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mng posted:You remember Reloaded because of the set pieces and people, but not because of the actual plot. I honestly can't remember Revolutions right now. I totally get this. Revolutions actively repulsed me but I forgot the Architect was in Reloaded until reading the last few posts 
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Jan 9, 2017 02:30
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PostNouveau posted:There's a lot of really good action, but the architect and the big reveal he has are so bad that they drat near ruin the movie. Yeah they were released back to back along with the video game Enter the Matrix and the Animatrix. The Matrix MMO came out a year or so later as a sequel to Revolutions. I appreciate the ambition of the project, but seriously a movie needs to work as an independent movie and can't require the audience to have digested and made connections with six different mediums to make sense.
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Jan 9, 2017 02:36
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mng posted:You remember Reloaded because of the set pieces and people, but not because of the actual plot. I honestly can't remember Revolutions right now. I don't remember Reloaded. At all. But neither I do Revolutions. Maybe there was no spoon after all.
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Jan 9, 2017 02:52
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They made shirts that said I Rebel on them? That line wasn't in the movie. They cut that line from the movie. That was a shirt made about a trailer. I fuckin' think movies suck, guys
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Jan 9, 2017 03:01
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Reloaded was totally memorable. Neo had to fulfill the prophecy by entering a door at exactly the right moment, so he had to find out how from the new oracle who was on the run and protected by some badass monk. She tells him to find the keymaster who can open the door and the Marovingian knows where he is. Neo goes to the Marovingian who's a real creep show who doesn't want to help, but then his wife helps because Neo makes out with her. Huge awesome action setpiece on the highway with the Marovingian's twin albino ghost goons. The keymaster gets Neo through the door, architect scene, Neo in real life has super powers and zaps several robots. Revolutions, IIRC, is 8 hours of tertiary characters in mech suits shooting at a never ending stream of robots.
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Jan 9, 2017 03:04
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Reloaded: dumb world building Revolutions: almost a decent a movie about a future city fighting off an invasion of robots if you ignore all the matrix-related poo poo in it Animatrix: anime
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Jan 9, 2017 03:47
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Atlas Hugged posted:Film can be a collaborative, if corporate, process. Not every director needs to be a visionary. Some guys can get away with just setting up a shot, giving basic directions to actors, and making sure everyone else is doing their job and keeping things on time and under budget. This is why studios loving love Bay. Atlas Hugged posted:Snyder is a lot like Tim Burton actually in that they both have a single trick. It's a really good trick when it matches the source material, but it's often really inappropriate for the movies that they end up directing. It's really no surprise that Snyder got his start in music videos and commercials. He's the master of a really awesome, highly stylized shot that gets you excited enough to buy a product. That works fine for a movie like 300, where it's not supposed to be anything but six-packs and limbs getting hacked off. This unfortunately gave him the reputation as being the go to guy for adapting critically acclaimed comic books into movies and he's really not well suited for it. Watchmen almost works just because of the quality of the source material, but it's still a poorly paced movie that had to cut a lot of the more intellectual and emotional aspects of the comic just to fit its runtime. So you end up having this really stylistic but often incoherent film.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:06
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It's not just that, though. The Matrix is, conceptually, incredibly different to Matrix 2 and 3. It's been a while since I saw it broken down but there's a lot of differences in the world-building, the direction, and the general 'feel' of M1 compared to the sequel. I also think there's something about how M1 was a very gnostic film whereas M2 and M3 swerve straight into a Christianity messiah story. I've also personally taken it as the best evidence that The Matrix borrowed a huge amount of ideas and shots from Grant Morrison's Invisibles comic series whereas Reloaded and Revolutions was the Wachowskis doing their own thing.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:09
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achillesforever6 posted:I think that's why people like the Marvel movies, they have a system and get directors that are good at obeying directions (though for the next couple of movies like GOTG2 and Thor 3 they got James Gunn and Taika Waititi who are pretty creative and have their voice) and don't try to take the movie away from the vision that Kevin Feige wants it to go. If anything Kevin Feige is the director of these Marvel movies. This is why Marvel movies are so successful, is having a guy at the steering wheel with a long term plan who knows the comics in and out, and is capable of putting his foot down. When Disney bought Marvel after Iron Man they wanted to immediately do an Avengers movie right away and make spin offs of whatever characters the audience likes the best and it was Feige who said "gently caress no". Feige goes out of his way to find unique and interesting directors who best fit the characters. He actually rejected James Gunn's original GOTG script, saying "this needs more James Gunn". One of many reasons WB is struggling with their DC properties is they have no Kevin Feige to direct the franchise instead have a board of business men and executives. It reeks of desperation and panic rather than a genuine love of the DC characters. I know it sounds like I'm gushing over Feige but he's probably the best man to be running the MCU since he is a genuine fan of the source material and because of that he will do what's best for the characters and storyline, rather than what makes the most money.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:20
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Never followed the gossip or thread but did they lose $2,000 a month in patreon money because of that Rogue One review or am I going crazy and it was always at $14k-ish?
