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Mordiceius posted:It's just a reminder that cleric stance is a bad and unfun mechanic. stop it stop it stop it STOP HOLY gently caress every goddamn time someone dares to loving MENTION cleric stance you've gotta rush in here, guns blazing We've literally had this discussion, copy and paste, less than a month ago, and GUESS WHAT CLERIC STANCE STILL EXISTS Get the gently caress over it, or at least stop derailing the thread.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:44
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Reiterpallasch posted:e: monks just have big tp problems in this game, especially if they're using rockbreaker or have a lot of skill speed, so it's not just you Honestly I have way, way worse tp issues as DRG than monk. Only long slogs with near 100% uptime like A9S cause me to watch the tp bar with concern. Or if there are just too many things to Rockbreak and the rest of the party isn't contributing.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:45
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, he said, as he queued up Perfect Balance + 5x Rockbreaker
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Jan 5, 2017 22:48
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As a DRG, in A9S with a RF-tier party (meaning no speed clears), I will eventually go dry even if I literally never AoE, unless I get paeon, goad, or whatever the mch thing is called. It's pretty dire.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:51
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Mordiceius posted:I get the point of cleric stance, I just don't think that it is a good enough reason to keep it. "Blood for Blood is an ability that works as barrier. For good players, it is basically nothing. For bad players, it heavily punishes them." "[Tank's DPS/Aggro Stance] is an ability that works as barrier. For good players, it is basically nothing. For bad players, it heavily punishes them. " ...etc. You're complaining that combat modes with positives and negatives exist in a video game and that people should just have a mediocre setup at all times instead. Reiterpallasch posted:, he said, as he queued up Perfect Balance + 5x Rockbreaker That last pull before the 2nd Gubal HM boss. All the Rockbreaker spam followed by rushing the boss while keeping GL3 going.  cheetah7071 posted:As a DRG, in A9S with a RF-tier party (meaning no speed clears), I will eventually go dry even if I literally never AoE, unless I get paeon, goad, or whatever the mch thing is called. It's pretty dire. Yes hello welcome to the life of a Monk. Especially early on with ~900 skill speed. And then your AST uses an Arrow card. 
Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 22:51
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Mordiceius posted:I get the point of cleric stance, I just don't think that it is a good enough reason to keep it. Again, CS is a 5-second cooldown. If you hit it a little too early when you liked, you're probably not that screwed. If you hit it at a bad point, you can always use benediction as a WHM, rouse as a SCH, or essential dignity as an AST (admittedly this probably won't be enough but will buy you time until it's off CD). You can also stoneskin as a last resort since that isn't impacted by either INT or MND. Cleric stance would probably get redesigned and you and the other healers probably still wouldn't use it because you've taken the mindset that healers shouldn't DPS. People who refuse to use CS are probably the same people that hoard megalixers in mainline FF games and never use them because "hey you never know when you might REALLY need one!"
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Jan 5, 2017 22:54
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i hoard elixirs in ffv (what if i need them on NED) and always end up regretting it
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Jan 5, 2017 22:57
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I was gonna say "go full guild wars, only 8 skills, no more bullshit cooldowns and mode changes!", but then I remembered gw1 skill sets can be several times more elaborate in execution and timing than cleric stance. Or anything else in ff14 for that matter. No, cleric stance is fine.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:58
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I feel like it would be better if the punishment for cleric stancing wrong was no dps instead of no heals. But I'm also sick of the cleric stance derail armchair developer talk so pretend I didn't say that.
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Jan 5, 2017 22:58
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I enjoy DPSing as a healer and would just prefer if DPS spells scaled off Mind. Finding time to DPS while healing already requires you to know whether or not you have the time to cast the spell. You already have to consider "Is this a good time for me to cast Malefic/Stone?" If you spend too much time focusing on DPSing, you're already getting punished. Cleric Stance just feels like an extra punishment on top of that. Furthermore, healers have to consider mana concerns. I can't just blow all my mana on Gravity/Holy when there's a big pull because if poo poo hits the fan, I'm out of mana for heals. Klades posted:I feel like it would be better if the punishment for cleric stancing wrong was no dps instead of no heals. I'd be cool with that too. Healing is not our only role, but it is our primary role. So don't punish our primary functionality. Put the punishment on secondary capabilities.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:00
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cheetah7071 posted:As a DRG, in A9S with a RF-tier party (meaning no speed clears), I will eventually go dry even if I literally never AoE, unless I get paeon, goad, or whatever the mch thing is called. It's pretty dire. In that case can you just do nothing and recover TP while the boss is tethered to Faust's corpse, or do even bad parties do that the fast way now? Also, same. We ran with no brd/mch this week and TP was super dry by the end of A9.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:00
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Evil Fluffy posted:Yes hello welcome to the life of a Monk. Especially early on with ~900 skill speed. And then your AST uses an Arrow card. That wasn't an Arrow card. It was just you entering the Speed Force. (I usually find it funny if they do it unannounced. Once.)
