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Goober Peas posted:And how exactly do you propose that EMTs and Nurses do this? Relocating to a fresh new shithole of a country.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:36
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Glaziers son?
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Jan 6, 2017 23:58
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Goober Peas posted:And how exactly do you propose that EMTs and Nurses do this? Stop making argument against an increased minimum wage.....? I thought that was implied based on the post I responded to....
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Jan 7, 2017 00:09
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CommieGIR posted:Stop making argument against an increased minimum wage.....? I thought that was implied based on the post I responded to.... Then explain it to them in a way that makes sense, instead of alienating all the people you want to agree with you by being a condescending poo poo lord about everything. Not just you, but the entire 'left' movement. Edit: in other news, the town I grew up has been dry since it started. It's now partially wet, and it's so loving weird having a beer with dinner here or not driving 30 minutes each way to go grab booze. iwentdoodie fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 00:26
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Powershift posted:New roadkill and it is amazing. They're going to have a little Honda and a first-gen RX-7 in the next one (current one if you have MT on demand)!
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Jan 7, 2017 00:38
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iwentdoodie posted:Then explain it to them in a way that makes sense, instead of alienating all the people you want to agree with you by being a condescending poo poo lord about everything. Hey, then put me on ignore. Or gently caress it, since apparently I'm generally only acceptable to a minority of people, I'll just stop posting. Thanks.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:43
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CommieGIR posted:Hey, then put me on ignore. Or gently caress it, since apparently I'm generally only acceptable to a minority of people, I'll just stop posting. Thanks. Don't pull a meltdown. I generally agree with what you're trying to get across, but the way you say things can be super off putting and make people get defensive or angry as gently caress even when they agree or its something that would help them. Also this is just a dumbass dead forum so who gives a gently caress.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:46
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You care way too much about what people think about you on an online comedy forum.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:49
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iwentdoodie posted:Then explain it to them in a way that makes sense, instead of alienating all the people you want to agree with you by being a condescending poo poo lord about everything. I'd like to hear your explanation to a lowest common denominator voter who doesn't actually care that you can't live on minimum (or even within several dollars per hour of) wage, but who think that they're just temporarily inconvenienced and someday will be the rich prick turning the screws on everyone else and want to be able to take advantage of poverty-level wages once they've boot-strapped themselves to the top. Bear in mind that such people tend to view any opinion contrary to their own and any attempt to explain to them why they're wrong as condescending/uppity/elitist/etc.
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Jan 7, 2017 00:52
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American politics in a nutshell. "Hey, it's your obligation to explain to me, the guy making $11 an hour, why solidarity with other working class stiffs is a good idea and I will, without any source or factual evidence, refute your points despite asking you to explain it to me because I don't get that FYGM doesn't apply to $11/hr workers because, me, I'm one of the good ones, not a lazy <group of choice> and will be a millionaire any moment now unlike those bums" <explains it> "Yeah, well, the other guy never questions my fantasies and tells me all the things I want to hear, so I'ma vote for him even though he's repeatedly vowed to ruin all $11/hr workers permanently but that's okay because he's not talking about hardworkers like me and I will soon be rich and then all you condescending knowers of facts will GET YOURS"
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Jan 7, 2017 00:54
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Mostly 'cause you motherfuckers say poo poo like that. I've been on both sides of this debate, and I'll be damned if I don't find you two's style of arguing/writing condescending and obnoxious even though I tend to agree with your point. Seriously, the tone does not help. Don't stop posting... don't stop arguing your side... but not being condescending and/or throwing around mean names and generalizations goes a long way, even if it does feel rather cathartic. I ended up changing my mind over the last 3-4 years not because anyone convinced me (if anything, the arguments I was in and read pushed me more toward my existing point of view) but because I read more and more analytical articles with data that proved my viewpoint wrong without calling me names. e: this probably applies to me too. Do as I say, not as I do 
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Jan 7, 2017 00:57
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kastein posted:Mostly 'cause you motherfuckers say poo poo like that. This is exactly it. It's not the overall message, it's the way you loving deliver it. Like, it IS possible to speak to people of a different viewpoint or perhaps even lower intelligence (they generally aren't, just different from you) and not be a prick. The left, as a whole, treats people with differing views the same way that they accuse the right of treating minorities or any other group they choose for that day. I'm left leaning as gently caress, in the military, and from rural as poo poo east texas. I know it's hard but goddamn.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:04
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kastein posted:Seriously, the tone does not help. My point is there is no way to explain anything to these people if it doesn't come from Fox News or a similar right-leaning media source. Be as nice as you want, if you don't march in lockstep with their views you're just an rear end in a top hat trying to force your views on everyone else. Again - how would you explain to someone like this why poverty wages drag everyone down without coming off as "condescending"?
