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Impermanent posted:Oh I agree with you, you were just the last to speak on the topic. Ah, understood. So are other thread-goers here involved with DSA?
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Jan 5, 2017 21:57
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G.C. Furr III posted:wot are u talking about m8; I am refering specifically to rudatrons definition of imperialism as the extraction of resources from the periphery to supply a protected core manurfacturing base which is not the marxist conception of imperialism and you start on the whole USSR schtick apropos of my butt Left-coms, Maoists, and Trotskyists (of the Tony Cliff persuasion) all agree that Soviet imperialism is a thing
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Jan 5, 2017 21:58
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unbutthurtable posted:Ah, understood. i am and like HE said your local groups can vary quite a bit. i'm not particularly impressed with national but you do have the freedom to run your group pretty independently and establish your own bylaws. houston and austin both allow democratic centralists to join even though that's against the national bylaws. check yours out because it being a big tent makes it very good to meet leftists of a variety of stripes and help radicalize social dems
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Jan 5, 2017 22:10
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jarofpiss posted:i am and like HE said your local groups can vary quite a bit. i'm not particularly impressed with national but you do have the freedom to run your group pretty independently and establish your own bylaws. houston and austin both allow democratic centralists to join even though that's against the national bylaws. check yours out because it being a big tent makes it very good to meet leftists of a variety of stripes and help radicalize social dems Oh yeah, I'm already a member and on an organizing committee for a new branch of the NYC chapter in Queens. NYC is pretty rad since the national office is located here and there's some overlap with the national people in the city. What are your concerns with the national? I'm not saying I can do anything about them personally, but I can keep it in mind if I ever get higher people's ears. One of the things I've noticed is that the structure doesn't completely exist yet to do things in a cohesive way, but it's getting there. Right now it goes Chapter > National, and it's just kind of a free for all in between. We were talking at a committee meeting the other night about how to build out intermediary regional organization to tackle more broad, but not quite universal issues. But, honestly, there's a lot of work to be done.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:16
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Serf posted:chapo trap house makes 31,000 per month on Patreon, what more income do they need lol Chapo Trap House listeners are called Grey Wolves? *Sigh* Another American leftist media group with the same name as lovely Turkish fascists.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:33
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Yossarian-22 posted:Left-coms, Maoists, and Trotskyists (of the Tony Cliff persuasion) all agree that Soviet imperialism is a thing still you seem to be bringing in all sorts of stuff irelevant to the original comment on a specific marxist definition of what imperialism is, which would only be resolved if you explained how your conception of imperialism differed from the leninist one. You're the one who keeps bringing up soviet imperialism or lack of despite me saying nothing about it.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:34
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can you please stop using so many big words
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Jan 5, 2017 22:39
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OhFunny posted:Chapo Trap House listeners are called Grey Wolves? They did it on purpose this time though.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:45
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Isn't democratic centralism just the principle behind a caucus, or am I missing something.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:46
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I feel a little left out. To go to any meetings for organizations here I have to drive 3+ hours. The only local stuff I do is with the college Democrats here which are pretty left. I'm starting a socialist club here at college this semester though.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:52
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https://twitter.com/GavinSPursley/status/816144936437477376 literal grannies at better at bashing the fash than ~antifa~ are
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Jan 5, 2017 23:01
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GunnerJ posted:Isn't democratic centralism just the principle behind a caucus, or am I missing something. Depends on the internal culture; it can be an agreement to act in accordance with party policy and accept the results of all party decisions no matter what you argued for before the vote (so you go out and argue the line in public, vote the way the party decided to vote, etc) rather than just taking a step back and letting the winners get on with it, however with insular lovely groups with bad internal democracy it's a bludgeon to use against anyone who starts to make waves by doing or theorising something that the entrenched party leaders and staff don't want to happen.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:05
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G.C. Furr III posted:still you seem to be bringing in all sorts of stuff irelevant to the original comment on a specific marxist definition of what imperialism is, which would only be resolved if you explained how your conception of imperialism differed from the leninist one. You're the one who keeps bringing up soviet imperialism or lack of despite me saying nothing about it. idk what we're even arguing about anymore. I'm just saying that imperialism isn't exclusively the domain of the West nor private capital
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Jan 5, 2017 23:30
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Maoist third worldism was popular in LF because it's a great way to sit on your rear end and whine that workers just don't have enough class consciousness for you to try and organize instead of just shitposting.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:46
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Fiction posted:Maoist third worldism was popular in LF because it's a great way to sit on your rear end and whine that workers just don't have enough class consciousness for you to try and organize instead of just shitposting. I figured it was a "You think you're more communist than me? Well check THIS out" joke that became real when LF posters started embracing mental illness.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:49
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the MTW stuff in LF was almost entirely ironic
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Jan 6, 2017 00:04
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Karl Barks posted:the MTW stuff in LF was almost entirely ironic everything ironic eventually becomes real
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Jan 6, 2017 00:05
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what's the one where the revolution comes when the space aliens (who being a technologically advanced society and therefore naturally communists because they're more advanced) come visit?
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Jan 6, 2017 00:06
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lol wasn't there an entire thread in LF talking about mental illness? not like, policy, just like people talking about how hosed up they were
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Jan 6, 2017 00:07
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LF wsa the best!
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Jan 6, 2017 00:07
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jarofpiss posted:what's the one where the revolution comes when the space aliens (who being a technologically advanced society and therefore naturally communists because they're more advanced) come visit? Posadism. The Peoples Bomb!
