|
Chadzok posted:I read on MMM the other day that if your plan is 4% withdrawal rate in years when your stash is >= your starting balance and 3.3% on years when your portfolio drops below your starting balance then you would have never run out of money (based on historical data) on any 20-100 year length retirements. Rick Rickshaw posted:Has anyone really thought about what the OP is doing here? In my opinion, he's looking for motivation. Why not be as optimistic as possible when trying to motivate yourself? Thinking about these is a combination of a) fun, b) motivation to save more, c) spreadsheets with income/spending/budgeting/FI calculations that I can plug into for the rest of my life, and d) to get a general idea of when I can responsibly ditch a high-paying career for something else without ending up in the BWM thread and lifelong regret. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 7, 2017 |
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:55 |
|
|
I feel very blessed to have no desire to retire early.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I feel very blessed to have no desire to retire early. but yes, a desire to actually "retire" without any source of income while watching Netflix all day sounds very BWM
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
Most people don't plan to retire when they have just started their career, that's probably a big reason why so many don't bother to save any money. After 20 years of the same bullshit, a lot of people might have a change in outlook. Or they might get incapacitated, lose a professional license, not be as attractive to employers, be forced to quit for awhile to take care of a dying spouse, or who knows what else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Well, yeah. How many 16-25 year olds do you know that are fiscally responsible? It's just not a thing. Responsibility, in any aspect, is not an innate quality of humans. It's a learned behavior, brought about as an adaptation to deal with adverse conditions. It just has an enormous, harsh loving curve. Coupled with some incredibly dim loving bulbs and people that flat out refuse to learn, no matter how many times they burn themselves. No one is born responsible. And quite frankly that sounds like hell for the child that is. With that being said. If at 25 you wish to start saving up for a "gently caress you" account, that's an admirable goal, in my opinion. It shows foresite and a willingness to delay gratification. Two things that will help anyone become financially independent, barring some abnormality, at some point in their lives. Here's a good question. When are you financially "mature"?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 21:18
|
|
|
EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I feel very blessed to have no desire to retire early.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:12
|
|
|
Once you declare yourself retired, you can't do anything productive, much less economically sustainable, much less profitable. It would be cheating! E: in the past judges have allowed moderate amounts of "whittling, gardening, and other incidentally productive pass-times," as long as none of the results are sold, and only moderate amounts are given as gifts, but I'd be cautious. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jan 7, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
Ralith posted:The word "retirement" can be confusing. Unless you're so spectacularly lucky as to already have a career where you happen to do whatever strikes your fancy and nothing else, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want the freedom to spend your time however you like ASAP. Because as an individual there's no way I could get to participate in the extreme stakes and enormous personal satisfaction that my career affords? If my personal motivation is, at least to some extent, the feeling of being part of something greater - the drive to bond with others, the drive to create a just culture and workplace and the drive to further my and our understanding - it would be really hard to satisfy those drives more convincingly than the place I already occupy. It's a shame more people find their work so lacking when it comes to helping them feel as though they're fulfilling their purpose, but that's what I mean; I am incredibly blessed that my career has given me a purpose. Why would I ever walk away from that except to an even higher calling?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2017 23:04
|
|
|
I unironically love my work, which is why I set an FI goal to be a kick in the rear end that forced me to do it independently. Quitting your job doesn't have to mean changing what you do. It doesn't even have to mean doing less of it, but as a lazy piece of poo poo I only know that anecdotally. eta: And no, you don't have to quit your job, but the tradeoff you make as an employee is to get a stable semi-guaranteed income stream in exchange for not being paid 100% of the value you deliver. If everyone was paid "what they were worth," the organization couldn't turn a profit. But having enough money to live off for even 30 months, much less 30 years, means you can take the risk and time it takes to turn whatever you were getting paid to do into a business you own. I've known people to say they couldn't do that, or they wouldn't like it, and I guess those people can make the rational decision to commute into someone else's office 2000 hours a year until they're 65, but just don't tell me that's obviously the more sensible or moral choice. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jan 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Because as an individual there's no way I could get to participate in the extreme stakes and enormous personal satisfaction that my career affords? I actually enjoy my job right now, for the most part. There's been periods where I have not. But my only personal obligation right now is my dog. I may have kids in the future, and I want the option to take summers off, among other things. My job situation could also change. I work for my provincial government, but my job could get outsourced. My office could be relocated. I could end up with a terrible boss. I really can't see myself working less than 3 days a week on average until I'm 55. Because while I have done a great job at eschewing consumerism in favour of long-term financial goals, once I have am FI, I can see myself getting a little looser with my spending.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
