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https://twitter.com/istvan_ujhelyi/status/817428942181322755 re: second/third/nth degrees, it'd be nice to see more european investment into MOOCs to rival what American universities have produced with edX/Coursera and Chinese universities are making available via XuetangX. Unfortunately, I suspect this is one area where the continent's linguistic heterogeneity really works against it.
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Jan 6, 2017 21:13
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Pluskut Tukker posted:The Dutch tax system is quite progressive and we do a lot of redistribution through various kinds of benefits for housing, childcare and health insurance. I'd be for efforts to get more people into work, but I doubt that raising the current minimum wage is going to accomplish that. Any sort of fees system that requires checks creates a new layer of bureaucracy. I'd require an explanation as to why you think the people undertaking a second degree won't yield social benefits. It's like you think it's a hobby industry? You're proposing a policy against something that is pretty drat rare purely because you're not sure how useful it is despite the fact the general principal of education is generally accepted. There's infinitely many things we can improve about the fairness and efficiency of society before we start penny pinching on education.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:52
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LemonDrizzle posted:..and Chinese universities are making available via XuetangX. I heard their students can play a pretty mean round of aim_awp.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:58
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Any sort of fees system that requires checks creates a new layer of bureaucracy. I don't know where you're from but in the Netherlands, the bureaucracy for college applications is already in place. This is at worst one more box to check on the online registration form. And the policy is already in place; the government no longer subsidises the second degree so the universities charge whatever it costs them to educate the student, possibly a bit more. Lord of the Llamas posted:I'd require an explanation as to why you think the people undertaking a second degree won't yield social benefits. Marginal benefits, marginal costs. Are they in balance? Do the marginal benefits to society of subsidising people who already have a master's degree to get another one outweigh the marginal costs of an extra college education? Also, is it fair to subsidise people who have already received an enormously valuable gift? That's my point of concern. The Dutch government clearly thinks that there are benefits to having people retrain in health care and education, since getting a master's in teaching or nursing is not subject to the higher fees. You can even get a subsidy if you do an education master. But that's completely different from a generic subsidy for anyone who wants to do any second master's degree ever. Anyway, I posted a bunch of sources to back up my previous points, it would only be polite if you returned the favour to back up your contention that it would. Lord of the Llamas posted:It's like you think it's a hobby industry? You're proposing a policy against something that is pretty drat rare purely because you're not sure how useful it is despite the fact the general principal of education is generally accepted. Principal =/ principle Lord of the Llamas posted:There's infinitely many things we can improve about the fairness and efficiency of society before we start penny pinching on education. To the contrary, there are probably quite a few things we could improve that are more cost-effective than subsidising people's second master degrees. But this point is basically whataboutery.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:36
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Pluskut Tukker posted:The Dutch government clearly thinks that there are benefits to having people retrain in health care and education, since getting a master's in teaching or nursing is not subject to the higher fees. You can even get a subsidy if you do an education master. But that's completely different from a generic subsidy for anyone who wants to do any second master's degree ever. This bit basically answers my concern from earlier - allowing retraining for things vital for the good of people is something I feel should be assisted and it seems your view is the same.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:39
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Tesseraction posted:This bit basically answers my concern from earlier - allowing retraining for things vital for the good of people is something I feel should be assisted and it seems your view is the same. It absolutely is.
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Jan 6, 2017 23:45
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http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/world/europe/mario-soares-dead-portugal.html?smid=tw-share The father of the moderm portuguese democracy, and the single biggest person responsible for its flaws and its successes, died today. He will be missed, probably. I dunno. Democracy is bad.
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Jan 7, 2017 19:50
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The US right now quite needs a Mário Soares, he prevented the country from going into either extreme right or left rather well, it is a shame such people are rare.
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Jan 7, 2017 20:15
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The last three Democratic presidents of the US, 20 years of leadership, have been people calling for moderate unity; it doesn't seem to have had many lasting effects.
