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TomViolence posted:Wouldn't it be fair to say that all activists are angry about the status quo on some level? And what do you consider a pragmatic way to protest, if not through publicly expressing this discontent with the way things are? However, elsewhere and on these forums, people have claimed that it is unacceptable to NOT confront e.g. Trump voters with how essentially evil they are. For them, it is better to mock and deride Trump voters than it is to try to reason with them. Anyone who thinks that way cares more about punishing and hurting people (the right kinds of people, of course! only ever the right kind!) than they do about whatever their stated altruistic goals might be. Such an attitude is self-evidently awful regardless of the socieoeconomic status of its possessor. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 00:55
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You're all... kind of stupid for caring more about asinine social issues and branding each other racist for this reason and that reason than the real biggest issue on this planet. You realize this will never do anything but further divide this majority white nation (literally acknowledging that triggers most of you I'm sure, facts are tuff I kno) instead of caring about the actual fate of the planet. If you don't think the biggest tragedy of the Donald Trump presidency is anything but the fact that he is a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER, I am sorry, you are short sighted and need to spend a few less hours on tumblr each day. Get in the climate change thread and realize none of your squabbles matter whatsoever. You, and massive swaths of both liberals and conservatives alike, are putting things like making sure there is equal representation of genders religions and races in every boardroom, coal mine and restaurant staff as a higher priority issue than keeping the oceans full of edible life. The hilarious irony is liberals really, really do not get that in a majority white nation, you will ALWAYS lose politically if you demonize white people (nice job with "white people don't know what it's like to be poor, Bernie, I'm sure the entire poor white rust belt just let that one slide") and you will NOT get them to all self-hate themselves and realize the errors of theirs and their ancestors ways, at least not any time before we're already having massive sects of our world population die from food insecurity. And yet you still think this is a "fight worth fighting". Your pathetic squabbles will not exist if massively more people care about this asinine "culture war" than Florida not sinking into the ocean or having breathable air and arable land for agriculture. Putting those issues ahead just encourages millions of people to fight about this "culture war" all day long on the internet, to secure some intellectual victory over the other "side", all while driving to the grocery store and being huge drains on resources doing it. Putting these "social issues" ahead of the future of all human life on this planet just illustrates you only really care about your own lives being that much slightly more comfortable and your meaningless political "victories" over the "other guys" and it's a shame that such huge sects of society get caught up in this bullshit when there is really only one issue that matters if you want to even keep having your precious "culture war" squabbles and that's keeping human life possible on the planet. I know this thread is full of liberals, so if a liberal wants to actually explain to me how these "culture war" issues, and having vastly more people focusing on them than keeping life on this planet going and sustainable, be my guest. I suppose no one actually said they are "more important" in this thread, but the truth of the matter is subreddits dedicated to "red pill" ideals, "blue pill" ideals, anti Trump, pro Trump, etc etc etc all have massively more subscribers than climate change. We're loving hosed, people, this is what you want to go out talking about?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:12
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cosmicprank posted:You're all... kind of stupid for caring more about asinine social issues and branding each other racist for this reason and that reason than the real biggest issue on this planet. You realize this will never do anything but further divide this majority white nation (literally acknowledging that triggers most of you I'm sure, facts are tuff I kno) instead of caring about the actual fate of the planet. If you don't think the biggest tragedy of the Donald Trump presidency is anything but the fact that he is a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER, I am sorry, you are short sighted and need to spend a few less hours on tumblr each day. Get in the climate change thread and realize none of your squabbles matter whatsoever. You, and massive swaths of both liberals and conservatives alike, are putting things like making sure there is equal representation of genders religions and races in every boardroom, coal mine and restaurant staff as a higher priority issue than keeping the oceans full of edible life. The hilarious irony is liberals really, really do not get that in a majority white nation, you will ALWAYS lose politically if you demonize white people (nice job with "white people don't know what it's like to be poor, Bernie, I'm sure the entire poor white rust belt just let that one slide") and you will NOT get them to all self-hate themselves and realize the errors of theirs and their ancestors ways, at least not any time before we're already having massive sects of our world population die from food insecurity. And yet you still think this is a "fight worth fighting". Obama is functionally a climate-change denier. All Americans are in the sense that they don't really care or secretly fear that we passed the point of no return 15 years ago. Is there even a plan to save the earth that will work, setting aside the question of whether any human can successfully put it into action?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:21
