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Antares posted:german isn't a race No, the Germans are of the swarthy race: "Thomas Jefferson posted" posted:Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.
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Dec 15, 2016 02:17
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Antares posted:german isn't a race Either is Islam but I keep hearing Babylon is racist. Or wait, is it Islamophobic? Sorry, I have trouble keeping track of how things are offensive sometimes!
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Dec 15, 2016 04:35
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Oh cool, a burst of posts in here. Did they announce a new seas... Oh. 
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Dec 15, 2016 05:11
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Either is Islam but I keep hearing Babylon is racist. Or wait, is it Islamophobic? Sorry, I have trouble keeping track of how things are offensive sometimes! There is nothing intrinsically racist about depicting an Islamic terror cell in the same way that there is nothing intrinsically racist about portraying a black man as a drug dealer. The problem, you see, is that racism is about institutional cultural suppression of racial groups. In this case, Middle Eastern groups in particular. Saving Private Ryan can't be racist against Germans because Germans are not a race and because racism is about minority groups, so no majority (white people) group can be the subject of racism in the context of a white-dominant culture. Of course, depicting all Germans as nazis can be, you know, unhealthy for a lot of other reasons that have nothing to do with racism and frankly, I kind of think it is. But for other reasons. If you cannot see the tonal and cultural difference between (for example) a movie where glorious American bastards kill lots of nazis and one where glorious American bastards murder their way through a similar number of Middle Eastern terrorists, I think we should probably hang up the discussion. Babylon is racist not because of its subject matter, but because it appeals to pre-existing ideas in the American consciousness, such as, "check out this guy, he's brown and got a bomb, I know what he's all about."
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Dec 15, 2016 21:09
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Mendrian posted:There is nothing intrinsically racist about depicting an Islamic terror cell in the same way that there is nothing intrinsically racist about portraying a black man as a drug dealer. The problem, you see, is that racism is about institutional cultural suppression of racial groups. In this case, Middle Eastern groups in particular. Thanks for the effort post. I guess I see where the disconnect comes. I apparently have a different, and admittedly more narrow definition of "racist". I.e., reflecting the belief that one race is superior to another. I think the downside to my definition is that it probably blinds me to things that I should be more sensitive to. A broader definition has its own drawbacks too, though. Racism to me is a very serious allegation but when everything is "racist", I would argue that word loses impact. I've said my piece and have a better understanding of other points of view though, so that's cool in my book.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:23
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Racism to me is a very serious allegation but when everything is "racist", I would argue that word loses impact. It's worse to mythologize racism to the point where you literally can't recognize it if it's not accompanied by the obvious slurs and symbols and white hoods.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:27
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The question you have to ask about Babylon is, "Was it critical to the story that they were Islamic terrorists?" I would have to argue, no. The plot setup was a framework for Mulder and Scully to explore their beliefs and where they place their faith. It was convenient to the writers to draw off the Paris attacks to do so, but it wasn't necessary or even tangential to the main plot. It could have just as easily been a extremist catholic group bombing an abortion clinic. Here is the reason why this is a conversation worth having. As the episode stands, it not only reinforces stereotypes, but it stokes the flames of fear and hate. Because it's a minority group, people don't have enough personal exposure to separate the fact that they are extremist rather than the norm. If it was a Catholic extremist group, people have enough exposure with Catholics to not paint everyone with the same brush. Sure, some would complain, but no one is talking about barring entry of Catholics to this country, so the social harm doesn't even approach the same.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:34
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Got through a few more episodes. At this point some episodes are definitely new to me, but some aren't. I guess I just wasn't watching consistently. I remembered Bad Blood and it was amazing still.
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Dec 19, 2016 16:45
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bull3964 posted:The question you have to ask about Babylon is, "Was it critical to the story that they were Islamic terrorists?" I think so, actually, yeah. At least non-english speaking terrorists. No, seriously, hear me out, though this is a little pretentious: The episode's called Babylon, right? So, it's meant to be a reflection on the Tower of Bable story from the Bible. Man created a space where everyone was equal, God knocked down their big tower and punished mankind with languages and division. (Or whatever, I'm not super familiar with the story.) So, Carter is clumsily using that allusion to talk about 9/11, and the two towers that fell that day -- extreme violence that generated racism and violence in return. His argument is that people became reactionary, and incapable of actually communicating with each other. Hence the nurse character in the episode, among others, who's completely hardened to the idea of empathy for her patient and tries to murder him. The only solution is to be found in re-establishing our subconscious connections -- through drug use, through the collective unconscious, through dreams and through music. That's why there are so many songs in the episode, I guess. And that's the solution to the episode's problem, as well. Mulder has to find a way to communicate with the boy, on a primal, pre-speech level, in order to convince him to stop a second bombing. Really ~listening~ and ~loving~ can beat racism and extremism. Yes, it's complete woo~woo~ but Carter's always been on that wavelength. It's honestly kind of sweet in a way, if also poorly communicated and badly thought out. BrainDead is probably a better execution of similar themes. And yes, I also think the episode is kinda racist. But I also think a lot of people missed the points Carter was trying to make (because, as I said, it didn't do a great job making them). Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 18:50
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To me the problem wasn't even that every single Muslim (save the mother) is a terrorist. You can have interesting stuff to say even with that plot. To me it was terrible because the big take home point was "we shouldn't pre judge people" because the one terrorist redeemed himself by telling Mulder of the plot from the afterlife. So it wasn't even the "all Muslims are terrorist" part that bugged me, but the "we shouldn't prejudge all Muslims, this one here felt regret shortly before he killed dozens of innocent people."
