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Lord of the Llamas posted:I thought 5 Star were some kind of batshit insane anti-growth party as opposed to fascists? Refer to my previous two posts regarding the 5SM: Mikl posted:Not quoting anyone in particular, but re: the Five-Star Movement, summing up. Mikl posted:[In response to a "the 5SM are not fascists" post]
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Jan 4, 2017 16:44
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Where the gently caress did grampa Le Pen get so much money in the first place, anyway? He couldn't have gotten so many gold fillings from looting Algerian corpses in the fifties, could he?
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Jan 4, 2017 16:52
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Where the gently caress did grampa Le Pen get so much money in the first place, anyway? He couldn't have gotten so many gold fillings from looting Algerian corpses in the fifties, could he? Some cement baron left him 30 million francs and a Mansion in the 70s.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:57
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Keenly awaiting the Fourth (or Fifth? Sixth?) Rome. We're easily in the double digits by now
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Jan 4, 2017 16:57
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Where the gently caress did grampa Le Pen get so much money in the first place, anyway? He couldn't have gotten so many gold fillings from looting Algerian corpses in the fifties, could he? he ate a rich
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Jan 4, 2017 16:58
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BabyFur Denny posted:We're easily in the double digits by now I'm assuming you're talking about century? 
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Jan 4, 2017 16:59
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Pluskut Tukker posted:It's going to differ per country but for the Netherlands, going across the border to work is actually quite rare. This is partly because the Eastern border with Germany is less populated than the rest of the countryy, but mostly because there is a language barrier, a difference in social security and tax systems that can make working across the border quite a hassle, a difference in school systems that makes German employers somewhat hesitant to take on Dutch workers (the German labour market is heavily based on credentials for the sort of jobs that Dutch workers would take), and infrastructure links are also not great everywhere. There's also a difference in workplace culture, where German firms are more hierarchical and Dutch firms more informal. Generalizing very heavily, Dutch people respect authority only conditionally so going to work in Germany takes some adaptation. It's more common for Dutch people to go live across the border and commute to the Netherlands, since housing in the German regions bordering the Netherlands is much cheaper. It is also more common for German university students to come study in the Netherlands, particularly for those studies where there is a numerus clausus in Germany, but also because higher education here is superior in terms of scale (much smaller), international outlook (plenty of programs in English), and quality of facilities. It is more expensive though. There are a ton of Dutch people in Flanders and Brussels, or at least it seems that way to me. But that would be the language factor, I suppose. I don't even really consider them to be 'expats' even if many of them technically fit the definition. What you said about German students coming to the Netherlands is interesting, there were plenty of Dutch students at my (Flemish) university, so I assumed you had strict numerus clausus rules for most courses.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:26
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Good news, I've learned how 2017 is gonna beat out 2016 http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/02/massive-volcano-is-rumblingright-under-one-italys-biggest-cities-report.html And this volcano is apparently something bigger than usual, this article didn't mention it but the non english one I read said it was one of 10 super volcanoes, and the last time one went off was Tambora in 1815, which was followed by 1816, the year without a summer. Basically this whole thing is a huge caldera like yellowstone. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 17:39
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Tesseraction posted:I'm assuming you're talking about century? Nah. But there easily have been a dozen Romes by now.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:42
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His Divine Shadow posted:Good news, I've learned how 2017 is gonna beat out 2016 "This Volcano, known to be called 'the banking system' is expected to perform a supereruption some time in the near future."
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Jan 4, 2017 17:47
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 quote:Dare to follow your dreams... Oh, Belgium...
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Jan 4, 2017 17:49
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Walloons have a good sense of humor, that's ironic for sure. And if that actually is your dream, well, tant mieux.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:02
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His Divine Shadow posted:Good news, I've learned how 2017 is gonna beat out 2016 There's this one, too.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:06
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His Divine Shadow posted:Good news, I've learned how 2017 is gonna beat out 2016 It's -20C in Helsinki right now and I'm happier than I been for ages so I'm personally welcoming the year without a summer.
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Jan 4, 2017 18:40
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Toplowtech posted:So Banks are getting more and more wary of lending to any political formation, not only the FN. UMP had to go beg people for money, and are still not doing so good. They're probably hanging for the next legislative elections where they'll increase their number of seats and get more of this sweet taxpayer money. PS has been riding the gravy train of the last legislatives, but the oasis of UMP will be their drought. And EELV is also struggling, because you don't get money when nobody votes for you. Among cited reasons, the uncertainty of getting payed back as political parties rely a lot on successful elections, and the increasing amount of financial scandals. They also don't want to be associated with a given party, which is tougher for the FN for obvious reasons, but I'm sure nobody wants to be "the banker who worked with Cahuzac or Bygmalion" either. Politics are handling finance like they're Trump's casinos, and they're telling us how they'll fix the economy of the country while they can't even fix their own party. Seems like they could use a cure of austerity!