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My question is, is labeling each other racists and further contributing to a cultural division that will make it harder to come together on this ACTUALLY CRITICAL ISSUE, what you really want to be doing? I don't know, this is just one person's take, I get that some of you have lives colored by discrimination and poo poo, but the unfortunate fact is there is nothing more important. I really wish Gore never made the documentary because it just turned it into another political issue instead of the only issue that actually MATTERS other than not engaging in nuclear war.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:37
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cosmicprank posted:You're all... kind of stupid for caring more about asinine social issues and branding each other racist for this reason and that reason than the real biggest issue on this planet. You realize this will never do anything but further divide this majority white nation (literally acknowledging that triggers most of you I'm sure, facts are tuff I kno) instead of caring about the actual fate of the planet. If you don't think the biggest tragedy of the Donald Trump presidency is anything but the fact that he is a CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER, I am sorry, you are short sighted and need to spend a few less hours on tumblr each day. Get in the climate change thread and realize none of your squabbles matter whatsoever. You, and massive swaths of both liberals and conservatives alike, are putting things like making sure there is equal representation of genders religions and races in every boardroom, coal mine and restaurant staff as a higher priority issue than keeping the oceans full of edible life. The hilarious irony is liberals really, really do not get that in a majority white nation, you will ALWAYS lose politically if you demonize white people (nice job with "white people don't know what it's like to be poor, Bernie, I'm sure the entire poor white rust belt just let that one slide") and you will NOT get them to all self-hate themselves and realize the errors of theirs and their ancestors ways, at least not any time before we're already having massive sects of our world population die from food insecurity. And yet you still think this is a "fight worth fighting". Ah, the old А у вас негров линчуют chestnut. We can only solve one problem at once, indeed, friend.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:40
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You're right, people should forget about their pesky civil rights being challenged constantly so that they can use their political power to uh... wait a second...
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Jan 11, 2017 02:42
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cosmicprank posted:My question is, is labeling each other racists and further contributing to a cultural division that will make it harder to come together on this ACTUALLY CRITICAL ISSUE, what you really want to be doing? I don't know, this is just one person's take, I get that some of you have lives colored by discrimination and poo poo, but the unfortunate fact is there is nothing more important. I really wish Gore never made the documentary because it just turned it into another political issue instead of the only issue that actually MATTERS other than not engaging in nuclear war. People are dying every day from racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism. Discrimination by class. Discrimination by age. Lack of access to healthcare. People are suffering. And we say that this does not matter, that the lives of people do not matter? Than why struggle against our extinction, if misery and suffering do not matter?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:43
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End boss Of SGaG* posted:You're right, people should forget about their pesky civil rights being challenged constantly so that they can use their political power to uh... wait a second... https://www.instagram.com/p/BOv2Bd4jxKW/ Just keep fighting for those civil rights til the extinction then.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:46
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Talmonis posted:The same way we've always won. With grindingly slow progress, tiny victories over generations that add up to a whole goddamn lot when taken from an overall view. Occasionally by using the army on Southerners. So, having defeated the racists in that particular run of battles, you decided it would be a good idea to adopt the tactics they used against you? You know racism is bad dude, so why are you trying to imply that racists using a tactic is any kind of validation for using it yourself? Especially when it's been a losing strategy for them for years. You've literally swapped roles within certain circles so that racists are the ones "being prosecuted" and you're the authority telling them how it is and attacking them when they step out of line. The older I get the more convinced I am that the progressive side of the culture war has formed its own orthodoxy such that real progressives get shunted to the side while conservative culture warriors on either side duke it out. Someone upthread mentioned that it's likely our position will be the conservative position of the future, but I think that poo poo already happened. Maybe the old conservatives held out just too long and we didn't get a proper hand-off, or maybe society split so far apart that 2 different parallel societies formed their own conservative movements. Either way it sure feels like we're stuck fighting 2 different conservative movements and it really sucks.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:47
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You both answered exactly as predicted. "But... the privileged white rich... they have it all and we don't..." Every single one of us, regardless of creed, color, and religion will have progeny that will suffer massively more than our charmed lives of internet arguments and if you think winning intellectual victories over the other side does anything for anyone other than your ego, lmao. Get in the climate change thread and stop labeling each other racist for this and that it's just such, such pathetic virtue signaling that does zero.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:48
