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negromancer posted:In fantastic news, Nicki Minaj is single so my chances to date her are now a non-zero number. i guess it took her a while to realize her boyfriend was murdered by drake 
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Jan 8, 2017 22:39
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Dog Jones posted:For the record I only admit guilt to item 1. referring to FluffDaddy as "Goku" and would like to point out that if I had assumed he was writing a book I wouldn't have asked if he were possibly writing a book! Koalas March posted:4. Refusing to accept what we tell you 
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Jan 8, 2017 22:39
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botany posted:For the record I think the family history stuff is super interesting and I'd love to read more along the same lines, if anybody happens to know and feels like sharing. That was a really good (if depressing) post. This is because you probably have some knowledge of your family heritage, where you came from, who was involved, etc. African-americans do not have this luxury. We have had our original cultural identity erased, and have been forced to make new ones, that where immediately rejected by white people. We have not had access to the records of the sales of our family members until recently. So a black person looking into their ancestry is looked at by a white man as "Why would you do that unless it's for a book? I, a white, know a fair amount of my family and would have no reason to go to great depths unless it was research for something, clearly this is what he is doing"
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Jan 8, 2017 22:43
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I would personally be flattered to be called Goku. He's the strongest anime. Although a white dude refusing to refer to a black dude by the name he wants to be called is probably not the best way to go about things.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:43
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Dog Jones posted:I donno I guess I don't get it because this is exactly what I mean when I said "insubstantial". Like everyone who is listening to that speech already knows all of the poo poo she's saying. Plus none of it jives with what I know about her record. Im going to do you a solid even though you aren't here anymore. But this is poo poo that even Obama didn't say throughout his 8 years of office. Yeah sure, him being black probably narrowed his ability to say it. But the fact of the matter is, that this is poo poo that just isn't said by any politician on the national stage. Period. At all. Bernie Sanders sure as hell didn't say it. Bernie Sanders sure as hell didn't have a speech focused primarily on race. Hell, Bernie Sanders seemed like he tried his damned hardest to not speak to black folk. I hear people asking (sorry couldn't answer sooner, I work graveyard shift) how to combat structural racism, and you do it by doing exactly that, you combat structural racism. None of this mealy mouth bullshit about focusing on economics and hoping that it helps get rid of racism. But the instant you start targeting racism, all of a sudden, all kinds of white folk come out of the woodwork to bitch and complain about why attention isn't being paid to them. Dog Jones posted:
Also, if you are going to ask a question about why black people think her record is better on race, you might want to think about reading the article that explains why a few black people think her record is better on race, where-in the article points out multiple truths on how she understands what black people are going through. Its basically a summation of the Harlem speech, but that is a pro-click right there, and that speech is why I will never regret voting for Hillary Clinton in the primary and the general election and would vote for her again if she ran again.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:45
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BROCK LESBIAN posted:I would personally be flattered to be called Goku. He's the strongest anime. Goku is a monster brawler who is aways looking for a fight, literally a monkey at times, with the intelligence of a child, and an absent father who is always being railed by his wife about not having a job. Basically a black stereotype. I'm mostly joking. I loving love DB. Super is amazing. Vegeta is the best though.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:46
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Koalas March posted:This is because you probably have some knowledge of your family heritage, where you came from, who was involved, etc. That and it makes the lovely assumption that everything black people do is for the consumption of white audiences.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:48
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Koalas March posted:Goku is a monster brawler who is aways looking for a fight, literally a monkey at times, with the intelligence of a child, and an absent father who is always being railed by his wife about not having a job. Basically a black stereotype. Black people love Vegeta and I never really understood why? I know I love Vegeta and every black person I know are Vegeta fans. It seems like it would make an interesting thinkpiece but I can hear the groans from the future.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:49
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Koalas March posted:This is because you probably have some knowledge of your family heritage, where you came from, who was involved, etc. No, I realize that, that's exactly why I'm interested! With all the problems with black genealogy and the records, I'm just really interested in people who actually manage to dig stuff up. I completely understand the impulse though. (Partly because as a German I only recently got anywhere in investigating my own family background with respect to the nazi regime.) edit: negromancer posted:That and it makes the lovely assumption that everything black people do is for the consumption of white audiences. Oh I apologize if I came off that way! That was not the intention at all. botany fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 22:52
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negromancer posted:Black people love Vegeta and I never really understood why? I know I love Vegeta and every black person I know are Vegeta fans. It seems like it would make an interesting thinkpiece but I can hear the groans from the future. I honestly dislike Vegeta, but then again, I dislike Dragonball Z for basically railroading all my favorite characters to where the only two worth a drat are Goku and Vegeta.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:54