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Jan 9, 2017 04:36
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I really didn't like Reloaded, I think I dislike it more than Revolutions, for several reasons. First, to everybody saying it had tons of good action, said action had next to no stakes and tension. I'll make an exception for the Highway sequence but whenever Neo was doing anything there wasn't the slightest sense of danger or purpose, he just punches a bunch of idiots and never has a problem. The worst part was the 100 Smith fight, he literally ends that fight by thinking 'this is dumb' and just loving flying off, with all the Smiths given each confused looks and leaving. Watching an invincible god fight a bunch of videogame NPCs quickly gets old. Contrast with the first Matrix, I though that movie did a good job at making the Agents really threatening first by killing off all of the supporting cast and kicking the poo poo out of Morpheus and taking him to their skyscraper fortress. Trinity does shoot one in the head but only after he clowns Neo and is about to finish him. When Neo takes on Smith he only barely manages to make it out and even then only because Smith has to be way too fancy in his way of killing him. The final scene where he realizes the full extent of his power is great catharsis for seeing him finally really defeat a nearly unstoppable enemy, its just good storytelling. The action also went on way too long and felt very padded, the Highway sequence is great, for the first ten minutes, and then it reminds me of the endless lightsaber battles of the prequels. Some of the action scenes felt pointless, particularly the one where Neo was fighting the Chinese guy who's like 'Actually I was just testing you!'. The entire plot felt very second act and had no good payoff or interesting build up, and the whole movie seemed to get way too caught up in its own hype and spent most of its non-fighting time slumming around in freshman year philosophy pretending it meant something. Ugh, just hate it.
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Jan 9, 2017 04:40
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Reloaded was cool, Revolutions was closure. I don't remember people hating them at all. I think people were more bored by them. The matrix sequels were burdened more by being a trilogy and the Wachowskis had nowhere left to go. Reloaded had some really good action sequences but Revolutions absolutely had to resolve the story and I don't think there was anything bigger that could be done at that point. I think they could have been done differently but people really really wanted the story to go forward. The matrix was like a good idea that was perfectly summed up in the first film but the desire for more stories in that universe were never satisfied. The Archaic posted:This is why Marvel movies are so successful, is having a guy at the steering wheel with a long term plan who knows the comics in and out, and is capable of putting his foot down. When Disney bought Marvel after Iron Man they wanted to immediately do an Avengers movie right away and make spin offs of whatever characters the audience likes the best and it was Feige who said "gently caress no". Feige goes out of his way to find unique and interesting directors who best fit the characters. He actually rejected James Gunn's original GOTG script, saying "this needs more James Gunn". One of many reasons WB is struggling with their DC properties is they have no Kevin Feige to direct the franchise instead have a board of business men and executives. It reeks of desperation and panic rather than a genuine love of the DC characters. Nolan's Batman is probably the exception but Nolan has a draw of his own.
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Jan 9, 2017 05:38
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I was teenager when The Matrix sequels and the Star Wars prequels came out. I was still trying to rationalize the SW prequels at the time because I liked the idea of the Star Wars "Universe" and also I was an idiot in denial. This was also the same time as those Lord of the Rings movies, which I still consider to be great movies set in a fully realized fictional world that I wanted to see more of. But The Matrix Reloaded was the first time I actively rejected the idea of world building in fiction. It was the first time I really critically asked myself what's the point of meeting all these stupid new characters like the French guy and seeing new places that weren't even mentioned in the first movie, which really didn't need expanding. The Matrix sequels occupy a special place of bad for me because of that. Echo Chamber fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 05:46
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Echo Chamber posted:But The Matrix Reloaded was the first time I actively rejected the idea of world building in fiction. It was the first time I really critically asked myself what's the point of meeting all these stupid new characters like the French guy and seeing new places that weren't even mentioned in the first movie, which really didn't need expanding. The Matrix series is a pretty good case study for the problems with 2 part trilogies.
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Jan 9, 2017 05:57
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I was very disappointed when Edgar Wright got moved off of Ant-Man. While it wasn't bad (Paul Rudd is a treasure) I have NO idea what it would have been like written/directed by Wright and that would be awesome. For Matrix chat, I was pretty "what the fuuuuuck was that?" after Reloaded and went into Revolutions with "well I might as well see this through". I actually really enjoyed the fighting inside Zion though, with the grunts reloading mecha guns and shooting rocket launchers and such. The stuff involving the leadership debating everything was boring as poo poo, though.
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Jan 9, 2017 06:12
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I was in high school when Reloaded came out and loving loved it. Hugo Weaving is charismatic and plays a really great bad guy. Over time the Matrix sequels really don't hold up. Watching the original Matrix is almost infuriating because it was just so loving good and the sequels just dropped the ball so hard.
