not being able to afford medicine.

Christ

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:57

Oh Snapple!: Dec 27, 2005

"We are going to put a lot of coal miners out of business"

Boy I wonder why people didn't like Hillary, must be those russians and those emails

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:57

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

I can't believe racist russian internet trolls smearing Hillary Clinton made democrats lose 900+ state legislature seats, 12 governors, 69 House seats, 13 Senate seats since 2008.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 00:58

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

Error 404 posted:

MARX!
*click*

seriously? you think a marxist would pick up a pollster's call and not talk for at least an hour with the pollster?

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:00

Bushiz: Sep 21, 2004; The #1 Threat to Ba Sing Se; Grimey Drawer

jarofpiss posted:

lol hillary selling her soul for some bullshit in the 70s really shows a lack of perspective and a failure to plan ahead! what a bad candidate! and a worse leader!

Hillary monkey's pawed "living in the white house" in the 60's because she's incapable of not phrasing things stupidly

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:01

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Like I don't see how you lay Clinton's unpopularity on neoliberalism when Obama, harbinger of neoliberalism who is actually in office and therefore actually caused whatever's going on, is popular

Something more than that is going on, and it's likely that it was something about her personally as opposed to any sort of policy considerations

Hmm, you didn't convince anyone that we're all just racist woman haters the first 100 times you posted this. Maybe this time will be different.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:06

jarofpiss: May 16, 2009

Baloogan posted:

seriously? you think a marxist would pick up a pollster's call and not talk for at least an hour with the pollster?

real marxists have debt collectors after them and don't pick up unknown numbers

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:10

Business Gorillas: Mar 11, 2009

Thoguh posted:

Hmm, you didn't convince anyone that we're all just racist woman haters the first 100 times you posted this. Maybe this time will be different.

speak for yourself, i'm finally convinced that i'm a racistsexist

i'm also an antisemite too because why not

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:10

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

Obama ran hard on the auto bailout in 2012, which was decidedly not neoliberal imo, and I think it helped him.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:14

Yinlock: Oct 22, 2008

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Like I don't see how you lay Clinton's unpopularity on neoliberalism when Obama, harbinger of neoliberalism who is actually in office and therefore actually caused whatever's going on, is popular

Something more than that is going on, and it's likely that it was something about her personally as opposed to any sort of policy considerations

i'm pretty sure it was both, personally

whether it's neoliberalism or sexism or falling for the smear campaign, there's a reason to hate hillary for everyone :toot:

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:15

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

GalacticAcid posted:

Obama ran hard on the auto bailout in 2012, which was decidedly not neoliberal imo, and I think it helped him.

Fishmechian Hill Folk will argue it didn't help at all for saving jobs but it did make a great talking point in Rust Belt states since Mitt Romney lambasted the bailout.

etalian has issued a correction as of 01:22 on Jan 3, 2017

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:17

Grondoth: Feb 18, 2011

I can't believe Basket of Deplorables came from a speech where she was trying to say her opponent's supporters weren't bad. That's the kind of incompetence you couldn't even imagine. How has she done nothing but prepare to run for president for like 20 years and be so bad at it?

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:17

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Grondoth posted:

I can't believe Basket of Deplorables came from a speech where she was trying to say her opponent's supporters weren't bad. That's the kind of incompetence you couldn't even imagine. How has she done nothing but prepare to run for president for like 20 years and be so bad at it?