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Jan 7, 2017 20:37
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Who the hell is voting Valls??? prime ministership is a hell of a drug im not even shocked or angry, im just laughing, what happened to me
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Jan 7, 2017 20:43
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Pluskut Tukker posted:I don't know where you're from but in the Netherlands, the bureaucracy for college applications is already in place. This is at worst one more box to check on the online registration form. And the policy is already in place; the government no longer subsidises the second degree so the universities charge whatever it costs them to educate the student, possibly a bit more. The state should subsidise people who actually do lifelong learning irl (instead of just muttering it as a buzzword when asked whether longtime employees receive further training). This is not a means to make society richer, it is a goal in and of itself.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:20
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/817878310717915137
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Jan 8, 2017 01:40
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KoldPT posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/world/europe/mario-soares-dead-portugal.html?smid=tw-share Rip you beautiful bastard you fought the fascists and then turned into a corrupt rear end in a top hat,then tried running for president again in your 80's then died.he will be remembered by his democratic legacy instead of his children who are a blight upon this earth.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:07
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blowfish posted:The state should subsidise people who actually do lifelong learning irl (instead of just muttering it as a buzzword when asked whether longtime employees receive further training). This is not a means to make society richer, it is a goal in and of itself. Indeed it should, and it does, through for example tax deducation for employers and individuals, training vouchers for the unemployed, and of course all the education from primary to tertiary level it already pays for. You can go to college and get a degree in anything you like, regardless of the job market prospects. And I am fully on board with that; our lives would be much poorer without artists, historians, philosophers and the like. And fortunately, the state also subsidises other institutions that provide learning experiences: musea, theaters, the opera, nature parks and the like. We should be subsidising these far more than we do. The questions to me though are how much the state, which is all of us from shop clerk and factory floor worker to nurse to CEO, should subsidise further learning, who benefits from that, how we as the state are going to finance that, what the distributional effects are, whether it may in fact not also inadvertently contribute to more inequality, and whether there's also an individual responsibility to contribute and to what extent. You can make blanket statements saying that "The state should subsidise people who actually do lifelong learning" because, I guess, the general principle of education is generally accepted. But at some point you have to translate this principle into practical reality and ask whether this wondeful principle of lifelong learning, in the absence of a communist utopia, really should extend to full public financing of people's second master degrees. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 09:23
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Jesus christ.
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Jan 8, 2017 09:43
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MiddleOne posted:Jesus christ. I like how the little Dutch piglet is making his own way raising itself by the bootstraps. edit; wait is that supposed to be the Hungarian flag? Because then someone (possibly me) is colourblind.
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Jan 8, 2017 10:37
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Not only that, but the third piglet from the left seems to have the belgian flag with the colours in the wrong order. In what way is Belgium sucking money from Germany? Edit:  So, Hungary get much more from the EU than they pay in. They're suckling on Germany's teat at an even greater rate than those other piglets. Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 10:47
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Namarrgon posted:edit; wait is that supposed to be the Hungarian flag? Because then someone (possibly me) is colourblind.
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Jan 8, 2017 10:50
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[quote="Kopijeger" post=""4680973"]In what way is Belgium sucking money from Germany? [/quote] Does being a tax oasis count?
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Jan 8, 2017 11:23
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Randler posted:Does being a tax oasis count? No idea. It might be like the case of Luxembourg, where the funding for the various institutions located in Brussel distorts the overall picture.
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Jan 8, 2017 11:28
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Kopijeger posted:No idea. It might be like the case of Luxembourg, where the funding for the various institutions located in Brussel distorts the overall picture. 
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Jan 8, 2017 11:49
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blowfish posted:The state should subsidise people who actually do lifelong learning irl (instead of just muttering it as a buzzword when asked whether longtime employees receive further training). This is not a means to make society richer, it is a goal in and of itself. The state does this already and they are called scientists.
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Jan 8, 2017 12:26
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I don't think it's due to the presence of EU institutions that Belgium is not a net contributor. It would be bizarre if they counted the upkeep of their own administration as aid. In reality, it's most likely because there are extreme regional differences within Belgium. This mostly gets evened out when looking at the statistics at the national level, but the EU uses NUTS-2 regions to determine which areas are eligible for aid. Wallonia (specifically Hainaut, which has been hit hard by the decline of its traditional industry) is regularly targeted by the EU's convergence measures.  e: looking at the previous map again, I guess the presence of EU institutions actually does play a role there. I am curious as to the methodology and how much it skews the results. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 12:34
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"UK Prime Minister Theresa May says she will lay out plan for Brexit 'in coming weeks'"
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Jan 8, 2017 12:49
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Kopijeger posted:Not only that, but the third piglet from the left seems to have the belgian flag with the colours in the wrong order. In what way is Belgium sucking money from Germany? The real scandal here is Luxembourg. WTF are they even getting money for?
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Jan 8, 2017 12:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Pretty sure it's Hungarian. Not sure whether the third pig is Belgium, or Romania with a very dark blue. I mean, it's Hungary, so the latter seems like it would make the most sense, and it's not like they even colored it in right in either case. If it's Hungary that loving pig should be sucking pretty drat hard on that tit
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Jan 8, 2017 12:56
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throw to first drat IT posted:"UK Prime Minister Theresa May says she will lay out plan for Brexit 'in coming weeks'" Theresa May, after a night of binge drinking: "Is it January already???"