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blackguy32 posted:I honestly dislike Vegeta, but then again, I dislike Dragonball Z for basically railroading all my favorite characters to where the only two worth a drat are Goku and Vegeta. Get out. Nah just kidding. It really was the Goku feat. Vegeta with special guest appearances by Frieza show
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Jan 8, 2017 22:56
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negromancer posted:In fantastic news, Nicki Minaj is single so my chances to date her are now a non-zero number. I am still reeling over Serena personally 
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Jan 8, 2017 22:57
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negromancer posted:Black people love Vegeta and I never really understood why? I know I love Vegeta and every black person I know are Vegeta fans. It seems like it would make an interesting thinkpiece but I can hear the groans from the future. Maybe seeing themselves in him some? I identified with Vegeta a lot as a broke as gently caress white person when I watched DBZ back in the day and think maybe the reasons are similar. Goku pretty much just blunders into having an awesome life. Like seriously, the guy is a colossal dumbass but just has his life pretty much handed to him. Vegeta, however, works a gently caress of a lot harder and is far more intelligent and mature. However, Goku is always #1 no matter what Vegeta does. Vegeta is often not even #2. Goku just loving wins all the drat time while a frustrated Vegeta is stuck being a side character. Vegeta often does a poo poo load of the work but Goku gets all the credit. How often in the show did Vegeta do a ton of the fighting before Goku even bothered to show up? Early on Vegeta wanted be #1 but toward the end of the series he would have been happy if somebody just said "hey thank you for what you did, that wasn't all Goku!" You can see so much of America in that. Privileged white people get all of the credit while everybody else does all the work. America was literally built on the back of slave labor but white people get the credit. That's my thought, anyway; I could be totally wrong.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:59
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Maybe seeing themselves in him some? I identified with Vegeta a lot as a broke as gently caress white person when I watched DBZ back in the day and think maybe the reasons are similar. Goku pretty much just blunders into having an awesome life. Like seriously, the guy is a colossal dumbass but just has his life pretty much handed to him. Vegeta, however, works a gently caress of a lot harder and is far more intelligent and mature. However, Goku is always #1 no matter what Vegeta does. Vegeta is often not even #2. Goku just loving wins all the drat time while a frustrated Vegeta is stuck being a side character. Vegeta often does a poo poo load of the work but Goku gets all the credit. Pretty much what I was thinking.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Maybe seeing themselves in him some? I identified with Vegeta a lot as a broke as gently caress white person when I watched DBZ back in the day and think maybe the reasons are similar. Goku pretty much just blunders into having an awesome life. Like seriously, the guy is a colossal dumbass but just has his life pretty much handed to him. Vegeta, however, works a gently caress of a lot harder and is far more intelligent and mature. However, Goku is always #1 no matter what Vegeta does. Vegeta is often not even #2. Goku just loving wins all the drat time while a frustrated Vegeta is stuck being a side character. Vegeta often does a poo poo load of the work but Goku gets all the credit. This is a really clever analysis, IMO. I also expect that Vegeta rising up against the tyrant who destroyed his family and homeworld and enslaved him (ie: Frieza) makes him an appealing character as well.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:04
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Same. About Vegeta.botany posted:No, I realize that, that's exactly why I'm interested! With all the problems with black genealogy and the records, I'm just really interested in people who actually manage to dig stuff up. I completely understand the impulse though. (Partly because as a German I only recently got anywhere in investigating my own family background with respect to the nazi regime.) Pretty sure you're in the clear. That other guy just stunk of desperate attempt to ingratiate himself out of the hole he dug mightily. MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 23:05
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Majorian posted:This is a really clever analysis, IMO. I also expect that Vegeta rising up against the tyrant who destroyed his family and homeworld and enslaved him (ie: Frieza) makes him an appealing character as well. Yeah that would also make a ton of sense. I didn't think of that. My primary thought was from being in those job situations where I was one of the people doing all of the work while other people got all of the credit. You know, restaurants, retail, convenience...that sort of thing but I can really, really see that playing into it as well. edit: And now that I think about it...how often do people/monsters/villains show up specifically to talk to Goku and don't even acknowledge that any of the other characters exist? Though they constantly fight as a big team everybody is like "hey where is this Goku character? I hear he is a good fight man and I want to fight him. He beat X, Y, and Z!" Well no, he didn't; the team beat X, Y, and Z. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 23:07
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As a new topic of discussion can I put forward a sorta "Racism in places that you didn't think it was going to pop up, but after seeing it you're like 'Oh yeah no that makes sense' " situation? So I'm trying to learn to draw as a New Years thing and one of the most recommended instructor/book series is Andrew Loomis. Specifically he has a intro book called "Fun With a Pencil" that's pretty good at breaking down broader ideas of anatomy for people to get started drawing fast, at least that's the idea. It's a lot of "Draw a circle, now draw a few more circles, now draw the fuckin head". It starts out with generic flat plane diagrams showing ways to do different head shapes.  So far so good...oh, wait. God dammit.  Everything else is simply labeled based on the physical feature, but the two in the bottom row. No those get a race label. Maybe it's just a bad case of a caricature artist using bad labels. Ok, on to making bodies...  Son of a Bitch!  Yeah, that sounds about right.  Another thing I noticed on that first face list is that the mongoloid and negroid (gross) faces are already represented in the other faces. Wide Cheekbones and Highback got those archtypes without the racist connotation. I'm gonna stick with instruction books from this century. 
