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När USA redan i praktiken (om inte officielt) testat något som inte fungerar, varför vill moderater ändå göra exakt samma sak? Jag menar om de eller deras ungdomsförbund ska sno en partiagenda kan de åtminstone ta ut bitarna som är dåliga först?
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Dec 26, 2016 18:49
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Whoa that escalated fastevilmiera posted:När USA redan i praktiken (om inte officielt) testat något som inte fungerar, varför vill moderater ändå göra exakt samma sak? Hela poängen med ungdomsförbund är ju att de ska kunna vädra extrema åsikter för att se hur de går i opinionen utan att moderpartiet lider för missarna. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 19:20
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MiddleOne posted:Whoa that escalated fast Poängen med ungdomsförbund borde vara att föra lista över medlemmarna, och sedan automatiskt diskvalificera dem från att arbeta med politik på riktigt innan de varit i karantän 10 år ute i verkliga livet.
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Dec 26, 2016 21:49
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Poängen med politiska ungdomsförbund är just att ge de mest störande individerna i varje generation en massa onödigt humbug att sysselsätta sig med så att hederligt folk slipper ha med dem att göra.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:00
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hi i'm dare
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Dec 26, 2016 22:10
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Nice to meet you.
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Dec 26, 2016 22:21
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evilmiera posted:När USA redan i praktiken (om inte officielt) testat något som inte fungerar, varför vill moderater ändå göra exakt samma sak? 
Poil fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 22:40
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ThaumPenguin posted:I'm agnostic and I'd sing "Deilig er Jorden" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5G_8gud6u0 I liked Deilig er jorden when I was in a men's choir and got to sing the bass part of that one time, that was pretty rad. I guess I like the tune too. I'm considering voting Raudt next election. I like how they want to do something about the outrageous real estate market and care about rising economic inequality. I also like Moxnes Might be wasting my vote again, I don't know. But I want to vote for a party that actually has my interests at heart. I mean as a young person/mooching goddam student. Grevling fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 03:02
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Props to whoever recommended Tinkzorg in this thread, he is a really nuanced writer with a lot of good points that go beyond simply labeling the other side as "bad". Anybody else listen to the podcast he does with Marcus Allard? https://soundcloud.com/markus-och-malcom/med-gast-ett-samtal-om-revolutionara-fronten-del-1
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Dec 30, 2016 13:23
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This is pretty loving depressing in so many ways, and shows the state of Swedish politics. http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/samhalle/a/p2oL1/aftonbladet-inizio-sd-vinner-fraga-efter-fraga Worst thing, this is the consequence of bad decisions that started more than 10 years ago, which could have been avoided but idealism got in the way. Also, LoL. https://twitter.com/Budoarstamning/status/816570061091696640
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Jan 4, 2017 10:21
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Cardiac posted:This is pretty loving depressing in so many ways, and shows the state of Swedish politics. 20 years ago, practically all political parties in Denmark embraced full on racism and related so-called 'hard' immigration policy stances (because the DPP was stealing votes from everyone), and shifting governments (left and right) continually tightened immigration policies till it was one of the toughest in the world, and it didn't prevent poo poo. On the contrary it just normalized the most heinous and awful poo poo policies, to the point were the second largest party today is DPP. Turns out you can't outcompete a fundamentally racists party when it comes to being hard on immigration, who would have thunk? In addition, it doesn't functionally matter what the actual policies are, because they'll just continue the jingoistic/nationalistic/racist narrative regardless of the facts are, and an ever increasing group of imbeciles will keep believing them. Expressed, par excellence, by the previous leader of DPP: "We are some who are tired of listening to experts, facts and statistics, when we can look right outside our window and see how bad it is". (never mind that her window is in the wealthiest municipality in the country with the absolute lowest number of immigrants. She'd be hard pressed to see more than a couple in a week - as is always the case, racism, and immigration-fear is always worse among people who have never actually spent any time near any immigrants). If anything it's a lack if idealism which has let to the current situation.
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Jan 4, 2017 11:32
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It's not that difficult to dominate the elderly debate when your policy position is literally "and then we pulled hundreds of billions out of a hat and gave to all the elderly". V is the only party in the entire Riksdag who is even attempting to discuss the underlying problems of how the pension system is currently funded and I'm surprised that this hasn't happened sooner.