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Jan 8, 2017 12:59
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Whenever I read the euro thread I am always reminded to go check Mark Blyths twitter account: https://twitter.com/MkBlyth/status/816087933665021952
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Jan 8, 2017 13:12
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/istvan_ujhelyi/status/817428942181322755 Judging from the hat, that's a male pig.
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Jan 8, 2017 13:52
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steinrokkan posted:Judging from the hat, that's a male pig. Also, https://twitter.com/RefugeesChief/status/817340713159499777
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Jan 8, 2017 14:18
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That image is clear evidence for the "Muslim Creep Hypothesis". You can even see the desert spilling out in the top right part of the image, as the refugees expand outside the camp. Best we let them stay in Greece, lest all of Europe become a desert.
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Jan 8, 2017 14:46
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Cat Mattress posted:The real scandal here is Luxembourg. WTF are they even getting money for? It says right on the map. It's because they're home to a whole bunch of EU institutions. I'm not sure why operating the ECJ counts as a hand out to Luxembourgers for purposes of the map but there you go.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:03
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Baron Corbyn posted:It says right on the map. It's because they're home to a whole bunch of EU institutions. I'm not sure why operating the ECJ counts as a hand out to Luxembourgers for purposes of the map but there you go.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:37
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Baron Corbyn posted:It says right on the map. It's because they're home to a whole bunch of EU institutions. I'm not sure why operating the ECJ counts as a hand out to Luxembourgers for purposes of the map but there you go.
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Jan 8, 2017 17:20
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LemonDrizzle posted:Their employees will be paying tax to the host country We're talking about Luxembourg, the European champion of tax fraud, though.
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Jan 8, 2017 18:16
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Cat Mattress posted:We're talking about Luxembourg, the European champion of tax fraud, though.
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Jan 8, 2017 18:18
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Article 13 of the Protocol on Privileges and Immunities exempts EU salaries from being taxed in Belgium, if I am reading it correctly. Also real state and services around the organization become really, really expensive, crowding out many locals. It only ever benefits landowners and rentiers, in my opinion. It is not limited to international organizations, the Citi of London has exactly the same thing going on. I would see it as gentrification in overdrive. Anecdotal, of course, but many, many a native Bruxelian has complained to me about the EU institutions destroying what was the artists' quarter. edit: I was answering LemonDrizzle's post. Dawncloack fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 18:47
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Namarrgon posted:I had rewritten a response about benefits to society and how we are all in this together combined with the fact that a professor pays more in taxes than 15 minimum wage employees but in the end did not post because sometimes it just feels like swimming upstream in a river trying to convince people the bootstraps aren't real. (and to all the education posts) Even with regards to first degrees, the argument that "education has positive externalities" and "educated people pay a lot of taxes" are terrible arguments for subsidizing education and you should all take a free online course in economics. Firstly, "educated people earn more and pay more taxes" - ok, so people who get educated earn more. So why should the government subsidize this? If it makes private sense to get an education, why should there be a subsidy? Why should people who don't benefit from this education pay for part of it when the person would rationally get it anyway? Secondly, "education has positive externalities" - sure it does (though their magnitude can be debated). That doesn't mean that it is an underprovided good that should be subsidised. We subsidize public transport because it would be underprovided by the private market. Education is quite well provided (we should subsidize research, which IS underprovided). And people tend to consume education even when the costs are shifted to them, see for instance America and Britain. Education is an investment, just like many others made by companies and individuals. We generally do not subsidize those (despite externalities) because people will make them anyway. I don't expect a subsidy for renovating my house (even though my neighbors benefit) because the private benefit is enough to induce me to do it myself. That's just theory. Then you have the empirical fact that for many individuals who receive education, the net benefit (including foregone wages) is negative EVEN under a subsidized system, let alone what it would be if the true cost was factored in.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:17
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Dawncloack posted:Article 13 of the Protocol on Privileges and Immunities exempts EU salaries from being taxed in Belgium, if I am reading it correctly. Also real state and services around the organization become really, really expensive, crowding out many locals. It only ever benefits landowners and rentiers, in my opinion.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:22
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Five Star Movement is apparently going to vote in totally honest referendum about whatever the party should switch from EU Bad to EU Good. So I guess we won't be seeing Italexit or whatever.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:32
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