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Quiet Feet posted:I plug it in. It doesn't work. I re-situate the deck enhancer cartridge. It doesn't work. I take the ADE out of the NES, which is difficult to do with a mini-cart inside as there's nowhere to grip, but only slightly awkward without it. I re-sit the mini cartridge. It doesn't work. I try it in a different console. It doesn't work. I try everything I've previously tried on the second console including giving it a cleaning, which theoretically it shouldn't need. It doesn't work. IIRC, it's doing bad things to try to bypass the NES10 that do not always work. There were similar products in Japan but those were licensed. They also didn't have good games, though. 
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Jan 11, 2017 14:44
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Random Stranger posted:IIRC, it's doing bad things to try to bypass the NES10 that do not always work. IIRC it shoots out some serious voltage to try to overload the 10NES into not working.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:46
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So would it work 100% in a toploader or a cut 10-NES system, or not work at all?
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Jan 11, 2017 14:52
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Elliotw2 posted:So would it work 100% in a toploader or a cut 10-NES system, or not work at all? Both of the toaster consoles I tried it in have had their lockout chips clipped and I've played Tengen and Camerica games without issue before. I just assumed this would work automatically but I guess not. If it's basically trying to defibrillate my NES every single time I start it, I don't think I'm going to be using this much at all. Not that there were any immediate plans to.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:58
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univbee posted:IIRC it shoots out some serious voltage to try to overload the 10NES into not working. Yeah, a lot of unlicensed poo poo just tries to voltage spike the thing into submission. Keyword: tries, because it's unreliable.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:58
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Or am I wrong on that count? What the gently caress do I need to play a SNES and my sweet, sweet Star Fox 2 cart on my HDTV without spending, like, $200? Preferably without hooking six things up in-between the actual console and the television. The sort of gotcha with videogame consoles is that they're generally putting out a signal that's really not standards-compliant. We're talking about devices outputting 60 frames per second with scrolling and the like when PC's costing several thousand might not even do the same at literally 1 fps. Old consoles are employing all sorts of tricks in order to get basically anything output, and the way the old CRT TV's work actually does anticipate a certain degree of variance in the signal due to how wonky those could be historically, but when TV's shifted to LCD the newer consoles of that era like the PS2 as well as TV broadcasts were putting out a more stable and standards-compliant signal. Now the issue with a lot of cheaper upscalers, other than being cheap electronics, is that 99% of the time their use case begins and ends with "VHS" which is generally more stable and also not a problem if the signal it's outputting is quite a ways behind because it's not really interactive. So you need a device which specifically addresses the types of issues found exclusively on old video game consoles, has extremely low lag since it's an interactive medium, all for something which is generally considered extremely niche since for the market as a whole, solutions like the HDMI-outputting RetroN 5 and Wii/Wii U Virtual Console are considered good enough solutions. Micomsoft is pretty much the only company which makes a device specifically designed for this purpose, and have been doing so almost as long as LCD televisions have been a thing (although their older devices output to VGA, the Framemeister/XRGB Mini is their only unit which does HDMI which has its own challenges too). The box you're getting has some pretty heavy-duty technology and serves a very niche purpose, hence its higher price. tl;dr the "hook up old console to new HDTV" problem is more technically complicated than it appears, and there aren't really low-cost solutions if you don't want to use a different TV. It's not the thread being elitist or insisting on perfection because a "cheap and good enough" upscaler solution exists (it doesn't). univbee fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 15:13
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Quiet Feet posted:Both of the toaster consoles I tried it in have had their lockout chips clipped and I've played Tengen and Camerica games without issue before. I just assumed this would work automatically but I guess not. There used to be a guide around that told you how to disconnect the circuitry that attempts to send voltage spikes, though it would obviously permanently prevent it from running in an unmodified toaster NES. univbee posted:
There is though. Just hook the console up directly. Sometimes it works fine and looks fine, and then you didn't need anything extra. As a bonus, you even end up with less lag than you might otherwise get from adding another processing/upscaling stage. The only problem is that this doesn't work on all TVs. fishmech fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 17:52
