AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

I'm talking more along the lines of, "we're going to engage the enemy fleet in 2 hours, form a line abreast formation", rather than travelling everywhere that way. Maybe I have not put enough research into it, but it seems that a lot of battles, from the age of sail to WWII involved fleets starting an engagement in a column formation and having to wait their turn to . . .turn, rather than going line abreast.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 04:54

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# ? May 27, 2024 03:11

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

Columns (again, even in "box" type formations ships were organized into small divisional columns IIRC) are way easier to organize and maneuver, I think. Considering how much poo poo they got wrong anyway, in every battle, just imagine how much worse it could have been. With a column system you just have to train most ships to "follow [next ship in line]" and you've got a chain that you can maneuver by passing orders to a single other ship.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 05:02

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

It also allows you to mass your firepower. The time required for maneuvering into formation wasn't that big a deal, considering it could take hours to actually pull up alongside your enemy and open fire. Longer, if you were chasing him. If you could "cross the T" by cutting your line in front of his, you could wreak utter havoc by hurling broadside after broadside into the enemy's lead ship with virtual impunity.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 05:14

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Blistex posted:

I'm talking more along the lines of, "we're going to engage the enemy fleet in 2 hours, form a line abreast formation", rather than travelling everywhere that way. Maybe I have not put enough research into it, but it seems that a lot of battles, from the age of sail to WWII involved fleets starting an engagement in a column formation and having to wait their turn to . . .turn, rather than going line abreast.

Not sure what you mean. At Jutland the Grand Fleet started in line abreast formation and deployed into line ahead. At Trafalgar the British fleet fought in line abreast formation. At the Nile they split into two columns. Fleets kind of did whatever was best for the situation. Line ahead is good for concentrating firepower, since every ship in the division can shoot at the same point.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 05:59

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

Wingnut Ninja posted:

"We need to go back to doing things more like that".

[url=http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:j7ha0AhgCyQJ:http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...1&hl=fr&ct=clnk]- Loren Thompson[/url]

I cant help but think "oval office oval office oval office" every time Loren Thompson posts anything.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 06:10

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

A couple of pages ago we were talking about the aging and failing USAF fleet...

From a couple of months ago:
Flying boom literally falls off KC-10 in flight

and yesterday:
Engine literally falls off B-52 in flight

:geno:

Yep. Things are pretty darn good. :geno:

# ? Jan 5, 2017 21:35

Mortabis: Jul 8, 2010; I am stupid

Oh come on, it's got 7 more.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 21:36

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

As a pilot friend of mine called it, "the dreaded seven engine final approach".

# ? Jan 5, 2017 21:45

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

About 5 years ago, an AWACS forward lower lobe partially flooded with JP-8 from a manifold that had a hole form from rubbing against a piece of equipment. The FE who discovered it said that the fuel puddle was an inch or two deep at the time of discovery shortly after takeoff.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 22:45

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:03

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Godholio posted:

From a couple of months ago:
Flying boom literally falls off KC-10 in flight

For some reason I'm amusing myself imagining this fell someplace and someone decided to make a huge bong out of it.

"Dude, we'll call it the 'Ricola' bong..."

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:05

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Crazycryodude posted:

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

Book recommendations:

LAST STAND OF TIN CAN SAILORS
SHATTERED SWORD
JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN

And many more

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:08

hogmartin: Mar 27, 2007

Crazycryodude posted:

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

You won't really miss much jumping right in, but you won't regret reading it from all the way back either. It's basically:

- this old plane was sweet, here are black and white pics and a big writeup
- these old planes were sweet, here are some pics from the air show
- here's a wacky Cold War doomsday weapon that would be rejected by a James Bond movie for being too ridiculous. It was finally decommissioned in 1997 after serving for thirty years.

There's a lot more too, but it's not like there's some narrative you'll miss out on. Just sweet plane pics.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:14

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

If you do chose to read the thread, skip about 15 posts if there's ever a picture of a Constellation posted. It's mostly me throwing up in my mouth.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:20

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Crazycryodude posted:

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

If you have to read only one page, #334 is a pretty good one.