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Jan 4, 2017 11:39
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MiddleOne posted:"and then we pulled hundreds of billions out of a hat"
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Jan 4, 2017 12:44
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"Sjukvården 57 procent Skola och utbildning 56 procent Invandring och integration 55 procent" http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/invandring-inte-langre-viktigaste-valjarfragan The only party willing to talk about immigration in any other fashion than "agree with these blanket statements or be ostracized" has, like it or not, been SD. And they have a head start of about 10 years at this point.
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Jan 4, 2017 13:57
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freelancemoth posted:"Sjukvården 57 procent
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Jan 4, 2017 14:23
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Can some dane give me the rundown of Nye Borgerlige?
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Jan 4, 2017 15:37
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Retarded Goatee posted:Can some dane give me the rundown of Nye Borgerlige?
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Jan 4, 2017 16:39
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The DPP for Libertarians. Yep, but you need to tighten the 'Nationalism' and 'non-Danes are filthy animals' screws a bit more. also: add a touch of DNSAP, but try not to say it out loud.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:44
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Retarded Goatee posted:Can some dane give me the rundown of Nye Borgerlige? Really, they are quite simply Ayn Rand libertarians (like Liberal Alliance), except overtly racist (the reason we don't want immigrants is because they are fundamentally untermenchen who will wreck our economy if they take over from Danes - I wish I was kidding).
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Jan 4, 2017 18:28
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Yep they're the latest flavour of racism. This time mixed with Laissez faire politics.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:34
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Revelation 2-13 posted:20 years ago, practically all political parties in Denmark embraced full on racism and related so-called 'hard' immigration policy stances (because the DPP was stealing votes from everyone), and shifting governments (left and right) continually tightened immigration policies till it was one of the toughest in the world, and it didn't prevent poo poo. Lol, no. If you check the voting results for DPP, it wasn't until Socialdemokraterna gained power that DPP went up to 20%. Between 2001 and 2011 they had 12% compared to 21% in the 2015 election. Judging from the Swedish situation, you would probably have had DPP at 20% much earlier than what transpired in Denmark. So do you prefer DPP to be ~10% like your former commie party or do you prefer DPP to be among the largest parties in Denmark. Other options are not realistic since you will always have discontent with the political system. Funnily enough, left-leaning parties used to be good at populism. MiddleOne posted:It's not that difficult to dominate the elderly debate when your policy position is literally "and then we pulled hundreds of billions out of a hat and gave to all the elderly". V is the only party in the entire Riksdag who is even attempting to discuss the underlying problems of how the pension system is currently funded and I'm surprised that this hasn't happened sooner. Sorry, I thought we were talking about SD here and not V? Pulling money out of a hat is literally Vs economic policy. As for the pension system, we are still better off than the rest of Europe that haven't really started to change their pension system. Also, lol if you don't expect to work until you drop dead. Cardiac fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 07:58
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Cardiac posted:Sorry, I thought we were talking about SD here and not V? Pulling money out of a hat is literally Vs economic policy. There is a stark difference between wanting to raise taxes in ways which most of the Riksdag would never go for, that's what we would call unrealistic, and literally conjuring money out of thin air which is what SD budgets have been proposing since at least 2010 which is not unrealistic, it's impossible. Cardiac posted:As for the pension system, we are still better off than the rest of Europe that haven't really started to change their pension system. Better off than the dead-horse of the world economy that has been involved in the longest case of autoerotic asphyxiation in recorded human history? Welp, better straddle in and satisfy ourselves with mediocrity I suppose.  Also, the public pension system is so unsustainable that it's literally not part of my life calculations. A big benefit of being financially literate is that you know that there are alternatives. Furthermore, if the system is eventually salvaged, despite all signs of the contrary, you've lost nothing in the process. Of course everyone with a too low life-income are going to get hosed in process which is why I would prefer something happening sooner rather than later. Especially, since elderly poverty is already rapidly on the rise. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 10:09