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Jan 7, 2017 01:04
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Geoj posted:I'd like to hear your explanation to a lowest common denominator voter who doesn't actually care that you can't live on minimum (or even within several dollars per hour of) wage, but who think that they're just temporarily inconvenienced and someday will be the rich prick turning the screws on everyone else and want to be able to take advantage of poverty-level wages once they've boot-strapped themselves to the top. To be fair the issue precisely is that the left usually does act condescending/uppity/elitist/etc towards those people which is why the right has to do virtually nothing to pander to them.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:05
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Could it be that the lack of vocal tone in being typed versus discussed vocal is what implies the 'being a prick' and not that I was ACTUALLY trying to be a prick? Or do you think I honestly talk to people like an arrogant prick all day. I'm not really condescending. This is the third or fourth time I've been accused of being condescending, when I'm not trying to be nor trying to word it that way. I think the only reason people take it away like that is the lack of vocal intonation. cursedshitbox posted:You care way too much about what people think about you on an online comedy forum. I don't really care, its just tiring to go through a general chat thread with "Man, I have you on ignore for a reason/Man you are condescending" and it gets a little old. If there was a better car forum, I'd be there already. I get I can be a broken record and discuss rather annoying topics, but I'm just trying to join the conversation. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 01:05
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1500quidporsche posted:To be fair the issue precisely is that the left usually does act condescending/uppity/elitist/etc towards those people which is why the right has to do virtually nothing to pander to them. Still waiting - present your non-condescending case to the guy who works for $8/hour at the local sawmill and thinks that's a perfectly acceptable wage because he also believes that through nothing but hard work he will someday be in charge and in a position to benefit from our horribly lopsided in favor of the employer labor laws.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:15
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Geoj posted:Still waiting - present your non-condescending case to the guy who works for $8/hour at the local sawmill and thinks that's a perfectly acceptable wage because he also believes that through nothing but hard work he will someday be in charge and in a position to benefit from our horribly lopsided in favor of the employer labor laws. Just go to your local bar and look at all the hard working men and women who dont have two bucks for another beer. Then go on Instagram and there's all these sons and daughters of your bosses who do nothing and yet splash dat cash.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:25
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Geoj posted:Still waiting - present your non-condescending case to the guy who works for $8/hour at the local sawmill and thinks that's a perfectly acceptable wage because he also believes that through nothing but hard work he will someday be in charge and in a position to benefit from our horribly lopsided in favor of the employer labor laws. "Raising the minimum wage is for sawmill workers."
