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let's skip this fishmeching and state the real concern explicitly. nobody gives a gently caress whether a particular random idiot puts a mic in their home that sends recordings to third parties, if they are aware of what it does and agree to it. many ppl care about the normalization of people having such mics in their home, to the point where resisting it becomes socially unworkable. you can always say "if you don't like it, don't use it" but at some point on the tech adoption curve you either cave in, or become crazy old man stallman confined to a Lemote Yeeloong laptop flashed with a 100% FSF approved BIOS, ranting bitterly to anyone who emails you an attachment in .DOC format there's recent precedent. its legit IMO to be wary of giving facebook, google, etc your personal info, but these days network effects make it pretty drat hard to completely avoid them; if consumers were spergs about not signing mandatory binding arbitration agreements we would all have more legal rights, but they aren't, so nearly all the big companies put that poo poo in for things normal people need, like rental contracts and cell phone service. ate all the Oreos posted:permanently amazon'ed and loving it the story of my life: amazon'ed, friend-zoned, and p'zoned
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Jan 6, 2017 22:11
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fishmech posted:what regulation though. you can't just say that, it doesn't mean anything on its own. okay hows this: - traffic always encrypted - only transmit the phoneme tokens, never any actual recording - store nothing local or server, use the phonemes to generate the search ex nihilo - any account leaks get heavily fined & doubly so if they actually stored stuff re above
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Jan 6, 2017 22:16
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Powaqoatse posted:i just wrote "(last price i remembered) dkk per liter in usd per gallon" and didnt click any links yes but the "well, in MY COUNTRY the price is slightly higher/lower" is like the most boring "conversation" ever.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:19
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Lmao if you name your echo anything other than EDI and Jack off to the fantasy of her busty cyber body coming alive in the ai core and loving you
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Jan 6, 2017 22:19
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fishmech posted:what regulation though. you can't just say that, it doesn't mean anything on its own. the current listening behavior, which limits non-"Alexa" prefaced speech and audio to an on-device temporary buffer that is not transmitted off site, should be the standard your deliberate conflation over "listening, locally processing and discarding" and "listening, transmitting off site with indefinite storage" is really lovely here, are you doing it on purpose or just out of ignorance?
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Jan 6, 2017 22:19
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Powaqoatse posted:okay hows this: okay, but i have a secret warrant that says you have to continue to advertise this but actually just send all the recordings to bumblehive
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Jan 6, 2017 22:20
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Dislike button posted:bend over and ill show you i see you've read my fanfic
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Jan 6, 2017 22:21
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Wheany posted:yes but the "well, in MY COUNTRY the price is slightly higher/lower" is like the most boring "conversation" ever. that was the joke mayn idgaf about gas prices, i just slammed that in there for the heck of it
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Jan 6, 2017 22:21
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Powaqoatse posted:okay hows this: what part of this stops a hacker from using the device though. also the tokens are more than enough to reconstruct the search, and could be monitored by a third party of some sort. even the fact that a transmission was made is a form of evidence in itself, and that is very easy to detect. JawnV6 posted:the current listening behavior, which limits non-"Alexa" prefaced speech and audio to an on-device temporary buffer that is not transmitted off site, should be the standard he's literally mad that people have a device that is listening 24/7, which it in fact does. at any given time it could have interpreted ambient noise as its activation command, so you should always treat it as if it is explicitly recording and sending at any given moment. there is no reason to treat it or a similar device as if it is ever not recording.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:24
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you were talking about the hacker, not i. and yes, a search can be reconstructed but it doesnt identify the speaker & thus gives a semblance of plausible deniability re govt bullshit