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I've hooked my Dreamcast into a number of HDTVs and haven't had an issue yet
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Jan 11, 2017 18:02
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Question: For whatever reason my Framemeister will not pipe out audio over HDMI no matter what I try. If I get a male - male SCART cable with stereo audio breakout to pipe the sound directly into speakers will the ~2 frames of lag discrepancy between the video and audio be noticeable/maddening? edit: I'm looking at these unless someone can recommend a better quality cable http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6-5ft-S...jYAAOSwwpdW6rxb SnatchRabbit fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 18:10
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Every one of my TVs looks like poo poo over composite. I have a few CRTs, including a Trinitron. I know what to expect. I just don't have the space or want to set up a CART in my small living room. I've moved on. My argument is, people poo poo all over the Retrovision cables for :reasons:, but I don't see how it's bad in my use case scenario. (When in stock) they seem much cheaper than a framemeister (JFC $900?), I don't have to hook up anything else, and my component input does show a grey scale picture on the green input (I've had to do that before, setting up a VGA adapter with my PS2). I'm just asking, is there anything particularly wrong or bad about that cable? Other than it being a single-console solution, I mean. As I said, I'm okay with that. That's all. I don't necessarily want an answer to fit my thoughts on it. If it's legitimately poo poo for a real reason, that's cool, I'll look elsewhere for a solution. And do a whatever SCART and box, even though I don't really want to do that. I'm not "getting mad at the thread."
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Jan 11, 2017 18:59
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The one gotcha is that I think the signal being output is 240p, which TV's aren't terribly likely to expect or be able to handle (but not unheard of). The signal cadence could also otherwise throw off your TV. Aside from that, there isn't anything wrong with those cables so you might as well gamble and try it out; if it works, awesome. If not, hell I'll probably buy that cable off you. One of 3 things will happen: 1. Won't work at all, like your TV will say "no signal" or "incompatible signal" kind of thing. 2. You'll get a picture and sound but unacceptable lag, could even be a full second or two. 3. It'll work fine. The $900 for the Framemeister is an anomaly with people paying scalpers on eBay, normal price is $350-400 (Solaris Japan has them for this price). So...still a lot, but $500ish cheaper. univbee fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 19:02
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The trick is that you don't actually need RGB. It's absolutely a nicer cleaner picture, and I'd love to be able to afford modding all my consoles and getting a Frameister, but a component PS2, s-video SNES, or just a plain old composite NES is still perfectly enjoyable.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:15
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Every one of my TVs looks like poo poo over composite. I have a few CRTs, including a Trinitron. I know what to expect. I just don't have the space or want to set up a CART in my small living room. I've moved on. Give the retrovision cables a shot. You'll be able to sell them if they don't work out. Hell, PM me, I'd be willing to try them out. Someone I follow on twitter and whose opinion I respect uses and enjoys them. Not everyone needs to go full upscaler.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:22
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Dr. Dos posted:The trick is that you don't actually need RGB. It's absolutely a nicer cleaner picture, and I'd love to be able to afford modding all my consoles and getting a Frameister, but a component PS2, s-video SNES, or just a plain old composite NES is still perfectly enjoyable. I only really got interested in RGB when I started in on MSXs. For some reason my brain wasn't cool without pc-monitor-like resolution to match the "computer" I was using. Before that I would just plug everything into the composite jacks on my HDTV.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:31
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Just an FYI about HD retrovision is that 240p over component can sometimes react weirdly with modern TVs. Like this:  (in this case this is a PS2 hooked up via component and running a PSX game)
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Jan 11, 2017 19:35
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Every one of my TVs looks like poo poo over composite. I have a few CRTs, including a Trinitron. I know what to expect. I just don't have the space or want to set up a CART in my small living room. I've moved on. They're a very nice upgrade over composite if your TV accepts them, and the cables are high quality. I currently use one on my N64 and one on my Genesis (snes doesn't work on my screen). The lag introduced by the cables is insignificant, but your TV might add its own lag. What model TV do you have?