Things like Correct the Record did the same thing to paint Bernie supporters as misogynists.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:18

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

Grondoth posted:

I can't believe Basket of Deplorables came from a speech where she was trying to say her opponent's supporters weren't bad. That's the kind of incompetence you couldn't even imagine. How has she done nothing but prepare to run for president for like 20 years and be so bad at it?

remember her PEPE speech

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:21

Serf: May 5, 2011

carl marks

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:22

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

GalacticAcid posted:

Obama ran hard on the auto bailout in 2012, which was decidedly not neoliberal imo, and I think it helped him.

how did we not nationalize them back then

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:25

DivineCoffeeBinge: Mar 3, 2011; Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Baloogan posted:

remember her PEPE speech

no

you can't make me

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:32

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

remmbber when obama didnt even try to put any bankers in jail lmfao

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:32

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

bump_fn posted:

remmbber when obama didnt even try to put any bankers in jail lmfao

I liked the cynical ending in The Big Short

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hygBAo2iTjE

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:33

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

bump_fn posted:

remmbber when obama didnt even try to put any bankers in jail lmfao

i like when he let poor people get kicked out of their homes instead of punishing banks for faking ownership documents! centrism is great!

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:34

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

etalian posted:

I liked the cynical ending in The Big Short

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hygBAo2iTjE

U mean the real life ending

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:35

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Condiv posted:

i like when he let poor people get kicked out of their homes instead of punishing banks for faking ownership documents! centrism is great!

Also bad dems overlook how in the past like the Savings and Loan crisis the government was able to lock up lots of people for financial crimes, even sending the FBI after them to run investigations.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:35

The Muppets On PCP: Nov 13, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Grondoth posted:

How has she done nothing but prepare to run for president for like 20 years and be so bad at it?

because some people are hard workers but don't realize that not everything can be achieved through perseverance alone

sometimes you just gotta be naturally talented

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:37

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

in my darkest most cynical moments i realize i could get a job working as a quant in one of those banks and i like to think that i have a set of morals that would stop me from doing it but lol as if

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:37

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

He's a interesting interview with a former bank regulator:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-execs-went-to-prison-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/

Obama could have directed DOJ and FBI resources to investigate Wall Street banks but didn't due to not wanting to turn on the DNC's donor class.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:37

The Muppets On PCP: Nov 13, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

also being too far up her own rear end to realize decades of neoliberal policy have decimated the working class

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:38

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

quote:

Joshua Holland: To date, a few loan officers � small fish � have been convicted of various offenses related to the financial crash. But none of the big bankers have faced any charges. And it�s not that the government has been losing cases in the courts. There�s simply been no concerted effort to prosecute these guys. Can you contrast that with what happened during the savings and loan scandal of the 1980s, and also give us your sense of why this has been the case?

William Black: Sure. The savings and loan debacle was one-seventieth the size of the current crisis, both in terms of losses and the amount of fraud. In that crisis, the savings and loan regulators made over 30,000 criminal referrals, and this produced over 1,000 felony convictions in cases designated as �major� by the Department of Justice. But even that understates the degree of prioritization, because we, the regulators, worked very closely with the FBI and the Justice Department to create a list of the top 100 � the 100 worst fraud schemes. They involved roughly 300 savings and loans and 600 individuals, and virtually all of those people were prosecuted. We had a 90 percent conviction rate, which is the greatest success against elite white-collar crime (in terms of prosecution) in history.

In the current crisis, that same agency, the Office of Thrift Supervision, which was supposed to regulate, among others, Countrywide, Washington Mutual and IndyMac � which collectively made hundreds of thousands of fraudulent mortgage loans � made zero criminal referrals. The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is supposed to regulate the largest national banks, made zero criminal referrals. The Federal Reserve appears to have made zero criminal referrals; it made three about discrimination. And the FDIC was smart enough to refuse to answer the question, but nobody thinks they made any material number of criminal referrals [either].

And what people don�t understand about the criminal justice system is there are roughly a million people employed in it � and of course, millions incarcerated in it. But of the million employees, 2,300 do elite white-collar investigations. And of those 2,300, you have to contrast that to the number of industries in the United States, which is over 1,300. Notice I didn�t say �corporations,� I said �industries.�

So a couple of things should be obvious. First, the FBI agents will not have expertise in the industry. And second, they can�t patrol the beat. They have to wait until a criminal referral comes in, and won�t come from the bank itself. Banks don�t make criminal referrals against their CEOs.

