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Liquid Communism posted:I can't believe you let this blatantly racist poo poo fly under the radar. Not to contradict your point, just to speak alongside it, but do remember that the author's name is Eliezer Shlomo Yudkowsky. There's some none-too-subtle ethnic posturing going on here.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:26
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Cavelcade posted:He appeals to some smart people by giving them an internal justification for feeling superior to those around them. He's also pretty good at arguing a point if you don't know much about the subject matter. And from there it's a cult - sorry, phyg - of personality where people talk about the intellectual biases of others while ignoring the way they commit them themselves. It's not particularly interesting, but it is pretty funny. I mean we prefer to use the term 'emerging religion' now rather than Cult because it's considered too pejorative in a modern context but once you've got a firm vision of apocalypse, resurrection of the dead, eternal life, salvation, and even damnation in among your belief system it's fine to call it a religion.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:33
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Milky Moor posted:You see it with Wildbow's Worm stuff, too. It's a superhero universe that feels really unique and modern with a cast of interesting characters - but the fans only care about how uber the protagonist is and writing AU fanfic (or crossover fanfic or fetishbait fanfic). This is especially sad, since a big part of the story is how the MC's power is kinda wimpy compared to the people that can shoot lasers, be invincible, turn into dragons, etc. They love it so much, and yet miss the point.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:58
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Dienes posted:This is especially sad, since a big part of the story is how the MC's power is kinda wimpy compared to the people that can shoot lasers, be invincible, turn into dragons, etc. They love it so much, and yet miss the point. I never really understood the idea that having essentially perfect perception miles in radius was wimpy. Then again Wildbow didn't really ever use that, just opting to turn it into 'Bug Magic' rather than doing anything clever.
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Jan 5, 2017 19:04
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Liquid Communism posted:I can't believe you let this blatantly racist poo poo fly under the radar. Added Space posted:Starting by citing foreigners and Jews as superior students is not exactly promising, but at this point we just have to accept our main character has some socially inappropriate beliefs. Looks like someone has a case of selective reading bias.  It's already been established that this character is a mild racist, I'm not going to flip out every time he says something a little stupid.
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Jan 5, 2017 20:05
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Added Space posted:It's already been established that this author is a mild racist, I'm not going to flip out every time he says something a little stupid. ftfy
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Jan 5, 2017 20:38
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Dienes posted:This is especially sad, since a big part of the story is how the MC's power is kinda wimpy compared to the people that can shoot lasers, be invincible, turn into dragons, etc. They love it so much, and yet miss the point. It does make me wonder what the Worm re-edit will look like, given that the fanbase is hugely those sorts of people. Tunicate posted:I never really understood the idea that having essentially perfect perception miles in radius was wimpy. Well, her power was never quite perfect perception in the beginning, that's what it became later. Initially, it was just 'bug control in x radius', which then became 'bug magic', which then became 'bug magic AND perfect perception/multi-tasking'. Like how Tattletale went from having a power that could be stymied by wrong input or assumptions, then she becomes a walking deus ex machina plot device. That's kind of what happens with the whole text, really. Interesting street-level ideas get blown out to ridiculous extremes due to unending, ceaseless escalation towards the cosmic-scale. And a lot of the ideas - for example, the unwritten gun rule - fail to survive any scrutiny and get handwaved with 'a conspiracy from outside time and space made things that way'. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 00:43
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The Shortest Path posted:It's already been established that this author is a mild racist, I'm not going to flip out every time he says something a little stupid. I mean isn't pointing out and mocking the stupid the whole point of this? Otherwise reading and summarizing hundreds of thousands of words for its plot seems incredibly painful The author couldn't be bother to reread this dreck once he finished writing it to edit it, so why should you bother to read it seriously?
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Jan 6, 2017 01:29
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Her power is bug control in the same way that Magneto's is the ability to bend spoons.Cavelcade posted:He appeals to some smart people by giving them an internal justification for feeling superior to those around them. He's also pretty good at arguing a point if you don't know much about the subject matter. And from there it's a cult - sorry, phyg - of personality where people talk about the intellectual biases of others while ignoring the way they commit them themselves. It's not particularly interesting, but it is pretty funny. It's a phyg 
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Jan 6, 2017 01:41
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Her power is bug control in the same way that Magneto's is the ability to bend spoons. Its literally controlling bugs in a 6-block radius for 90% of the novel.