Phi230 posted:

Book recommendations:

LAST STAND OF TIN CAN SAILORS
SHATTERED SWORD
JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN

And many more

Red Eagles is also pretty interesting.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:22

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Oh also don't forget Pacific Crucible, The Conquering Tide, and Neptune's Inferno

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:24

Mortabis: Jul 8, 2010; I am stupid

None of those are cold war books though. Blind Man's Bluff and Command and Control are very thread-appropriate. ~~also every pre-1991 Tom Clancy novel~~

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:29

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

Well fine if we are doing Cold War strictly then

Team Yankee
Red Army
Chieftans

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:34

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Crazycryodude posted:

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

Be aware that if you like this thread, you should probably read the 1000 pages of the Aeronautical Insanity thread, or at least the posts linked in the OP. Lots of very cold war effort posts in there about assorted Cold War aircraft, how to set climb records (it's by flying horizontally at sea level), and while admittedly not Cold War, very good posts about Zeppelins.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:35

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

holocaust bloopers posted:

About 5 years ago, an AWACS forward lower lobe partially flooded with JP-8 from a manifold that had a hole form from rubbing against a piece of equipment. The FE who discovered it said that the fuel puddle was an inch or two deep at the time of discovery shortly after takeoff.

That must've been an interesting conversation. "You found WHAT?"

And then a scrunching sound as the seat cushions of every person on board moved three inches into their rectums.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:43

Hannibal Rex: Feb 13, 2010

Crazycryodude posted:

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

Brian Shul, Sled Driver posted:

There were a lot of things we couldn�t do in an SR-71, but we were the fastest guys on the block and loved reminding our fellow aviators of this fact. People often asked us if, because of this fact, it was fun to fly the jet. Fun would not be the first word I would use to describe flying this plane. Intense, maybe. Even cerebral. But there was one day in our Sled experience when we would have to say that it was pure fun to be the fastest guys out there, at least for a moment.

It occurred when Walt and I were flying our final training sortie. We needed 100 hours in the jet to complete our training and attain Mission Ready status. Somewhere over Colorado we had passed the century mark. We had made the turn in Arizona and the jet was performing flawlessly. My gauges were wired in the front seat and we were starting to feel pretty good about ourselves, not only because we would soon be flying real missions but because we had gained a great deal of confidence in the plane in the past ten months. Ripping across the barren deserts 80,000 feet below us, I could already see the coast of California from the Arizona border. I was, finally, after many humbling months of simulators and study, ahead of the jet.

I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for Walter in the back seat. There he was, with no really good view of the incredible sights before us, tasked with monitoring four different radios. This was good practice for him for when we began flying real missions, when a priority transmission from headquarters could be vital. It had been difficult, too, for me to relinquish control of the radios, as during my entire flying career I had controlled my own transmissions. But it was part of the division of duties in this plane and I had adjusted to it. I still insisted on talking on the radio while we were on the ground, however. Walt was so good at many things, but he couldn�t match my expertise at sounding smooth on the radios, a skill that had been honed sharply with years in fighter squadrons where the slightest radio miscue was grounds for beheading. He understood that and allowed me that luxury.

Just to get a sense of what Walt had to contend with, I pulled the radio toggle switches and monitored the frequencies along with him. The predominant radio chatter was from Los Angeles Center, far below us, controlling daily traffic in their sector. While they had us on their scope (albeit briefly), we were in uncontrolled airspace and normally would not talk to them unless we needed to descend into their airspace.

We listened as the shaky voice of a lone Cessna pilot asked Center for a readout of his ground speed. Center replied: �November Charlie 175, I�m showing you at ninety knots on the ground.�

Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the � Houston Center voice.� I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country�s space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn�t matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.

Just moments after the Cessna�s inquiry, a Twin Beech piped up on frequency, in a rather superior tone, asking for his ground speed. �I have you at one hundred and twenty-five knots of ground speed.� Boy, I thought, the Beechcraft really must think he is dazzling his Cessna brethren. Then out of the blue, a navy F-18 pilot out of NAS Lemoore came up on frequency. You knew right away it was a Navy jock because he sounded very cool on the radios. �Center, Dusty 52 ground speed check�. Before Center could reply, I�m thinking to myself, hey, Dusty 52 has a ground speed indicator in that million-dollar cockpit, so why is he asking Center for a readout? Then I got it, ol� Dusty here is making sure that every bug smasher from Mount Whitney to the Mojave knows what true speed is. He�s the fastest dude in the valley today, and he just wants everyone to know how much fun he is having in his new Hornet. And the reply, always with that same, calm, voice, with more distinct alliteration than emotion: �Dusty 52, Center, we have you at 620 on the ground.�

And I thought to myself, is this a ripe situation, or what? As my hand instinctively reached for the mic button, I had to remind myself that Walt was in control of the radios. Still, I thought, it must be done � in mere seconds we�ll be out of the sector and the opportunity will be lost. That Hornet must die, and die now. I thought about all of our Sim training and how important it was that we developed well as a crew and knew that to jump in on the radios now would destroy the integrity of all that we had worked toward becoming. I was torn.

