|
veni veni veni posted:As much as you want me to be. I am not offended, sorry. What I personally think is funny is someone somehow believing the bolded wrt racism post Colin Kaepernick.
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 13:25 |
|
|
veni veni veni posted:personally I really disagree that tone doesn't matter in the context of a conversation. Someone isn't going to get the same results with screaming and ranting than they are by trying to engage someone. Not that I'm referring to you there. I appreciate your reasoned responses. here's an observation you should make: the combative, "angry" posts crop up only in contexts where people are actively denying that some racist poo poo is, in fact, racist. because there's no debate needed there. we don't need to put our loving heads together in an imitation of Habermasian free discourse to come to the conclusion that, gasp, racism is real. there's no discussion to be had there. and if there's no discussion, there's no need to tone police it. an understanding of what racism is and why it matters is the necessary premise for us here to talk at all, if that's missing you're going to get yelled out of the thread, and that's exactly how it should be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
Gringostar posted:Blue lives matter on the other hand is the racist white people response of "up yours friend of the family" I moved to a suburb outside of Philly a few months ago, right before the election actually, and noticed a surprising number of "WE SUPPORT THE [TOWN NAME] POLICE DEPARTMENT" yard signs all over the place (most of which are still in place). I took this to be a very slightly less blatant variation of the above sentiment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
It's odd that all it took for this to kick off is a few people, including myself, asserting that white people and men are responsible for constructing the power structures of patriarchy and racism.Like, this is not a contentious issue folks, if it is to you, you need to open your eyes. If it hurts your sensibilities as one of the privileged, you should examine why that is because it's up to you to put some effort into dismantling these problems if you truly think they're bad things. If this creates tension, that's sort of the intent. Tension is necessary for people to engage, comfortable discussion and protest can be ignored.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Yes white people consolidated all the power in the US over the centuries, but now shouldn't it be the responsibility of the powerless to fix that? Hopefully without any sort of protesting that inconveniences me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:I moved to a suburb outside of Philly a few months ago, right before the election actually, and noticed a surprising number of "WE SUPPORT THE [TOWN NAME] POLICE DEPARTMENT" yard signs all over the place (most of which are still in place). I took this to be a very slightly less blatant variation of the above sentiment. Why, it's almost like most white suburbanites are racist as gently caress and the ones that aren't give them a pass which is the loving problem.  (p.s. I hope I'm not misusing that gif)
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Gringostar posted:Why, it's almost like most white suburbanites are racist as gently caress and the ones that aren't give them a pass which is the loving problem. I've never actually watched The Wire, I just use that gif whenever someone says something that stuns me, both in a "wow I didn't know THAT poo poo" or a "I can't believe this dumbass believes that dumbass poo poo they just said" way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
negromancer posted:I've never actually watched The Wire, I just use that gif whenever someone says something that stuns me, both in a "wow I didn't know THAT poo poo" or a "I can't believe this dumbass believes that dumbass poo poo they just said" way. The context is he found out he shot a cop so the "oh gently caress" and disbelief use is close enough
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
negromancer posted:I've never actually watched The Wire, I just use that gif whenever someone says something that stuns me, both in a "wow I didn't know THAT poo poo" or a "I can't believe this dumbass believes that dumbass poo poo they just said" way. I FINALLY watched the first season. Its alright. But good God its trapped in the world of black people as written by white people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:43
|
|
|
BRJohnson posted:What I read from posts like the one quoted both above and in my post is that you/I am part of the problem for being a white man (I am actually a white man IRL full disclosure). Maybe it's just an unfortunate series of posts that give it this feeling? I wish I could take my personal experiences and the words "I" and "me" out of my statements so as not to be seen as having some sort of a tantrum, but I don't know how to articulate my point any other way. Ultimately this isn't about me anyway, because I'm going to keep doing my thing out there whether or not I feel I've been slighted by people on the internet (I don't, I've only failed to put it into words correctly). Which brings me to my point I guess. So this is a good example of something I've noticed re: sexism lately and I have a feeling there's already a term for it and I just don't know it yet. The privileged person who has taken some time to look at how they have supported a system that hurts others, realized that's a bad thing, and "stopped." And since they have stopped being racist/sexist/whatever, that means they don't have to listen to any oppressed people anymore. They've got it taken care of. Thanks for doing all the hard work of making me see my privilege, now let me tell you how you should do this hard work in the future. Also, I have seen ALL of my privilege and no longer need to do any self-examination, thank you. If I post tone arguments, it's because those tone arguments are true and justified and not because something I read tripped up one of my inherent biases that I haven't fully confronted yet. There's a dude like this at my work who says sexist poo poo and  all the loving time and when I call him on it he's like, "Did you just accuse ME of being a sexist? ME?! Did you forget who you are talking to?!" like motherfucker personally ended sexism and should be worshiped