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Jan 6, 2017 02:07
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Dienes posted:Its literally controlling bugs in a 6-block radius for 90% of the novel. Almost. The frequently-used ability of her spiders to near-instantly produce metres and metres of impossibly strong webbing was a total rear end-pull. (Pun very intended.)
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Jan 6, 2017 03:49
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Dienes posted:Its literally controlling bugs in a 6-block radius for 90% of the novel. Do you just ignore all the parts where she knows where everything and everyone in a several block radius around her is at all times?
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Jan 6, 2017 03:55
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The Shortest Path posted:Do you just ignore all the parts where she knows where everything and everyone in a several block radius around her is at all times? Eh, you're rounding up the quality of her perception through bugs quite a bit. The perception is consistently described as 'fuzzy' and pretty unreliable. She can't understand words or tone of voice through the bugs, for example. Wildbow said that she needs a hell of a lot of bugs concentrated in one location, concentration, and additional context clues beyond her bugs input to get a clear picture. That's not some magical bug radar that tells her everything for a 6 block radius.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:09
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Dienes posted:Its literally controlling bugs in a 6-block radius for 90% of the novel. And the scale and degree of control is what makes it powerful, same as Magneto. The actual story never makes her seems as underpowered or outmatched as some of the fans do.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:19
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Eh, the comparison doesn't fit. Magneto's power is some kind of absurdly potent control over and awareness of magnetic forces. At its basic level, being able to manipulate electromagnetism is far more potent than 'controlling bugs in a 6-block radius'. Taylor's strength comes from her ability to think around situations and apply her power to soft targets (sometimes literally). For example, shoving bugs inside Armsmaster's helmet. As a whole though, Taylor is one of the poorer parts of Worm and part of that is because her ability to think around problems is replaced by just being able to magic up things with her bugs and/or the post-hoc justification that her power is actually some kind of super administration ability. edit: Similar to the WoG justification that Dragon's power isn't the fact that she's an AI or a Tinker who can reverse-engineer existing technology, she's a Thinker who can make Tinker equipment. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 04:32
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NihilCredo posted:Harriezer said that 1904 was "more than two centuries after science had gotten started". The Scientific Revolution is generally considered to encompass the developments between Galileo (early-mid 17th century) and Newton (late 17th century). Looks fine to me. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 04:44
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Science started about the time primitive hominids tried doing the same thing multiple times with a conscious desire to learn about the results. Chipping bits off of flint this way instead of that way made a knife sharper, so you try making more knives that way, and hey it wasn't a fluke! Figuring out the complicated steps to building a successful fire from scratch was some dedicated experimentation. Science has gotten a lot more organized since then, but the basics have always been in our nature.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:22
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worm seems cool but apparently it's comically difficult to find an epub or mobi of it and that drastically reduces my desire to read it.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:24
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Cat Army 
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Chapter 25: Hold Off on Proposing SolutionsHPMOR posted:Note: Since the science in this story is usually all correct, I include a warning that in Ch. 22-25 Harry overlooks many possibilities, the most important of which is that there are lots of magical genes but they're all on one chromosome (which wouldn't happen naturally, but the chromosome might have been engineered). In this case, the inheritance pattern would be Mendelian, but the magical chromosome could still be degraded by chromosomal crossover with its nonmagical homologue. (Harry has read about Mendel and chromosomes in science history books, but he hasn't studied enough actual genetics to know about chromosomal crossover. Hey, he's only eleven.) However, although a modern science journal would find a lot more nits to pick, everything Harry presents as strong evidence is in fact strong evidence - the other possibilities are improbable. Welp. Make of that what you will. Anyone want to fact check this one? For some reason this chapter is split up into "Acts" that are listed in random order. Last chapter was Act 3. gently caress this postmodern, out of place nonsense, I'm