|
Magic Hate Ball posted:The best reason to move past religion as a society is so we can stop comparing movie characters to characters from the bible. Probably not, since the Bible's been one of the most influential pieces of literature written going on almost two thousand years now. Plus it'd be pretty dope if it actually got taught like literature. Doesn't help that a book compiled over several millenia and featuring dozens if not hundreds of authors and thousands of editors is going to inevitably contain some pretty basic archetypes and stories which are inevitably going to show up in movies featuring spaceships, giant monsters, and/or superheroes.
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 12:00 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:To be clear, there is no making excuses for Anakin. He was a bad person, and then he was burnt alive and put through other unimaginable torture. Anakin truly died. And I mean that in a very specific sense: And yet Vader is still Luke's father. That is what it means to equivocate, to "lie like truth" because you have used the truth to lie. And Vader "only following orders"? Vader demonstrates that he opposes the Death Star firing, but he also demonstrates that he could prevent it and chooses not to. But I think there's something to the idea that his flaw is that he is numb in this sense and is held back by his acceptance of Tarkin's authourity, when he would ideally seize the Death Star. And I think we at least are interested in the same thing when we speak of absolute good and evil being convergent. quote:And I think you miss the radical point of the Bible and of Star Wars: as Zizek notes, only a suffering God can save us. Not a bad God. Vader suffers in solidarity with people. This is a hollow point, in that it that cannot cope with the reality that this suffering God, through his church, is the author of incredible suffering. Obviously, I don't think that this renders Christianity worthless. But a Christianity unable to acknowledge it's own colossal failure and the fact that this failure reflects on Christ is precisely simply another Roman Empire. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jan 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:We already live in this age. Presidents Bush and Trump have both been compared to Palpatine and Candidate Clinton with Leia/Mon Motha/Jyn. Hahah, yeah. The irony is that this is giving Bush, Clinton, and Trump way too much credit. Somehow, we're not taking Star Wars too seriously, but our politicians. There's more to it, but that's part of why it works in Guardians of the Galaxy when Thanos derides Ronan by saying "The only matter I do not take seriously, boy, is you. Your politics bore me! Your demeanor is that of a pouting child." e: I might concede Cheney as Palapatine, but even Bush eventually caught onto him. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jan 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 03:39
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:e: I might concede Cheney as Palapatine, but even Bush eventually caught onto him. Really? When did this happen?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Really? When did this happen?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:04
|
|
|
They actually used to call Cheney Darth Vader. Which was an inappropriate comparison, but we're talking about American politics. The same politics that painted America not as the Evil Empire, but as the plucky Rebels against the Soviets. And then tried to literally build a space laser project called Star Wars.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Really? When did this happen? Mostly just in terms of giving Cheney much less influence over him towards the end of his presidency, I think. I could be wrong?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:20
|
|
|
What did I just watch and where can I find more?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:33
|
|
|
gohmak posted:What did I just watch and where can I find more? Join me, and we will rule the galaxy as father and moe!
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:37
|
|
|
For over a thousand generations, the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic... before the dark times... before the anime.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 04:52
|
|
|
Im just relieved to finally see some quality MTG parodies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 05:31
|
|
|
I would play the heck out of Sen. Sanders
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 05:36
|
|
|
Oh he got played alright.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 05:50
|
|
|
Why is Sidious so mean to that one cohort of Gunray's during their Skype call at the beginning of TPM?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 06:18
|
|
|
Extrapolating from this, the Chameleon Colossus is the mightiest Democrat.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 06:50
|
|
|
General Dog posted:Why is Sidious so mean to that one cohort of Gunray's during their Skype call at the beginning of TPM? When you spend a significant chunk of your life pretending to be someone you're not, you gotta find some way to blow off some steam.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 06:56
|
|
|
General Dog posted:Why is Sidious so mean to that one cohort of Gunray's during their Skype call at the beginning of TPM? 'Cause he's a fuckin' rear end in a top hat, that's why.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 07:08
|
|
|
Schwarzwald posted:Extrapolating from this, the Chameleon Colossus is the mightiest Democrat. But enough about Hillary Clinton. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 07:31
|
|
|
Luke, did I ever tell you...quote:"Luke, did I ever tell you these were your father's droids? We went on wild adventures together for over 3 years in the Clone Wars, and the little one even saved me from a swarm of buzz droids, yet I somehow don't recognize them anymore. They were good friends."