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Jan 6, 2017 22:25
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[quote="Powaqoatse" post=""46805179"] a search can be reconstructed but it doesn't identify the speaker & thus gives a semblance of plausible deniability re govt bullshit [/quote] this is the "what if turbo hitler escapes from the lab in argentina and takes over the world?! he could see all of our amazon shopping carts!" argument the response is, if turbo hitler escapes, he doesn't need access to your search history to justify putting you on big rocket for a one way trip to the lunar concentration camps, so don't let him out of the lab in the first place
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Jan 6, 2017 22:29
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Powaqoatse posted:you were talking about the hacker, not i. you're complaining about it being bad because privacy. a hacker getting in is clearly relevant. especially since the police can hack too. that police case is already taking the fact that searches happened as "evidence" though. it doesnt matter how much plausible deniability there is. it's like how cops use the pure fact that a computer was accessed at a certain point in the scene of a crime as evidence even when they don't have the ability to see what exactly that access entailed
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Jan 6, 2017 22:33
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angry_keebler posted:this is the "what if turbo hitler escapes from the lab in argentina and takes over the world?! he could see all of our amazon shopping carts!" argument please don't spoil what they find in season 3 of hunting hitler at the formerly nazis run german themed resort
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Jan 6, 2017 22:35
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angry_keebler posted:this is the "what if turbo hitler escapes from the lab in argentina and takes over the world?! he could see all of our amazon shopping carts!" argument true, but if we give turbohitler (1 word btw) too many easy avenues for prosecution, itll take longer for the people to rise up. dictators and despots only last as long as they can maintain a semblance of legitimacy & the unaffected masses can shrug it off (that guy was a pervert anyway, im glad he's gone). fishmech posted:you're complaining about it being bad because privacy. a hacker getting in is clearly relevant. especially since the police can hack too. so you basically both agree it is bad because privacy. im done. we all know its bad and wrong and dumb, but for some reason fishmech really wants people to buy into the bad and dumb and wrong thing, instead of trying to change the world for the better.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:38
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Turns out calling it the gig economy doesn't let you ignore worker's rights http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38534524 quote:A bicycle courier has won an employment rights case in a ruling which could have implications for the "gig economy".
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Jan 6, 2017 22:41
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jre posted:Turns out calling it the gig economy doesn't let you ignore worker's rights hell yes
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Jan 6, 2017 22:42
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Powaqoatse posted:
no, i don't think it's bad. i think you're an idiot if you want the product, but the product should be allowed to exist for idiots who want it. just like people should be allowed to go to a dominatrix and get hosed up, or go to that hotel designed for it being easy to be an exhibitionist. not selling the product doesn't "change the world for the better" lmao
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Jan 6, 2017 22:43
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fishmech posted:no, i don't think it's bad. i think you're an idiot if you want the product, but the product should be allowed to exist for idiots who want it. just like people should be allowed to go to a dominatrix and get hosed up, or go to that hotel designed for it being easy to be an exhibitionist. "REGULATION", NOT "NOT SELLING" ur an idiot hth goddamn. sorry guys. done 4 real.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:45
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Powaqoatse posted:"REGULATION", NOT "NOT SELLING" didn't you say that this thing is something that never should exist that kinda goes beyond regulation dude
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Jan 6, 2017 22:50
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Powaqoatse posted:"REGULATION", NOT "NOT SELLING" but regulation doesnt stop there from being constant recording?? and you said having constant recording is bad???