appropriately. It is weird and unsettling and frustrating. I can only imagine that white dudes effortposting in this thread about poo poo that black people have heard for, as Gringostar mentions, literally over half a century, is similarly frustrating.And BRJohnson, white person to white person, I'm not saying I'm better at being "woke" than you or something. Just the opposite - I try to understand and remember that no matter how hard I work to not be a racist jerk, I am going to be a racist jerk sometimes. It won't be intentional, but it's going to happen, and when someone is kind or brave enough to tell me so, I should be ready to take a look at myself and reflect on what I did and why I did it and how to be better. And even when no one tells me so, I should still be taking stock and trying to be better. We are never "done" fighting racism, even in ourselves, just like we're never done learning at anything else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:02
|
|
|
Which is doubly unfortunate, because The Wire's entire premise boils down to the "the entire system itself is hosed. Up." As a fan of the show, I'd be interested in hearing you expand on that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:03
|
|
|
Rangpur posted:Which is doubly unfortunate, because The Wire's entire premise boils down to the "the entire system itself is hosed. Up." As a fan of the show, I'd be interested in hearing you expand on that. Also, it gets much better before crashing in the final season. e: I'm a white male Hawkgirl, I just know that the tone argument is older than gently caress and that someone much smarter and closer to the problem than I'll ever be addressed it way loving better than I ever could before being killed for daring to inconvenience white people. Gringostar fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jan 7, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
BROCK LESBIAN posted:Yes white people consolidated all the power in the US over the centuries, but now shouldn't it be the responsibility of the powerless to fix that? Hopefully without any sort of protesting that inconveniences me. It sure as poo poo isn't usual for the ones with power to have a change of mind about their privileged position so yeah.. Also your argument comes real close to the one proposed by the 'white man's burden' one, no?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
Fados posted:It sure as poo poo isn't usual for the ones with power to have a change of mind about their privileged position so yeah.. Also your argument comes real close to the one proposed by the 'white man's burden' one, no? lmao "clean up your room" - "white man's burden, mom, urgh"
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
veni veni veni posted:As much as you want me to be. I am not offended, sorry. Tone doesn't matter in the context of a discussion, because it presupposes that this person will see the light if you just say the magical incantation in the right manner. The problem is that we have engaged people, people just ignore it. There are numerous anti-racism books since the the beginning of the 20th century. There is tons of information out there. On another note, I find it funny that people love to come in and say that people are anti-racisming improperly. There have been multiple venues of protest as Negromancer laid out with Colin Kaepernick. Guess what? People got hilariously mad about him silently protesting too. Fados posted:It sure as poo poo isn't usual for the ones with power to have a change of mind about their privileged position so yeah.. Also your argument comes real close to the one proposed by the 'white man's burden' one, no? You might want to relook at what the White Man's Burden actually was. But I see your point. It IS the white man's burden to civilize themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
I'm too dumb to understand your replies, could you clarify? What I'm saying is that people with power (even dwindling power like, let's say, the white middle class) adopting a FYGM attitude in relation to those less privileged is really nothing to be surprised at. This should be the most basic insight of leftists, that all history is the history of class struggle etc. From this perspective you'd be crazy to say that the solution is to ask for more empathy and sympathy towards the Other: that might work on a few 'beautiful souls' but the 'banality of evil' is realy the baseline you're working at in the political level. Browbeating, veiled shaming and super-egoic injuctions are even worse tactics and will definitely work in your disservice, if you're fighting for a progessive cause (cause they obviously work pretty good for conservative, pro-classist politics). The only political solution to gather class allies to your cause is to show how your problems have at the root the same societal antagonism as the Other's problems. Sorry to use to same old tired example but MLK appeal wasn't definitely just for racial equality but also for social economic equality for everyone. In a strange way he was both saying that Black AND All lives matter translating into current times. Malcom X would laugh in your face if you told him the problem with racism was a lack of empathy from white people. So yeah, it seems to me, the comment I was quoting was taking a funny jab at the condescending, uncaring attitude of the privileged. That's fine and all, but that's pretty much the basic fact of politics, people care about themselves and those close to them, the hard part is uniting people for a common cause, not to drive them apart, that's the easiest thing in the world to do in times of crisis.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:
I know you aren't talking about me (esp. Since I don't post in here often, let alone on charged topics), but I feel like theres a need to differentiate "this makes you look scary to me, effete white liberal" and "this tactic just doesn't work". "Dont be violent or angry because that scares whites" is stupid and has roots in racist views of tge civil rights movement, but "trying to draw lines between minorities and the majority during the election was a good way to lose the election" is just admission of flaws.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:Goons can't seem to apply the same rancor they have against underage anime waifus for actual racism and sexism on the boards. Which makes me question the sincerity they have for the former. The cynic in me feels like taking an 'anti pedophile' stance on SA is popular not because its a decent attitude to have about the subject but because it's a safe opinion to have right now. Speaking out about racists and sexists, to the average white cis poster, risks being on the wrong side of the argument since the board culture isn't as strongly against racism and sexism. Even SA isn't free from this, read the anime chat thread in ADTRW sometime if you wanna barf