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Jan 5, 2017 23:01
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VHGS posted:In that case can you just do nothing and recover TP while the boss is tethered to Faust's corpse, or do even bad parties do that the fast way now? Yeah I end up doing that. Still don't have enough of a buffer to AoE though.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:02
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Mordiceius posted:I enjoy DPSing as a healer and would just prefer if DPS spells scaled off Mind. Finding time to DPS while healing already requires you to know whether or not you have the time to cast the spell. You already have to consider "Is this a good time for me to cast Malefic/Stone?" If you spend too much time focusing on DPSing, you're already getting punished. Cleric Stance just feels like an extra punishment on top of that. Well, there's your problem. You need to rethink your mindset to "I'm DPSing right now, do I absolutely need to heal?" and if you do, you drop CS, heal up, get back into CS and go back to DPSing. The nice thing about FFXIV is that fights are scripted. If you know a tankbuster is coming up, you can prep for it. In any mainline content, MP is rarely a concern as long as you're using shroud/assize/lum aether/ewer when they're up . Sure, you can slow down your gravity / holy spam when your MP gets to a low level and your refresh CDs aren't up. This seems to be more of an issue of you not wanting to push the buttons you have and you want the game to dumb down and cater to your level when most other healers have figured that out, because it really isn't that hard. Reiterpallasch posted:i hoard elixirs in ffv (what if i need them on NED) and always end up regretting it My legit favorite thing about FF15 is that dungeons force you to spend your well earned elixirs because your max HP drops over time as you fight monsters.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:08
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seiferguy posted:This seems to be more of an issue of you not wanting to push the buttons you have and you want the game to dumb down and cater to your level when most other healers have figured that out, because it really isn't that hard.  Way more articulate, thanks.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:11
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seiferguy posted:This seems to be more of an issue of you not wanting to push the buttons you have and you want the game to dumb down and cater to your level when most other healers have figured that out, because it really isn't that hard. 
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Jan 5, 2017 23:16
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Honestly now that it was explained the only real problem I have with Cleric Stance is how annoying it is toggle and I suppose I'll just get used to that. I'm not exactly salivating at the thought of the mechanic but 'sometimes you're punished for bad switching' makes it seem fine. My primary concern with it was that I was switching constantly AND it seemed like a complete waste of time.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:17
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Honestly a far more interesting and far less fiddly mechanic would be all healer DPS spells coming with a 3-second debuff to your healing.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:19
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for the record i would be 100% down with cleric stance automatically turning off before you cast a healing spell, if it was off cooldown
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Jan 5, 2017 23:20
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Reiterpallasch posted:for the record i would be 100% down with cleric stance automatically turning off before you cast a healing spell, if it was off cooldown Same, honestly, a large majority of my announce with cleric stance is how sticky that ability feels. I can't count how many times I've too enthusiastically turned it off and accidentally immediately triggered it on. Luckily, most of the time it wasn't in a critical moment. cheetah7071 posted:Honestly a far more interesting and far less fiddly mechanic would be all healer DPS spells coming with a 3-second debuff to your healing. That would be cool too.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:23
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Reiterpallasch posted:for the record i would be 100% down with cleric stance automatically turning off before you cast a healing spell, if it was off cooldown Yeah, when i was asking about automation I was thinking more "DPS spells automatically trigger it, healing spells automatically deactivate it" but if macros suck I guess that's kinda out of the window.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:24
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cheetah7071 posted:Honestly a far more interesting and far less fiddly mechanic would be all healer DPS spells coming with a 3-second debuff to your healing. "I have to worry about the timing of every single damaging spell I cast" seems a lot more fiddly that a 5 second toggle.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:28
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Mordiceius posted:I can't count how many times I've too enthusiastically turned it off and accidentally immediately triggered it on. You Are Bad At This. It's not a real issue. And the guy saying a 3 second debuff is a solution is off his rocker too, that's actively worse than the status quo. RIGHT NOW, you can cast Holy 5x, hit Cleric Stance while the last spell is firing off, and hit someone with Tetragrammaton. In the timespan of a GCD.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:30
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Saigyouji posted:"I have to worry about the timing of every single damaging spell I cast" seems a lot more fiddly that a 5 second toggle. More difficult maybe but it seems self-evidently much less fiddly to me. The process for going going from DPS to healing becomes "wait a few seconds", instead of "press this button, make sure you pressed it late enough it actually went off, and make sure you didn't mash it like you do with every other button in the game, and if you screw this up it takes 5 seconds to try again."