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Jan 6, 2017 22:51
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fishmech posted:no, i don't think it's bad. i think you're an idiot if you want the product, but the product should be allowed to exist for idiots who want it. just like people should be allowed to go to a dominatrix and get hosed up, or go to that hotel designed for it being easy to be an exhibitionist. to take your insanely thin metaphor to its conclusion, imagine if all of your friends had sexy dominatrices who kicked you in the balls at their house, at the mall, in your and their cars, and your job. imagine if everywhere you went there were latex clad vixens pummeling your genitals until you wept for mercy and/or release from your CBT-5000 chastity iron maiden. imagine if your friends and family thot u were a hosed up weirdo for not wanting your balls brutally owned and to be spit on and called fag and stuff on a st andrews cross. thats the network effects ppl are worried about. in the first 2 decades of the new millennium it became normal to give all ur info to big companies and the nsa and u were left out and ostracized for not doing it. in the next decade it is shaping up to total surveillance and we're installing the panopticon ourselves.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:55
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fishmech posted:but regulation doesnt stop there from being constant recording?? and you said having constant recording is bad??? angry_keebler posted:once the cloud nlp infrastructure is reduced to an 83 cent soc on every garbage tier android device it's no different than typing a search into google.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:56
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Smythe posted:to take your insanely thin metaphor to its conclusion, imagine if all of your friends had sexy dominatrices who kicked you in the balls at their house, at the mall, in your and their cars, and your job. imagine if everywhere you went there were latex clad vixens pummeling your genitals until you wept for mercy and/or release from your CBT-5000 chastity iron maiden. imagine if your friends and family thot u were a hosed up weirdo for not wanting your balls brutally owned and to be spit on and called fag and stuff on a st andrews cross. thats the network effects ppl are worried about. in the first 2 decades of the new millennium it became normal to give all ur info to big companies and the nsa and u were left out and ostracized for not doing it. in the next decade it is shaping up to total surveillance and we're installing the panopticon ourselves. agreeded, especially the bit about the latex and the balls.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:58
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jre posted:Turns out calling it the gig economy doesn't let you ignore worker's rights quote:City Sprint said: "This case has demonstrated that there is still widespread confusion regarding this area of law, which is why we are calling on the government to provide better support and help for businesses across the UK who could be similarly affected." Yes, let's pretend that this is due to confusion, rather than an intentional act by the companies to try and offload all expenses to the employees.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:59
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exploded mummy posted:didn't you say that this thing is something that never should exist alexa what is hyperbole
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Jan 6, 2017 23:01
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JawnV6 posted:regulation could control storage and transmission, christ an active mike doesn't necessitate an AOAC upload. perhaps even require advertising the storage/transmission state auditory or visually the microphone is already always on in order to try to find valid activation words, so you should always treat it as if it's recording an uploading at any second. because again, it's going to have false positives where it thinks it heard its activation when interpreting random sounds. there is no reason to ever treat the device as not actually recording and sending data off so long as it is turned on. Smythe posted:to take your insanely thin metaphor to its conclusion, imagine if all of your friends had sexy dominatrices who kicked you in the balls at their house, at the mall, in your and their cars, and your job. imagine if everywhere you went there were latex clad vixens pummeling your genitals until you wept for mercy and/or release from your CBT-5000 chastity iron maiden. imagine if your friends and family thot u were a hosed up weirdo for not wanting your balls brutally owned and to be spit on and called fag and stuff on a st andrews cross. thats the network effects ppl are worried about. in the first 2 decades of the new millennium it became normal to give all ur info to big companies and the nsa and u were left out and ostracized for not doing it. in the next decade it is shaping up to total surveillance and we're installing the panopticon ourselves. idk man it just sounds a lot like when people swore google glass and clones of it were going to totally catch on and be everywhere by now. instead people didnt actually want them and they died out.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:01
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Smythe posted:to take your insanely thin metaphor to its conclusion, imagine if all of your friends had sexy dominatrices who kicked you in the balls at their house, at the mall, in your and their cars, and your job. imagine if everywhere you went there were latex clad vixens pummeling your genitals until you wept for mercy and/or release from your CBT-5000 chastity iron maiden. imagine if your friends and family thot u were a hosed up weirdo for not wanting your balls brutally owned and to be spit on and called fag and stuff on a st andrews cross. thats the network effects ppl are worried about. in the first 2 decades of the new millennium it became normal to give all ur info to big companies and the nsa and u were left out and ostracized for not doing it. in the next decade it is shaping up to total surveillance and we're installing the panopticon ourselves.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:02