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:08
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I know you aren't talking about me (esp. Since I don't post in here often, let alone on charged topics), but I feel like theres a need to differentiate "this makes you look scary to me, effete white liberal" and "this tactic just doesn't work". Black people weren't running for President, though. So why is it black folks problems y'alls racist rear end uncles and meemaws and pawpaws voted for Donald Trump?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I know you aren't talking about me (esp. Since I don't post in here often, let alone on charged topics), but I feel like theres a need to differentiate "this makes you look scary to me, effete white liberal" and "this tactic just doesn't work". I'm trying really loving hard to not read this as "minorities need to shut up about racism ingrained in the system during an election because it makes white people angry", but it's really coming off as "minorities need to shut the gently caress up about racism ingrained in the system during an election because it makes white people angry" which is really loving bad for a host of reasons that were already brought up in april of 63... so maybe try this one again?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
Hawkgirl posted:
This horrifies me since I know you are a teacher
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:14
|
|
|
Booourns posted:Even SA isn't free from this, read the anime chat thread in ADTRW sometime if you wanna barf What anime chat thread have you been reading Because ADTRW is pretty strongly against pedoshit too Also, seems like a good time to repost this video: https://youtu.be/ZPDpcYEdiOg The "how dare you" guy is basically Hawkgirl's coworker Tarezax fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 7, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:19
|
|
|
So here is the thing that originally set me off (along with its timing in a series of similar posts and a few "White men are responsible and white men need to fix this")HotCanadianChick posted:If you're not expending real effort* towards fighting the problems of racism (including the passive kind) and white privilege, then you are part of the problem. So this wasn't the right place to make my tone argument perhaps, but tone does matter out there in America when you're trying to change people and the future. The mechanisms of prejudice and systemic racism are still real and strong, and to continue to make things better I think requires more MLK than Malcom X. Or rather, more Xavier than Magneto. If you wanna go all brotherhood in this thread that's great (though I'd love to know the actual demographics numbers here). And I'm not being sarcastic. Also I envy rather than fear your uncanny negro powers. *Basically the stuff I've taken issue with is true, but not constructive in gaining allies. When people want to accept the truth about these things and look at themselves they will find stuff like this thread and accept these truths, but I don't think you'll get them there with a cold "you're actually racist and the problem" especially if they themselves are poor. But again this thread isn't for them so my bad **Also All Lives Matter is obviously bullshit and that's another thing I struggle to explain to folks (the "All Houses Matter" cartoon helps a lot though!) ***SAY APRIL '63 AGAIN!!! ****I love gay people and I'm totally in support of whatever freaky stuff they are doing I should have expected I would score a new av/title here
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
BRJohnson posted:The mechanisms of prejudice and systemic racism are still real and strong, and to continue to make things better I think requires more MLK than Malcom X. Or rather, more Xavier than Magneto. I've read somewhere this theory that those two were so successful cause they unwittingly (or maybe not) ended up playing a good cop/bad cop routine that fed of each others nicely. But yeah I agree with the overall tone (heh) of your post, although obviously harping on tone in a vacuum or in abstract will always seem like a conservative motif.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:33
|
|
|
All that Malcolm X was promoting was that if you are attacked, then you have the right to defend yourself and that we needed to achieve equality by any means necessary. Also, Magneto promoted that Mutants were superior. I also hate X-men analogies because hell yeah I would love me some super mutant powers. We don't even get that and we are still discriminated against. The overall point is this, if people want to be allies, then they will be allies. None of this wishy washy bullshit that will probably erode the moment things go south. Neurolimal posted:I know you aren't talking about me (esp. Since I don't post in here often, let alone on charged topics), but I feel like theres a need to differentiate "this makes you look scary to me, effete white liberal" and "this tactic just doesn't work". This reads to me alot like Identity politics and how people shouldn't promote them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
