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Can you hear that? It's the sound of standard rotting from the inside. Well, faster than before.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:30
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:Also, all the more reason to not bother buying back into standard. Heavy handed bannings that will now happen twice as often do not make me want to put money into a good deck. In fairness to Wizards, the first standard bannings in almost 6 years targeting two HIGHLY ban-worthy cards and one very likely ban-worthy card isn't exactly what I call heavy handed. The format will be literally a million times better without Emrakul and Copter
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Jan 9, 2017 20:31
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Sickening posted:To be fair they banned a pretty popular mythic just now. Yeah I liked Emmy. I think adding GY hate and banning marvel would have been better but they still want energy to be a thing I guess.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:31
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A big flaming stink posted:Thragtusk, then. Are you for real or do you just play someone who doesn't know INN/RTR on TV?
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Jan 9, 2017 20:31
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Sickening posted:To be fair they banned a pretty popular mythic just now. it already sold its packs my dude
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Jan 9, 2017 20:31
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Sickening posted:To be fair they banned a pretty popular mythic just now. It's from a set that's not selling many packs right now because I guarantee 95% of their sales are from Kaladesh and soon Aether Revolt. Count Bleck posted:Can you hear that? How does the format getting much more enjoyable to play due to three cards getting removed make Standard worse in your eyes?
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Jan 9, 2017 20:33
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Count Bleck posted:Can you hear that? I just fully disagree. This is the kind of thing they needed to do if they wanted a fun and diverse format. Copter and Emrakul were much, much to overcentralizing and were two of the biggest reasons that standard has been unfun imo
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Jan 9, 2017 20:34
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BJPaskoff posted:How does the format getting much more enjoyable to play due to three cards getting removed make Standard worse in your eyes? I suppose it does make Standard less poo poo, but if they were going to pull this poo poo I wish it was when Siege Rhino was That Card Everyone Played And Hated, as well. I guess it's my own drat fault for holding on to a playset of Looter Scooters while not actually playing Standard. And that I now need to find another aggro deck to give a drat about.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:36
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sit on my Facebook posted:I just fully disagree. This is the kind of thing they needed to do if they wanted a fun and diverse format. Copter and Emrakul were much, much to overcentralizing and were two of the biggest reasons that standard has been unfun imo I can agree with this. Good thing radiant flames is still around to keep aggro in check for my cat ladies.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:36
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kinda hosed up that they banned probe in the format without cabal therapy unless this means we are getting cabal therapy
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Jan 9, 2017 20:37
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rabidsquid posted:you really don't understand why they don't want to ban out the combo that sells more mythics I am never going to buy into Standard if they're going to just ban cards instead of bothering to print answers to them. They printed Deglamor but didn't print Shatter - if they had then you can leave Copter around. They refused to print something like Tormod's Crypt. gently caress it whatever just ban Delver and maybe Probe in Pauper WotC and I'll stop complaining.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:37
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Hellsau posted:I am never going to buy into Standard if they're going to just ban cards instead of bothering to print answers to them. They printed Deglamor but didn't print Shatter - if they had then you can leave Copter around. They refused to print something like Tormod's Crypt. I don't think we needed Shatter. I think we needed Smelt.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:38
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sit on my Facebook posted:I just fully disagree. This is the kind of thing they needed to do if they wanted a fun and diverse format. Copter and Emrakul were much, much to overcentralizing and were two of the biggest reasons that standard has been unfun imo you can also see this philosophy in past bans like: rally the ancestors collected company siege rhino stoke the flames pack rat etc
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Jan 9, 2017 20:38
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Count Bleck posted:I suppose it does make Standard less poo poo, but if they were going to pull this poo poo I wish it was when Siege Rhino was That Card Everyone Played And Hated, as well. There's a difference between no one liking Siege Rhino and being unable to play anything but WU value mans or Cheat Out Emrakul without getting dragged into the screaming pits of hell.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:38
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Are you for real or do you just play someone who doesn't know INN/RTR on TV?
