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ProfessorProf posted:
"It's crazy, Officer! The gun just accidentally went off on it's own 17 times! Also can you help me carry out these gazillion completely unrelated gold ingots?"
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Jan 10, 2017 14:46
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"I don't need that. More importantly, tell me. On that day, what happened on Rokkenjima? I don't believe it was an accident. Tell me the truth about what happened that day, and why Father and Mother and Nii-san died...!!"
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| # ? May 11, 2024 10:40 |
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First of which is: The Profiles and Tips for EP3 have both been updated.
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Jan 10, 2017 14:46
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Thanks ProfessorProf, the amount of time you must be devoting to this is insane.
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Jan 10, 2017 15:27
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Danaru posted:"It's crazy, Officer! The gun just accidentally went off on it's own 17 times! Also can you help me carry out these gazillion completely unrelated gold ingots?" Yeah, I really have to wonder how Eva pulled that off- getting off the island AND going back to collect the gold without anyone asking pointed questions or finding the bodies. Given that the rumors persisted after that time, the evidence must have been inconclusive, but I really can't see how- it's not like she can pretend the storm collapsed the mansion or something. Anyway, wow, poor Ange.  The first two times she was left alone by her family, she was alone except for Kyrie's relatives... and this time around, her only living family is a bitter, twisted individual who killed her happiness out of spite and paranoia. Either way, it doesn't exactly lead to a happy childhood- once again, a determining factor of a witch is a life riven with unhappiness, but the way each "witch" deals with their unhappiness could not be more different. Where a bad witch just revels in their power and close their hearts in selfishness (like Evatrice and Lambdadelta and the image that Beatrice projects) or they actively try to fix their unhappiness, and others (like Virgilia [if she was real], Bernekastel*, and what Maria wants to be); it would seem that the idea behind "witches" (at least in the context of this story) is the struggle between empathy vs abuse: whether to cure suffering by helping others as you can, or forget your own misery by making others more miserable, and I've said it before, but I admire the ability of Ryukishi07 to portray the "abusers" in this story as cruel and damaging people without making most of them seem completely irredeemable. (Except for Kinzo, who will need significantly more work and development before I believe any redemption story of his.)And now another witch has flown into the air, to save this shattered and miserable end. But can the Ushiromiyas be saved? That remains the question. *although I do see why B might call herself "the cruelest witch of all." oath2order described very well in his post; hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man, to borrow Nietzsche's phrase. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 15:36
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Listen to this one. It's real good. Probably one of the best sad songs on the track.
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Jan 10, 2017 15:37
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CottonWolf posted:Thanks ProfessorProf, the amount of time you must be devoting to this is insane. His dedication to garbage is impressive.
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Jan 10, 2017 15:42
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I have no idea how this is going to work. We have magical time-travelling Ange, who presumably only will be there on the meta- stage, but she's also a "witch", so is Battler now going to be attempting to kill her too, by extension. It doesn't seem like it would make much narrative sense for her to just help Battler, as she presumably can use red text too, and therefore just explain away everything, like Beato did earlier. Just some stray thoughts on magic (which, of course, doesn't exist): Lambdadelta is the Witch of Certainty, Beato's the Endless Witch (Is that right, or does she have a "Witch of X" title too?), and Bernkastel's the Witch of Miracles, which seems to roughly correlates with making things happen with probability 1, making things happen forever, and exploiting infinitesimal probability loopholes. We've been told it's a triangle. Lambda beats Beato, Beato beat Bern, Bern beats Lambda. By which logic, if we take Certainty, Endless and Miracles as the schools embodied by the witches, Certainty beats Endless, Endless beats Miracles and Miracles beats Certainty. This seems to lead to a contradiction. Kinzo's magic is definitely in the miracles school, given that it's based around gambling on low probability outcomes, and the church statement seems to bare that out too. It's basically exactly what Bern was referencing this update. Yet if we are to believe Beato's story about the backstory, she somehow loses to Kinzo and it depowers her for some number of years. Doesn't seem to make sense with what we've been told. resurgam40 posted:Yeah, I really have to wonder how Eva pulled that off- getting off the island AND going back to collect the gold without anyone asking pointed questions or finding the bodies. Given that the rumors persisted after that time, the evidence must have been inconclusive, but I really can't see how- it's not like she can pretend the storm collapsed the mansion or something. If it were me, I'd start a fire. Put all the bodies in the mansion and torch the place. It might be a bit tricky to keep it going in the storm, but with enough accelerant you might be able to get it going, especially as it would take a fair amount of time before the roof collapsed if you started it on the ground floor. Then you just play the "I tried to get in and save them but the fire was too hot" card. The bloodstains in the other building are more tricky, but... bleach?