Have you actually read the letter from Birmingham Jail? Because it clearly states how nonviolent protest works and where we currently are in the fight against injustice. We have the facts, there is injustice, to deny that is to deny any chance of being an ally with serious reexamination of ones beliefs .We have tried negotiation, and been told to wait. All that's left is to directly address the injustice, to create tension that causes people who wouldn't to confront the problem. Is these silly message boards it makes sense that people do not mince words, on other subjects they don't so why should they on racism. Tone arguments are about delay, they always have been, "they'll come around" is the cry. They don't if you don't force them to get off the fence. Tarezax posted:What anime chat thread have you been reading About the whole anti-pedo thing, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some component of the SA culture that considers that stance part of the moral moat between SA and Reddit. There's always been this elitist undercurrent to SA, "we're better than Reddit posters", and given the attention Reddit received regarding its harbouring of pedophilia, it's not unsurprising that SA would seek to distance itself from their behaviour. E: I guess what I'm saying is, if a domestic terrorism white supremacy cell was operating in Reddit and got busted for it, it might do wonders for the boards stance on racism.  Still comes back to laws, laws largely written and passed by white men. They are the target, because they are the ones who must fix it Maluco Marinero fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 7, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:42
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/smoothkobra/status/817749580519501824 Sorry if this was posted already. Meanwhile Apples billions in cash on hand is impressive and cool.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/smoothkobra/status/817749580519501824 This should surprise no one.  Also, this gives me a chance to post my favorite Wolf Blitzer is a loving racist clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sfo32rlkiE
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/smoothkobra/status/817749580519501824 http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/26/apples-cash-hoard-shrinks-for-the-first-time-in-seven-quarters.html http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cash-hoard.asp http://fortune.com/2016/07/13/wealthy-cash-investors/ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/business/dealbook/as-europe-and-asia-hoard-cash-economists-see-echoes-of-crisis.html?_r=0 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-cash-hoarders-1457049503 'Hoarding cash' is a well established financial term of art, not a racial pejorative. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 00:14
|
|
|
I don't even think the one poster is wrong that there are people who may otherwise listen who are scared off when (Black) people get angry about racism, but the people posting here have been fairly courteous to those asking for discussion or information. Even when the answer is "go Google it yourself tbh" But people are tired, and being emotional has its own merits. The posters here have made many reexamine their own thoughts, even if (and maybe specifically because of) they have sometimes been justifiably angry. This thread and the misogynoir thread exist specifically because lily white posters couldn't handle black posters being angry and confrontational about racism. For some it is about education but it is also the only place on the forum where discussion is allowed regardless of tone. To come into that segregated (word intentionally chosen) area and say "no you gotta post like thiiiiis" is pretty hosed up!
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
BRJohnson posted:It's just as I read this I couldn't help but imagine all the discussions I've had where I've nudged people bit by bit towards being more tolerant and more empathetic to the plight of others, because most folks are more dumb than they are evil. If someone's dumbness results in evil being done, then they are evil. Evil and dumb are not mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible to be and do both. And you have the privilege to write off their racism as being dumb. A lot of us do not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
One can draw a distinction between active harm and passive harm, but the focus should be on stopping all harm as opposed to tutting at the latter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
In other news, Lee Daniels cast a white woman as the star of his new show because he wants white people to feel better about themselves. Of course black twitter already went ham on him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:In other news, Lee Daniels cast a white woman as the star of his new show because he wants white people to feel better about themselves. Of course black twitter already went ham on him. Lee Daniels been on some Ben Carson poo poo, and somehow can't make a movie that isn't magical black person full of wisdom helping goofy rear end white people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:45
|
|
|
Death Bot posted:This thread and the misogynoir thread exist specifically because lily white posters couldn't handle black posters being angry and confrontational about racism. For some it is about education but it is also the only place on the forum where discussion is allowed regardless of tone. To come into that segregated (word intentionally chosen) area and say "no you gotta post like thiiiiis" is pretty hosed up! Oh, no, you misunderstand. This is the special thread where black people are protected and coddled by moderators so that they're safe from the devastating burns and owns they deserve for not affecting self-loathing and ironic detachment. "This is why Trump won", he added (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Oh, no, you misunderstand. This is the special thread where black people are protected and coddled by moderators so that they're safe from the devastating burns and owns they deserve for not affecting self-loathing and ironic detachment. "This is why Trump won", he added Trump actually won because white people are overwhelmingly racist, hth.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:50
|
|
|
itym white people are overwhelmingly common sense
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:52
|
|
|
I cannot believe there are two entire threads where I, a white man, isn't honored for posting there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:53
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:itym white people are overwhelmingly common sense Nope, I mean this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlJdPOkMa9k
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 13:25 |
|
|
hackbunny posted:itym white people are overwhelmingly common sense just sliding on in to say nothing of value and be poo poo. Did someone put up a giant burning cross in the sky to signal these assholes like Batman?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 01:57
|
|