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Jan 4, 2017 21:15
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Phlegmish posted:What you said about German students coming to the Netherlands is interesting, there were plenty of Dutch students at my (Flemish) university, so I assumed you had strict numerus clausus rules for most courses. It really depends on the individual major. For example, entry to a psychology major is severely limited in Germany, but in the Netherlands it is (was up until a few years ago?) free-for-all entry, so in my border college town psychology is easily 90% Germans. From what I understood the reason why Dutch students are now going to Belgium is mostly economical. Because the Belgian student financial system has not been thoroughly gutted lately and Belgium has no numerus fixus (= limited number of students, entry decided by lottery which is determined by your high school grades) studies at all. So if you lucked out getting into medicine in the Netherlands loving off to Antwerpen becomes a very attractive alternative. Also in general Belgian college costs and room rent are all lower.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:16
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First PS primary polls of the year First Round vote intentions: Manuel Valls 43% Arnaud Montebourg 25% Beno๎t Hamon 22% Vincent Peillon 7% Potential Second Rounds; Valls 55% - Montebourg 45% Valls 57% - Hamon 43% Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 18:40
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Toplowtech posted:First PS primary polls of the year Who the hell is voting Valls??? 
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Jan 5, 2017 20:14
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People who vote PS reflexively, thinking it's left wing? Fifth-columnists? Beats me.
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Jan 5, 2017 20:18
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Who the hell is voting Valls???
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Jan 5, 2017 20:25
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if macron wins the presidency lol i don't even know
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Jan 5, 2017 20:50
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Squalid posted:What's it like living as a European expat in Europe anyway? Is it very common for someone in The Netherlands to take a job in Germany and vice versa? Are there districts in Germany cities full of lots Italians? Is it hard to get a job in Croatia if you don't speak Croatian, if you're like a University Professor or electrical engineer? Depends massively on the field and if it's north or south europe. If you're an engineer, or in IT or biomed and you have a few years experience you can find a job almost anywhere in northern europe since almost every company in those fields speaks english. Outside of that it happens only in rare exceptions where there's a massive shortage in a certain field (teachers, elderly caretakers) and then that country will try to recruit from the adjacent one's border region. Then there's also the category of jobs where it's simply cheaper to hire eastern europeans, such as construction, farm hands, meat packing, transport or prostitution. They usually work through dubious temp agencies and get housing provided by that agency. Germany and to a lesser degree Netherlands suck in engineers something fierce from southern europe for example. Norway did as well, but I don't know if that's currently a thing still. Marine and electrical engineering companies can easily have a 30% foreign workforce. Same for academics. Those markets are almost fully international. If you studied psychology or are trying to find a job in greece then good luck because they don't trust your degree for poo poo and you might as well put "Allahu Akbar" on every second line of your CV because they don't understand your barbaric language either.
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Jan 5, 2017 21:29
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you feelin fucky posted:Depends massively on the field and if it's north or south europe. If you're an engineer, or in IT or biomed and you have a few years experience you can find a job almost anywhere in northern europe since almost every company in those fields speaks english. Outside of that it happens only in rare exceptions where there's a massive shortage in a certain field (teachers, elderly caretakers) and then that country will try to recruit from the adjacent one's border region. Then there's also the category of jobs where it's simply cheaper to hire eastern europeans, such as construction, farm hands, meat packing, transport or prostitution. They usually work through dubious temp agencies and get housing provided by that agency. That seems a bit hyperbolic going by the migrants/expats/whatever I know. According to the Norwegian Institute for Labour and Social Research, about 15% of EU8 (Eastern Europeans basically) workers have been first recruited through temporary staffing agencies, as opposed to about 8% for EU15. Most of the rest have been directly employed (in their first job) by construction and agriculture businesses (~40%), another 14% have been employed directly by hospitality companies (and 6% in cleaning companies which is kinda similar) and 12% directly in manufacturing. Other migrants were mostly first directly employed in administration, healthcare, education and other qualified sectors, making up the rest at about 16%. There's no specific section for engineering, but it's safe to assume it's probably most of the 'other' sector, which is 6% (and maybe a percent of so of the manufacturing sector too). So somewhere between a quarter and a third of qualified migrants are engineers, and one in seven EU8 migrants is in a qualified position, as opposed to one in four for migrants from the older member states. Temp workers are roughly as common as qualified immigrants among the EU8, while being around four times less common than qualified migrants from EU15. Either way most of the intra-eu migrants from both EU8 and EU15 are employed directly and in unqualified professions. e: ended up looking up the data from Norway so I'm not just saying anecdotes e2: Here's data from the UK, showing that the majority of inter-eu migrants/expats do not even have a definite job offer before moving, as well as which sectors migrants work in (doesn't have a section for temp workers unfortunately, and I accept that UK is probably a bit special because of the language accessibility. You can compare it with the Norwegian numbers above to see that)  Table 5 posted:Agriculture, forestry and fishing 22,000 6.5% Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 21:54