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MiddleOne posted:There is a stark difference between wanting to raise taxes in ways which most of the Riksdag would never go for, that's what we would call unrealistic and literally conjuring money out of thin air which is what SD budgets have been proposing since at least 2010 which is not unrealistic, it's impossible. Maybe SD will just print its own
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Jan 5, 2017 10:13
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Cardiac posted:Lol, no. I'm not sure why you're writing lol no, when you're exactly proving my point (unless you don't believe that the social Democratic Party started taking a 'hard' immigration stance because of DPP stealing voters, because that is most definitely the case). Anyway, as I said, even with practically all the political parties in Denmark stumbling over each other to be 'tough on immigration' for the last 20 years, in some kind of 'who can be the most awful' political bidding war AND having some of the actual toughest immigration laws in the world, the DPP grew to become the second largest party in Denmark. You can't outcompete the literal racists in being hard on immigration, and because the media/politicians have created a situation where immigration has become the economic/cultural fear du jure, DPP keeps getting more and more votes every election because every time they just turn up racist heat a little more than the other parties. People don't care (or understand) the nuances of the actual policy differences, they understand someone saying that the immigrants (and refugees, because in DPPs logic they are not different) are only here to rape and steal, then apologizing and saying some of them are here to rape and steal. Then saying immigrant men all beat their wives and gently caress their children, then apologizing and saying only some of them beat their wives and gently caress their children. Repeat ad naseum. This rhetoric wins over some politician who is being reasonable and rationally talking about refugee quotas and special (low) social services for asylum seekers etc. It has quite simply let to racism being much more overt and much more normalized in Denmark, to the point where it's causing massive harm, by ostracizing large groups of people, who the reacts with closing in on themselves, creating even more parallel societies and resentment against Denmark, by people who by all rights are Danish (not that this didn't happen before, but it has become much worse). Turns out when you constantly read in the newspapers, and hear politicians talk about, how your 'kind' are criminals and lazy and support the terrorists (even though it's only a tiny fraction, for all three things), it actually has an effect on people, who would have thunk? All in all, being idealistic on immigration didn't give rise to SD, if anything Sweden managed to starve off their DPP equivalent for 20 years by holding onto principles, ideals and what's right. I can understand why a racist would want the narrative to be that the politicians ignores the very real dangers of immigration though.
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Jan 5, 2017 10:32
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Neeksy posted:Maybe SD will just print its own That'd get in the way of the commitment to fiscal conservatism they latched unto with no thought when people started asking what their economic policy was and they had to make it up on the spot.
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Jan 5, 2017 11:35
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MiddleOne posted:That'd get in the way of the commitment to fiscal conservatism they latched unto with no thought when people started asking what their economic policy was and they had to make it up on the spot. B-b-but what happened to their "preserve social welfare for Swedes, brown people are ruining it!" message? Are you saying that they have a simplistic ideology based solely around reactionary ethnic nationalism and aren't actually concerned about preserving the nordic model from the ravages of unfettered global capitalism?! How dare you, sir!
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Jan 5, 2017 12:45
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If you want an example of the far-right's actual commitment to preserving the welfare state you need only to look at Finland. Our far-right party happily went into a colaition government with the main bourgie parties and is currently all in on helping to cut everything to the bone.
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Jan 5, 2017 12:48
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Revelation 2-13 posted:All in all, being idealistic on immigration didn't give rise to SD, if anything Sweden managed to starve off their DPP equivalent for 20 years by holding onto principles, ideals and what's right. I can understand why a racist would want the narrative to be that the politicians ignores the very real dangers of immigration though. Quite right, SD:s rise in one decade from a rump party competing with Nationaldemokraterna and Svenskarnas Parti for 1-2 % of the voters to a serious contender for the biggest party in the upcoming election was unrelated to Sweden having the world's most naive and utopian immigration policy. Rather, I think it was due to a combination of their brilliant political acumen, the personal rockstar charisma of sexiest politician ever Jimmie Åkesson and empathy-reducing contaminants released by Putin into the water supply. It's genius insights like yours that keep drawing me back to this thread.
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Jan 5, 2017 13:59
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Hey Danish goons, where do you get your news? and what papers/magazines are good for secondary analysis?
