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MonsterEnvy posted:Also it appears that Eva did indeed survive this round. Yeah, that part is interesting too. Given the police report stuff in the first episode, it's likely everyone actually died. Eva getting through it might be part of the theory - like, she did the murders, but then snuck off the island later and secretly survived somewhere.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:27
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This whole decade time skip makes more sense when you realize it took that long for Beatrice resorting to convincing Battler that anime is real and your friend. Why do I get the feeling Ange is the main character now and Battler is just gonna sit in the corner after being so thoroughly and emotionally owned? I forgot to mention the best part of the update is the credits simply saying "All the Goats" Fabulousvillain fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 19:29
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But somehow Jessica died really gruesomely. Did Eva do that? The level of damage indicated by her profile picture seems a bit much, even for her... she'd have to shoot her multiple times with a shotgun to do that. Ugh, gross. Eva certainly had motivation to kill her, too, considering their last "conversation." I'm still holding onto the feeling that Battler finally acquiescing wasn't the end that Beatrice wanted, that there was a kernel of truth in that North Wind and Sun masquerade. Her facial expressions waver so much in this scene, as if part of her is playing the part of the "evil witch" and another part is still trying to get him to fight. I mean, if we can readily assume that some of the characters have multiple personalities/agendas, why not Beatrice too? I wonder if that other part of her was relieved that "Ange" showed up to bail Battler out. Ange is speaking to what Beatrice herself can't: that solving the who, why, and how of the Rokkenjima mystery is the priority here. Sigh. That was a lot to take in, though.
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Jan 8, 2017 19:37
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So what's North Wind and Sun?
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Jan 8, 2017 19:53
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bman in 2288 posted:So what's North Wind and Sun? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrFUYAJXWLU But in Battler's case, taking off his coat means never learning the truth about Rokkenjima. witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 19:54
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In case you don't want to watch a video: it's one of Aesop's Fables. The story goes roughly like this: The North Wind and the Sun are arguing about who is stronger. They see a man walking on the road, and agree that whoever can strip him naked first is the stronger. The wind tries to blow all his clothes off, repeatedly, but is unable to do it - in fact, the harder the wind blows, the more the man wraps himself up to keep warm. Eventually, the wind gives up and lets the sun try. The sun warms the area up, and the man voluntarily removes all his clothing and gets into a river to stay cool. The parallel here is that Beatrice has been unable to get Battler to accept the existence of (totally fake) witches by assaulting him, but she might be able to accomplish it by being nice to him instead and making him WANT to believe in witches. He almost did, too, but he never will, because witches are 100% fake. EDIT: Oh, yeah, modern versions usually just have it be a coat or something, probably because we get a lot more freaked out about naked people culturally. Sometimes it's also a cloak. General idea remains the same. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 20:01
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Oh. Yeah, that's a nice Aesop.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:07
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idonotlikepeas posted:EDIT: Oh, yeah, modern versions usually just have it be a coat or something, probably because we get a lot more freaked out about naked people culturally. Sometimes it's also a cloak. General idea remains the same. Yeah, a story about two forces of natures fighting over who can expose the D first isn't super kid-friendly, I suppose.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:15
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This update was like 2016.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:18
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Tender Child Loins posted:Yeah, a story about two forces of natures fighting over who can expose the D first isn't super kid-friendly, I suppose. I'm pretty sure based on episode 2 battler accepting the existence of witches does lead to him stripping naked, though.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:30
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oath2order posted:I'm pretty sure based on episode 2 battler accepting the existence of witches does lead to him stripping naked, though. Beatrice has already seen the D. Ergo, there is more to this story than the question of whether or not witches exist.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:34
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Tender Child Loins posted:Beatrice has already seen the D. Ergo, there is more to this story than the question of whether or not witches exist. Without love, the D cannot be seen.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:36
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oath2order posted:I'm pretty sure based on episode 2 battler accepting the existence of witches does lead to him stripping naked, though. Hey, what goes on between Battler and an imaginary witch and a bunch of goats is none of our business.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:41