Sometimes I think this is really the "I make at least $100k but don't find any satisfaction in my job" thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sometimes I think this is really the "I make at least $100k but don't find any satisfaction in my job" thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 03:24
|
|
|
Sometimes I think posters in this thread have multiple accounts and are just talking to themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 03:25
|
|
|
VendaGoat posted:Sometimes I think posters in this thread have multiple accounts and are just talking to themselves. I agree strongly with this post and with every post you've ever made. You look nice today btw
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sometimes I think this is really the "I make at least $100k but don't find any satisfaction in my job" thread. I'd feel more satisfied if it paid 100k 
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 06:49
|
|
|
VendaGoat posted:Well, that's an extreme way of taking what I said. Thank you for your radical opinion! To be fair you were being an rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 07:44
|
|
|
EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Because as an individual there's no way I could get to participate in the extreme stakes and enormous personal satisfaction that my career affords? EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Why would I ever walk away from that except to an even higher calling?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 09:01
|
|
|
I think I'm satisfied with my 401k/Roth/Brokerage returns this extremely-long business cycle. I also figure that ya know, the advice to "buy and hold index funds, don't market time, rebalance" is probably at saturation. Also, any appetite for risk that I had went down after quitting to take a gap-year (or three). Anybody else think we're most likely towards the tail-end of this business cycle, and are moving from stocks to safer investments?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
Outlook cloudy: ask again later (Doesn't matter what I think, my odds of beating the benchmark consistently doesn't exist so I'm not gonna try. I figured trump and brexit would be kicks and look where we are now. It stung a bit to buy like 5k of bond funds last week knowing their value would drop as rates rise, but either they'll yield a lot more to make up for it they'll rise in value if stocks will tank and can be sold to rebalance) Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jan 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 15:20
|
|
|
It's kind of weird, the only advice that doesn't get shouted down is "buy index funds" and "think longer term". Essentially any other advice is bad or even the dreaded "timing the market" (gasp!) That's not necessarily untrue, it's just bizarre that if you do the correct thing you're essentially a prisoner who has no options at any point in time. Whenever retirement is doesn't really matter, try to push it back and buy cheaper index funds, those are the only moves you're allowed to make without being ridiculed endlessly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 19:04
|
|
|
Pryor on Fire posted:It's kind of weird, the only advice that doesn't get shouted down is "buy index funds" and "think longer term". Essentially any other advice is bad or even the dreaded "timing the market" (gasp!) Its less that and more the game is rigged against you in pretty much every other method of market investment. If you want to try your hand at it we do have a thread for it but long term financial independence is based off boring long term planning and incremental compounding returns. At least the method of this thread is, if you know a better way please share.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Mofabio posted:I think I'm satisfied with my 401k/Roth/Brokerage returns this extremely-long business cycle. I also figure that ya know, the advice to "buy and hold index funds, don't market time, rebalance" is probably at saturation. Also, any appetite for risk that I had went down after quitting to take a gap-year (or three). Anybody else think we're most likely towards the tail-end of this business cycle, and are moving from stocks to safer investments? I do this a bit, but within bands so I don't get too crazy. If I was far away from retirement I might limit myself to at least 65% stocks, but be willing to go to 100% stocks if the market crashes. As I get nearer/in retirement, my bands change to like 40% - 75%. A couple years ago I also started shifting out of BND (average duration of about 6-8 years) into a 50/50 mix of BND and their short term version of it in anticipation of the inevitable yield increases, and I'll probably leave that at 50/50 for a couple more years before going back into BND fully. So right now I'm just about 50% stocks, 25% BND and 25% short term bonds/cash. My stock portion has always been pretty heavily in small value stocks via VBR so a lot of people would treat that as >50% risk allocation. I might be willing to go as low as 40% stocks if this goofy Trump rally continues for awhile, I'm not sure yet. I wouldn't really recommend this to anyone else though. To me, there are plenty of indicators around making me think a fairly big recession is imminent but who knows, we might all do so much winning in the next 4 years that the S&P hits 5000.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