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Private Speech posted:I guess it differs from country to country, but I personally don't know any Eastern Europeans (from the EU) who were imported through temp agencies like that into other EU countries (I do in America though) and I know probably more than a hundred in several different EU countries. That's usually associated more with semi-legal immigration from Ukraine and Russia and such. Oh sure lots of unqualified Eastern Europeans (and at least in the UK also young unemployed French, Italians and Spaniards) do temp work, but that's not the same thing, most of the ones I know looked for work directly in the host country. I mean I've read newspaper articles about near-slave-labour gangs that lure people in from Romania, but in my personal experience it's not like that for most people. My anecdotes trump your anecdotes and all that, and I'm sure it happens sometimes, but how many Eastern European immigrants/expats do you personally know? Don't remember saying anything about slave camps but ok. Still, if you don't think there's a massive difference between fields where employees and customers communicate in english and where they don't I don't know what to tell you. That has nothing to do with raah engineering superiority or whatever but simply with employers not hiring people they can't talk to unless they come at a discount.
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Jan 5, 2017 23:03
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you feelin fucky posted:Don't remember saying anything about slave camps but ok. Still, if you don't think there's a massive difference between fields where employees and customers communicate in english and where they don't I don't know what to tell you. That has nothing to do with raah engineering superiority or whatever but simply with employers not hiring people they can't talk to unless they come at a discount. Yeah I mean sure, from an employers perspective you can hire migrants for less which is the main thing that offsets the disadvantages of it, and being able to communicate with people is important. Just saying that it's not limited to engineering and academia only. I've edited my post a bit so that it's not as personal, sorry for that jab at the end. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 23:14
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Private Speech posted:Yeah I mean sure, from an employers perspective you can hire migrants for less which is the main thing that offsets the disadvantages of it, and being able to communicate with people is important. Just saying that it's not limited to engineering and academia only. I've edited my post a bit so that it's not as personal, sorry for that jab at the end. And I have an MEng so I shouldn't exactly talk poo poo about engineers, heh. No worries, the only eastern europeans I personally know are actually a doctor and phd in engineering and I'm pretty sure they're tired of what assumptions people make about them. I did construction myself though and lived in an immigrant neighborhood that saw a large influx of poles in 2008ish. Worst I've seen was a dude walking through a rain gutter 3 stories up without any kind of fall protection at 7pm on a sunday in order to build another story on top. They were their own company though so couldn't blame that on the temp agencies.
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Jan 6, 2017 00:10
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Namarrgon posted:It really depends on the individual major. For example, entry to a psychology major is severely limited in Germany, but in the Netherlands it is (was up until a few years ago?) free-for-all entry, so in my border college town psychology is easily 90% Germans. I think they recently raised tuition to around €1000 (at least at the KUL) from about €500-600 back when I was still a student, but as I understand it that's still much cheaper than in the Netherlands. And yeah, I know quite a few people who study or studied medicine in Leuven, and there are apparently a lot of Dutch people there. I'm all for it. Don't the Germans in your town have trouble following courses in Dutch?
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Jan 6, 2017 08:30
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Leuven right now hovers around the 800 euros range IIRC. Was a lot of student outcry for raising the fees. So yes, a very attractive alternative for Dutch students. Even law (as in, studying Belgian law, a degree that is marginally useful in the Netherlands) has a dozen Dutch students every year.
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Jan 6, 2017 10:24
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Phlegmish posted:Don't the Germans in your town have trouble following courses in Dutch? There's a (mandatory?) six week language course they get. Now as with all things, how well any individual understands the language after that comes on a wide spectrum. Some are barely literate at it even after a full year of living here, some are fluent after the language course. Regardless, it is not unusual for students to repeat the first year, especially in engineering. It helps that a lot of courses are in English though. But again this depends on the major.
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Jan 6, 2017 10:27
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Deltasquid posted:Leuven right now hovers around the 800 euros range IIRC. Was a lot of student outcry for raising the fees. So about 2,5 times cheaper than studying in the Netherlands. Nice. How expensive is it to do another degree if you already got one? Because right now i would have to pay between 7000 and 18000 a year for that, depending on the degree. But our politicians insist we have a knowledge economy and people should be stimulated to be life-long learners guys and people who lose their job should just go back to college to retrain in another field!!! 