It could episodically come from whistleblowers, but against an epidemic of fraud that can never work. It has to come overwhelmingly from the regulators. So when the regulators ceased making criminal referrals � which had nothing to do with an end of crime, obviously; it just had to do with a refusal to be involved in the prosecutorial effort anymore � they doomed us to a disaster where we would not succeed.

Back in the savings and loan crisis, people like me � and I did this personally a great deal of my time � trained not only our regulators, but also the FBI agents and assistant U.S. attorneys on how to identify fraud schemes, how to respond to them and how to document them. We also detailed our top examiners on the most complex frauds, so that they worked for the FBI as their internal experts, and then people like me testified as expert witnesses. And, again, we had prioritized so we were going against the absolute worst of the worst and most senior of the people. None of those things have happened now.

Because of changes in executive compensation, it�s very uncommon for people to blow the whistle in the modern era. What people often don�t understand is that executive compensation bonuses go down very low in the food chain. And so if I�m a boss and I see a crime being committed, it isn�t just that I risk losing my bonus, it�s that Fred and Mary who report to me � Fred with three kids about to go to college and Mary with a kid that has severe problems � they�ll lose their bonuses as well. And so it�s not even my greed � it�s my altruism that gets in the way.

And then the administration has never � both the Bush and the Obama administrations � made a call for the good people to come forward, the ones who fought against the frauds and were disciplined because they did so. And the Frontline special that investigated this found that as soon as word got out, they were deluged with people giving them information, and the common characteristic Frontline found was that the FBI had never even talked to them.

And of course, the Obama administration has been having an unholy war against whistleblowers.

Holland: It almost sounds like � if I could offer an analogy � if you were trying to prosecute homicides and you had no police on the streets, no homicide detectives and no snitches, your hands would be tied, even if you were a tenacious prosecutor with some ambition.

Black: It�s actually far worse than that, because as a prosecutor of those kinds of cases, I end up with a corpse that has a small entry wound and a large exit wound, and I know there�s been a homicide. I can use forensic evidence to go after those people, even in the absence of witnesses. No such things occur in the elite white-collar sphere. Instead, the lenders were making criminal referrals against the little guys � the hairdressers of the world. And they made hundreds of thousands of them.

So at the peak of the savings and loans crisis � again, one-seventieth the size of this crisis � of those 2,300 total FBI agents, 1,000 of them were working on just one industry, the savings and loan industry, to produce that incredible wave of success that we had. As recently as fiscal year 2007, there were only 120 FBI agents assigned to mortgage fraud, and that�s despite the fact that the FBI itself, in September 2004, warned that there was an epidemic of mortgage fraud � �epidemic� was their word � and predicted that it would cause a financial crisis � �crisis� was their word � unless it was stopped. So what happens instead? You get tens of thousands of criminal referrals about the small fish. And so every single one of those 120 FBI agents was working those cases.

Holland: Unbelievable.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:39

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

Baloogan posted:

seriously? you think a marxist would pick up a pollster's call and not talk for at least an hour with the pollster?

The *click* is the pollster hanging up

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:40

The Muppets On PCP: Nov 13, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

etalian posted:

He's a interesting interview with a former bank regulator:
http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-execs-went-to-prison-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/

Obama could have directed DOJ and FBI resources to investigate Wall Street banks but didn't due to not wanting to turn on the DNC's donor class.

same reason he cut a deal with billy tauzin to keep phrma from lobbying against aca

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:40

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

docbeard posted:

The *click* is the pollster hanging up

hahahah lol

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:44

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# ? May 24, 2024 17:22

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

The Muppets On PCP posted:

same reason he cut a deal with billy tauzin to keep phrma from lobbying against aca

Also Obama's attempts at drug price reform got shot down by Dem Senators.

# ? Jan 3, 2017 01:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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