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Spelling Mitsake
Oct 4, 2007

Clutch Cargo wishes they had Tractor.
I can't believe how bad I'm getting at this game. I did all the keeper bullshit and got 1001% this time last year. Now I can barely make it to the womb. I don't even think it's AB+, I just can't dodge shots anymore.

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Orange Harrison
Feb 24, 2010

All through the day, I me mine

Dias posted:

Oh, regarding insta-attacks, please give The Bloat a fuckin' startup on his stupid beams. You don't even have to fix both, just make that stupid fight less painful.

i hate the bloat still i'll take all the vis sisters over that dick

When I roll around in my head whether or not AB+ is an honest update or a half-baked paywall for mod tools that doesn't give a poo poo about the state of the game, I just remind myself that it didn't even try to address anything like his ability to insta-hit you when you meet him outside a boss chamber if you enter the room from anywhere but the top, or Mask of Infamy having no sounds or death animation (and being counted as a land-based enemy who appears to fly to cut corners on animation) or Rage Creeps.

Orange Harrison fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jan 7, 2017

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX
The bloat has a startup on his lasers though, just no visual tell. you can bait it out as with any other laser, or just avoid the zones. what's the problem again?

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Spelling Mitsake posted:

I can't believe how bad I'm getting at this game. I did all the keeper bullshit and got 1001% this time last year. Now I can barely make it to the womb. I don't even think it's AB+, I just can't dodge shots anymore.

I think enemies are shooting more often now, Satan is a good example since his tears fire faster and more often than I remember.

Orange Harrison
Feb 24, 2010

All through the day, I me mine

Zo posted:

The bloat has a startup on his lasers though, just no visual tell. you can bait it out as with any other laser, or just avoid the zones. what's the problem again?

I'm talking about rooms that aren't boss chambers, where he spawns active and you have to know he's already there or have TAS reflexes and be holding the right walk direction as you transition or he insta's you.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Zo posted:

The bloat has a startup on his lasers though, just no visual tell. you can bait it out as with any other laser, or just avoid the zones. what's the problem again?

More of a startup then, especially because it seems to put out a hitbox before the laser's even out. Makes it a pain to reliably bait out that poo poo with slower characters. You could ~~just avoid the zone~~ but that still makes it a lovely-rear end unfun boss that can potentially trap you in guaranteed damage.

gently caress The Bloat and whoever is fine with The Bloat.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX

Orange Harrison posted:

I'm talking about rooms that aren't boss chambers, where he spawns active and you have to know he's already there or have TAS reflexes and be holding the right walk direction as you transition or he insta's you.

oh yea that's definitely pretty annoying, especially in large rooms where you can't even see him. i'm not sure what would be a good fix there though, without affecting the regular boss battle.

Dias posted:

More of a startup then, especially because it seems to put out a hitbox before the laser's even out. Makes it a pain to reliably bait out that poo poo with slower characters. You could ~~just avoid the zone~~ but that still makes it a lovely-rear end unfun boss that can potentially trap you in guaranteed damage.

gently caress The Bloat and whoever is fine with The Bloat.

yea, you though, you're just bad :(

Orange Harrison
Feb 24, 2010

All through the day, I me mine

Zo posted:

oh yea that's definitely pretty annoying, especially in large rooms where you can't even see him. i'm not sure what would be a good fix there though, without affecting the regular boss battle.
It's probably just another oversight that he spawns active in regular rooms, even though other bosses still play their intros if they have them. That's why I pointed out the barely-finished state of Mask of Infamy.

I'm just really bitter because this came true for me:

Orange Harrison posted:

There are only three games I (used to) play all the time: Team Fortress 2, Rock Band, and Isaac. Both TF2 and Rock Band got abominable fanbase-polarizing expansions/sequels in 2016, and I really don't need Isaac making it 3/3 of my favorite games dying.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Zo posted:

yea, you though, you're just bad :(

I mean, do you legit think it's a fun fight? Can you say the peeper patterns plus room layout plus bullet spread doesn't gently caress you over every now and then? I know you're a pro unlike myself, but I'm most of the playerbase, mate.

Also I'll never stop fighting this endless crusade against that stupid boss, even if I can now consider myself Good At The Bloat anyway.

Dias fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jan 7, 2017

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012

Dias posted:

I mean, do you legit think it's a fun fight? Can you say the peeper patterns plus room layout plus bullet spread doesn't gently caress you over every now and then? I know you're a pro unlike myself, but I'm most of the playerbase, mate.

Also I'll never stop fighting this endless crusade against that stupid boss, even if I can now consider myself Good At The Bloat anyway.

April's Fool must be your own personal hell.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Spergatory posted:

April's Fool must be your own personal hell.