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Jan 8, 2017 23:10
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negromancer posted:Black people love Vegeta and I never really understood why? I know I love Vegeta and every black person I know are Vegeta fans. It seems like it would make an interesting thinkpiece but I can hear the groans from the future. Not only did Vegeta work for everything he had, but he was from a race that was enslaved.(efb) Also Vegeta's got a killer fist-bump: 
Koalas March fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 23:14
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Vegeta is a Prince of his entire race who has had it brutally taken away from him by a white alien and then has his people enslaved to his bidding until they become strong enough to defeat him. That sounds familiar... I will post some of my findings in this thread, mostly because there are some neat documents I have come across, including my great-grandfather's marriage record. It is awesome because it has a note from my great great grandmother approving the marriage, with some reservation.  Translating the note because it is hard to read: My Great Great Grandmother Lizzie, October 1906 posted:
What is fascinating to me is that Lizzy was a freed slave and could mostly read and write, and quite well for someone who was described on the census as a "housekeeper". She was a single mother, and I am struggling to find the history of her husband. Another interesting tidbit is that on most census she lists herself as negro, but on of them she lists the whole family as Indian. I wonder why she decided to that... Fluffdaddy fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 23:14
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Fluffdaddy posted:Vegeta is a Prince of his entire race who has had it brutally taken away from him by a white alien and then has his people enslaved to his bidding until they become strong enough to defeat him. That sounds familiar... I'm sorry if I missed it, but can you tell me what resources you are using? I'd really love to learn about my family and track some stuff down.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:18
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Koalas March posted:I'm sorry if I missed it, but can you tell me what resources you are using? I'd really love to learn about my family and track some stuff down. Luckily my family pretty much stayed in one place, so the Pike County Alabama library has been a godsend. Ancestry.com has a lot of free resources, but also a few paid ones that are worth the money if you are willing to dig deep.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:21
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Fluffdaddy posted:Vegeta is a Prince of his entire race who has had it brutally taken away from him by a white alien and then has his people enslaved to his bidding until they become strong enough to defeat him. That sounds familiar... Digging into the slave narratives and the WPA narratives were always a fascinating read. You actually got to read how committed they were to being free, which just doesn't come off that well when reading texts. You also got to see how cunning a lot of them were.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:26
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Fluffdaddy posted:Luckily my family pretty much stayed in one place, so the Pike County Alabama library has been a godsend. You shouldn't have to pay just to find out you're related to Thomas Jefferson. Sorry
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Jan 8, 2017 23:37
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Gringostar posted:You shouldn't have to pay just to find out you're related to Thomas Jefferson. Sorry Lets all talk about how Washington is a very uncommon white surname but very common black surname! negromancer fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 23:39
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negromancer posted:Lets all talk about how Washington is a very common white surname but very common black surname! What's funny is that I've never actually thought about that until now.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:41
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negromancer posted:Lets all talk about how Washington is a very common white surname but very common black surname! The rumor is that my last name was chosen by my ancestors after William T. Sherman for burning all those white people's houses down.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:42
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Koalas March posted:What's funny is that I've never actually thought about that until now. Once I found out about the Sally Hemmings thing and saw there was 3 other black people in my class named Jefferson but virtually no white people with that last name, kinda snowballed from there. Fluffdaddy posted:The rumor is that my last name was chosen by my ancestors after William T. Sherman for burning all those white people's houses down. I mean...that's a solid reason.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:43
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Fluffdaddy posted:The rumor is that my last name was chosen by my ancestors after William T. Sherman for burning all those white people's houses down. May your family line live on forever. e: there's probably a connection between libertarians loving the gently caress out of Jefferson and also viewing women as property that would be worth looking at. Gringostar fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 23:47