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Jan 10, 2017 15:50
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Talk about the cycle repeating. But retsurgam brings up a good point: how did they not manage to incriminate Eva in at least of of the deaths? Bribery does seem like a quick and easy solution here. And the way she talks about George died reinforce that it was probably Nanjo who killed him (I liked my pet theory that she killed him in delirium, but I question if she was even sick in the first place now, and that all the gold made her temporarily lose her mind, or something). We see her kill Battler through his POV, so she had at least a kill count of 1. Maybe she really was clever enough to fool 1980's cops. Open a few windows, contaminate the crime scenes, juggle guns, remove fingerprints, yada yada. But in spite of all the terrible poo poo Eva did and put Ange through, it's good to see that she still is her brother's sister. One more thing that I found interesting was that the world isn't stopped, that each game played creates a new timeline. To be fair, it's not exactly new info considering R07.
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Jan 10, 2017 15:59
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In fairness to Eva, she did set up those closed rooms. Maybe. She's probably capable of fooling the police.
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Jan 10, 2017 16:03
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When everyone is a witch, nobody will try and disprove witches because it means they pop out of existence too.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:25
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The ultimate deterrent, Mutually Assured Disproof.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:57
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When was DNA first used as evidence? Eva could have fooled the cops if they had no means to analyze DNA.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:01
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The technique was commercialised in the very late '80s in the UK, so the Japanese police definitely wouldn't have been using it then. e: Though if any samples were kept from the incident, it could easily have been used after the fact. e2: Thinking more on this, it's not even clear what DNA profiling would tell you in this case. Without Eva having suffered any wounds, there won't be that much of her DNA being thrown around the place. With only a small amount of DNA (but enough for nuclear DNA to be analysed) it might be pretty difficult to distinguish between Eva and Rosa if you were unlucky, as you might have trouble getting working reactions at all the loci. If you didn't have enough for nuclear DNA and had to use mitochondrial DNA you'd only likely be able to rule out Kyrie, Natsuhi, Jessica, Battler, Nanjo, Kinzo and the servants (because they're not in a direct female line from Kinzo's wife and mtDNA is maternally inherited). Even if you got a match, it's hard to say it proves anything. Given that she lived there previously and doesn't deny having been in the house at the time, it'd be hard to make the case that any DNA found there wasn't secondary contact, especially if she claimed that she found the bodies and checked them over. At that point any competent barrister (or Japanese Phoenix Wright-esque equivalent) should be able to at least put a significant question mark over the DNA evidence. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jan 10, 2017 |
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Jan 10, 2017 18:28
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It's obvious that the police took a look at the place, went "Yup, witches did this" and let Eva go.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:34
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It is pretty funny that after 3 episodes of the police being built up as incredible crime solvers and super sleuths it quickly becomes clear that they took a good long look at the crime scene and went "I dunno, probably magic?"
