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ex post facho posted:well yea that's my point. its a superstar driven league. if you're a fan of a team that doesn't have lebron/curry/popovich on it, you might as well just resign yourself for the next 8-10 years and hope that your team's management is smart enough to tank to the bottom shamelessly and still make the right decision on draft night. EVERY LEAGUE IS A SUPERSTAR DRIVEN LEAGUE IF YOU HAVE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO WIN THIS IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE NBA
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Jan 4, 2017 20:15
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Not only do you need to be incredibly lucky, but of the teams that made the finals, most also needed several other things to happen in their favor too. Heat: Drafted Wade, Traded for Shaq for '06, signed Lebron and Bosh for '11-'14 Dallas: Drafted Dirk, had all of their FA signings work in '11 Lakers: Traded for Pau in '08-'10 Celtics: Drafted Pierce, Drafted Rondo, Traded for Ray Allen and KG in '08 and '10 Cavs: Won 3 lotteries in 4 years, Traded for Kevin Love. Lebron had a change of heart in '15-'16 The only teams that really just had to grow naturally after drafting a star were the 06' Mavs, '07 Cavs, All of the Spurs teams, the '12 Thunder, and Golden State. That's a huge amount of things that have to go right in order to make or win a finals, it's insane. Metapod posted:EVERY LEAGUE IS A SUPERSTAR DRIVEN LEAGUE IF YOU HAVE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO WIN THIS IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE NBA Not really. Hockey is a crapshoot, average teams win the Stanley cup all the time. Careers are short in football, and team quality swings much quicker. Sure the best 4 or 5 QBs are most likely to win but at least those top 5 change fairly often. Also coaching effects games much more than it does in the other sports. Baseball is a sport won on the margins and teams with the best players lose extremely frequently Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 20:15
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the_american_dream posted:Re: Javale Yeah man blind consumerism and the desire for more money even if it makes you less happy is awesome. If he's set for life, and doesn't give a poo poo about winning a title who cares? You probably shouldn't sign him to play basketball but every org makes bad decisions Dexo fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 20:16
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the_american_dream posted:Re: Javale What if he only wants to commit super-obvious goaltending swats? If so he has reached Nirvana.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:17
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the_american_dream posted:Re: Javale He could get famous enough to play video games with a pornstar if he tries harder
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Jan 4, 2017 20:18
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Metapod posted:EVERY LEAGUE IS A SUPERSTAR DRIVEN LEAGUE IF YOU HAVE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO WIN THIS IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE NBA not arguing this either, its just that the way the modern nba and its playoff system works makes it almost impossible for a team that hasn't lucked into a generational talent to win its championship, which i dont believe is true of any other league
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Jan 4, 2017 20:18
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ex post facho posted:not arguing this either, its just that the way the modern nba and its playoff system works makes it almost impossible for a team that hasn't lucked into a generational talent to win its championship, which i dont believe is true of any other league Come on, the warriors won two years ago and almost won again last year. That's nonsense.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:20
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ex post facho posted:not arguing this either, its just that the way the modern nba and its playoff system works makes it almost impossible for a team that hasn't lucked into a generational talent to win its championship, which i dont believe is true of any other league No other league let's a player like Russ use 44% of possessions like that. Even the NFL has to have so much go right around a quarterback that it isn't close to equivalent. The "issue" is that with 5 guys on the court and 100 possessions for the sake of this argument, the best players come out ahead because it increases the sample size by so much more than Barry Bonds getting 5 at bats. Random chance doesn't the make the NFL or MLB a better or worse league, just more random
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Jan 4, 2017 20:23
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The solution is to take the top one percent, the "Tall Poppies", and remove them from the NBA and make them play one on one and in NBA JAM groupings
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Jan 4, 2017 20:24
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Metapod posted:EVERY LEAGUE IS A SUPERSTAR DRIVEN LEAGUE IF YOU HAVE THE BEST PLAYERS YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO WIN THIS IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE NBA It's more pronounced in the NBA than in something like the NFL. The Texans have JJ Watt but because he can't play QB for more than one or two trick plays they will never go anywhere. The Colts have Andrew Luck but since he can't block for himself he's not going anywhere either. In basketball there are fewer other people on the court and the superstar player gets it for significantly more possessions. WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 20:30
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Football qb and baseball starting pitcher are about the closest thing to an NBA starter in terms of playoff success.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:33
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ex post facho posted:i kinda wish the nba didnt feel so futile as a fan of a non-superstar-having team. jokic is nice and all but the nuggets arent going anywhere until the suck back to the top of the draft imo.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:35
