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PostNouveau posted:My coworkers would probably poison my coffee if I bought a device specifically for making clicking noises more often. And they'd be right to do it. might i interest you in mynew invention, an orb into which you place your hand with the clicky thing. it has a padded cuff and sound-insulating technology derived From NASA® you can kickstart it for only $45 for Guaranteed® delivery by April of 20XX.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:38
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Cross it with the pain box from Dune and you have yourself a deal.
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Jan 8, 2017 20:45
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that's the next unlockable reward tier, a pooryl wired 'hand warmer' that periodically shocks you
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Jan 8, 2017 20:48
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duTrieux. posted:20XX the anime year duTrieux. posted:that's the next unlockable reward tier, a pooryl wired 'hand warmer' that periodically shocks you i would buy this tbh
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Jan 8, 2017 21:30
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Sagebrush posted:i doubt they filed for any patents at all, and in this case it's just an example of foreign manufacturers undercutting westerners. but nearly every product these days that's any good gets a quarter-price 100% shamelessly ripped off chinese copy within weeks of its appearance. earlier this year there was the case where that selfie stick iphone case was copied and on sale before the kickstarter for it had even closed. "selfie stick iphone case" sounds like yet another thing that would never get meaningful IP protection on account of both obviousness and copious prior art.
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Jan 8, 2017 21:33
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Sagebrush posted:i doubt they filed for any patents at all, and in this case it's just an example of foreign manufacturers undercutting westerners. but nearly every product these days that's any good gets a quarter-price 100% shamelessly ripped off chinese copy within weeks of its appearance. earlier this year there was the case where that selfie stick iphone case was copied and on sale before the kickstarter for it had even closed. so what kind of intellectual property rights should the chinese government, in your mind, enforce here
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Jan 9, 2017 02:00
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fart simpson posted:so what kind of intellectual property rights should the chinese government, in your mind, enforce here "stop bein a dick you guys"
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Jan 9, 2017 03:09
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Sagebrush posted:"stop bein a dick you guys" maybe people should start trying to sell things that a random guy in a factory can't copy exactly by glancing over the description on a web page
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Jan 9, 2017 03:12
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Sagebrush posted:"stop bein a dick you guys" Nobody is compelling these dumb accessory makers to use chinese manufacturing companies
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Jan 9, 2017 03:13
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Jan 9, 2017 04:07
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Malleum posted:Nobody is compelling these dumb accessory makers to use chinese manufacturing companies do you think the accessory designers include a "don't use our manufacturing templates and production line to create identical widgets you sell to someone else" clause in their contracts with the factory? because that's both the sort of thing you might expect a government to help enforce, and also the sort of thing a kickstarter createrer might not even think about ("I just need to get them to make me this many units, right?") and then get blindsided when it happens
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Jan 9, 2017 04:13
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Jabor posted:do you think the accessory designers include a "don't use our manufacturing templates and production line to create identical widgets you sell to someone else" clause in their contracts with the factory? you'd have to be pretty dumb not to expect knockoffs when you're producing stuff in china
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Jan 9, 2017 04:17
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fishmech posted:maybe people should start trying to sell things that a random guy in a factory can't copy exactly by glancing over the description on a web page mlyp 
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Jan 9, 2017 04:18
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Jabor posted:do you think the accessory designers include a "don't use our manufacturing templates and production line to create identical widgets you sell to someone else" clause in their contracts with the factory? a clause like that only protects you from that specific factory from selling knockoffs. any other factory you didn't sign a contract with can make whatever they want unless you've filed for an invention or design patent
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Jan 9, 2017 05:03
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you could likely start producing knockoff fidget cubes in a factory inside the united states unless they filed for patents. china has nothing to do with it except chinese factories are really good at quickly spinning up production of cheap, easy to manufacture crap like the fidget cube
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Jan 9, 2017 05:05
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Jan 9, 2017 06:38
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wow
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Jan 9, 2017 06:41
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*little kelly in the corner* 'theyre already hungry for more'
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Jan 9, 2017 06:44
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fart simpson posted:a clause like that only protects you from that specific factory from selling knockoffs. any other factory you didn't sign a contract with can make whatever they want unless you've filed for an invention or design patent but why would they make something on their own when they can just run a second shift on the original production line and claim it's an entirely separate business enterprise with no connection to the first factory's beneficial owners since the courts don't really work in china, people get pretty loving shameless about contract terms
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Jan 9, 2017 07:24
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PostNouveau posted:My coworkers would probably poison my coffee this wide range of chinese consumer products may interest your coworkers
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Jan 9, 2017 07:44
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:but why would they make something on their own when they can just run a second shift on the original production line and claim it's an entirely separate business enterprise with no connection to the first factory's beneficial owners well if you have an actual good idea you better be filing for patents in addition to getting a good contract with your factory. these kickstarter guys probably do neither
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Jan 9, 2017 08:11
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also everything i hear is saying the courts are getting significantly better in china so the actual value of protecting your ip here might go up in the future so there's no real reason not to do it
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Jan 9, 2017 08:12
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fart simpson posted:well if you have an actual good idea you better be filing for patents in addition to getting a good contract with your factory. these kickstarter guys probably do neither neither patent or contract will help you in china.