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Jan 9, 2017 20:39
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Tales of Woe posted:yeah i don't understand why people always bring up thragtusk, a card that was in a few good decks in a standard with like 20 good decks. I miss INN/RTR Standard. Izzet Blitz was The Best Most Fun Deck.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:41
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Tales of Woe posted:yeah i don't understand why people always bring up thragtusk, a card that was in a few good decks in a standard with like 20 good decks. I mean a lot of decks played it but that's because everything was 3/4 colors and it cost only one colored mana. It was a slow standard, almost certainly due to Thragtusk, but there was quite a bit of variety in how the slow decks worked.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:42
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I think they banned Reflector Mage because having Mage without Copter likely means there would not be any viable Aggro decks.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:42
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Hellsau posted:Look I can understand banning mage to preemptively weaken the Copy Cat deck, but Copter was one of the few things that could threaten the opponent's Saheeli if they curved Inspector into two drop into just running the Saheeli out turn three. I don't understand leaving actual Twin combo in standard. They doubled the number of B&R Announcments so that they could do it without people complaining it never got a chance. It's still too good and everyone's about to find out.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:43
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I can agree with this. Good thing radiant flames is still around to keep aggro in check for my cat ladies. Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that Cat Lady is a relatively fair deck. Without Ponder/Preordain/Serum Visions around you don't have near the consistency of Exarch-Twin when it was in standard and that deck was totally reasonable. With relatively decent commonly played or potentially playable answers in the form of Grasp of Darkness/Shock/Warping Wail/Stasis Snare/Fatal Push/playable counterspells/Authority of the Consuls/Thalia and probably more that are viable in this brave new world, I think having a combo win deck like Cat Lady is pretty sweet actually, and at the very least not good enough to be degenerate.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:45
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sit on my Facebook posted:Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that Cat Lady is a relatively fair deck. Without Ponder/Preordain/Serum Visions around you don't have near the consistency of Exarch-Twin when it was in standard and that deck was totally reasonable. With relatively decent commonly played or potentially playable answers in the form of Grasp of Darkness/Shock/Warping Wail/Stasis Snare/Fatal Push/playable counterspells/Authority of the Consuls/Thalia and probably more that are viable in this brave new world, I think having a combo win deck like Cat Lady is pretty sweet actually, and at the very least not good enough to be degenerate. It's not a relatively fair deck, it's a completely degenerate deck you can never beat. You'll see. It's closer to Twin than you think it is. The combo has 8 cards and a bunch of cards that are reasonably powerful on their own. If the board is clear on turn 3, they just play Saheeli and up tick her to 4. From then on its on the onus of the other player to keep up instead speed removal for the rest of the match, while the opponent digs for the combo + Dispel. The best way to pressure Saheeli was Smuggler's Copter. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 20:48
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Angry Grimace posted:It's not a relatively fair deck, it's a completely degenerate deck you can never beat. You'll see. It's closer to Twin than you think it is. The combo has 8 cards and a bunch of cards that are reasonably powerful on their own. Yeah I mean I'm totally open to being wrong on this one but I was just beating up on it over and over with other counterspell decks that weren't devoting 8 slots to a bad PW and a bad creature. I'm sure it's a tier one deck, to be clear, but I'm not yet convinced it's unfair.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:51
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sit on my Facebook posted:In fairness to Wizards, the first standard bannings in almost 6 years targeting two HIGHLY ban-worthy cards and one very likely ban-worthy card isn't exactly what I call heavy handed. I meant heavy-handed more in the sense that they're addressing the symptoms instead of the illness. Instead of banning things when they inevitably get out of control and the format stagnates in a few weeks, they should be focusing on shifting their design philosophies to create more balanced and diverse formats. Fewer pushed cards and huge value bombs, better answers and counter-strategies built into sets, and frankly a lower overall power level.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:51
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Feels bad to spend 200 bucks on card you can't play 
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Jan 9, 2017 20:52
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sit on my Facebook posted:Without Ponder/Preordain/Serum Visions around you don't have near the consistency of Exarch-Twin when it was in standard and that deck was totally reasonable. that deck was NOT reasonable for the last couple months, after M12 came out and brought in Ponder. enough people had checked out of the format at that point that it never really got built up as a boogeyman but it was clearly stupid strong.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:53
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mcmagic posted:Feels bad to spend 200 bucks on card you can't play What the hell did you spend 200 bucks on?
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Jan 9, 2017 20:53
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Sickening posted:What the hell did you spend 200 bucks on? Playsets of everything that got banned heh. (Maybe closer to 150...)
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Jan 9, 2017 20:54
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:I meant heavy-handed more in the sense that they're addressing the symptoms instead of the illness. Instead of banning things when they inevitably get out of control and the format stagnates in a few weeks, they should be focusing on shifting their design philosophies to create more balanced and diverse formats. Fewer pushed cards and huge value bombs, better answers and counter-strategies built into sets, and frankly a lower overall power level. Who says they're not? Aether Revolt was probably already being printed before they even knew there was a problem.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:54
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Tales of Woe posted:that deck was NOT reasonable for the last couple months, after M12 came out and brought in Ponder. enough people had checked out of the format at that point that it never really got built up as a boogeyman but it was clearly stupid strong. It only really caught on in the superstandard that also had post-ban Caw-Blade which was still really overpowered. Everyone interested in Standard was waiting until ZEN block left to try anything.
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Jan 9, 2017 20:56
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Tales of Woe posted:that deck was NOT reasonable for the last couple months, after M12 came out and brought in Ponder. enough people had checked out of the format at that point that it never really got built up as a boogeyman but it was clearly stupid strong. i mean there were a lot of strong decks when twin was in standard, it was strong but it wasnt remotely oppressive
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Jan 9, 2017 20:56
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https://twitter.com/samstod/status/818541652004388864
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Jan 9, 2017 21:00
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rabidsquid posted:i mean there were a lot of strong decks when twin was in standard, it was strong but it wasnt remotely oppressive This is the main distinction imo; it's fine that an infinite combo deck is strong. The mere fact that it's an infinite combo deck does not make it necessarily oppressive. Again, obviously, it remains to be seen how Cat Lady shakes out but I think it'll be fine.
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Jan 9, 2017 21:00
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taking win rates from modo is CERTAINLY INTERESTING
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Jan 9, 2017 21:02
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rabidsquid posted:taking win rates from modo is CERTAINLY INTERESTING I like that they do balancing based on MODO but told MTG goldfish to stop.
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Jan 9, 2017 21:02
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this was a defensible position 2 months ago but every pro has been pretty down on it since the rise of marvel
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Jan 9, 2017 21:03
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I mean for Car Lady there is Negate. Also Declaration in Stone.
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Jan 9, 2017 21:04
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Soul Glo posted:Also Declaration in Stone. ?
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Jan 9, 2017 21:05
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Kill all the cats, man e: Does Guardian get haste too?
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Jan 9, 2017 21:08
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Tron, bant eldrazi, and other big mana decks just got a little better in modern.
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Jan 9, 2017 21:08
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Soul Glo posted:Kill all the cats, man Let me know how that works for you.
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Jan 9, 2017 21:09
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