listing them in order. Act 1: quote:"A reason? " said the old wizard. He restrained the fury from his face. The boy before him had been the victim, and certainly did not need to be frightened any further. "There is nothing that can excuse -" I am moderately curious what Harry thinks 'redeem' means in this context. There's nothing suggesting he wants Draco to be more moral or ethical. Act 2: Harry is contemplating genetics and his Wizard Gene hypothesis. quote:Magic came from somewhere else. That question seems perilously close to affirming the consequent. Harry is falling into the trap he warned Hermione about on the train, where he's so in favor of his pet theory that he's looking only for things that confirm it. quote:And yet magic itself seemed pretty complicated. A door-locking spell would prevent the door from opening and prevent you from Transfiguring the hinges and resist Finite Incantatem and Alohomora. Many elements all pointing in the same direction: you could call that goal-orientation, or in simpler language, purposefulness.  Or rather, Atlantis. They must have made the source of magic and programmed it to act the way that it did. quote:The chain of logic was inexorable. Harriezer is overwhelmed by the scope of this problem and decides he should concentrate on immortality first. quote:"Excuse me," said an expected voice from behind him in very unexpected tones. "At your convenience, Mr. Malfoy requests the favor of a conversation." Never, EVER deny Harry the pleasure of reducing people to stereotypes. It's the only way he can relate to them. Act 3:  Act 4: Harry meets with the Weasley twins to commission them for a prank. Lee Jordan shows himself as the smartest person we've seen so far by bailing immediately. The idea is to gaslight Rita Skeeter into writing a bad story to discredit her. To be fair, Harry has been in the magical world for less then a month and probably doesn't realize she's already a tabloid sensationalist. quote:"I can't think of anything," said George. Good advice and decent social psychology. However, the author should have picked a better subject. Fred and George are some of the most elaborate and creative planners in canon, and here they're just tossed under the Knight Bus to give Harriezer yet another chance to exposit at the audience. Harry gives them the stack of money he got from Draco and tells them not to involve Quirrell. They immediately decide to start a hit piece of Quirrell and move on to planning what they'll do for Harry. Act 5: Fred and George are going to meet with their supplier, Mr. Ambrosius Flume, at Honeyduke's. quote:"Still on the fritz," said George. I have no clue what they're talking about. Act 6: Rita Skeeter has published her hit piece on Quirrell and is on to the next scandal when she runs into the man himself in a dark alley. He demands she print a retraction but she tells him off. quote:Quirrell stared at her for a moment. FORESHADO yeah he's going to murder her and this entire plot thread goes nowhere. Added Space fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 06:05
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Shockingly, Yud doesn't know enough biology to make accurate assertions of probability. If there are lots of magical genes, one of the mechanisms that might have produced them would be sequence duplications, which often produces a family of genes all in a row on one chromosome. This is actually extremely common. Harriezer's conception of why Muggleborns wouldn't exist if magic was a complicated system is stupid and reminiscent of arguments for intelligent design. Often in biology, half a working system is still better than none at all and provides a fitness advantage, so it could easily be the case that only a few magic genes are actually all that rare in the Muggle population, but the whole biological magic mechanism is complicated. This is stupid.
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Jan 6, 2017 06:53
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According to Rowling, Muggleborns are actually on average stronger. This would indicate that magic is a combination of genetic and environmental factors - wizardborns have all the environmental magical poo poo going for them, so really weak ones can eke over the threshold for casting spells. Muggleborn only get noticed if they beat that threshold on pure genetics alone, and then once introduced to the magical community they gradually gain the same environmental benefits.
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Jan 6, 2017 07:55
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Just like Gohan
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Jan 6, 2017 08:07
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Milky Moor posted:It does make me wonder what the Worm re-edit will look like, given that the fanbase is hugely those sorts of people. The ones who bothered with Pact and Twig have mostly thought he did better with those. I expect Worm 2 will be as if millions of fanon voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. It'll be the indie equivalent of the EU decanonisation. (still read almost nothing ever but Worm fics, tralala) The Iron Rose posted:worm seems cool but apparently it's comically difficult to find an epub or mobi of it and that drastically reduces my desire to read it. The author specifically doesn't want such a thing available as he fears it being bootlegged.