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Dec 19, 2016 22:05
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joepinetree posted:To me the problem wasn't even that every single Muslim (save the mother) is a terrorist. You can have interesting stuff to say even with that plot. To me it was terrible because the big take home point was "we shouldn't pre judge people" because the one terrorist redeemed himself by telling Mulder of the plot from the afterlife. So it wasn't even the "all Muslims are terrorist" part that bugged me, but the "we shouldn't prejudge all Muslims, this one here felt regret shortly before he killed dozens of innocent people." i seriously thought the start of the episode was misdirection and it turns out they're completely innocent but something spooky happens to them. surely in 2016 they wouldn't run with something so on the nose that it would've been rejected by the producers of 24 as too stereotypical
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Dec 19, 2016 23:23
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 Sleepy little farming town in New Hampshire and what newspaper do they read? One of the major Canadian national newspapers  What I also like about the episode is that one of the main actors from the Canadian sitcom Corner Gas plays a minor role in the episode and it's so weird seeing a young her in The X-files.
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Jan 9, 2017 07:04
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Chairman Capone posted:Only problem I had with this episode was that they dealt with a tulpa before in... 7th season? The one where they go undercover as a married couple in the yuppie neighborhood where people who don't take care of their lawns get killed by the homeowner's association leader summoning a tulpa.
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Jan 9, 2017 10:56
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Racism to me is a very serious allegation but when everything is "racist", I would argue that word loses impact. Nah man Muslims are a monolithic victim class and require the valiant defense of white liberals to survive, so any talk about terrorism makes me super uncomfortable and squirmy since I'm really only comfortable criticizing bad things white people do. A terrorman killed a bunch of people in Europe somewhere? Better bring up the crusades and how racist they were. I mean, guys, did you know that in spite of often being depicted as terrorists in western media, not *ALL* Muslims are terrorists? I'll bet that you did not know this, but now you do. Behold my moral clarity. Also: Broad brush, nuance, etc...
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Jan 10, 2017 19:07
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More thought has been put into the posts on this page than went into the actual episode of Babylon, AKA the one where Mulder convinces himself he's tripping balls on a placebo
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Jan 10, 2017 21:53
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Being afraid of being labeled as a racist so bad that you are willing to turn your eyes away from institutional cultural/ideological suppression of groups that you are in defense of otherwise is cool. Or so it seems. Anyway that last season really sucked.
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Jan 10, 2017 22:22
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Soft Shell Crab posted:Being afraid of being labeled as a racist so bad that you are willing to turn your eyes away from institutional cultural/ideological suppression of groups that you are in defense of otherwise is cool. Or so it seems. Anyway that last season really sucked. rhys darby ep was good.
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Jan 11, 2017 07:06
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GutBomb posted:Oh cool, a burst of posts in here. Did they announce a new seas... Actually, Fox said at the TCA today that they hope to announce something soon, and later clarified that the intention is to do a longer run than six episodes but less than a full 22-episode season.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:07
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Timby posted:Actually, Fox said at the TCA today that they hope to announce something soon, and later clarified that the intention is to do a longer run than six episodes but less than a full 22-episode season. I know a few months ago at least, the rumor was that they wanted to do a 10 episode season.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:24
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I'm not sure having more episodes per season will help Chris Carter become a better writer.
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Jan 11, 2017 21:44
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UnknownMercenary posted:I'm not sure having more episodes per season will help Chris Carter become a better writer. But it might allow Darin Morgan to write more than one.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:00
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bull3964 posted:But it might allow Darin Morgan to write more than one. Have Darin Morgan write all the episodes and Chris Carter write none.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:08
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They need to get some of their successful writers and directors back, plus commission scripts from current writers when watched the show as kids/stoner teens. Get Seth Green back as the stoner teen.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:21
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Just get all the Fringe writers who aren't named Orci or Kurtsman to write for the new season. Open this poo poo up to new blood because the old alien hybrid super soldier blood ain't working.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:40
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At this point it's all so hosed up that I'd rather have a total reboot. Go back to young FBI agents investigating weird poo poo in small towns including the occasional supposed alien abduction. Ditch ALL of the bullshit mythology and build a new, different thing from scratch (but still about aliens) Fun twist: Scully is Spooky (and had a younger brother named Sam who disappeared), Mulder is the religious but skeptical medical doctor.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:54
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Hedrigall posted:At this point it's all so hosed up that I'd rather have a total reboot. Go back to young FBI agents investigating weird poo poo in small towns including the occasional supposed alien abduction. Ditch ALL of the bullshit mythology and build a new, different thing from scratch (but still about aliens) So Fringe, essentially.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:59
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Yeah but Fringe was 100% weird science and alternate universes. This will be 100% aliens and paranormal Also Fringe was great but never captured the weird small town USA feeling of early XF.