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Jan 6, 2017 00:09
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namesake posted:Posadism. just read the wikipedia article and now i want to know if dolphins are communists
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Jan 6, 2017 00:14
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Karl Barks posted:the MTW stuff in LF was almost entirely ironic like the racism in 4chan?
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Jan 6, 2017 00:33
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jarofpiss posted:just read the wikipedia article and now i want to know if dolphins are communists bottle-nose dolphins are imperialists and engaging in porpoise-cide in the SF bay area right now since climate change has allowed them to venture farther north into the traditional territory of porpoises http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Porpicide-Bottlenose-dolphins-killing-porpoises-2309298.php
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Jan 6, 2017 00:54
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Doc Hawkins posted:like the racism in 4chan? lol there was a lot of that in LF too
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Jan 6, 2017 01:15
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Maybe we live in a reality so ironic and absurd that our only chance is an ideology of Marxism-Trumpism
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Jan 6, 2017 02:14
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Trump has seized the federal government more effectively than any Bolshevik ever has since Lenin, to be honest
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Jan 6, 2017 02:40
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The racism in 4chan was originally ironic but more and more new posters came and it was suddenly real.
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Jan 6, 2017 02:44
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Yossarian-22 posted:Maybe we live in a reality so ironic and absurd that our only chance is an ideology of Marxism-Trumpism Just gaslight Trump supporters into becoming Marxists by telling Trump converted to Marxism and then the Dems and GOPe launched a stealth coup against him, and anyone telling them this is bullshit, including Trump's own twitter, is just part of the lungenpresse trying to hide the truth from them. What better proof do they need that the media is conspiring against them than MSNBC, Fox, and Alex Jones all trying to trick the American people into thinking that Trump isn't a communist?
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Jan 6, 2017 02:49
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unbutthurtable posted:I'm involved in DSA in NYC, and trying to build out a group in one of the outer boroughs. I'm curious what your, and other thread posters', thoughts on the group are. I'm also curious about how they relate to other leftist groups, but that may be more contentious. Virtually all of them listen to Chapo Trap House. Including me. So I think that sort of sets them out. Personally I like Delete Your Account's politics more but they just aren't as funny.
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Jan 6, 2017 06:34
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:The the r-word in 4chan was originally ironic but more and more new posters came and it was suddenly real.  meme magic works
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Jan 6, 2017 06:46
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Virtually all of them listen to Chapo Trap House. Including me. So I think that sort of sets them out. Personally I like Delete Your Account's politics more but they just aren't as funny. i dont think they're uh, going for the same thing as chapo
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Jan 6, 2017 06:59
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Tinker Tankie Soldier Spy posted:i dont think they're uh, going for the same thing as chapo No, but they're still not funny. They don't have any of the appropriate charisma for their comedic segments.
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Jan 6, 2017 07:09
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Lol have you guys watched any videos from Greece it's like it rains molotovs over there.
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Jan 6, 2017 09:41
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Tinker Tankie Soldier Spy posted:i dont think they're uh, going for the same thing as chapo They do impressions and cold opens sometimes
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Jan 6, 2017 15:42
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Long interview with Taryn Fivek, including a long and good segment on revolutionary party building, especially with respect to WWP ---> Episode 8. I don't really know anything about the rest of the people on this podcast, stumbled on it on ye olde Twitter.
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Jan 6, 2017 18:50
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Yossarian-22 posted:lol no people usually have to resort to mishandling his Algerian conference speech to support this claim — like pulling four- or five-word quotes to get around the bits that nuance or contradict it Yossarian-22 posted:What can you possibly call Soviet intervention in Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan if not imperialism? well... potentially several things, depending on which one in particular (and also on whom you ask). heck, some people claim Cuba intervening in Angola against apartheid South Africa was "imperialist." but there's no reason to beat around the bush: if these fit the bill of imperialism, it should be possible in principle to spell out the extractive relationship quantitatively, without resting on an appeal to personal incredulity. what would you say are some of the more rigorous attempts to do this that you've found? Yossarian-22 posted:Left-coms, Maoists, and Trotskyists (of the Tony Cliff persuasion) all agree that Soviet imperialism is a thing true. in fairness, though, they also tend to make the "USSR was state capitalist" argument, which is basically the socialist version of "that's crony capitalism"
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Jan 6, 2017 19:14
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Agean90 posted:https://twitter.com/GavinSPursley/status/816144936437477376 Native Grannies: Chasing Nazis and Stealing Flags Antifa: Whining Online and Torturing Disabled Adutls checks out
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Jan 6, 2017 19:34
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Aeolius posted:true. in fairness, though, they also tend to make the "USSR was state capitalist" argument, which is basically the socialist version of "that's crony capitalism" Not really. Crony capitalism is obviously capitalism with capitalists acting according to the principles of capitalism and capturing the state to advance their own interests which is somehow bad sportsmanship or something according to liberals who criticise it but still like capitalism. State capitalism argues that the workers weren't actually in control, the party was and the party became estranged from the workers, meaning it wasn't socialism.
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Jan 6, 2017 19:34
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Also, much of what we call American imperialism doesn't fit the strictly academic definition of imperialism but "neo-colonialism" or w/e. It's not like we have settlers in these various countries where we have military bases, nor are they part of our "empire" in any official capacity The most important thing of note is our proxy rulers who spend vast amounts of money on their military capacity--at the expense of social programs--who all maintain solid trade/diplomatic relations with the U.S. That's also applicable to puppet regimes of the USSR, even if those nations had more of a safety net for their poorest citizens under the ideology/system of state socialism
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Jan 6, 2017 20:23
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