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Jan 6, 2017 10:06
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divabot posted:The ones who bothered with Pact and Twig have mostly thought he did better with those. Pact had another amazing world but it had way more fight scenes and non-stop escalation. I liked the world of Pact much more than the story. Couldn't get into Twig. quote:I expect Worm 2 will be as if millions of fanon voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. It'll be the indie equivalent of the EU decanonisation. Absolutely. It'll be fun to see. quote:The author specifically doesn't want such a thing available as he fears it being bootlegged. And that it'd affect the ability to get Worm published. It would probably also suck to have a 'super first draft' of any published story out there. I remember John Dies at the End pulling the (somewhat superior) version from the web when David Wong got it published in print.
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Jan 6, 2017 10:21
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divabot posted:The ones who bothered with Pact and Twig have mostly thought he did better with those. Oh I know. But something tells me a 1.7 million word behemoth isn't getting published anytime soon, and it's super annoying to have to ask individual people for their manually scraped epub or mobi. Just put a download on your site and remove it if you ever get published, Christ.
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Jan 6, 2017 14:24
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I have no idea why Slytherin forging the security system the Marauder's Map is based on is something that Yud felt necessary to include, or why he had to change it at all. Very strange.Doctor Spaceman posted:It's a phyg Read again - I corrected my foolish mistake of calling Less Wrong a cult, when it is of course a phyg.
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Jan 6, 2017 14:24
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Cavelcade posted:I have no idea why Slytherin forging the security system the Marauder's Map is based on is something that Yud felt necessary to include, or why he had to change it at all. Very strange. quote:Read again - I corrected my foolish mistake of calling Less Wrong a cult, when it is of course a phyg. Oops. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 14:29
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Maybe Yud decided that the map seems like a "Slytherin" sort of thing to make, so obviously it is the only possible source, following the strict disciplines of logic. Silly original author, why you make so many mistake?
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Jan 6, 2017 16:53
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Cavelcade posted:I have no idea why Slytherin forging the security system the Marauder's Map is based on is something that Yud felt necessary to include, or why he had to change it at all. Very strange. I actually quite like this as a minor point - the whole "Secret Origins of the Marauders' Map" is the sort of expansion on canon material that fanfic can often do very well. The Map itself is plot-breakingly powerful (hence why Harry has to give it to "Professor Moody" partway through Goblet of Fire so as to not give the whole thing away), so I've always thought it reasonably apporpriate that it might be a repurposed ancient artifact rather than just something thrown together by four students, especially since Hogwarts is supposed to be Unplottable. There are a ton of terrible ideas in this fic, but I wouldn't count this as one of them.
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Jan 6, 2017 17:52
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inflatablefish posted:I actually quite like this as a minor point - the whole "Secret Origins of the Marauders' Map" is the sort of expansion on canon material that fanfic can often do very well. The Map itself is plot-breakingly powerful (hence why Harry has to give it to "Professor Moody" partway through Goblet of Fire so as to not give the whole thing away), so I've always thought it reasonably apporpriate that it might be a repurposed ancient artifact rather than just something thrown together by four students, especially since Hogwarts is supposed to be Unplottable. Being unplottable means it can't be placed on a worldmap, it doesn't mean it can't be plotted internally. The four kids who created it also learned to perform animagi(c?) by themselves, so they're not just random chumps. It's not the worst thing in the fic, it's just weird and unnecessary.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:07
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Added Space posted:Act 5:
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Jan 7, 2017 03:58