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Jan 7, 2017 01:33
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Geoj posted:Still waiting - present your non-condescending case to the guy who works for $8/hour at the local sawmill and thinks that's a perfectly acceptable wage because he also believes that through nothing but hard work he will someday be in charge and in a position to benefit from our horribly lopsided in favor of the employer labor laws. I'm not saying it isn't hard. The left has spent the past 8 years (more, really) trying their best to include every fringe group possible while shutting out that entire demographic of working class, primarily straight white voters. It's a huge issue and ignoring it or blaming them for being ignorant doesn't help.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:45
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iwentdoodie posted:This is exactly it. It's not the overall message, it's the way you loving deliver it. So does the right, FWIW. "libertards" is just as much a way to get me to be sarcastic and not listen to your point as anything the left throws. Geoj posted:My point is there is no way to explain anything to these people if it doesn't come from Fox News or a similar right-leaning media source. ... aaaaaand you just lost past-me as a listener/someone who will take you seriously.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:48
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iwentdoodie posted:The left has spent the past 8 years (more, really) trying their best to include every fringe group possible while shutting out that entire demographic of working class, primarily straight white voters. I don't think this is actually true, someone can correct me, but most of the working class, primarily straight white voters shut themselves out by pretending that the GOP was going to provide labor solutions while ignoring any and all evidence that the GOP doesn't intend to support labor and unions, and almost always works against them. I mean, how do you convince a voting bloc that is almost entirely sure that: Immigrants are stealing their jobs, Unions are an evil communist movement, and that cutting taxes for the wealthy will trickle down jobs? How do you present facts and evidence to a voting bloc that has entirely abandoned any willingness to judge by fact and evidence instead of populist ideals? Should we keep trying for them? Sure. Will we get them? Probably not.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:50
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Just go to your local bar and look at all the hard working men and women who dont have two bucks for another beer. Then go on Instagram and there's all these sons and daughters of your bosses who do nothing and yet splash dat cash. But my bosses work hard for their paychecks just like me, and who are you to tell us what we can and cannot spend our money on? angryrobots posted:"Raising the minimum wage is for sawmill workers." My boss said if he had to pay anyone a penny more than they make now the mill would have to shut down. Why do you want me to lose my job? iwentdoodie posted:It's a huge issue and ignoring it or blaming them for being ignorant doesn't help. kastein posted:... aaaaaand you just lost past-me as a listener/someone who will take you seriously. So you're both just ideas guys? You've identified the problem - that telling white working class voters they might be incorrect in their views or that there's another way of doing things makes you come off as condescending - and now its someone else's job to figure out a way to convince them that their opinions are wrong without in any way implying that they might be wrong? Geoj fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 01:59
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iwentdoodie posted:I'm not saying it isn't hard. Explain how the working class straight white man has been shut out for the last 8-more years by the party that supports unions and minimum wages though?. It's not a zero-sum game and helping gay and non-white people doesn't take any money out of the pocket of the straight white man regardless of what Fox News will tell the straight white man about how his hegemony has been eroded by leftist policies that aim to help All Poors, and not just Straight White Poors as It Should Be. This is the message of the left and it is not condescending. However, it's pretty hard to say "You have literally zero idea what you are talking about and your ignorance on the issue and willful determination to never change your point of view is making your life less satisfactory" without sounding condescending, but sometimes after 40 years of the straight white man vote voting literally as determinedly as it possibly can against his own best interests due to being deliberately ill-informed and undereducated on the complexity of politics - as has happened in this country since the Reagan experiment showed the powers that be that populist dipshits win far more votes than legitimate warriors for the working man - the Knowers of Actual Facts get tired of handholding the other lesser-informed members of the voting privilege through every single vote and tend to start saying "Quit being so loving dumb".
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Jan 7, 2017 02:13
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I like cars
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Jan 7, 2017 02:27
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meltie posted:I like cars Eh, cars are alright, but I'm more fond of trucks myself.
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Jan 7, 2017 02:30
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meltie posted:I like cars In a car sub-forum? That's shocking.