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Jan 5, 2017 13:59
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Karpaw posted:Quite right, SD:s rise in one decade from a rump party competing with Nationaldemokraterna and Svenskarnas Parti for 1-2 % of the voters to a serious contender for the biggest party in the upcoming election was unrelated to Sweden having the world's most naive and utopian immigration policy. Which is why other EU nations with a more restrictive immigration policy did not have populist anti-immigration parties rise to national dominance. Well, except for Finland, Denmark, the UK, Hungary, Poland, the Netherlands, France, Norway, etc...  Also, now that Karpaw has found his way back we're one immigration post away from Ligur stepping out from the shadows.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:07
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Fruits of the sea posted:Hey Danish goons, where do you get your news? and what papers/magazines are good for secondary analysis? I read the newspaper I pay subscribsion for... jk lol Information.dk b.dk politiken.dk eb.dk These are both primary and secondary news sources, just steer clear of the "blogs" on b.dk as they are written by crazy people.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:If you want an example of the far-right's actual commitment to preserving the welfare state you need only to look at Finland. Our far-right party happily went into a colaition government with the main bourgie parties and is currently all in on helping to cut everything to the bone. A party for the people. Just not the general people, I guess.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:44
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Buller posted:I read the newspaper I pay subscribsion for... jk lol Sorry for nitpicking, but I can't resist adding a bit of (personally biased) information. Information.dk - left leaning in editorials. Usually has rock-solid basis for stories. b.dk - slightly right leaning in editorials. Usually has rock-solid basis for stories. Politiken.dk - left leaning in editorials. Usually has pretty decent basis for stories. Very Copenhagen-centric. eb.dk - Leaning towards whatever will bring in the readers. sensationalist journalism, but some times has extremely well founded journalistic work.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:52
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Crowley posted:eb.dk - Leaning towards whatever will bring in the readers. sensationalist journalism, but some times has extremely well founded journalistic work. Adding to this. EB.dk seems to have a sort of cycle where they like to harp on a few favorite subjects on a seemingly well-defined schedule. Typical sensationalist rag (and don't ever EVER read the comment sections).
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Jan 5, 2017 16:01
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KozmoNaut posted:and don't ever EVER read the comment sections This applies to everything
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Jan 5, 2017 16:05
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Thanks, I appreciate the background as well. What's your opinion on Børsen? I find business papers to be surprisingly good sources for raw news sometimes, or at least the editorial direction is less interested in pushing sensationalist stories. Not sure how it is here in DK though.
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Jan 5, 2017 16:10
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Cerebral Bore posted:If you want an example of the far-right's actual commitment to preserving the welfare state you need only to look at Finland. Our far-right party happily went into a colaition government with the main bourgie parties and is currently all in on helping to cut everything to the bone. Same with our right-wing populists in Norway. They keep telling everyone that parasitical foreigners are a threat to the welfare state. At the same time they're eager to dismantle it as they're libertarians. The head of the party, now our Minister of Finance, has said in interviews that her favourite author is Ayn Rand.
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Jan 5, 2017 16:23
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MiddleOne posted:Which is why other EU nations with a more restrictive immigration policy did not have populist anti-immigration parties rise to national dominance. Well, except for Finland, Denmark, the UK, Hungary, Poland, the Netherlands, France, Norway, etc... Yeah, while the policies of Sweden were less restrictive than a lot of places and had better incentives to immigrate in some ways, awful politics have been on the rise lately for a rather different "main" reason across Europe, I'd say. Not to mention the US and Australia. It is a global phenomenon unrelated to any one policy.
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Jan 5, 2017 16:28
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Fruits of the sea posted:What's your opinion on Børsen? I find business papers to be surprisingly good sources for raw news sometimes, or at least the editorial direction is less interested in pushing sensationalist stories. Not sure how it is here in DK though. Apart from the editorials? Completely trustworthy. Most of Danish newspapers are trustworthy, though. My personal list of trustworthy newspapers:
Please note this is a list of newspapers I trust to report news truthfully and do actual journalistic research. It's not a list who's editorial opinions I agree with. Edit: There are a handful of small local newspapers, but I'm not a regular reader of those, so I can't speak for their integrity.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:10
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EB has hard hitting and constructive journalism such as this gem.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:14
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