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Brainiac Five posted:People are dying every day from racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism. Discrimination by class. Discrimination by age. Lack of access to healthcare. People are suffering. And we say that this does not matter, that the lives of people do not matter? Than why struggle against our extinction, if misery and suffering do not matter? Aight, I agree suffering is bad. So what does one do? Probably a lot of things, but I figure the best thing one can do is divide problems into smaller problems until they become something we can act upon. Paralysis due to not being able to do something concrete and understandable is tantamount to inaction.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:50
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cosmicprank posted:You both answered exactly as predicted. "But... the privileged white rich... they have it all and we don't..." "Virtue signaling", huh?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:51
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We haven't heard from the OP in awhile. Has this thread addressed your questions, Jenner?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:52
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Brainiac Five posted:People are dying every day from racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism. Discrimination by class. Discrimination by age. Lack of access to healthcare. People are suffering. And we say that this does not matter, that the lives of people do not matter? Than why struggle against our extinction, if misery and suffering do not matter? Dude, do you not get that people dying of not being able to live in a place in mass affects ALL PEOPLE? Like, there's no way to say it affects one race more than the other? If everyone has to literally evacuate the state of Florida in a few years, do you think ONLY THE POOR, DOWNTRODDEN are affected? What about all the poor white people you see in the state of Florida? Because they don't have a victim card because they're straight white not gay, not trans and can walk, gently caress them? This is what people literally believe and spend tons of time believing. This is the pathetic squabbling I'm talking about. People get insanely invested in this virtue signaling poo poo, honestly, I think, as a distraction for the biggest issue on the planet, one that they're not yet ready to face. And I get that, it's insanely depressing. But realize that millions of people squabbling over this poo poo is not proactive in the long run for the fate of the planet and humanity when we all intrinsically KNOW there is a much bigger loving problem to deal with than a few people suffering now; all people not existing if it needs to be spelled out. Sorry that you've spent hours and hours debating about something that isn't really that big a loving deal if you don't have food water land and ability to live in a particular place any more.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:53
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Brainiac Five posted:"Virtue signaling", huh? Is that supposed to be some sort of retort? I used a buzzword you think quoting will label my words untrue? I love liberals, really.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:54
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cosmicprank posted:Dude, do you not get that people dying of not being able to live in a place in mass affects ALL PEOPLE? Like, there's no way to say it affects one race more than the other? If everyone has to literally evacuate the state of Florida in a few years, do you think ONLY THE POOR, DOWNTRODDEN are affected? What about all the poor white people you see in the state of Florida? Because they don't have a victim card because they're straight white not gay, not trans and can walk, gently caress them? This is what people literally believe and spend tons of time believing. Climate change will kill a lot of people in poorer countries before richer countries, but you don't care about the facts, you just want to have your little fascist government aligned against an inhuman threat that can be as perpetual as you need it to be.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:55
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cosmicprank posted:Dude, do you not get that people dying of not being able to live in a place in mass affects ALL PEOPLE? Like, there's no way to say it affects one race more than the other? If everyone has to literally evacuate the state of Florida in a few years, do you think ONLY THE POOR, DOWNTRODDEN are affected? What about all the poor white people you see in the state of Florida? Because they don't have a victim card because they're straight white not gay, not trans and can walk, gently caress them? This is what people literally believe and spend tons of time believing. А у вас негров линчуют, indeed.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:55
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cosmicprank posted:My question is, is labeling each other racists and further contributing to a cultural division that will make it harder to come together on this ACTUALLY CRITICAL ISSUE, what you really want to be doing? I don't know, this is just one person's take, I get that some of you have lives colored by discrimination and poo poo, but the unfortunate fact is there is nothing more important. I really wish Gore never made the documentary because it just turned it into another political issue instead of the only issue that actually MATTERS other than not engaging in nuclear war. Why do you think nobody did anything about global warming during the Bush or Clinton years when all these academic debates about white privilege were much less mainstream and prior to An Inconvenient Truth coming out? Singling out those two issues as somehow being uniquely disruptive to taking action on climate change doesn't make any sense. There have been decades of ignored warnings and decades of American political culture become less and less capable of taking on serious challenges. This comes off as you taking a very serious issue -- climate change -- and using it as an excuse to rag on one of your pet peeves. Can you actually demonstrate some kind of strong link between academic debates on racism and inaction on climate change?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:55