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Chapter 26: Noticing Confusion Here's another subject that I find myself agreeing with. As I've grown in critical thinking, I've found that I've become less likely to immediately accept any explanation given. It's a good habit to question how sensible the things you hear and experience are. HPMOR posted:Professor Quirrell's office hours consisted of 11:40 to 11:55 AM on Thursday. That was for all of his students in all years. It cost a Quirrell point just to knock on the door, and if he didn't think your reason was worth his time, you would lose another fifty.  And Harry complained about Snape being a bad teacher? I guess this is neglectful instead of actively malicious, but still.Quirrell is in a bad mood and Harry offers to cheer him up. quote:"A sixth-year Gryffindor cast a curse at one of my more promising students, a sixth-year Slytherin." This is a reference to a scene in Half Blood Prince where Harry casts a spell he learned from Snape's old schoolbook without knowing what it does. This might undermine the whole idea of the Interdict of Merlin, but the interdict only prevents "powerful" magic from being written down and that's never defined. This act along with Hermione brewing polyjuice in the loo are called out as stupid in canon, so I don't know what the point of referencing them here is. quote:The inkwell caught fire in Professor Quirrell's hands and burned with a terrible slowness, hideous black-orange flames tearing at the metal and seeming to take tiny bites from it, the silver twisting as it melted, as though it were trying and failing to escape. There was a tinny shrieking sound, as though the metal were screaming. I think it's nice that these two horrible sociopaths have formed a bond. If nothing else they surely deserve each other. The real reason Harry came by is to schedule a man date on Sunday to look for Occlumency teachers. Sunday morning comes with everyone giggling about a story about Harry in the paper. He's his usual peevish self, shouting at everyone until he manages to snag a copy from a Diagon Alley bookstore. quote:The headline read: Quirrell comes by and makes a big scene about how shocking this story is and how it absolutely must be true. Harry just smirks and says he contracted the work to an unnamed student. I know this fic changes a lot of people, did he make Rita Skeeter a serious and hard nosed journalist and forget to mention it? Last we saw her she was chasing down a rumor about an auror dating her younger coworker, not exactly Pulitzer material.I'm going to be charitable again and say this is an example of the chapter theme and we the audience should be suspicious over how credulous Quirrell is being. quote:"I have a feeling," Harry said finally, "that we're coming at this from the wrong angle. There's a tale I once heard about some students who came into a physics class, and the teacher showed them a large metal plate near a fire. She ordered them to feel the metal plate, and they felt that the metal nearer the fire was cooler, and the metal further away was warmer. And she said, write down your guess for why this happens. So some students wrote down 'because of how the metal conducts heat', and some students wrote down 'because of how the air moves', and no one said 'this just seems impossible', and the real answer was that before the students came into the room, the teacher turned the plate around." You said 'they', Harry, and then confirmed his speculation with your reaction. This is like something out of a cartoon. Also, Harry, you said your number one priority was to investigate mental magic, you've read a book about Occlumency, and yet you haven't heard of memory charms or confundus yet? Rita Skeeter's memory represents a single point of failure that explains everything she wrote. Everything in this chapter is unlikely. I'm confused if this is a brilliant act of metanarrative or just coincidence. They head into Gringott's quote:The first part of the mission, to find an Occlumency instructor, had been a success. Professor Quirrell, smiling evilly, had told Griphook to recommend the best he knew, and not worry about the expense, since Dumbledore was paying it; and the goblin had smiled in return. There might have been a certain amount of smiling on Harry's part as well. Now, here's a better method of pointing out something silly in the books without seeming mean. Goblin banking practices are absolutely antiquated, and it impacts the original books. There's things like the Weasley twins not being able to get a business loan for their joke shop. The legal status of muggles is a constant point of contention. Maybe Yud blew all of his good ideas in the first few chapters and now has to rely on recycling them for decent content. Mary's room is a reference to a thought experiment. Raise Mary from birth in a black and white room while teaching her every academic fact about color and how it's perceived. Then, let her out of the room to experience color. The thought experiment argues for 'qualia', that there is a quality to perceptions aside from their factual content. The room is warded for privacy, but that's not enough for the paranoid Quirrellmort. quote:Professor Quirrell then spoke no fewer than four different Charms, none of which Harry recognized. He's not saying that for Harry's benefit. Quirrell goes all "good job son" about putting one over on Rita Skeeter, saying that she has no doubt disappointed Lucius Malfroy and will now have to flee the country. Once again Harry has acted with malicious intent and no thought at all about