There's cases to be made for doing other things, but for low net worth retail investors like us it mostly amounts to speculation (or possibly insider trading). Index funds are still the minority by far, and there will always be a market for other types of investments be they derivatives, individual stocks, mutual funds or whatever. Institutional investors/hedge funds/high NW individuals will continue to leverage their size to do things small investors can't. Financially illiterate people will continue to make lovely investment decisions based of their brother-in-law's hot tip or their nerd-boners for nintendo or instinctual emotional responses. The original question as to whether or not we might be at the end of a business cycle is a legit one (and my apologies for the glib response) but tactical investment decisions shouldn't drive long term strategy. Investor behavior tends to be the biggest single factor in the context of FI (generally speaking, I'm not the FI police), so asking to what degree a strategic decision should be driven by short term movement seems backward. We could probably have some great discussion of where we think things are going, but it would all essentially be guesswork. Someone with a higher risk tolerance might be willing to act on that guesswork, but given that Mofabio specifically stated his aversion to risk, I don't think he should go down that road. Also, some people like the idea of getting 90% of the upside for 10% of the work if it means they don't have to do hours of research on individual companies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:To be fair you were being an rear end. Just because people think I am an rear end, doesn't make me wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2017 20:09
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sometimes I think this is really the "I make at least $100k but don't find any satisfaction in my job" thread. I personally make less but yes. This. I want to be FI so that I can pursue hobbies that make me happy and have a very low likelyhood of making me money. I really should be happy at my job. It pays really well for the effort put in but it just feels like sinkhole that I shovel my time into.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
If you have millions and millions in assets (i.e. a small premium over index fund returns is worth a lot of money to you) and you have tools, professional expertise, and/or insider information to complete with full time, experienced professional analysts and multibillion dollar firms, then go ahead and attempt to make your moves. For the other 99.9% of us the highest and best use of your time is probably working to earn more money to invest in low-fee index funds with maximum tax advantage strategies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 02:03
|
|
|
Pryor on Fire posted:It's kind of weird, the only advice that doesn't get shouted down is "buy index funds" and "think longer term". Essentially any other advice is bad or even the dreaded "timing the market" (gasp!) I've seen it often means getting into more fun discussions about asset allocations, which aren't talked about enough on SA. There's all sorts of pedantic arguments we can do over them, even while all 100% indexed (when available for the asset class). Edit: Here's my AA, let's get this party rolling! 5% P2P Lending 5% Venture Capital/Debt, individual MLPs, other wackiness like individual stocks 15% US REIT 50% US Equity, (4 : 3 : 3 Market Cap weighting L/M/S cap, Growth/Value even split) 5% Emerging Markets 20% International Developed Equity baquerd fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jan 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 13:19
|
|
|
80% global equity. My thought process is based on the fact I go index because I don't believe I can pick individual stocks better than the market. So why would I believe I can pick individual economies better than the market? Oh and 15% bond 5% reit
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 14:01
|
|
|
Cast_No_Shadow posted:So why would I believe I can pick individual economies better than the market? Fair enough, except when it comes to tax efficient placement.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 14:20
|
|
|
baquerd posted:Fair enough, except when it comes to tax efficient placement. I have galring weakness to tax efficient due to not being american (so not often discussed) and all my investments are currently tax sheltered. Should i be checking for funds that try to be tax (un)efficient as it affects performance/investment choices or given my tax shelteredness am I still good to just ignore it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 15:54
|
|
|
Cast_No_Shadow posted:I have galring weakness to tax efficient due to not being american (so not often discussed) and all my investments are currently tax sheltered.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
It can be something as simple as preferential tax rates on domestic investments which drive putting them in unregistered accounts, or putting your biggest growth assets in shelters to protect as much of the gain as you can. That's my plan anyways, since I'll never be at the point where I can take advantage of poo poo like triple leveraged derivative swaps on private exchanges for an extra basis point and a half. AA chat: 25% bonds, 30% US, 30% international, 15% canada, all index funds.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:20
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sometimes I think this is really the "I make at least $100k but don't find any satisfaction in my job" thread. silicone thrills posted:I personally make less but yes. This. I want to be FI so that I can pursue hobbies that make me happy and have a very low likelyhood of making me money. I really should be happy at my job. It pays really well for the effort put in but it just feels like sinkhole that I shovel my time into. I think sometimes this thread lacks topics worth discussing. After an initial learning curve, pursing FI/RE is, it turns out, really boring. What I think would be really cool to read about are folks who take sabbaticals or "mini-retirements" to try out the lifestyle they have planned for.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:31