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Jan 5, 2017 23:32
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Die Sexmonster! posted:You Are Bad At This.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:36
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly now that it was explained the only real problem I have with Cleric Stance is how annoying it is toggle and I suppose I'll just get used to that. I'm not exactly salivating at the thought of the mechanic but 'sometimes you're punished for bad switching' makes it seem fine. My primary concern with it was that I was switching constantly AND it seemed like a complete waste of time. I think good game design includes a risk / reward for using certain abilities. This is also true for all tank classes with tank and DPS stances. Tank stances allow you to build threat easily and mitigate damage, whereas DPS stances make you do more damage and in the case of WAR (and a lesser extent, DRK) give you some super sweet abilities to use as well. Someone else already listed things DPS have to juggle that can make or break their DPS. Cleric stance is really no different. Remove it and it kind of becomes a cakewalk class.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:37
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The OF is coming from inside this thread! 
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Jan 5, 2017 23:37
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Congrats everyone we found a less interesting topic than Atma chat.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:38
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cheetah7071 posted:More difficult maybe but it seems self-evidently much less fiddly to me. The process for going going from DPS to healing becomes "wait a few seconds", instead of "press this button, make sure you pressed it late enough it actually went off, and make sure you didn't mash it like you do with every other button in the game, and if you screw this up it takes 5 seconds to try again." Luckily SE probably won't try to cater to the people for whom "Press this button before you want to DPS and press it again before you want to heal, but don't try to switch too fast" is too complicated.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:41
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Here, have some better/worse/far more hilarious OF. https://twitter.com/ff14forums_txt/status/817143719354912769
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Jan 6, 2017 00:10
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Pikavangelist posted:Here, have some better/worse/far more hilarious OF. 
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Jan 6, 2017 00:13
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Everytime I see that GARO gear I salivate. Then I just want to know how much PvP i have to suffer through to get it.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:23
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It ain't worth it man. Just grab the undyable versions from the saucer and don't subject yourself to lovely MMO PVP.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:25
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'Twas a good Christmas! SQUAWK!   
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Jan 6, 2017 00:35
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly now that it was explained the only real problem I have with Cleric Stance is how annoying it is toggle and I suppose I'll just get used to that. I'm not exactly salivating at the thought of the mechanic but 'sometimes you're punished for bad switching' makes it seem fine. My primary concern with it was that I was switching constantly AND it seemed like a complete waste of time. There is a Cleric Stance only issue of it being particularly sticky for some reason. I know I'm not the only one who's clicked it on/off without it actually going on/off. It's something to get used too/blame when wipes happen.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:38
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Reiterpallasch posted:for the record i would be 100% down with cleric stance automatically turning off before you cast a healing spell, if it was off cooldown Yeah, that'd be fine and I'd certainly appreciate it. It would make it a lot less fiddly.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:45
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EponymousMrYar posted:There is a Cleric Stance only issue of it being particularly sticky for some reason. I know I'm not the only one who's clicked it on/off without it actually going on/off. It's something to get used too/blame when wipes happen. Yeah, I admit I noticed that but my assumption was "I'm bad and misclicking".
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Jan 6, 2017 00:53
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seal rock is pretty fun/funny if you have people to play with and the queues are actually poppin'
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Jan 6, 2017 00:59
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Stance toggles have always been a bit weird in FFXIV. Since 3.3 I keep switching to deliverance from defiance and keeping my wrath stacks. It's kind of annoying because I wanted to use decimate instead of steel cyclone but there we go. I connect from Australia so I would not be surprised if that played a part in the issue. I am also now discovering the weird world of mudra latency as I level ninja.
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Jan 6, 2017 01:01
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Mrs.Nameko posted:'Twas a good Christmas! SQUAWK! I am always confused as to why anyone would use anything besides the chocobo. No other mount can equip hats or little aviator goggles 
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Jan 6, 2017 01:39
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