the consequences, and starts to get nervous once he's called out. quote:But she would get fired from her job, of course she would be fired, she might have children going through Hogwarts for all Harry knew, and now it was worse, much worse - We've got a Twilight situation on our hands. If the author would just acknowledge that their lead was a horrible, irresponsible person the story would be much more interesting. We'd have a great villain/minion moment here. What we end up with is something cultish and with pedophilic undertones. Quirrell wants to give Harry a stolen book, and Harry is reluctant to take it. quote:"What is it?" breathed Harry. This moment of weakness and the arrival of lunch is enough to soften Harry and he takes the book. quote:Harry opened the book with ingrained, instinctive care. The pages seemed too thick, with a texture unlike either Muggle paper or wizarding parchment. And the contents were... It took rereading this chapter right now for me to realize that this was intended to be a plot twist. We were supposed to think he was offering up the horcrux from Chamber of Secrets. This explains why Harry never seems to read this very cool sounding book and the story completely forgets about it. In a bit of mirroring, we see Quirrelmort making another horcrux using Skeeter's death. Skeeter's murder is telegraphed very well. She was investigating Mary's Room when she ran into Quirrell last chapter; no doubt he was the one who tipped her off to it. He used an ambiguous phrase to signal how she would die. Her animagus form is referenced in the chapter to remind the audience. We see a smooth villain getting away with murder in style, and his young victim being none the wiser. Harry is really dropping the ball, showing that that he can't demonstrate intelligence by putting facts together. He can only succeed when the author passes him notes. Added Space fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 05:30
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Chapter 27: Empathy I think I'm done complimenting this fic for a while. This chapter starts many insufferable plot arcs that last for a long drat time. In the chapter opening Harry is asking the twins how they pulled off their prank. They refuse to answer him, then remind each other that they got memory wiped. They also don't make the obvious leap that someone altered Skeeter's memories. HPMOR posted:Unsurprisingly, Rita Skeeter and the editor of the Daily Prophet had both vanished and were probably in another country by now. They would've liked to be able to tell their family about that part. Dad would have congratulated them, they thought, after Mum had finished killing them and Ginny had burned the remains. This is a densely concentrated ball of stupid. I'm excusing Dumbledore, who has good reasons for everything he does. Otherwise, I count seven idiots committing an uncountable number of inexplicable actions. You could play along and count for yourself, but that would raise the total to eight idiots. We then have a hard scene transition to Harry's Occlumency lessons. quote:A human mind, Harry's Occlumency book had said, was only exposed to a Legilimens along certain surfaces. If you failed to defend your surfaces, the Legilimens would go through and be able to access any part of you which their own mind was able to comprehend... I've only had entry level psychological training, but this certainly sounds like bullshit. If people were only capable of guessing what other people would do based on their own reactions, social manipulators would not get very far at all. quote:And then Harry turned into someone else entirely, someone who had seemed appropriate to the occasion. Aww, Harry thought he wasn't stupidly overconfident this time. That's almost cute. More padding and another hard scene change back to Hogwarts. Harriezer is salty due to Quidditch scores being added to the house cup run. quote:"We should kill them," Harry said to Hermione, who was walking beside him with an equally offended air. I like the Hermione who has dedicated herself to hanging out with Harriezer and endlessly trolling him. quote:"I don't suppose you could explain," Severus said dryly, "why the two of you were plotting to murder Cho Chang?" He's actually showing respect for someone, and all it took was a offhand comment that "people like sports"? This whole "I know you know I know" nonsense is like the video game logic version of social interaction. Harry even thinks of it in terms of "levels". Quoting from later in this chapter: quote:(Professor Quirrell had remarked over their lunch that Harry really needed to conceal his state of mind better than putting on a blank face when someone discussed a dangerous topic, and had explained about one-level deceptions, two-level deceptions, and so on. So either Severus was in fact modeling Harry as a one-level player, which made Severus himself two-level, and Harry's three-level move had been successful; or Severus was a four-level player and wanted Harry to think the deception had been successful. Harry, smiling, had asked Professor Quirrell what level he played at, and Professor Quirrell, also smiling, had responded, One level higher than you.) It is physically