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I had a feeling about what was going to happen the moment Battler acknowledged magic a little at the very beginning, then it solidified when everyone got real goofy. It's just too out of tone for the game. I can't comment on Ange since she's the only thing I remember about the last arc in the anime. Weirdly, everything else about it is a total blank. Sindai fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 21:09
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I'm very disappointed in Beato. I mean, you'd think that a figment of Battlers imagination would be able to hold it together for the last 30 seconds after she worked so hard on the lead in.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:16
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Going back to Eva being the only survivor, does this mean Eva killed her husband and son? Because that's hard to believe.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:29
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Any hint of things turning out well in this story makes me suspicious, so around the beginning of this update I was feeling extremely suspicious, but then, wow, gee whiz, About halfway through the video I started yelling at my friends who had already read Umineko years ago, and they sent me this in response. Dunked on indeed 
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Jan 8, 2017 21:40
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Well that was a fun show. On to the next one for more lights, sounds, and clues to the truth. Through, this does add to a bit of fun, but I don't think that Ryukish07 will follow up on the idea. That of a time traveler doing the murders, after all, with a time machine there is no locked room you can't get into. grandalt fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 21:47
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Solovey posted:Any hint of things turning out well in this story makes me suspicious, so around the beginning of this update I was feeling extremely suspicious, but then, wow, gee whiz, Hahaha Thanks, I forgot to post that
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Jan 8, 2017 21:49
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gently caress. We all got played. drat you Virgilia, I was so sure you were on our side. It explains why Renove didn't try to stop Beatrice from explaining everything in red too.
CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 22:39
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Memes aside, as several posters have pointed out Beatrice didn't really try to finish the job, so I don't know if you can really call this a dunking. Also is it just me, or is it getting hard to distinguish between new readers and veterans witch-posting? Let's not overdo it on trolling the players, the game does enough of it already.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:46
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Solovey posted:Any hint of things turning out well in this story makes me suspicious, so around the beginning of this update I was feeling extremely suspicious, but then, wow, gee whiz,
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Jan 8, 2017 22:50
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Tender Child Loins posted:I'm still holding onto the feeling that Battler finally acquiescing wasn't the end that Beatrice wanted, that there was a kernel of truth in that North Wind and Sun masquerade. Her facial expressions waver so much in this scene, as if part of her is playing the part of the "evil witch" and another part is still trying to get him to fight. I mean, if we can readily assume that some of the characters have multiple personalities/agendas, why not Beatrice too? I interpreted that as her just going "gently caress you, looook at how good an actor I am, Ushiromiya Battleeeeerr! ahaha.wav". Given everything she did in the last episode was undercover witchery, we've really not seen much evidence of her being anything but massively dickish.
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Jan 8, 2017 22:52
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oath2order posted:Without love, the D cannot be seen. New thread title pls
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Jan 8, 2017 23:50
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Just out of curiosity is this turn heel the reason why people like Episode 3? Cause in all honesty until this point I thought it was kinda bad, but this makes up for it in my opinion. Especially this:
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Jan 9, 2017 00:13
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Tender Child Loins posted:I'm still holding onto the feeling that Battler finally acquiescing wasn't the end that Beatrice wanted, that there was a kernel of truth in that North Wind and Sun masquerade. Her facial expressions waver so much in this scene, as if part of her is playing the part of the "evil witch" and another part is still trying to get him to fight. I mean, if we can readily assume that some of the characters have multiple personalities/agendas, why not Beatrice too? I wonder if that other part of her was relieved that "Ange" showed up to bail Battler out. Ange is speaking to what Beatrice herself can't: that solving the who, why, and how of the Rokkenjima mystery is the priority here. Sigh. That was a lot to take in, though. We already know that Beatrice doesn't do efficient closing from the other witches though. When she's about to win she plays around and gloats rather than going in for the kill She's also interested in avoiding boredom - and if Battler fully submits, that might be the end of the fun. (though we dont know what a completed game or victory means yet.) There's a lot of gaps in our knowledge involving her history with Kinzo, her imprisonment and apparent rebirth and I feel like that has to be tied to her motivation. PlaceholderPigeon fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 00:20