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WhyteRyce posted:It's more pronounced in the NBA than in something like the NFL. The Texans have JJ Watt but because he can't play QB for more than one or two trick plays they will never go anywhere. The Colts have Andrew Luck but since he can't block for himself he's not going anywhere either. In basketball there are fewer other people on the court and the superstar player gets it for significantly more possessions. Yes I'm aware
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Jan 4, 2017 20:37
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euphronius posted:Football qb and baseball starting pitcher are about the closest thing to an NBA starter in terms of playoff success. I'd say it's still not even close because a QB still relies on performance of other players (Offensive line and receivers) to be good. Starting pitchers are even less. The starting pitcher performance of note in recent years for most people would be Madison Bumgarner for the Giants in 2014. He pitched 21/61 innings for the giants in that series, giving up exactly 1 run. For simplicity sake, let's say that's 1/3. You could argue that this would be like a player in the NBA having a usage rate of 33%. However, you only pitch during half of the game. The other half is spent batting. So really that's equivalent to roughly 16.5% But really again, there is an entire other part of basketball, playing defense, that is not captured in usage percent. 100% of Russ's time there is spent actively participating, because you're never not playing defense, even when the player you're defending doesn't have the ball. Thus starting pitchers effect a game considerably less than star basketball players and it's not even close.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:42
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Russ might not have been the best example lol
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Jan 4, 2017 20:43
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I agree with you it's still not even close as well. That's all I could think of tho in the three major sports.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:45
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euphronius posted:Russ might not have been the best example lol The quality of the defense is not really important
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Jan 4, 2017 20:47
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Rick Carlisle and his gang of old guys was the best championship team.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:48
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It's cool that the playoffs reflect real life and we are all slaves to Fortune's every whim, adrift on the ocean of life with no anchor, IMO
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Jan 4, 2017 20:51
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Panzeh posted:Rick Carlisle and his gang of old guys was the best championship team. Noodle arm Peyton and the Broncos shaming Cam Newton is the NFL's 2011 NBA Finals.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:51
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WhyteRyce posted:Noodle arm Peyton and the Broncos shaming Cam Newton is the NFL's 2011 NBA Finals. it was cool except LeBron's Heat ascended as they were destined to in the following two years, while Carolina is really depressing now.
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Jan 4, 2017 20:58
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the_american_dream posted:Re: Javale Ehh, seems like the MJs and Kobes of the league are generally unhappy people. They sacrifice all sorts of personal stuff in order to be able to Always Beat Other People Always and they wind up isolated and weird. There's a certain amount of diminishing returns up at the top and if he can already provide for his family and those around him he really doesn't need to make himself (and them) unhappy dedicating himself to a game. I think it's a good way to be, no need to care exclusively about the job.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:09
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Kobe seems pretty happy and together . Idk.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:10
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Paul Zuvella posted:Hockey is a crapshoot, average teams win the Stanley cup all the time.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:12
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Bush Did Outer Heaven posted:it was cool except LeBron's Heat ascended as they were destined to in the following two years, while Carolina is really depressing now. The plight of every NFC South team that has achieved any success.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:16
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euphronius posted:Kobe seems pretty happy and together . Idk. To me he was a miserable rear end in a top hat until the retirement tour year when he was practically forced to appreciate the world.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:17
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EvanTH posted:Ehh, seems like the MJs and Kobes of the league are generally unhappy people. They sacrifice all sorts of personal stuff in order to be able to Always Beat Other People Always and they wind up isolated and weird.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:20
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the_american_dream posted:Re: Javale Not everyone likes their job and links their personal development to it. If he truly enjoyed basketball and invented ways that it was actually important, sure, but he clearly doesn't care that much and it says nothing about him that he's not fully interested in putting in untold effort towards something he doesn't care about. I don't think people are stupid for not wanting to become the best Best Buy salesman in the world
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Jan 4, 2017 21:31