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Jan 9, 2017 06:18
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I remember the Animatrix stories being way better than the sequels. I should rewatch them again and see if they are actually any good or if I was a dumb young idiot. Especially the one with the abandoned hosed up house in Japan? Had kids with the voice actors from Rugrats?
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Jan 9, 2017 06:42
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KakerMix posted:I remember the Animatrix stories being way better than the sequels. I should rewatch them again and see if they are actually any good or if I was a dumb young idiot. I really wish they would have pushed the ideas hinted at in the 2nd Renaissance, where machines don't actively hate us, we're just super babies about them and they just want to coexist. That's interesting to me. Robots keeping us in VR colonies because we went all scorched earth on them, and they can coexist with us this way.
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Jan 9, 2017 06:46
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The second movie was so goddamn awful to watch I honestly at this moment am amazed when people say "I only saw the third because, well, might as well see this through..." Well I slammed my dick in a car door but it's still attached. Might as well see this thing through.
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Jan 9, 2017 06:47
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The Archaic posted:I was in high school when Reloaded came out and loving loved it. Hugo Weaving is charismatic and plays a really great bad guy. 
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Jan 9, 2017 06:51
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The issue is is that the Matrix has this script just bursting with double-meanings and religious allegories. There's tons of philosophical back-and-forths in the original Matrix, and it's clearly a meditation on the nature of reality, religion, man's place in the world and the consequences of our actions thus far, just as much as it is an action movie. It has a script that's really smart, and is communicating ideas you'd never in a million years expect to see in an action movie that sold itself on slow motion. It's a visual tour-de-force with a pretty cool story to go with it. The logistics of human-batteries aside, the purpose of the story is clear, and there's multiple layers to be peeled apart and examined in many of its various and iconic scenes. The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions were like that except that they fired the guy who made all the words sound nice and now you have a five minute monologue by Colonel Sanders that is both literally and figuratively meaningless (communicating nothing except for the implication that Jesus and his Apostles were the original incarnations of the One, something already suggested by the first movie). There's no depth, there's no substance, and by the end the plot's gone totally off the rails and there's a Dragonball Z-style punch fight in some city someplace. The Animatrix is the sequel that the Matrix truly deserved: a series of thoughtful, interesting and of course visually striking short stories that all helped explore some of the deeper concepts at work. The way reality functions in the Matrix is toyed with; the history between men and machines is explained in lurid visual detail, and above all pretty much every story in it is kind of its own thing. The One is important, but there's more to the world than just his story. They try to expand their own vision themselves and somehow failed miserably.
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Jan 9, 2017 06:58
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Krinkle posted:The second movie was so goddamn awful to watch I honestly at this moment am amazed when people say "I only saw the third because, well, might as well see this through..." Don't kinkshame plz Also in the Animatrix I liked the 2 part history of the war, that was pretty interesting. Also legit disturbing.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:03
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Matrix Sequels didn't feel like the original matrix at all The original was about discovery of this whole new world and then a desperate (like, really desperate) struggle to fight the system. Right up until the end the crew was just trying to survive. The big primary action sequence is them jailbreaking a friend of theirs and then Neo almost accidentally becomes a god right at the end AFTER HE IS SHOT AND KILLED Reloaded was about uh, keys and doors and uh, Neo fighting bad CGI smiths Revolutions was a bout a very weird mech war?? And then Neo is absorbed by Smith or something and Smith explodes and I dont care anymore
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Jan 9, 2017 07:03
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Revolutions was about how all the other movies were actually pointless.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:05
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I always thought it was really weird how much kung-fu fighting Neo continued to do in Reloaded. I get that it was the main action draw of the first film, but the ending seemed to imply that it wouldn't be necessary. Hell, Morpheus telegraphed that concept with his "You won't have to" line. I don't even remember him being particularly good at it, but I haven't seen those movies in a long while. Replacing the kung-fu fighting with Dragonball Z fighting was not any better. I did like the Animatrix a lot though.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:13
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Animatrix also sucked.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:16
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CaptainFish posted:I always thought it was really weird how much kung-fu fighting Neo continued to do in Reloaded. I get that it was the main action draw of the first film, but the ending seemed to imply that it wouldn't be necessary. Hell, Morpheus telegraphed that concept with his "You won't have to" line. I don't even remember him being particularly good at it, but I haven't seen those movies in a long while I kind of agree. Smith was still bound by the rules of the Matrix and Neo wasn't. He should been a One-Punch Man in that fight and completely end the whole thing in one blow. Yet we got this awkward CGI brawl instead where nobody can really be killed so there's really no tension. The true tension comes from the mortal vulnerable crew mates in his ship and other ships. That's why the highway chase scene probably stands out as the best scene in either sequels. Morpheus and Trinity could very well be killed here. Neo can loving fly. Also why can't the machines reverse engineer the loving sky? Surely that would have been a priority for the solar energy they could have benefited from, and from all that computing power surely they could have come up with a solution.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:20
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The Matrix films would have been better if Neo died in the first five minutes.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:42
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Atlas Hugged posted:Yeah they were released back to back along with the video game Enter the Matrix and the Animatrix. The Matrix MMO came out a year or so later as a sequel to Revolutions. I appreciate the ambition of the project, but seriously a movie needs to work as an independent movie and can't require the audience to have digested and made connections with six different mediums to make sense. Enter the Matrix was a hilarious game. It had the worst animations I have ever seen. But really, the Wachowskis are like M. Night, they happened to make a good movie by accident.