|
|
|
sweet_jones posted:What I think would be really cool to read about are folks who take sabbaticals or "mini-retirements" to try out the lifestyle they have planned for. Yeah, people reporting back with some challenges they faced after becoming FI, or unexpected things in general, or whether they now feel like they severly over or undersaved before changing jobs/retiring completely, etc. would be really interesting. Unfortunately this probably has the "look at me humblebragging" look to it which may deter people from discussing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2017 23:37
|
|
|
Blinky2099 posted:Unfortunately this probably has the "look at me humblebragging" look to it which may deter people from discussing. Also the people that would take it as a personal insult, regardless of how good natured it was presented.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
sweet_jones posted:I think sometimes this thread lacks topics worth discussing. After an initial learning curve, pursing FI/RE is, it turns out, really boring. Concur. Finances interests me, as it turns out, but after the first few months there wasn't a whole lot of super game-changing information. Poring over spreadsheets every day seems like a good way for me to resent them, so my current focus in life is on enjoying what I do for its own sake and letting the slow-and-steady investments do their thing. Blinky2099 posted:Yeah, people reporting back with some challenges they faced after becoming FI, or unexpected things in general, or whether they now feel like they severly over or undersaved before changing jobs/retiring completely, etc. would be really interesting. Unfortunately this probably has the "look at me humblebragging" look to it which may deter people from discussing. I think we could get away with it in this thread. At the very least, I won't narc on anyone who does. Most of the FIRE tales I find on the internet tend to be on monetized blogs or forum circlejerks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
Money is an inherently prickly issue, so we may as well embrace that people will get pissy in BFC from time to time. I'm tantalizingly close to being FI. House paid off, assets at $400,000, total net worth $730,000. This came up a lot faster than I expected it to and it's hard to imagine actually hanging up the guns in 5 years as planned. I'm guessing a lot of people get cold feet when it's actually time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 00:23
|
|
|
sweet_jones posted:I think sometimes this thread lacks topics worth discussing. After an initial learning curve, pursing FI/RE is, it turns out, really boring. quote:What I think would be really cool to read about are folks who take sabbaticals or "mini-retirements" to try out the lifestyle they have planned for. I'm 9 months into something like that: slow-paced world travel while writing a software thing I'm hoping to grow into a community and a consulting niche. I'm 35. According to firecalc, my savings has a 98% chance of lasting at least 10 years at my initially estimated expenditures, but I've already committed to give up in two if I can't turn a profit by then. Actually, those estimates ended up being wildly pessimistic: spending isn't consistent month-to-month when you're moving 4-7 times a year, but based on my experience so far, I could do it comfortably and productively (by my standards) for under 15k/year. I've also seen a few places so far where I could afford to just settle down and live indefinitely, but I haven't felt like it. Maybe that would be a bit "too retired." Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 00:59
|
|
|
sweet_jones posted:What I think would be really cool to read about are folks who take sabbaticals or "mini-retirements" to try out the lifestyle they have planned for.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:55 |
|
|
Guest2553 posted:I think we could get away with it in this thread. At the very least, I won't narc on anyone who does. Most of the FIRE tales I find on the internet tend to be on monetized blogs or forum circlejerks. GoGoGadgetChris posted:Money is an inherently prickly issue, so we may as well embrace that people will get pissy in BFC from time to time. moana posted:I'm mini-retired along with my husband to take care of our babby for a while. The next 2-3 years we're going to track our spending to see if we can make it a permanent thing and/or if we even want to be retired. I'll probably get back into tutoring math part time since I love it so much, but it's nice to know that we have a nest egg that will support us for a good long time. I'm at $86k invested, $132k net worth. Spending $2900/mo average, expected to go up to $3500-$4000/mo when I am forced out of my GWM rent into normal-priced bay area rent. Expected savings ~$5400/mo or ~$65k/year post tax (or higher assuming I deposit traditional 401k, which I think I probably should be if I expect to retire early on a much lower tax bracket than I am today.) $18k/yr 401k, $5.5k/yr in traditional IRA -> roth IRA conversion, rest is all taxable vanguard mutual funds. Savings are going to largely fluctuate based on stock, changing jobs/positions/companies, etc. So, not even close to pure FI, but a big cushion for switching occupations in a few years if I'm desperate enough, or switch to a low paying job longer term after 5-10 years and having that be good enough. Starting a business seems out of the question for most people unless your start-up expenses are very low; building a nest to have 0 income for a while seems reasonable enough, but a nest to have significant negative income if you fail for a couple years seems a lot harder Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2017 01:14
|
|