painful to watch these idiots natter at each other. Snape pulls Harry aside and dangles another chance to gently caress up. quote:Severus was watching Harry intently. "You said once in the Headmaster's office that you would not tolerate bullying or abuse. And so I wonder, Harry Potter. Just how much do you resemble your father?" Lesath is the son of Bellatrix, and the Gryffindors are dumb jocks. Snape gives Harry a time and place and we go there to see Lesath dangling out a window. Someone goes to help him - and it turns out to be Neville, who Harry has decided to involve as another misguided attempt to 'fix' him. The bullies are not impressed. quote:"I think he's a traitor," said one of the other Gryffindors, and there was a sudden sinking sensation in Neville's stomach. I've been bullied, I've seen other bullied, and I've had to deal with bullies as a teacher. None of them sounded even remotely like this. Bullies are a complex topic, but they are rarely morally zealous crusaders who will attack anyone who questions them. If nothing else people are lazy and will generally back off if someone calls them on their actions. We've swapped genres from mystery to revenge. Harry Potter vs All The Dumb Bullies is a plot cancer that goes nowhere and results in no-one learning any sort of moral lesson. Neville does a bit of stage acting to "summon" Harry who was waiting in the wings. quote:"Ahem," said Harry Potter from behind them, leaning against the wall by the window, in the dead end of the hallway, where nobody could possibly have gotten to without being seen. This is sort of a good point. Harry and Neville both grew up without their biological parents and have some amount of moral authority here. Of course, they're going to completely ignore that and resolve this through threats. quote:"So Lessy snarked to you," said the ringleader coldly. You mean narc, you idiot. "Snark" is a portmanteau of "snide remark" and Harriezer hasn't used snark any time in my memory. Harry bluffs and blusters until the bullies run off. He and Neville are happy, but Lesath isn't. quote:"You think you know how it is?" said Lesath, his voice high and shaking. "You think you know? My parents are in Azkaban, I try not to think about it and they always remind me, they think it's great that Mother is there in the cold and the dark with the Dementors sucking away her life, I wish I was like Harry Potter, at least his parents aren't hurting, my parents are always hurting, every second of every day, I wish I was like you, at least you can see your parents sometimes, at least you know they loved you, if Mother ever loved me the Dementors will have eaten that thought by now -" I... don't even know. Terrible staged incident that relies on Harry not knowing what humans sound like? The author not knowing what people sound like? This whole scene is absurd melodrama. Harry tries to explain all the stunts he pulled were staged, but Lesath gets pissed, insults him and runs off. quote:"He thought I could help him," Harry said, his voice hoarse. "He had hope for the first time in years." I'm convinced that Harriezer is against bullies out of jealousy. He wants to be the one with all the power to push people around and force them to do what he thinks is right and just. Snape rolls in and he and Harry engage in more 'clever' back and forth, until Snape poses a hypothetical. quote:"I should like to ask your advice about something," Severus said, his voice casual. "I know of another fifth-year Slytherin who was being bullied by Gryffindors. He was wooing a beautiful Muggleborn girl, who came across him being bullied, and tried to rescue him. And he called her a mudblood, and that was the end for them. He apologized, many times, but she never forgave him. Have you any thoughts for what he could have said or done, to win from her the forgiveness you gave Lestrange?" There's only one woman in the situation so clearly she's to blame! This is some PUA poo poo right here. "I insulted this bitch and she got all offended, she's so shallow." quote:"So," Harry said. "Did I pass your test, whatever it was?" Ha! Suck it, dumbass! Continue to not learn the simple lesson to not run your drat mouth. quote:"Your books betrayed you, Potter," said Severus, still in that voice stretched tight by a million tons of pull. "They did not tell you the one thing you needed to know. You cannot learn from stories what it is like to lose the one you love. That is something you could never understand without feeling it yourself." Harry, desperate to think about any other subject than improving his own annoying cocksure behavior, thinks about how his parents were jerks for a moment before settling on Azkaban. quote:Lesath would be imagining himself in his mother's place, in the cold and the darkness and the fear, alone with all of her worst memories, even in her dreams, every second of every day. Ok, I can appreciate that Harry wants to make a positive change in his world. Bullying is traumatic, and prisons are morally questionable for all sorts of reasons. However, with all his supposed knowledge of psychology and cleverness, the only solution he can think of is to gain overwhelming power and force everyone to do things his way. He's more morally reprehensible than anyone he's fighting; the only difference is that he doesn't yet have the power to commit the atrocities he wants to. Our Hero. Open question because I think it's interesting: Does Bellatrix LeStrange, a woman who tortured, murdered, and often both at once deserve a life sentence in Azkaban? A place of unending misery and slowly failing health? Added Space fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 06:49