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 07:52
|
|
|
You think the Jedi Academy was like, entirely Force classes? So they can move poo poo with their minds, but they're also illiterate?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 08:14
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:You think the Jedi Academy was like, entirely Force classes? So they can move poo poo with their minds, but they're also illiterate? http://www.tor.com/2012/10/03/most-citizens-of-the-star-wars-galaxy-are-probably-totally-illiterate/
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 08:22
|
|
|
Their library is hologram-only.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:http://www.tor.com/2012/10/03/most-citizens-of-the-star-wars-galaxy-are-probably-totally-illiterate/ It IS weird that there's like, no media in Star Wars. They only ever seem to entertain themselves with spectator events. It kind of tracks that every other movie someone is like "What the gently caress are you talking about? What are the Jedi?" poo poo gets forgotten pretty fast when it's just word of mouth I guess. I guess there's media in the Christmas special. Is that still canon?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:http://www.tor.com/2012/10/03/most-citizens-of-the-star-wars-galaxy-are-probably-totally-illiterate/ While it makes some good points, there is one weak point in the author's knowledge and imagination: quote:In our own culture, pictograms have rapidly replaced words on traffic signs, restrooms, etc. The buttons being pressed by the Death Star control room workers might not even be letters. They might be pictograms representing different functions; functions like “death ray blast” and “trash compact.” A Chinese person would be like "but the pictograph is a word."
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 08:29
|
|
|
Part of the aesthetic of Star Wars is that it has decoupled the appearance of technology with the social effects that it has had in reality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 08:45
|
|
|
Star Wars has its own made-up alphabet - I remember watching one of those 'changes between the originals and SEs' the other day, and there's a panel on the Death Star that originally had 'POWER' and some other electrical stuff in English that was changed to 'Aurebesh'. I don't remember if it's supposed to be pictorial or whatever but the Star Wars characters aren't literally illiterate. They might be functionally illiterate, like a lot of people in the real world are, but they at least nominally know how to read and write. ("The ability to read and write does not denote intelligence!" - Qui-Gon Jinn, probably)
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 09:23
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:It IS weird that there's like, no media in Star Wars. They only ever seem to entertain themselves with spectator events. It kind of tracks that every other movie someone is like "What the gently caress are you talking about? What are the Jedi?" poo poo gets forgotten pretty fast when it's just word of mouth I guess. I Dunno about media But definitely pod racing, droid races etc on tv in the coruscant bar in ep2
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 13:40
|
|
|
Also, advertising.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 13:43
|
|
|
Aren't there cameras in the senate chamber?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 13:55
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Aren't there cameras in the senate chamber? For the senators' benefit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 14:33
|
|
|
Wild Horses posted:I Dunno about media But definitely pod racing, droid races etc on tv in the coruscant bar in ep2 Also, the floaty-dancing-sperm-in-bubble Cirque du Soleil show and obviously they listen to music.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
Obi-Wan would fit right into this thread. He doesn't think of droids as people; he thinks of them as appliances, or tools. They're interchangeable and inconsequential to him and, even if he did recognize them, it would only be as a matter of curiosity. Either that or he doesn't want Luke asking too many uncomfortable questions when he's not ready to provide the answers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:40
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:This is a hollow point, in that it that cannot cope with the reality that this suffering God, through his church, is the author of incredible suffering. Going back a little bit, maybe this will help, but what SMG is specifically referring to is the subversive atheistic core of Christianity. The radical aspect presented in Christ's death - a God that suffers in solidarity with people. “What dies on the Cross is not only the terrestrial-finite representative of God, but God himself, the very transcendent God of beyond. Both terms of the opposition, Father and Son, the substantial God as the Absolute In-itself and the God-for-us, revealed to us, die, are sublated in the Holy Spirit.” -Zizek Christ's death presents freedom with all it’s terrifying dimension - there is no God - God is dead. Suffering caused in Christ's name is explicitly taking his name in vain - Christ is not the author of this suffering - Christ is who suffers. Now here’s where I feel your reading of the movies and SMG is getting muddled. Equating Christ's teachings, which are explicitly anti-slavery, with the actions of the Roman Empire, Roman Catholic Church and so on. It’s important to remember the church that lead to Anakin's downfall, and unwittingly brought about the transition of the Republic into an Empire, was the Jedi Order - see no slavery, speak no slavery, hear no slavery. Anakin killing younglings, was justified as service to a greater good, a blood sacrifice “I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire.” Again the satirical point of the prequels is that restoration of the Republic and the Jedi Order, should Luke misunderstand Vader's message and last act, will lead directly from Episode 6 to Episode 1 and the perpetuation of slavery. What Vader leaves behind - what Christ leaves behind - is freedom with all it's terrifying dimension intact. That in the vast empty void of space filled with catastrophe and suffering, all that remains of God is the Holy Spirit, the community of believers - implicit in this idea is the abolition of slavery, The Kingdom of Heaven. Also going back to something else you posted earlier, that might also help. Here's a quick read on the Christian God to emphasize the importance of Christ's death and suffering in solidarity with people. They’re not so much an imposing omnipotent and omnipresent figure, rather a God overwhelmed by creation and rendered impotent by the scale of the catastrophe - an accident. Exodus:Gods and Kings, Prometheus, Elysium, Watchmen, Man of Steel and so on all deal with this in varying ways. The birth of Christ is "after the shock, literally a new subject emerges" suffering in solidarity with people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:43
|
|
|
From that site: "Hey Luke, did I ever tell you that all Jedi used to dress like homeless moisture farmers the same as I do, despite that still dressing like a Jedi is no good way to hide from Empire? It was a good robe though." That is actually an important distinction within the series of films. Remember that Episode I-III are sequels to A New Hope. In A New Hope, Obi-Wan's robes signify him as blending in or living amongst the desert tribes; they are tribal and working class garbs. The Jedi order takes them as uniform in the sequels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
The thing about those "Star Wars galaxy has no media/internet/culture/X" is that most of the films happen on the fringe or in a warzone, where such things are by definition (nearly)absent. So, yeah, the view we have is skewed by the setting choice and the time restrictions of the medium. Still, those few times we intersect with "normal" society, we do see culture, if often as set decoration for the action rather than focus. Originals: outback mudholes, warzones, military bases and swamps; BUT we do see culture in a frontier town (and gangster den!) and a tribal village, and we don't spend enough time in Cloud City's living areas to observe anything. Prequels: outback mudholes, warzones, military bases and swamps; BUT anytime we visit actual Coruscant streets (out of the Republic offices) and also the omnipresent cultural trappings of Naboo. A discussion can be had on the choice of showing many areas at the fringe of society and culture, a fantasy of the pure and wild outside? (Novels, comics, etc. are full of cultural mentions, it's so much easier in those media.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
Owen Lars killed Darth Maul.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
brawleh posted:Going back a little bit, maybe this will help, but what SMG is specifically referring to is the subversive atheistic core of Christianity. The radical aspect presented in Christ's death - a God that suffers in solidarity with people. There are a few things I am reacting to: The first is SMG's evidently approving (or at least lazy) quotation of the word "pagan" as a slur. The problem here is that it is thoughtlessly used to refer to the paganism of the center (pre-Christian Rome; the West), the paganism of the people at the periphery of the Empire, and the entirety of the then unknown world. Much as prior to the Holocaust, Christians were able to excuse their persecution of the Jews on the logic that they had once been Jews, so they rationalized yet greater crimes with the logic that they had once been pagans. This is the root of the Christianity which surpassed Egypt and Rome as a slave-holding empire. And again, Christ offers no excuses for this. He is his Church. To pretend Christ didn't do these things is to deny Christ. Or perhaps worse, the Holy Spirit did these things. The second is the reality that during the persecution of the Christians by Rome, another atheist looked at the whole range of possibilities offered by the spirituality of his time for a tool of conquest and realized the potential of Christianity- the Emperor Constantine I: quote:The historian bishop Eusebius of Caesaria states that Constantine was marching with his army (Eusebius does not specify the actual location of the event, but it is clearly not in the camp at Rome), when he looked up to the sun and saw a cross of light above it, and with it the Greek words "(ἐν) τούτῳ νίκα" ("In this, conquer"),[3] a phrase often rendered into Latin as in hoc signo vinces ("in this sign, you will conquer").[4] In another thread, I was satisfied with the explanation that the Christians who followed Constantine were not atheists, but now I am trying to push past this, because Emperor Palpatine was also a Christian atheist. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Owen Lars killed Darth Maul. So he kills Qui Gon, survives getting cut in half by Obiwan Kenobi, fights Darth Sidious to a stand still, and gets wiped out by goony Owen Lars? Hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 19:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 12:00 |
|
|
Danger posted:From that site: If you look at a shot where moisture farmers and Jedi are both in frame, you can visibly see that the farmer robes are made of much coarser material. The Jedi ostentatiously dress like peasants, but they still live in a palace just down the street from the Senate, and that's something they carry with them everywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 20:45
|
|