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Fabulousvillain posted:Just out of curiosity is this turn heel the reason why people like Episode 3? Cause in all honesty until this point I thought it was kinda bad, but this makes up for it in my opinion. Especially this: It's a big reason, yes. Though the Logic Battles are definitely a big appeal of the series, and episode 3 has them in spades. If Pheonix Wright Style logical turnabouts and twists don't do it for you, then I don't know. I do wonder if maybe something is lost in the LP format, since the music really does keep things hype as gently caress. It's also probably the best paced arc in the question arcs, with really no boring scenes. Pretty much every chapter contains some new major twist to the characters or our understanding of what's going on. Unlike 10 updates of Battler sexually harassing his cousins and 7 of Shannon's relationship woes, we pretty much get straight to it.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:27
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CottonWolf posted:I interpreted that as her just going "gently caress you, looook at how good an actor I am, Ushiromiya Battleeeeerr! ahaha.wav". Given everything she did in the last episode was undercover witchery, we've really not seen much evidence of her being anything but massively dickish. Feels like the thread title really is appropriate for this scene, i.e. Beatrice as Rorschach test. edit: oh no, really? I am pretty invested in learning how Battler is going to pick himself up from this situation, though. vvvv witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 00:37
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oath2order posted:It's a big reason, yes. Though the Logic Battles are definitely a big appeal of the series, and episode 3 has them in spades. If Pheonix Wright Style logical turnabouts and twists don't do it for you, then I don't know. I do wonder if maybe something is lost in the LP format, since the music really does keep things hype as gently caress. Please now look forward to Episode 4, which has the worst pacing of the Question Arcs.
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Jan 9, 2017 00:55
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Tender Child Loins posted:edit: oh no, really? I am pretty invested in learning how Battler is going to pick himself up from this situation, though. There is a range of feelings regarding certain storytelling decisions in Episode 4, and let's stop the conversation there. We can come back to it after Episode 4 concludes.
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Jan 9, 2017 01:18
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oath2order posted:It's a big reason, yes. Though the Logic Battles are definitely a big appeal of the series, and episode 3 has them in spades. If Pheonix Wright Style logical turnabouts and twists don't do it for you, then I don't know. I do wonder if maybe something is lost in the LP format, since the music really does keep things hype as gently caress. Just thinking about it I think it was Eva Beatrice that killed it for me. Yes her being there is the whole reason and build up for the Witch Wrestling Turn Heel at the end, but once she became "the villain" it just got too wacky for me which is the point in retrospect. I do agree with your reasons why Episode 3 is good so maybe if I was playing it at my own pace I'd like it more, although I actually liked the backstory build up before poo poo hits the fan. Well I am glad Eva Beatrice has hosed off into oblivion so Episode 4 will start off right. Rodyle posted:Please now look forward to Episode 4, which has the worst pacing of the Question Arcs. poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2017 01:32
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 whaaaat and Battler's... looks like it's implying that Eva and Battler found Nanjo's corpse, and then Eva killed Battler assuming he was the murderer instead of Jessica? curiousCat fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 03:06
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MOTHERFUCKER! I've been thoroughly owned by a figment of Battler's imagination! At least newcomer-who-is-probably-Ange has her head on straight.
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Jan 9, 2017 03:37
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Rodyle posted:Please now look forward to Episode 4, which has the worst pacing of the Question Arcs. It's a great episode, but I might charitably describe EP4 as aggressively backloaded.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:21
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Appropriately it has the best finale of the QAs. Though yes that's all to be said on the subject. It will become pretty clear what the issue is shortly anyway.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:28
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No post from Resurgam? I was looking forward to it all day 
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Jan 9, 2017 04:52
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Neopie posted:No post from Resurgam? I was looking forward to it all day Maybe he's truly submitted and is in complete awe of Beatrice and cannot find words to describe her wondrous magic. 