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Jan 10, 2017 18:55
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oath2order posted:It is pretty funny that after 3 episodes of the police being built up as incredible crime solvers and super sleuths it quickly becomes clear that they took a good long look at the crime scene and went "I dunno, probably magic?" To be fair, they were right.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:24
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Didn't it just imply that Eva bribed the police off? I do think it's weird to think they expect anyone to believe that the other 17 killed each other and/or themselves, but to be fair the public thinks that's complete bullshit which is part of why she turned out the way she did. Also did Ange just leap through time off the building? If she did, I like to think Bern put her right outside the window she smashed through. Jump back in time 12 years through granddads lovely window is a pretty funny first appearance.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:24
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ProfessorProf posted:'An extremely unfortunate accident' occurred, and the Ushiromiya family was wiped out. 'Fortunately', Ushiromiya Eva escaped from that...and inherited almost all of the Ushiromiya family's fortune. However, due to the many turbulent rumors surrounding the Ushiromiya family, the way Eva acted afterwards, and her unnatural actions 'at the time of the unfortunate accident', the public was in an uproar over whether this might have been a conspiracy to get all of the inheritance for herself. The phrasing of this is really weird. Who would call a pile of maimed bodies an "unfortunate accident"? That seems... overly euphemistic, even for the Japanese.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:38
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So the bodies were unrecognizable, and it's commonly believed that Eva did it, but the official word (based on whatever evidence) is that there was an accident. Maybe a fire? If the killer piles everyone's bodies in the mansion and sets fire to it, that could result in there being little to no physical evidence left, and it could be claimed that the fire was accidental. (Today, I would expect even that to fail, since we have lots of ways of examining bones, but back then it might have worked.) It definitely couldn't just be a bunch of intact bodies with, like, stakes stuck into them or whatever, even the worst cops would probably realize that involved a little murder. That would also explain the references to people going to hell (since, commonly, hell = fire). That would also explain why you might distribute corpses around in a bunch of different rooms, so it would look as much as possible like a bunch of people just doing whatever in different places just got caught in the fire unexpectedly. Eva can claim she was taking a walk at night looking for Crazy Old Kinzo's Gold and that's how she survived. Now I'm wondering what the gently caress is up with episodes one and two, where Eva clearly died, if she's alive after the fact. I didn't expect there to be a survivor for real, that kind of blows the whole mystery open, in a way, since at least she ought to know what happened. (But if she refuses to tell anyone and is about to die in the hospital, I guess that hole is about to be closed back up.) I suppose if episode one is the story told in the bottle note, it could be, although why would Maria (or someone impersonating her) write a story where Eva was murdered? Episode two has the Halloween Murder and she's definitely dead there too, and we don't get an explanation for that story that I recall, so what the hell? I mean, I guess if this is all Ange thinking about what happened, maybe it's just a "what if my terrible aunt was horribly murdered" thing before she gets down to the business of actually thinking about how it might have worked. Maybe the bottle thing is just a misdirect, and that's part of what Ange is imagining.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:43
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Fabulousvillain posted:Didn't it just imply that Eva bribed the police off? I do think it's weird to think they expect anyone to believe that the other 17 killed each other and/or themselves, but to be fair the public thinks that's complete bullshit which is part of why she turned out the way she did. No, it implied that that's what the media claimed, with absolutely no evidence to back up their claims, to play to the court of public opinion. Nothing in the update implies anything about Eva covering, or not, up her theoretical crime, or how. "Well, she just inherited a fortune under mysterious circumstances, and the police couldn't figure it out. CLEARLY she bribed them." Ange seemingly just jumped off a building, yes, but I'm pretty sure she didn't go through a window afterwards. Glass shattering sounds are just a relatively common sound in VNs/games to represent breaking through dimensions (in this case time). She didn't literally come through a window in the previous update, as she simply appeared right in the middle of the hall.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:47
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Lord Koth posted:No, it implied that that's what the media claimed, with absolutely no evidence to back up their claims, to play to the court of public opinion. Nothing in the update implies anything about Eva covering, or not, up her theoretical crime, or how. "Well, she just inherited a fortune under mysterious circumstances, and the police couldn't figure it out. CLEARLY she bribed them." Of course, just because that's what the media believes doesn't mean it's wrong. 10 tons of gold buys a lot of bribes, if push comes to shove.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:05
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oath2order posted:Of course, just because that's what the media believes doesn't mean it's wrong. 10 tons of gold buys a lot of bribes, if push comes to shove. Sure, she might perfectly well have bribed them. But that's purely speculation from the information we currently have available - there was nothing in the actual update implying that definitely happened.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:08
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Dishonest media, very unfair
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Jan 10, 2017 21:36
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idonotlikepeas posted:So the bodies were unrecognizable, and it's commonly believed that Eva did it, but the official word (based on whatever evidence) is that there was an accident. Maybe a fire? If the killer piles everyone's bodies in the mansion and sets fire to it, that could result in there being little to no physical evidence left, and it could be claimed that the fire was accidental. (Today, I would expect even that to fail, since we have lots of ways of examining bones, but back then it might have worked.) It definitely couldn't just be a bunch of intact bodies with, like, stakes stuck into them or whatever, even the worst cops would probably realize that involved a little murder. That would also explain the references to people going to hell (since, commonly, hell = fire). That would also explain why you might distribute corpses around in a bunch of different rooms, so it would look as much as possible like a bunch of people just doing whatever in different places just got caught in the fire unexpectedly. Eva can claim she was taking a walk at night looking for Crazy Old Kinzo's Gold and that's how she survived. If it was just "went to hell", I'd agree with you. But that's not what the profiles always say. They always say chewed, munched, eaten, just totally annihilated. Then a fire would make sense. It always says "when the seagulls cry, [x] survived". Maybe it's not actually talking about the seagulls. If there's a loud noise, and then a fire, that leads me to think some kind of explosion? Maybe the numbers written down is, like, a way to disarm a bomb or something. Or maybe I've played too much Zero Escape.