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Jan 9, 2017 09:43
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Boiled Water posted:neither patent or contract will help you in china. yes they will
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Jan 9, 2017 09:45
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if anyone is actually interested in this type of thing you should read china law blog
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Jan 9, 2017 10:17
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Agile Vector posted:*little kelly in the corner* 
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Jan 9, 2017 14:19
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:but why would they make something on their own when they can just run a second shift on the original production line and claim it's an entirely separate business enterprise with no connection to the first factory's beneficial owners the courts "work" but they're stacked entirely in favor of chinese buisnesses
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Jan 9, 2017 19:59
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Improbable Lobster posted:the courts "work" but they're stacked entirely in favor of chinese buisnesses doubly so since most chinese enterprises are owned partly or completely by the state
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Jan 9, 2017 20:09
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Improbable Lobster posted:the courts "work" but they're stacked entirely in favor of chinese buisnesses this apparently isn't true and a us companies have about the same win rate vs Chinese businesses as other Chinese businesses. the problem is that there a nearly infinite number of Chinese manufacturers who produce these knock offs, including many small family operations. you can sue one and win but in that time period 20 more will be selling the same thing. if you could catch them early you might have a chance but by the time you see them selling on alibaba each one has already made more units than most of these kickstarters produce for their first round.
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Jan 9, 2017 21:45
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yep. we regularly shut down production of knockoff versions of our products and protect our ip in china and the process basically works ok, you just need to know what you're doing and figure out if it's worth it to spend the time and money to fight each individual case. sometimes it feels like there's thousands of different factories all making knockoffs of the same thing
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Jan 10, 2017 06:10
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i suspect a lot of the stories of foreign companies getting owned in china come from people who were basically shooting from the hip and hoping for the best instead of consulting actual lawyers with relevant experience beforehand
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Jan 10, 2017 06:24
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its that inscrutable Chinese language impossible for anyone to understand!
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Jan 10, 2017 06:52
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it's pretty ignorant to say companies can't protect ip in china, but your average kickstarter company with no legal department, onsite oversight liaisons, litigation funds, previous relationships, or backup manufacturers who is already using the cheapest manufacturer they can find is really easy prey
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Jan 10, 2017 06:52
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the Lily is done, and beginning to hand out refunds. Spent most of their money on r&d, couldn't get anyone to invest in them, and realized they were in 2017 and every consumer drone on the market does their one gimmick (which wasn't unique even on announcement)
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Jan 13, 2017 17:38
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my one wish for 2017 is that people stop jizzing themselves over loving drones. there's nothing cool or interesting about them any more, just buy the cheapest one you can find on aliexpress and shut up about it
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Jan 13, 2017 18:59
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Theres lots of neato things being done incrementally with them, at least with regards to sensor and cv related stuff. Theres pretty much noone that can compete with DJI on the consumer end when it comes to innovation though (which is why every investor looked at what lily had and went, "nah" - their entire featureset was replicated in about a month or so, no ip theft required).
moron izzard fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 00:25
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fart simpson posted:i suspect a lot of the stories of foreign companies getting owned in china come from people who were basically shooting from the hip and hoping for the best instead of consulting actual lawyers with relevant experience beforehand in countries where the courts work properly, showing up and shooting from the hip actually works that's why people complain about contract enforcement in china, and not, say, the united states or germany
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Jan 14, 2017 02:18
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fart simpson posted:if anyone is actually interested in this type of thing you should read china law blog funny you should mention it here's a choice pull from the most recent article on china law blog quote:yesterday, one of our China lawyers got a similar email from a foreign buyer asking us essentially the same question. I discussed all of this with co-blogger Steve Dickinson and his response was “that’s what’s so cool about Chinese companies. They tell you what they are going to do. These two Chinese companies are saying if you don’t choose us we will steal your product. The choice is up to you. It’s up to our clients to listen” there's the last ten years in chinese civil law development, right there: they used to just steal your product and not warn you. now they threaten you with ip theft up front.
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Jan 14, 2017 02:27
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:in countries where the courts work properly, showing up and shooting from the hip actually works no, i'm pretty sure showing up to court int he US with no clue about local law tends to work lovely
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Jan 14, 2017 02:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfVbiefMdNU
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Jan 14, 2017 02:53
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