Hey, at least that mode gave me infinite health to make up for All Bloat All The Time. :colbert:

Also if I ever feel like hurting myself I can just reroll that until hearts aren't coins (I'm still not sure how April's Fools work to be honest), and keep fighting Bloat forever.

edit: but let's not dwell on the fact that whoever defends the Bloat probably kicks puppies and says "it could've just dodged it better", and learn the tell for the new mimic chests, courtesy of Reddit:



I was gonna complain about it until I noticed the gray marks.

Dias fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 7, 2017

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg
You know the Bloat can't do poo poo when he's jumping or while he's doing his shake animation to spew off bullets so just wail on him while he's doing that. He's not a big deal!!

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

g0lbez posted:

You know the Bloat can't do poo poo when he's jumping or while he's doing his shake animation to spew off bullets so just wail on him while he's doing that. He's not a big deal!!

I bet you say the same thing when you're punting a cute tiny babby golden retriever to your friends, you sicko. :colbert:

(I legit think they should at least fix the unreactable startup and early hitbox on that fucker and there's no way you can justify that)

Orange Harrison
Feb 24, 2010

All through the day, I me mine

Dias posted:



I was gonna complain about it until I noticed the gray marks.

:lol: What the gently caress the ambient effects of floors change the shades of things more than this. You could literally make the change "I drew one extra pixel" and it would be easier to spot than this obfuscated shading bullshit.

Martian Manfucker
Dec 27, 2012

misandry is real
don't void the Bible on your apollyon dark room run along with other a bunch of other cool actives you want to use on boss rooms and then forget you voided the Bible until after you fall over dead at the start of the Satan fight

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Orange Harrison posted:

:lol: What the gently caress the ambient effects of floors change the shades of things more than this. You could literally make the change "I drew one extra pixel" and it would be easier to spot than this obfuscated shading bullshit.

The two grey marks around the keyhole are probably the real tells. I'm still gonna run face-first against all chests and bitch that I got damaged but it seems noticeable enough if you stop for a second and think.

Orange Harrison
Feb 24, 2010

All through the day, I me mine
Ahh, didn't see those at first :doh:
Ok AB+ is a slightly less humongous step backward.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

The Bloat is a fairly easy boss once you know how he works.

Beekeeping and You posted:

I feel like sister vis is the new haunt. Does that make sense? Shows up way too early, and is loving bullshit.
That was true before the nerf but I don't see any problem with them now. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with The Haunt either, he has an extremely predictable pattern.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Wow, those gray marks are hard to spot. I couldn't even see them until I tilted my monitor, and I have this thing calibrated pretty well.

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

CJacobs posted:

Wow, those gray marks are hard to spot. I couldn't even see them until I tilted my monitor, and I have this thing calibrated pretty well.
I think you might need to recalibrate it (unless it has really bad viewing angles). To me they look easily missable if you forget to check, but easy to see when you remember. God only knows what curse of darkness will do to it, though.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

CJacobs posted:

Wow, those gray marks are hard to spot. I couldn't even see them until I tilted my monitor, and I have this thing calibrated pretty well.

You should know better about perfectly calibrated monitors, dude. :v:

It's visible if you stop and look, but gamma changes/fog/all that good poo poo might make it a lot harder to spot.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

pumpinglemma posted:

I think you might need to recalibrate it (unless it has really bad viewing angles). To me they look easily missable if you forget to check, but easy to see when you remember. God only knows what curse of darkness will do to it, though.

I think it's mostly because they're on a white background in that screenshot, if you open it in paint or something and turn the background darker it becomes easier to see them.

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Daeren posted:

The Void/Delerium is the new hidden path. Though apparently the gate to the Void is only a random chance to appear after any major boss post-Mom, including Mega-Satan but excluding Hush, who always makes it appear.

I was watching some Northern Lion streams and he keeps getting these boss doors that take 2 keys, 2 bombs, 2 spirit hearts etc. How you do you access those?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Your Gay Uncle posted:

I was watching some Northern Lion streams and he keeps getting these boss doors that take 2 keys, 2 bombs, 2 spirit hearts etc. How you do you access those?

Those from the Antibirth mod, not afterbirth+

ChibiSoma
Apr 13, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
After trying Ultra Hard for an hour and never making it to the Heart, I'm convinced that McMillen doesn't know what 'Hard' means in the context of difficulty. It isn't hard. It's annoying. It's frustrating. It's unfair. But it isn't hard. Ultra Hard is misleading. Ultra Tedious might be a better name for the challenge.