Somewhere, 13 miles above Arizona, there was a pilot screaming inside his space helmet. Then, I heard it. The click of the mic button from the back seat. That was the very moment that I knew Walter and I had become a crew. Very professionally, and with no emotion, Walter spoke: �Los Angeles Center, Aspen 20, can you give us a ground speed check?� There was no hesitation, and the replay came as if was an everyday request. �Aspen 20, I show you at one thousand eight hundred and forty-two knots, across the ground.�

I think it was the forty-two knots that I liked the best, so accurate and proud was Center to deliver that information without hesitation, and you just knew he was smiling. But the precise point at which I knew that Walt and I were going to be really good friends for a long time was when he keyed the mic once again to say, in his most fighter-pilot-like voice: �Ah, Center, much thanks, we�re showing closer to nineteen hundred on the money.�

For a moment Walter was a god. And we finally heard a little crack in the armor of the Houston Center voice, when L.A.came back with, �Roger that Aspen, Your equipment is probably more accurate than ours. You boys have a good one.�

It all had lasted for just moments, but in that short, memorable sprint across the southwest, the Navy had been flamed, all mortal airplanes on freq were forced to bow before the King of Speed, and more importantly, Walter and I had crossed the threshold of being a crew. A fine day�s work. We never heard another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast.

For just one day, it truly was fun being the fastest guys out there

That's the peak of the thread, right there.

# ? Jan 5, 2017 23:59

Cat Hassler: Feb 7, 2006; Slippery Tilde

PittTheElder posted:

Be aware that if you like this thread, you should probably read the 1000 pages of the Aeronautical Insanity thread, or at least the posts linked in the OP. Lots of very cold war effort posts in there about assorted Cold War aircraft, how to set climb records (it's by flying horizontally at sea level), and while admittedly not Cold War, very good posts about Zeppelins.

I highly recommend Mr. Chips' effort posts about Soviet Cold War aircraft listed in the OP of this thread

# ? Jan 6, 2017 00:07

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Crazycryodude posted:

Well that's horrifying. Just discovered the thread and I'm debating on whether to try and slog through the almost 1000 pages to properly catch up - is there anything vitally important I missed or can I just go back a few pages to catch the current thread of discussion?

On top of all the other suggestions,
Hit "show posts by this user" for iyaayas01 (the OP) and go through at least the first 5 pages

# ? Jan 6, 2017 00:20

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Phi230 posted:

Book recommendations:

LAST STAND OF TIN CAN SAILORS
SHATTERED SWORD
JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN

And many more

Don't forget The Jungle is Neutral.

(For when you need 100 pages about dysentery)

# ? Jan 6, 2017 00:34

Plinkey: Aug 4, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Phi230 posted:

Book recommendations:

LAST STAND OF TIN CAN SAILORS
SHATTERED SWORD
JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN

And many more

Command and Control

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:16

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

Hannibal Rex posted:

That's the peak of the thread, right there.

This.

Also the simulated genie shot against F16s

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:25

Smiling Jack: Dec 2, 2001; I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.

the a-10 coloring book

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:27

Herv: Mar 24, 2005; Soiled Meat

Phi230 posted:

Book recommendations:

LAST STAND OF TIN CAN SAILORS
SHATTERED SWORD
JAPANESE DESTROYER CAPTAIN

And many more

Speaking of the cold war, this reads to me like a beast from another dimension showed up to a regional conflict.
WWII battleship goes unmatched on the korean peninsula

e:

quote:

New Jersey returned to Wonsan 18 July for an exhibition of perfect firing: five gun emplacements demolished with five direct hits.

Herv fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jan 6, 2017

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:31

standard.deviant: May 17, 2012; Globally Indigent

Smiling Jack posted:

the a-10 coloring book

I printed that out and gave it to a former A-10 pilot as his "daily threat brief"--it was glorious.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:33

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

holocaust bloopers posted:

About 5 years ago, an AWACS forward lower lobe partially flooded with JP-8 from a manifold that had a hole form from rubbing against a piece of equipment. The FE who discovered it said that the fuel puddle was an inch or two deep at the time of discovery shortly after takeoff.

Didn't hear about that one.

That Works posted:

This.

Also the simulated genie shot against F16s

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:42

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Hannibal Rex posted:

That's the peak of the thread, right there.