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Koalas March posted:Not only did Vegeta work for everything he had, but he was from a race that was enslaved.(efb) He's pretty much the only character in DBZ who isn't either comic relief or a Mary Sue.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:50
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Rent-A-Cop posted:He's also the only character in the entire series who consistently makes practical decisions and deals with real problems. Counterpoint: He didn't stop Cell when he could have out of pure ego.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:54
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Counterpoint: He didn't stop Cell when he could have out of pure ego. Counter point: he is the Prince of Saiyans and cell is only there because his dumbass son didn't wipe his feet before getting in the time machine.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:00
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Counterpoint: He didn't stop Cell when he could have out of pure ego.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:00
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Rent-A-Cop posted:True, but that's a relatable failing. When Vegeta fucks up it's always his pride or his temper getting in his way. People, and especially teenage boys, can easily relate to that. Everybody else is either a clown or Goku who makes Superman look like a nuanced character. People don't like Goku for the same reasons they don't like John Cena for the same reasons they don't like Superman.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:03
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Counterpoint: He didn't stop Cell when he could have out of pure ego. That was literally a plot-trap so that Goku/Gohan could save the day. Also I'm pissed that all of DBZ was basically about raising Gohan into some mega-hero Earth-savior type and possibly the most powerful saiyan.. only to have him completely neutered and sidelined in Super. The only upside is that Vegeta has gotten a lot more screen time. But I guess that's a rant for the Dragonball thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b0oQkjup4Q
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Jan 9, 2017 00:03
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Rent-A-Cop posted:He's also the only character in the entire series who consistently makes practical decisions and deals with real problems. Given the poo poo he's been through he's also totally justified in being a gigantic grumpus.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:04
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Crain posted:As a new topic of discussion can I put forward a sorta "Racism in places that you didn't think it was going to pop up, but after seeing it you're like 'Oh yeah no that makes sense' " situation? Sorry for the slightly off-topic  , but 'mongoloid' has a particularly striking dose of 'Jesus Christ white people' to it - it's not just racist, but ableist. See, Down's Syndrome wasn't always called Down's Syndrome - John Langdon Down described his patients as 'mongoloids' because he felt that their unusual facial features reminded him of people from East Asia. Interestingly, he used this as a piece of evidence for the biological unity of the races (since someone born in Europe could, in his opinion, look very much like someone from Mongolia) and therefore a reason to treat all people equally, but by the time that book of yours was written, a popular pseudoscientific theory had come about suggesting the opposite - that people with Down's Syndrome were literally subhuman, biological throwbacks to the rape of virtuous white women by the inferior Mongol race. It formed the cornerstone of quite a few eugenics arguments regarding mental disability at the time, and is the reason why 'mong' is an incredibly offensive term for anyone who is disabled.I'm sure there's a few theories from that era blaming other disorders on long-past interbreeding with black people, too, to bring us back to the topic.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:27
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Darth Walrus posted:a popular pseudoscientific theory had come about suggesting the opposite - that people with Down's Syndrome were literally subhuman, biological throwbacks to the rape of virtuous white women by the inferior Mongol race. Wow. That's one hell of a way to describe a genetic disorder...
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Jan 9, 2017 00:46
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Crain posted:Wow. That's one hell of a way to describe a genetic disorder... It's this kind of stuff that when we talk about institutional racism and how it's woven into the fabric of this country, it's like literally everything you look at, if you dig deep enough into the history it all comes around to "oh yeah gently caress POCs"
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Jan 9, 2017 00:48
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Crain posted:Wow. That's one hell of a way to describe a genetic disorder... Yeah that's a prime example of why eugenics is fine in theory but in practice mostly was just used to justify "we are awesome, everybody else sucks, and anything bad that happens to us is just genetic pollution by people who are not us." It's why anti-miscegenation laws were so popular among white people.
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Jan 9, 2017 01:01
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