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Of course I know that. You pointing that out illustrates my point EXACTLY. It's all about who gets what which group is more marginalized than the other, EVEN IN THE FACE OF OUR EXTINCTION AS A HUMAN RACE. I'm very, very aware that the Syrian War was precisely about climate change; tons and tons of agricultural citizens of Syria could no longer use their land because it had gotten way, way to hot, massive waves of rural Syrians moved to the city, and all hell broke lose. LMAO if you think that's going to stop any time soon and not worsen considerably. gently caress you saying I don't care about "facts", I don't even know what basis you have for that whatsoever.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:57
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glad we can only solve one problem at once, thanks for this clarification cosmic prank.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:58
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Helsing posted:Why do you think nobody did anything about global warming during the Bush or Clinton years when all these academic debates about white privilege were much less mainstream and prior to An Inconvenient Truth coming out? What is the pet peeve you're telling me that I have again? The fact that millions of people on the internet argue about asinine social issues instead of do ANYTHING to make the world more habitable for future generations while considering themselves virtuous for securing intellectual internet victories over the "other side"? Then yep, that's my pet peeve.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:59
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stone cold posted:glad we can only solve one problem at once, thanks for this clarification cosmic prank. With all his poo poo about the need to unify the rich and the poor, all we need is for him to start babbling about a caudillo to coordinate anticlimate efforts and he'll be full fash.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:59
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stone cold posted:glad we can only solve one problem at once, thanks for this clarification cosmic prank. This is actually my exact point. This problem is so, so dire, and swaths, literally swaths, millions of people actually consider it "virtuous" to talk about social issues on the internet all day and only be tangentially, slightly aware of what's happening with their planets ecosystem that enables these debates to even occur. It happens on both sides of the political spectrum, look at Ben Shapiro, he doesn't know poo poo about climate change and his opinions on it are actually embarrassing yet his life is dedicated to intellectual arguments with liberals.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:01
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stone cold posted:glad we can only solve one problem at once, thanks for this clarification cosmic prank. What problems are you solving, honestly, with this "The Culture War" thread. List the problems you're combatting and the progress this thread has made toward fixing said problems.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:02
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cosmicprank posted:This is actually my exact point. This problem is so, so dire, and swaths, literally swaths, millions of people actually consider it "virtuous" to talk about social issues on the internet all day and only be tangentially, slightly aware of what's happening with their planets ecosystem that enables these debates to even occur. It happens on both sides of the political spectrum, look at Ben Shapiro, he doesn't know poo poo about climate change and his opinions on it are actually embarrassing yet his life is dedicated to intellectual arguments with liberals. Are you more of a blackshirt or a brownshirt?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:03
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Brainiac Five posted:With all his poo poo about the need to unify the rich and the poor, all we need is for him to start babbling about a caudillo to coordinate anticlimate efforts and he'll be full fash. Never used those words. Brainiac Five posted:Are you more of a blackshirt or a brownshirt? No idea what those are, you're probably more versed in internet arguing terms than me.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:04
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Googled. You went Godwin's law? Pathetic.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:04
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cosmicprank posted:Never used those words. Do you find yourself raising your right hand involuntarily and shouting "Hail Victory"?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:05
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Did this dude at the end of his rope really go for Godwin's law, I mean, you probably have been in enough internet arguments to know that's kinda looked down on by everyone, right? Maybe ya'll in that much of a bubble.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:05
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cosmicprank posted:Did this dude at the end of his rope really go for Godwin's law, I mean, you probably have been in enough internet arguments to know that's kinda looked down on by everyone, right? Maybe ya'll in that much of a bubble. Do you find skulls, tasteless clothing, and leather (but i repeat myself) appealing? Do you find yourself calling people "Fraulein" by mistake?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:06
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cosmicprank posted:What is the pet peeve you're telling me that I have again? The fact that millions of people on the internet argue about asinine social issues instead of do ANYTHING to make the world more habitable for future generations while considering themselves virtuous for securing intellectual internet victories over the "other side"? Then yep, that's my pet peeve. What I'm asking you is why you picked this particular issue or this particular thread when your criticism would equally apply to the vast majority of political discourse? Our inability to deal with climate change is by far the greatest failure of our society in probably our entire history. It just kind of comes off as though you're being rather selective in who you blame here. Yeah arguments on the internet about microaggressions come off as petty and self-indulgent in the face of climate change, but so do people arguing about gun control or abortion or taxes or most other issues.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:06