"What's the slowest you've ever flown an SR-71?" was good, too.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 01:44

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Much less humorous, but I'm particularly fond of this tale, about an SR-71 disintegrating at Mach 3, and how the pilot somehow lived to tell about it: http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/weaver_sr71_bailout.html

# ? Jan 6, 2017 02:49

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

Herv posted:

Speaking of the cold war, this reads to me like a beast from another dimension showed up to a regional conflict.
WWII battleship goes unmatched on the korean peninsula

e:

quote:

At sunrise on 25 July 1953 New Jersey was off the key port, rail and communications center of Hungnam, pounding coastal guns, bridges, a factory area, and oil storage tanks. She sailed north that afternoon, firing at rail lines and railroad tunnels as she made for Tanchon, where she launched a whaleboat in an attempt to spot a train known to run nightly along the coast. Her big guns were trained on two tunnels between which she hoped to catch the train, but in the darkness she could not see the results of her six-gun salvo

Seems like after a while they were just letting her cruise up and down the coasts blowing up whatever they could.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 03:45

Fearless: Sep 3, 2003; DRINK MORE MOXIE

Nebakenezzer posted:

Still, though, very interesting. It is slightly depressing to me that a military culture can not only be hosed up, it can be hosed up for several hundred years. So...where does the perceived hyper-competence of the old RN, come from, anyway? A tradition earlier than that?

It comes from the superb quality of British seamanship and the fact that there were enough competent officers in the right places to keep the entire thing from turning into a disaster. The continental blockade was ridiculously hard on ships, sure, but you can't maintain entire fleets at sea for upwards of a year and a half straight with drooling morons at all of the levers of power. The RN did not promote solely on the basis of social connections or wealth; officers had to be demonstrably competent to advance beyond their buy-in rank (midshipman) and had to pass professional exams administered by other professional mariners. It's also a relative thing: sure, the RN may have been dysfunctional but it was rather less dysfunctional than most of its contemporaries. The French Navy of the same period was routinely pillaged for its resources, ranging from money to guns to the gun crews themselves, making it seriously difficult to recover from a massive blow to institutional prestige like Trafalgar.

Consider the brutality of RN discipline at the same time: the 1797 mutinies largely ended the practice of whipping sailors to death and prevented the worst authoritarian excesses from officers, but contemporary British Army officers are recorded as having been amazed at the laxity of naval discipline-- apparently, whatever was going on in the Army at the same time was far nastier.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 04:26

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Bro Enlai posted:

Stopped by the USS Midway yesterday. Nice collection!

The coolest thing on the Midway, hands down, is Major Buang-Ly�s note.

My lovely cellphone snap is better than the images GIS turns up, so here it is:

# ? Jan 6, 2017 04:38

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

shame on an IGA posted:

amoritizing the entire cost of the Hanford site project over that first 10mg and adjusting for inflation, $640B per gram. There's good reason they used a 300lb lump of gold for a doorstop in the Pu room.

A few hundred pounds of gold is nothing when you�re borrowing 14.7 thousand motherfucking tons of silver from the Treasury.

fakeedit: The silver is more than a thousand times more valuable at today�s spot rates. The exact ratio won�t hold for the 1940s, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the difference isn�t by a factor of one thousand.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jan 6, 2017

# ? Jan 6, 2017 04:43

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Platystemon posted:

A few hundred pounds of gold is nothing when you�re borrowing 14.7 thousand motherfucking tons of silver from the Treasury.

fakeedit: The silver is more than a thousand times more valuable at today�s spot rates. The exact ratio won�t hold for the 1940s, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the difference isn�t by a factor of one thousand.

I wasn't able to find silver prices for the 1940s, so I did the math based on today's values.

300 pounds of gold is $5.1 million

14,700 thousand motherfucking tons of silver is $7.8 billion

# ? Jan 6, 2017 05:02

gohuskies: Oct 23, 2010; I spend a lot of time making posts to justify why I'm not a self centered shithead that just wants to act like COVID isn't a thing.

Platystemon posted:

The coolest thing on the Midway, hands down, is Major Buang-Ly�s note.

My lovely cellphone snap is better than the images GIS turns up, so here it is:

I hadn't heard this story before and upon looking it up, it's a cool one. Thanks for sharing! https://tacairnet.com/2015/08/20/a-south-vietnamese-air-force-officer-was-responsible-for-one-of-the-craziest-carrier-landings-of-all-time/

# ? Jan 6, 2017 05:14

Xenoborg: Mar 10, 2007

Godholio posted:

and yesterday:
Engine literally falls off B-52 in flight

Yep. Things are pretty darn good.

We've been trying to get rid of those engines for years...

# ? Jan 6, 2017 05:40

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# ? May 27, 2024 03:11

Syd Midnight: Sep 23, 2005

joat mon posted:

"What's the slowest you've ever flown an SR-71?" was good, too.

I liked the story posted a few months ago about an SR-71 that kept rudely cutting through Swedish airspace all "cant catch me lol" until a Viggen pilot climbing like a bat out of hell made an insane intercept to get a simulated kill on it. Would love to know how surprised that SR-71 crew was when the Viggen locked on to them.

# ? Jan 6, 2017 06:19

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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