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To generalize: is a bad act performed to punish a bad person good? That's a really complicated question, and one that underlies the entire field of criminal justice. An Azkaban sentence, even a relatively short one, is often fatal, so the Azkaban case is an exaggeration of the death penalty case: is capital punishment ethical, and if so is it ethical for the method of execution to be torturous? The argument Harrieizer seems to be making is that Azkaban, which is state-sponsored murder via torture, is an atrocity, which it is, and that there is no benefit (as a deterrent, as a way to prevent recidivism, etc.) that could possibly justify it existing. The real-world question of whether state-sponsored murder is ethical or not is probably a little outside the scope of this thread, but there's been plenty of debate on the topic for quite some time.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:49
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As presented in either the books or MOR or any of the other fanfics I've read, Azkaban is several orders of magnitude beyond "cruel and unusual" and the people responsible for it being the standard of imprisonment should be fired into the sun. I normally do not in any way advocate for the death penalty, and yet I would put that well before sticking people, including Bellatrix who is arguably the most abhorrent character in the story, into what amounts to a torture chamber for years and years. That said, the way it's handled in this is really, really dumb.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:52
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Yud posted:(Professor Quirrell had remarked over their lunch that Harry really needed to conceal his state of mind better than putting on a blank face when someone discussed a dangerous topic, and had explained about one-level deceptions, two-level deceptions, and so on. So either Severus was in fact modeling Harry as a one-level player, which made Severus himself two-level, and Harry's three-level move had been successful; or Severus was a four-level player and wanted Harry to think the deception had been successful. Harry, smiling, had asked Professor Quirrell what level he played at, and Professor Quirrell, also smiling, had responded, One level higher than you.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EkBuKQEkio
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Jan 9, 2017 08:00
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Added Space posted:Aww, Harry thought he wasn't stupidly overconfident this time. That's almost cute. Added Space posted:I like the Hermione who has dedicated herself to hanging out with Harriezer and endlessly trolling him. Added Space posted:Harry Potter vs All The Dumb Bullies is a plot cancer that goes nowhere and results in no-one learning any sort of moral lesson. Added Space posted:I'm convinced that Harriezer is against bullies out of jealousy. He wants to be the one with all the power to push people around and force them to do what he thinks is right and just. HPatMoR posted:He was wooing a beautiful Muggleborn girl, who came across him being bullied, and tried to rescue him. HPatMoR posted:Open question because I think it's interesting: Does Bellatrix LeStrange, a woman who tortured, murdered, and often both at once deserve a life sentence in Azkaban? A place of unending misery and slowly failing health? I'm not sure, but I think The Princess Bride actually gets referenced at some point in HPatMoR, so it's weird that the version of deception and manipulation it advocates is the ridiculous and obviously flawed version that Vizzini uses.
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Jan 9, 2017 09:06
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Since no-one's pointed it out yet, "Lesath" is a completely new character that in the end contributes nothing to the story besides this instance, and I think one more. Also, the MoR version of occlumency is incredibly dumb, and gets worse with the first 'powerup' to it the character gets, fairly soonish.
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Jan 9, 2017 09:16
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Harry knows Yomi
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Jan 9, 2017 09:16
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| # ? May 17, 2024 01:27 |
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i found yuds authors notes archived yud's authors notes posted:Author's Notes for Ch. 27, 'Empathy': Included mostly because I found this funny. Yud WAS an obnoxious CTY kid.
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Jan 9, 2017 09:22
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