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Jan 10, 2017 21:43
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curiousCat posted:If it was just "went to hell", I'd agree with you. But that's not what the profiles always say. They always say chewed, munched, eaten, just totally annihilated. Then a fire would make sense. It always says "when the seagulls cry, [x] survived". Maybe it's not actually talking about the seagulls. If there's a loud noise, and then a fire, that leads me to think some kind of explosion? Maybe the numbers written down is, like, a way to disarm a bomb or something. Or maybe I've played too much Zero Escape. Eva: "Yes. Yes, Understood. S.E.A.G.U.L.L has been activated. Password is 07151129. So long, Jessica. <See you in hell.> *cackle*"
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Jan 10, 2017 22:24
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Rodyle posted:Dishonest media, very unfair We've got the best witches, just the best, you're gonna love our witches.
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Jan 10, 2017 22:52
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Kaninrail posted:We've got the best witches, just the best, you're gonna love our witches. M a k e R o k k e n j i m a G r e a t A g a i n
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Jan 10, 2017 23:03
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MRGA sounds kind of like 'Murica, which is a name for America, specifically the US. The gold is in the US. Kinzo's westaboo tendencies are quite deep-rooted, so we should have seen this a mile away.
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Jan 10, 2017 23:07
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Why do you think the color of truth is RED
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Jan 10, 2017 23:11
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Rodyle posted:Why do you think the color of truth is RED 
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Jan 10, 2017 23:29
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Magic is trickle down economics
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Jan 11, 2017 00:12
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Since someone asked for it, now we can post the Umineko Motion Graphic for Episode 3. I also included the previous two, in case people missed them. EPISODE 1 (fullscreen recommended for this one, since Polsy messes up the default screen size)  EPISODE 2  EPISODE 3 
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Jan 11, 2017 00:19
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oath2order posted:Eva: "Yes. Yes, Understood. S.E.A.G.U.L.L has been activated. Password is 07151129. So long, Jessica. <See you in hell.> *cackle*" Technology advanced enough to be indistinguishable from magic is how witches are made, don't ya know Merely A Giant Ignition Cannon Checkmate. 
curiousCat fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 00:43
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curiousCat posted:Technology advanced enough to be indistinguishable from magic is how witches are made, don't ya know Without L.O.V.E it cannot be seen. Yes; LOVE, too, is an acronym. 
oath2order fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 01:14
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Eva's genocide route, Ange is the surprise boss at the end.
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Jan 11, 2017 05:14
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Does that make Battler Papyrus? I'm down.
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Jan 11, 2017 05:19
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It's actually Kinzo. He wants to be a great father/grandfather but he keeps screwing up to a comical degree.
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Jan 11, 2017 06:58
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halfhazardKnight posted:It's actually Kinzo. He wants to be a great father/grandfather but he keeps screwing up to a comical degree. Is there a prequel sitcom series starring Kinzo that I'm not aware of? What would it be called, Everybody Loves Kinzo?
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Jan 11, 2017 07:46
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 Time for Episode 3 manga highlights! This one brings back the artist who did Episode 1, and the results are as great as one might expect. Beatrice and Beatrice:  Teen Ghost Eva:  Beato continues to chew the scenery:  The Dude:  Beato actually waits a little longer in this scene before flouncing out:  Babby Rosa:  Get owned:  Kinzo explodes:  Kanon VS Lucifer:  Shannon VS the Stakes:  Beatrice VS Virgilia:  Beato cheats:  Beato is doing her best:  Coronation:  Evatrice immediately loses it:  Sorry, Maria:  Jesus Christ Kyrie  Don't mess with Battler's parents:  The Chiesters:  Hideyoshi VS Evatrice:  Evatrice keeps killing everyone:  Evatrice is still killing everyone:  True Magic™:  Here Comes a New Challenger:  Eva starts to crack:  The web:  A mighty sacrifice:  Hey guys remember Evangelion:  Lol j/k:  Player 2 arrives:  End of the main game:  Lambdadelta's true colors:  Old lovely Eva:  End of EP3:  Bonus: 
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 14:34
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| # ? May 11, 2024 10:40 |
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Pretty bad. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 11, 2017 14:59
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