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Spring Break My Heart posted:It has crapshoot aspects with lots of 1v8 upsets but unless you're going back to pre-WW2 days I can't agree with this at all. We're still seen the Cup being passed around between the ruling class of elite teams these past few years to where there's been 4 different champs in the past 8 seasons with pretty loaded lineups. Which average teams do you think have won it? I don't watch hockey to be completely frank. I'm mostly going by how from an outside prospective there are way more upsets in hockey (lower seeds beating higher seeds) and an 8th seed won the championship, which will probably never happen in basketball unless something super weird happens.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:37
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Sixers just waived Hollis Thompson.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:27
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ex post facho posted:ah yea. that's still only 8 teams that have appeared even when over half of the league makes the playoffs each year All salary capped leagues end up as asset management games, The team who wins has the lowest salary:talent ratio. In the NBA, it's a matter of getting superstars on max deals that don't pay them their true value and journeymen willing to take less to be on a good team, in the NFL, it's getting your QB to take half or 2/5ths of the salary he'd get on the open market, then bugging the other team's communications, filming their practices, and whatever else the patriots do. That's just how it is. The other option is for teams to spend as much as they like, and then you end up with 2 team leagues, maybe 4 if you pull in an infinite amount of gulf and russian oligarch capital. In the end it's a tv entertainment product, a tv revenue rake, and municipal fund stealing and tax evasion racket, and it's working pretty well. You just have to enjoy the games as they come and not worry about the outcome of the last 7 games of the 1000000 games of the season. Enjoy the ball. Don't worry about the number flashing on the screen. It's not real. None of it matters. It's just a TV show
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Jan 4, 2017 22:32
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Being a basketball fan is about understanding that it's morally indecent to look at the score widget during Zach LaVine Year One Dunk highlights videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEBOffHcpBc
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Jan 4, 2017 22:35
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Dejan Bimble posted:All salary capped leagues end up as asset management games, The team who wins has the lowest salary:talent ratio. In the NBA, it's a matter of getting superstars on max deals that don't pay them their true value and journeymen willing to take less to be on a good team, in the NFL, it's getting your QB to take half or 2/5ths of the salary he'd get on the open market, then bugging the other team's communications, filming their practices, and whatever else the patriots do. That's just how it is. Trust The Process
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Jan 4, 2017 22:36
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Metapod posted:Yes I'm aware then why yell obnoxiously as if you aren't
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Jan 4, 2017 22:43
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EvanTH posted:Ehh, seems like the MJs and Kobes of the league are generally unhappy people. They sacrifice all sorts of personal stuff in order to be able to Always Beat Other People Always and they wind up isolated and weird. I think the Kobe and MJs are just obsessed with winning at all costs so they are intensely focused for eight months out of the year and that's one of the reasons they were as great as they were. Kobe's "what's there to be happy about?" press conference illustrates this beautifully. Pay me enough money and I'll care exclusively about your ballsack.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:50
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Basketball as a game is just more conducive to the most talented team winning due to the high number of scoring opportunities. The game itself doesn't have much variance. Even in college, mediocre teams can't win a single elimination tournament. A game or two, sure, but rarely more than that. When you add in that the NBA has a best of 7 playoff format, it's not surprising that it's pretty much all chalk every year. In the last 20 years, only three non top-3 seeds have made it to the finals, and only one of those was really legit (Boston as the 4 in 2010). You had Dallas as the 4 in 06 with the third best record, but Denver was the 3 while having the same record as the 8 due to the silly division winner seeding rules, and New York as the 8 in a 50-game lockout year.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:51
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Anyone got the Dwayne Casey timeout gif?
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Jan 4, 2017 22:58
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I am thinking that Javale's response was more of a "gently caress you" to being told that if he only tried harder and wasn't such an idiot he'd be more successful. How else are you supposed to respond to that?
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Jan 4, 2017 23:00
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A thing that I've heard people complain about w/r/t NBA parity is the relatively recent phenomenon of free-agency-constructed superteams where multiple stars take deals below their value like the LeBron Heat and the Light Years Ahead Warriors. Of course the solution to that is pretty obvious (getting rid of max contracts or substantially increasing their dollar amount).
Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 23:12
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Paul Zuvella posted:Dallas: Drafted Dirk, had all of their FA signings work in '11 While your point is correct, trades were more important to the 2011 Mavs than the free agency. The two biggest names they signed that summer that weren't previously on the team were Ian Mahinmi and Corey Brewer. OzFactor posted:I am thinking that Javale's response was more of a "gently caress you" to being told that if he only tried harder and wasn't such an idiot he'd be more successful. How else are you supposed to respond to that? Focus more on your career instead of play well enough to get benched on a team that desperately needed an athletic rim protecter. Spacebump fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 23:13
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