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Jan 12, 2017 03:04
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Hedrigall posted:At this point it's all so hosed up that I'd rather have a total reboot. Go back to young FBI agents investigating weird poo poo in small towns including the occasional supposed alien abduction. Ditch ALL of the bullshit mythology and build a new, different thing from scratch (but still about aliens) Even though I would be onboard with a full-on reboot, I think the problem with doing something with this is that, like alluded to above and I think earlier in this thread, is that X-Files has inspired/been copied by so many shows since (Fringe, Warehouse 13, Supernatural, Buffy, even modern Doctor Who, etc.) that if you take out the connectivity of the show to its past and its history, it would be hard to differentiate itself to the wider viewing public. (And of course something with really high quality would stick out... but that's probably not a big likelihood.)
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Jan 12, 2017 03:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Just get all the Fringe writers who aren't named Orci or Kurtsman to write for the new season. Open this poo poo up to new blood because the old alien hybrid super soldier blood ain't working. Whenever I do a series rewatch, the moment someone starts yammering about super soldiers is when I'm done.
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Jan 12, 2017 05:46
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Jack Gladney posted:They need to get some of their successful writers and directors back, plus commission scripts from current writers when watched the show as kids/stoner teens. Get Seth Green back as the stoner teen. Now Castle's done, Rob Bowman's free. ~*
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Jan 12, 2017 08:34
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I think a major element differentiating Fringe from the X-Files is that Fringe dove headfirst into exploring its sci-fi elements as thoroughly as possible, whereas X-Files had a thematic interest in keeping information out of reach, covered up, unproveable by the characters. It wouldn't really be the X-Files if it got to the point Fringe did where they were routinely like "let's take this case to our alternate-dimension selves, who are now our colleagues".
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Jan 12, 2017 08:56
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Yeah, X-Files and Fringe are more of a Venn diagram than 1a and 1b. But in more general terms, Fringe is very good and characters-focused. The new X-Files season was not very good and the character work felt disingenuous and forced. Good writers can meet the needs of a project. JH Wyman doing Fringe would own. quote:"I said last week that this show was the successor to The X-Files. This episode nailed that assertion down. I have never before seen an episode that so closely resembled that much beloved show—all that was missing was Mark Snow's music to make me believe I had stumbled into a long-lost, forgotten episode (well, that, and the absence of David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson)... The creepy atmosphere, the brooding skies of Vancouver, the general air of secrets and mystery all contributed to a wonderfully creepy episode, full of all the surprises and even revulsion of Chris Carter's masterpiece. I have to admit, as well, that Walter Bishop's explanations make a hell of a lot more sense than Mulder's."
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Jan 12, 2017 12:18
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It's crazy how long TV seasons used to be. I just finished season 5, so I have 84 episodes to go. Plus two movies.  One one hand I know it's going to get bad, but on the flip side they are all new to me and I know there are some gems scattered in there. Plus, you never know, I may even like the "bad" seasons. LOST never got bad to me, I even loved the ending.
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Jan 16, 2017 02:44
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:It's crazy how long TV seasons used to be. I just finished season 5, so I have 84 episodes to go. Plus two movies. Meh, I say stop after Mulder discovers what happened to his sister halfway through season 7. Is it a good answer? Probably not. But it ties up the biggest question of the show, like it or not. There are a handful of decent, even good, episodes after, but the show just fizzles out so sadly.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:09
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You should do that, but you should also just watch the finale to experience it. Not because its good.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:28
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I got about 20 minutes into that and started fast forwarding to see if the entire episode was going to continue where it seemed to be. I couldn't believe it. That's where a good chunk of your episode takes place? Wowwee. And the end "battle" is the silliest thing.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:37
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I just watched Inside The X-Files, it's a bonus episode to hype the movie. Chris Carters hair in all its 90s glory was impressive.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:30
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:I just watched Inside The X-Files, it's a bonus episode to hype the movie. Chris Carters hair in all its 90s glory was impressive. It was a simpler time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wijp4-3giNw
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Jan 17, 2017 01:47
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Fight the Future was actually pretty good....until the end.
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Jan 18, 2017 13:57
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piratepilates posted:
Brent butt is also in one of the episodes as a coroner who dies and it's amazing.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:09
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