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Jan 9, 2017 04:54
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Shouldn't you change your avatar firebird after it has been proven that Eve is not a witch. By two "real witches"
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Jan 9, 2017 06:22
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Neopie posted:No post from Resurgam? I was looking forward to it all day Was thinking the same thing.
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Jan 9, 2017 08:01
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Okay. I think there's a way to put this scenario together. If we combine theories we've already been floating around here. Everything except for... whatever those numbers are. Whatever a "small golden land" is. Let's separate out the twilights. First Twilight: All the servants and Kinzo die. ("die"? Shannon and Kanon are listed under their pseudonyms, whereas the other three are not) Second Twilight: Rosa and Maria die. Fourth-Sixth Twilights: Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Kyrie die (in that order, if the order of the Twilights in the credits is correct). Seventh-Eighth Twilights: Krauss and Natsuhi die (again, in that order.) Ninth Twilight: George, Nanjo, and Battler die. Jessica goes missing. ???: Eva leaves the island. So let's look at this again. First Twilight: Four people definitely die. But let's just say two don't, Shannon and Kanon. I think Shannon said her name was Sayo to George at one point, but Kanon refused to reveal his? I'm just going to say S and K for right now, though. So S and K fake their deaths, and I guess Nanjo by default has to be an accomplice here. Kinzo is probably also sort of an accomplice but he dies instantly, so I'm not gonna worry about that. So S, K, and Nanjo fake the locked room cycle somehow. If two people aren't actually dead, then it's not very difficult. So that's this one explained. But take a moment to look at the profiles here -- all of them seem reverent of the epitaph, the sacrifices that were made, that sort of thing. Second Twilight: Rosa and Eva have an argument, Eva kills Rosa, then Maria to silence her after the fact. I don't think anyone's in doubt here. Again, this one's easy to explain. Fourth-Sixth Twilights: Kyrie tells Rudolf of her suspicions with the cigarette, they take Hideyoshi to the mansion. Eva sneaks out of the guesthouse as well. When confronted, Hideyoshi reacts, killing Rudolf and mortally wounding Kyrie -- whether with the stakes or another method (probably the guns, right? the issue is that the wounds wouldn't match, but I don't think this needs to be explained for all of this to fit). Kyrie strikes back and kills Hideyoshi (which Eva witnesses, somehow). Look at the profiles here -- Rudolf's complains about the stake, Hideyoshi's is almost mournful, and Kyrie's is almost spiteful. That's what makes me so confident in this theory, it sounds so strongly like Eva's words there. Regardless. Seventh-Eighth Twilights: Eva goes to get coffee for Krauss and Natsuhi. She drugs them, then strangles them both before removing their bodies from the guesthouse somehow (a cart?) and driving stakes into them. Then she complains about them again in the updated character profiles, how she doesn't want to bother with the stakes. Ninth Twilight: George sneaks out of the guesthouse using whatever method Eva's been using, goes to visit Shannon's body. S is alive and kills him for some reason (or maybe he stumbles upon K and K is forced to kill him? I don't know, really -- but one of those two kills him). Then they write that number for some reason??? I've got nothing on that, honestly, moving on. Battler, Nanjo, Eva, and Jessica storm the mansion. S and K lay in wait. Eva blinds Jessica in her very real freakout. The two pairs split. S confronts Nanjo outside of the servant room. They have an argument that Jessica hears -- and then Jessica hears Kanon's voice. It's K, guiding her around away from "the witch" while S kills Nanjo. Eva and Battler eventually return and stumble upon Nanjo's body. Both immediately assume the other must, in fact, be the murderer. Battler accuses Eva, Eva says that it "took him long enough to notice", notably not confirming she killed all of them or anything of the sort. Eva survives. S, K, and possibly even Jessica leave the island through alternative means (?). Alternatively, S, K, and Jessica stay in "the Golden Land" (that other bedroom) until the story is over. That would cover how they reunite, if that counts as true. As for chewed to bits by demons... thrown off a cliff and dashed against the rocks? I don't know. It works out as well that every murder by S/K is assumed to be committed using a "gun or spear-shaped object" except for Kinzo in this theory, and every other means is Eva.
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