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You're right, if we forget about social issues, the government can do what they want to fix things. Like China! Wait, that was the bad polluted one you just mentioned, wasn't it?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:07
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Helsing posted:What I'm asking you is why you picked this particular issue or this particular thread when your criticism would equally apply to the vast majority of political discourse? I picked this thread because I looked through the thread and it's honestly a pathetic thread. Look at it. It's asinine squabbling. Future generations suffering from what I've laid out would, 100%, be ashamed and likely enraged to read it. Yeah, I would say the same thing in abortion/taxes/gun control threads if I happened to go in them. Unless you're going to ban me you can't really tell me which threads to talk about which things. I earnestly think most people spend far too much time engaging in debate about longterm meaningless things for egoic reasons when there's only one issue. That's the point I'll scream til I'm dead. And yeah dude, America is China. Same issues, same population, same demographics. Good point.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:12
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cosmicprank posted:What problems are you solving, honestly, with this "The Culture War" thread. List the problems you're combatting and the progress this thread has made toward fixing said problems. How do humans halt or reverse the conditions currently warming the planet? How do we stop global warming?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:12
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Jack Gladney posted:How do humans halt or reverse the conditions currently warming the planet? How do we stop global warming? Are you honestly asking? I've told you multiple times to read the climate change thread. You won't. Equal representation of employed minorities at SeaWorld is a bigger issue.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:14
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cosmicprank posted:I picked this thread because I looked through the thread and it's honestly a pathetic thread. Look at it. It's asinine squabbling. Future generations suffering from what I've laid out would, 100%, be ashamed and likely enraged to read it. Do you reject modernism and follow the twin cults of tradition and action for action's sake?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:14
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cosmicprank posted:I picked this thread because I looked through the thread and it's honestly a pathetic thread. Look at it. It's asinine squabbling. Future generations suffering from what I've laid out would, 100%, be ashamed and likely enraged to read it. I'm glad that you came from heaven, above the fray to tell us how to think. Please lead us to the promised land, king of babies, o god!
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Jan 11, 2017 03:14
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cosmicprank posted:I picked this thread because I looked through the thread and it's honestly a pathetic thread. Look at it. It's asinine squabbling. Future generations suffering from what I've laid out would, 100%, be ashamed and likely enraged to read it. Why not pull this in the thread in gbs where they're arguing about the best way to ridicule a coprophile furry fetishist?
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Jan 11, 2017 03:15
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cosmicprank posted:Are you honestly asking? I've told you multiple times to read the climate change thread. You won't. Equal representation of employed minorities at SeaWorld is a bigger issue. It's very long. What's the pith of stopping global warming? Just boil it down to a paragraph and don't worry about the political practicality angle--just explain what humanity will have to do to save itself.
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Jan 11, 2017 03:17
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Bringing global warming into this debate seems kind of irrelevant, but it should be noted that the inability of activists to work pragmatically and achieve anything, without tearing each other apart, does stifle any kind of climate activism as well. I'm just not sure how many instances of real activism, being torn apart by petty conflict, it is going to take before finally, the Sufficiently Woke crowd here accepts that there might be a problem. We are currently entering a Republican/GOP strangehold on all branches of government, and the reaction has been to simply say ~everything is fine, stay the course~, continue to act like anti-social douchebags, and that 'slow, grinding, incremental progress' will occur. But that's not happening! At all! That's nothing but a fantasy. Surprise, telling people how terrible they are makes them dislike you, more than it does change their behavior. Telling them that it's against their interests to be good also doesn't exactly encourage anyone either - you're essentially telling them that fascism is in their self-interest. Then you get surprised when they go fascist. Wow. But all you have to do is pop open a history book to learn otherwise. People want to feel safe, they want to be happy. A fairer society can give that to them. But instead, what happens, is that rich Woke coastal elites, look at their foreign hired help cleaning their kitchens (which they pay below minimum wage), feel guilty about that class privilege, then project that as racial privilege onto white trailer trash dying from opioid overdosing. Like it's just absurd, the people who are actually benefiting from racialized oppression in this country, have the loving gall to tell the lowest white people that they are guilty, that they are what's wrong with America. The white (but increasingly diverse! Turns out non-whites can be assholes as well!) professionals get to advertise how Empathetic and Enlightened they are, without having to ever demonstrate or use a single empathic circuit in their brain, or put themselves in anyone else's shows for like 2 seconds. rudatron fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 05:43
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