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Smythe posted:to take your insanely thin metaphor to its conclusion, imagine if all of your friends had sexy dominatrices who kicked you in the balls at their house, at the mall, in your and their cars, and your job. imagine if everywhere you went there were latex clad vixens pummeling your genitals until you wept for mercy and/or release from your CBT-5000 chastity iron maiden. imagine if your friends and family thot u were a hosed up weirdo for not wanting your balls brutally owned and to be spit on and called fag and stuff on a st andrews cross. thats the network effects ppl are worried about. in the first 2 decades of the new millennium it became normal to give all ur info to big companies and the nsa and u were left out and ostracized for not doing it. in the next decade it is shaping up to total surveillance and we're installing the panopticon ourselves. https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/255...ing-fetish-gym/
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Jan 6, 2017 23:02
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Smythe posted:to take your insanely thin metaphor to its conclusion, imagine if all of your friends had sexy dominatrices who kicked you in the balls at their house, at the mall, in your and their cars, and your job. imagine if everywhere you went there were latex clad vixens pummeling your genitals until you wept for mercy and/or release from your CBT-5000 chastity iron maiden. imagine if your friends and family thot u were a hosed up weirdo for not wanting your balls brutally owned and to be spit on and called fag and stuff on a st andrews cross. thats the network effects ppl are worried about. in the first 2 decades of the new millennium it became normal to give all ur info to big companies and the nsa and u were left out and ostracized for not doing it. in the next decade it is shaping up to total surveillance and we're installing the panopticon ourselves. Props to whoever posted this upthread http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2013/the_truth_of_fact_the_truth_of_feeling_by_ted_chiang
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Jan 6, 2017 23:03
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fishmech posted:idk man it just sounds a lot like when people swore google glass and clones of it were going to totally catch on and be everywhere by now. instead people didnt actually want them and they died out. alexa/whatever is going to be a $.50 line item to enable on practically any device in the house that runs on a SoC which will be almost everything in the coming years. its inevitable, glass was jumping the gun on a technology that was not ready yet and a bad comparison
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Jan 6, 2017 23:05
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Trabisnikof posted:Props to whoever posted this upthread http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2013/the_truth_of_fact_the_truth_of_feeling_by_ted_chiang oo thanks! I missed this. bookmarked for tomorrow
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Jan 6, 2017 23:05
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fishmech posted:the microphone is already always on in order to try to find valid activation words, so you should always treat it as if it's recording an uploading at any second. because again, it's going to have false positives where it thinks it heard its activation when interpreting random sounds. this looks like dedicated ignorance over your "listening" handwaving and a properly designed system could obviate the specter you're clinging to
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Jan 6, 2017 23:08
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JawnV6 posted:alright if you ever deign to address how the regulation i proposed specifically highlighting the storage/upload state could address these concerns lmk what regulation is going to invent a voice recognition system that manages to have a 0% false positive rate, exactly? i'm pretty sure if you invent that it has much broader uses than making it so you can trust your stupid home voice recognition device for searches doesn't accidentally record your farts as input.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:10
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Powaqoatse posted:alexa what is hyperbole / 
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Jan 6, 2017 23:10
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fishmech posted:0% false positive rate not the issue, irrelevant. address the issue pls
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Jan 6, 2017 23:12
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fishmech posted:what regulation is going to invent a voice recognition system that manages to have a 0% false positive rate, exactly?
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Jan 6, 2017 23:12
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here, lets get this in the mix TV news report prompts viewers' Amazon Echo devices to order unwanted dollhouses http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/01/06/tv-news-report-prompts-viewers-amazon-echo-devices-to-order-unwanted-dollhouses.html
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Jan 6, 2017 23:14
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Powaqoatse posted:not the issue, irrelevant. there is no issue though??? JawnV6 posted:uh, why would it have to? what part of the regulation proposed is contingent on 0% false positive rate? no actual regulation was proposed, but you'd need to have 100% false positive prevention to be sure the device was not recording and transmitting at any given time.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:19
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Powaqoatse posted:okay hows this: JawnV6 posted:regulation could control storage and transmission, christ an active mike doesn't necessitate an AOAC upload. perhaps even require advertising the storage/transmission state auditory or visually
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Jan 6, 2017 23:21
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fishmech posted:no actual regulation was proposed, but you'd need to have 100% false positive prevention to be sure the device was not recording and transmitting at any given time. JawnV6 posted:regulation could control storage and transmission, christ an active mike doesn't necessitate an AOAC upload. perhaps even require advertising the storage/transmission state auditory or visually "inform the user if X happens"  "WHAT IF X HAPPENS... BY ACCIDENT?!?!?! CHEKFMFATE"... you inform the user that X happened
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Jan 6, 2017 23:22
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