Perhaps Ultra Lots of Restarting? Because that's what you have to do. Restart until floor 1 gives you gold, and then hope you get lucky with everything else. There's little skill involved here, it's almost completely down to luck. If you don't get some kind of damage multiplier and optimally something to either pierce or just shoot multiple tears, you ain't gon' win. Getting the Wafer is a really nice draw, as it neuters the waves of champions' extra damage, but that isn't gonna win the run on its own.

For those who've beaten the challenge, what'd you score on floor 1 that got you a good start? I had one where I got Proptosis and Shielded Tears, but then I got Big Horn + Little Horn (2 Little Horns?) as my second floor 1 boss and I noped myself out of that run.

comingafteryouall
Aug 2, 2011


It's appropriate that the Binding of Isaac thread is filled with so much crying.

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012

Dias posted:

Hey, at least that mode gave me infinite health to make up for All Bloat All The Time. :colbert:

Also if I ever feel like hurting myself I can just reroll that until hearts aren't coins (I'm still not sure how April's Fools work to be honest), and keep fighting Bloat forever.

I think the rule with April's Fool is that pickups can be anything except what they appear to be. So if you pick up a coin, you will get a bomb, a key, or a red/black/spirit/golden heart, but you will never get a coin. It's rolled on pick-up and not before, and since you are always able to pick up coins, they will always provide you with some benefit. In other words, if you have full red hearts and you pick up a coin, it will be anything but a coin or red heart. If you have full red hearts and spirit hearts, it will be anything but coins and those two heart types. Because golden hearts cause so many coins to drop, this eventually leads to a situation where any damage causes you to drop more than enough coins to completely replenish your health and get another golden heart ready, more or less ensuring you can't die unless you use a card and get rerolled into the Suicide King effect by accident.

At least, that's what it seems like to me. :science:

Carecat
Apr 27, 2004

Buglord
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=836993830&searchtext=

Finally.

Tipme
Oct 30, 2009
Hi. I'm a Chelsea fan since 2010. Please murder me with a piece of pipe. thanks.
Just had ultra greed phase 2 bug out on me and it got insta killed, and I got credit for it. I was lillith, no crazy battery shenanigans. I had a host hat and was ready for phase 2, but then it just died, and I got the duality item unlocked.

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
however bad ab plus is, victory laps fucken rock

Darkoni
Dec 28, 2010

You do not look terribly noble and yet I feel troubled, attracted, bewitched.

How do you even initiate a victory lap?

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Kurtofan posted:

however bad ab plus is, victory laps fucken rock

It's basically the best concept ever in a game like this (yes I'm the type who have totally abused Undefined to do the Chest over, and over, and over until the item pools are depleted.)

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Darkoni posted:

How do you even initiate a victory lap?

You have to win first.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


No victory lap for Mega Satan kills.

Also, I'm with Dias on the Bloat hate. Even knowing how it works it's still an exceptionally annoying boss because of how fast it can put out it's attacks, combined with they way brimstone has a hitbox larger then its graphic (which also lingers after its gone.)

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
no victory lap after delirium as well

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

It makes sense since Delirium is Isaac succumbing to oxygen deprivation and dying.

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT
As far as I know the only way to get the victory lap is to beat Lamb. After beating him the game prompts you about it. I really wish you could get it via Chest/Mega Satan as well.

Power of Pecota
Aug 4, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Delerium is a cool fight, although holy poo poo it's going to be awful with The Lost/Keeper.

Oxyclean posted:

No victory lap for Mega Satan kills.

Also, I'm with Dias on the Bloat hate. Even knowing how it works it's still an exceptionally annoying boss because of how fast it can put out it's attacks, combined with they way brimstone has a hitbox larger then its graphic (which also lingers after its gone.)

Bloat sniping me the instant it spawned with a side brimstone from offscreen while I was doing the boss rush with the Lost for the first time pretty much permanently made me anti-bloat.

Dr. Mantis Toboggan
May 5, 2003

Your Computer posted:

People will cry about anything.

Good self awareness.

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CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
http://puu.sh/teHRo/90c987909c.webm

Having fun with modding. My first order of business is to turn Isaac into Isaac Clarke because someone made fan art of that for my Dead Space 3 let's play like 2 years ago now.

The items I have planned are:
- RIG Helmet (in the webm), gives a soul heart at the start of each floor, I might bump it down to a half soul heart if that's too generous
- RIG Suit, changes the player's tears to a triple shot that fires in a straight line
- Contact Beam, basically a reskin of Krampus' Head except it only fires in one direction

edit: I should note that this was an unholy pain in the rear end and if you want to mod this game you are in for some not very fun times, but it was worth it to see the item ingame and functioning properly. I don't know why the pickup is offset by like 2 pixels though.

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