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Jan 6, 2017 10:38
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9-Volt Assault posted:So about 2,5 times cheaper than studying in the Netherlands. Nice. How expensive is it to do another degree if you already got one? Because right now i would have to pay between 7000 and 18000 a year for that, depending on the degree. But our politicians insist we have a knowledge economy and people should be stimulated to be life-long learners guys and people who lose their job should just go back to college to retrain in another field!!! It is really expensive to educate college students (if you already have a degree the government may already have paid something like 70,000 to educate you, while you will have paid out at most 10k in tuition fees over the course of your studies). Since the majority of the financial benefits of a college education tends to accrue to students themselves, it is not unreasonable to expect them to cover the costs themselves if they want to be educated further.
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Jan 6, 2017 14:17
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Pluskut Tukker posted:It is really expensive to educate college students (if you already have a degree the government may already have paid something like 70,000 to educate you, while you will have paid out at most 10k in tuition fees over the course of your studies). Since the majority of the financial benefits of a college education tends to accrue to students themselves, it is not unreasonable to expect them to cover the costs themselves if they want to be educated further. Provided by student loans or should they have the cash on hand?
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Jan 6, 2017 15:08
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Pluskut Tukker posted:It is really expensive to educate college students (if you already have a degree the government may already have paid something like 70,000 to educate you, while you will have paid out at most 10k in tuition fees over the course of your studies). Since the majority of the financial benefits of a college education tends to accrue to students themselves, it is not unreasonable to expect them to cover the costs themselves if they want to be educated further. I like how you toss this in as if it's unchallenged fact. Completely ignores the positive externalities of a well educated highly skilled population and also that people who earn more pay more tax anyway.
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Jan 6, 2017 16:57
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I like how you toss this in as if it's unchallenged fact. Completely ignores the positive externalities of a well educated highly skilled population and also that people who earn more pay more tax anyway. These benefits are reduced when the educated people then leave the country to go work elsewhere.
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Jan 6, 2017 17:23
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Cat Mattress posted:These benefits are reduced when the educated people then leave the country to go work elsewhere. It is time to make newer, larger iron curtains.
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Jan 6, 2017 17:26
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I like how you toss this in as if it's unchallenged fact. Completely ignores the positive externalities of a well educated highly skilled population and also that people who earn more pay more tax anyway. I had rewritten a response about benefits to society and how we are all in this together combined with the fact that a professor pays more in taxes than 15 minimum wage employees but in the end did not post because sometimes it just feels like swimming upstream in a river trying to convince people the bootstraps aren't real.
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Jan 6, 2017 17:28
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I like how you toss this in as if it's unchallenged fact. Completely ignores the positive externalities of a well educated highly skilled population and also that people who earn more pay more tax anyway. I think he is talking about getting a second education(like getting another Bachelor's after you've finished your Master's degree).
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Jan 6, 2017 17:29
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Yes, I was talking about getting a second master's degree, or maybe a second bachelor's. I am in fact a great fan of government-subsidized higher education. People here might be surprised to learn that I am well aware of the social benefits of higher education. I would be an even greater fan if the benefits of higher education though weren't so concentrated among the wealthy, including in the Netherlands (another study from the OECD if you happen to have institutional access). Namarrgon posted:I had rewritten a response about benefits to society and how we are all in this together combined with the fact that a professor pays more in taxes than 15 minimum wage employees but in the end did not post because sometimes it just feels like swimming upstream in a river trying to convince people the bootstraps aren't real. This is actually really funny to me: what about the bootstraps for the minimum wage people? In the real world where public resources aren't unlimited, why should those minimum wage people who in all likelihood aren't going to college themselves subsidise someone els้s second master's degree?
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Jan 6, 2017 18:17
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Maybe the answer is to raise minimum wages to liveable levels and make the tax system more progressive and not start adding complexity and arbitrary rules to socially positive things like the education system.
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Jan 6, 2017 18:48
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Maybe the answer is to raise minimum wages to liveable levels and make the tax system more progressive and not start adding complexity and arbitrary rules to socially positive things like the education system. The Dutch tax system is quite progressive and we do a lot of redistribution through various kinds of benefits for housing, childcare and health insurance. I'd be for efforts to get more people into work, but I doubt that raising the current minimum wage is going to accomplish that. Anyway, there's nothing complex about a rule which says that you will have to pay only a fraction of the true cost for your first degree and a larger share for your second. We can argue about who benefits to what extent from the first college degree, but I would require some explanation as to how subsidising some people's second degree yields additional social benefits beyond those already flowing from the first one. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 19:23
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