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Jan 9, 2017 11:05
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temple posted:Marvel movies work because they hit the right chord at the right time. There is no mystery or genius about it. It was a long time in the coming but people were ready for light hearted action movies they could take their kids to. As seen with the superman, spiderman, and BvS films, people don't care about serious heroes any more but those films would have been massive 20 years ago. Movies like Batman and Robin, The Last Action Hero, and more were family friendly action films but they didn't click because adults saw them as childish. Eventually, the 80's-90s man children was grew up, started having kids, and there was a huge niche that no one had exploited since Indiana Jones. Pixar also had a huge hand in creating a market for witty family films that prepared the way for their live action counterparts. Marvel movies to me are more like old Star Trek episodes than any previous super hero movies.
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Jan 9, 2017 14:05
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Enter the Matrix and The Animatrix are the only good Matrix movies. Guardians of the galaxy is the best matrix movie of the past decade.
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Jan 9, 2017 14:15
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What in the hell does Guardians of the Galaxy have to do with the Matrix?
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Jan 9, 2017 15:04
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FedEx Mercury posted:What in the hell does Guardians of the Galaxy have to do with the Matrix? It's a joke. A play on "GotG is the best Star Wars movie in a long time."
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Jan 9, 2017 15:08
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GotG had nothing going for it except an 80s nostalgia soundtrack. It's a meandering trek with one note characters who mostly do nothing, a Deus ex machina conflict resolution, a villain with almost no presence, world building for future movies irrelevant to the film you're watching, and the introduction of your universe's big bad making him look lazy, impotent, incompetent, or some combination thereof, with no good reason for him to actually be in the movie.
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Jan 9, 2017 15:12
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greatn posted:GotG had nothing going for it except an 80s nostalgia soundtrack. It's a meandering trek with one note characters who mostly do nothing, a Deus ex machina conflict resolution, a villain with almost no presence, world building for future movies irrelevant to the film you're watching, and the introduction of your universe's big bad making him look lazy, impotent, incompetent, or some combination thereof, with no good reason for him to actually be in the movie. Thank you, I feel like a crazy person when people gush over Guardians.
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Jan 9, 2017 15:13
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Sorry my jokes are so bad, we can't all be as charismatic and funny as Mike Stoklasa.
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Jan 9, 2017 15:14
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greatn posted:GotG had nothing going for it except an 80s nostalgia soundtrack. It's a meandering trek with one note characters who mostly do nothing, a Deus ex machina conflict resolution, a villain with almost no presence, world building for future movies irrelevant to the film you're watching, and the introduction of your universe's big bad making him look lazy, impotent, incompetent, or some combination thereof, with no good reason for him to actually be in the movie. It's sci-fi though, how many decent sci-fi adventure movie do we get in a decade? Like three maybe.
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Jan 9, 2017 15:18
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FedEx Mercury posted:It's sci-fi though, how many decent sci-fi adventure movie do we get in a decade? Like three maybe. We've had more than that this decade already.
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Jan 9, 2017 15:20
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The thing that stood out for me in the Matrix sequels was the really odd script choices. One that really sticks out to me was the orgasm cake. The Merovingian goes on this long rambling speech about cause and effect. Then the lady gets up, I think to go get some air or something. Then the Merovingian says he doesn't care about what Morpheus and co are doing and then he says he's going to the toilet to piss. His wife then helps Neo rescue the key maker, shoots one of his goons and tells the other one to go to women's bathroom to find her husband and tell him what she's done. He arrives after Neo and friends bust the key maker out of his cell and his wife says it's revenge for him getting a blow job in the toilets. So it's implied he went into the toilet with the orgasm cake lady. Why is any of this in the film? It doesn't have any bearing on the rest of the movie or Revolutions. Does the cause and effect speech have any pay off? I don't remember.
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Jan 9, 2017 15:25
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ultrabindu posted:Does the cause and effect speech have any pay off? I don't remember. Which door Neo chooses at the end and why he does it. Trinity is the cause, Neo's choice is the effect. But the orgasm pie itself is dumb and pointless.
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