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Jan 7, 2017 02:44
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iwentdoodie posted:This is exactly it. It's not the overall message, it's the way you loving deliver it. angryrobots posted:"Raising the minimum wage is for sawmill workers." I was working retail at min wage when obamacare went in. The only thing it got me was an hours cut from ≈30 to a "don't you ever loving go over" hard limit of 25. I was also visiting seattle recently, and ate a lot of fast food. Twice I had touch-screen menus to order from, with no worker to help. The guys who got let go when the min wage went up sure appreciate the higher wage they aren't earning. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 02:50
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ilkhan posted:But its socially acceptable because the right are a bunch of deplorables. </I-wish-that-was-sarcasm-but-your-loving-presidential-candidate-said-that-poo poo> It was a stupid thing to say. But not really feeling as guilty about it the closer we get the 20th and the more his Cabinet picks look like something that would make Goebbels proud. ilkhan posted:I was working retail at min wage when obamacare went in. The only thing it got me was an hours cut from ≈30 to a "don't you ever loving go over" hard limit of 25. Ah, so you have an employer that loves loving you up the rear end to maintain a bottom line to feed the pocket of upper management. Got it. Thanks, Obama. Seriously, why are you blaming Obama and the ACA Act for employers dicking workers because they want to avoid any and all risks of having to provide benefits or get you anywhere near a promotion to keep you at minimum wage. Without minimum wage, you'd be working for way less and they'd still probably be cutting your hours to avoid hitting an arbitrary minimum that would qualify you for advancement or further pay. Your problem is your employer, not the government. For example: Congress is renewing a very old rule where they can lower Federal Employees wages to $1 a day to dick with people that don't agree with them (Climate Scientists, Women's Health/Rights workers, etc.). I'm sure that this is the party with your labor rights in their best interest. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 02:54
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Conversely, the other presidential candidate who ultimately was elected, spent the last 8 years telling an unfounded lie that Barack Obama was a muslim who was not born in the US and wasn't qualified to be president, which is an act that is the sheer definition of "deplorable".
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Jan 7, 2017 02:56
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Ether Frenzy posted:Conversely, the other presidential candidate who ultimately was elected, spent the last 8 years telling an unfounded lie that Barack Obama was a muslim who was not born in the US and wasn't qualified to be president, which is an act that is the sheer definition of "deplorable". Stop being condescending 
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Jan 7, 2017 02:58
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ilkhan posted:But its socially acceptable because the right are a bunch of deplorables. </I-wish-that-was-sarcasm-but-your-loving-presidential-candidate-said-that-poo poo> Yet there's no evidence that people in Seattle have been negatively affected by the increase in minimum wage. Just because you made your order on a terminal doesn't mean that person isn't employed there any more.
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Jan 7, 2017 03:01
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Fermented Tinal posted:Eh, cars are alright, but I'm more fond of trucks myself. What about the minitruck on Roadkill?
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Jan 7, 2017 03:02
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BraveUlysses posted:Yet there's no evidence that people in Seattle have been negatively affected by the increase in minimum wage. And there is multiple first world nations who raised their minimum wages and enacted Universal Healthcare and, shockingly, didn't disappear into a cloud of massive inflation.
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Jan 7, 2017 03:02
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meltie posted:I like cars Hey, me too car buddy! 
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Jan 7, 2017 03:06
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meltie posted:What about the minitruck on Roadkill? I don't watch Roadkill.
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Jan 7, 2017 03:09
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CommieGIR posted:Ah, so you have an employer that loves loving you up the rear end to maintain a bottom line to feed the pocket of upper management. Got it. Thanks, Obama. And no. I left, and got a career that paid a shitload better with real benefits, etc. Because retail/min wage is supposed to be a short term job, not a living wage career. As much as the left throws around "FYGM", their own motto is "gently caress yours, taking mine". Which is just as greedy, and not nearly as honest.
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Jan 7, 2017 03:09
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Yes it sure is greedy to ask corporations to pay taxes. Poor corporations.
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Jan 7, 2017 03:10
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Hey, me too car buddy! Hey! Didn't you used to have something really nice?
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Jan 7, 2017 03:10
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It's plainly obvious that the notion that minimum wage jobs are temporary jobs or not careers isn't remotely true
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Jan 7, 2017 03:11
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Fermented Tinal posted:I don't watch Roadkill. I gave up on it last year when they got bought out and started putting crate motors into everything. Even now they choose to do things cheap-assedly while going "gently caress it, this is roadkill" instead of doing awesome hacks. Still, I watched the latest one with the bagged minitruck in for a laugh.
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Jan 7, 2017 03:12
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