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Jan 11, 2017 19:45
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Somehow I am allowed to return the chinese knockoff of the Everdrive 64 I got from Amazon a while back, so I am getting a legit one now. But should I go with the 2.5 or 3.0? The later I know has saving and Animal Crossing support, but anything more beyond that?
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Jan 11, 2017 20:25
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Rirse posted:Somehow I am allowed to return the chinese knockoff of the Everdrive 64 I got from Amazon a while back, so I am getting a legit one now. But should I go with the 2.5 or 3.0? The later I know has saving and Animal Crossing support, but anything more beyond that? Pokémon Stadium 2 and not having to reset before turning off your system to save games in SRAM/Flash.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:30
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Rirse posted:Somehow I am allowed to return the chinese knockoff of the Everdrive 64 I got from Amazon a while back, so I am getting a legit one now. But should I go with the 2.5 or 3.0? The later I know has saving and Animal Crossing support, but anything more beyond that? Mine is a 2.5 and it works great. I have forgotten to reset before I turn it off a couple times and lost a bit of progress in OoT once that way but I don't play my N64 often enough to think that extra $75 or so would be worth it.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:33
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Yeah I probably get the 2.5. Especially when not every game uses the internal save and has to use the controller pack instead.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:33
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Every one of my TVs looks like poo poo over composite. I have a few CRTs, including a Trinitron. I know what to expect. I just don't have the space or want to set up a CART in my small living room. I've moved on. I kickstarted them and have an SNES and a Genesis one I use with my CDX. I used them both on my Mitubishi DLP and it was a night and day difference. Since moving and having more room, I have them both going into a CRT now and they look magical. The cables are nice, and they're nice and cheap alternatives to dedicated scalers, etc. The only downside I see is that they're heavily targeted (only work on a specific console, etc) but if it works for you then it works for you.
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Jan 11, 2017 21:03
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Every one of my TVs looks like poo poo over composite. I have a few CRTs, including a Trinitron. I know what to expect. I just don't have the space or want to set up a CART in my small living room. I've moved on. Nobody has poo poo over the Retrovision cables. Their only caveats are that they're kind of high-priced for being a single console cable, and that they're still 240p and there's a not-insignificant chance that your HDTV won't play nice with them because it's non-standard or out of the signal range it can handle or whatever (which the cable manufacturer has noted). This risk applies to any non-scaled video solution on an HDTV, though. Also, they won't help avoid the prospect of input lag, especially if you're leaving the scaling and picture formatting up to your TV and it has a low-end internal scaler. If you're willing to chance all this, go wild and get one and report back to the thread.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:22
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Okay, sorry, and thanks. I was getting weird vibes from the thread. I'll definitely check them out and report back. My TVs are all (other than the Trinitron) poo poo-tier Hisense and the like LCD screens of varying sizes, and a nice Optoma projector. Thankfully, two of the screens have a "game" mode that disables most features and software scaling, and are down in the 20-30ms lag range versus the 200+ of the standard modes (measured with a color calibration tool, forgot what it's called but it sticks on the screen and calibrates the Nvidia output colors for proofing - my fiancee does graphic design on the side). To be sure, I'll dig out the old PC with the 6800gtx card that has component output and test a 240p signal (dabbled with it with MAME back in the day) before ebaying or buying a Retrovision cable. Thanks again. I thought there was something inherently wrong with them based on attitude towards it, but was wrong.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:47
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Improbable Lobster posted:I've hooked my Dreamcast into a number of HDTVs and haven't had an issue yet Because it's a 480i signal, not 240p like a SNES e: a tiny minority of DC games do output 240p
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Jan 11, 2017 23:52
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:My TVs are all (other than the Trinitron) poo poo-tier Hisense and the like LCD screens of varying sizes, and a nice Optoma projector. Thankfully, two of the screens have a "game" mode that disables most features and software scaling, and are down in the 20-30ms lag range versus the 200+ of the standard modes (measured with a color calibration tool, forgot what it's called but it sticks on the screen and calibrates the Nvidia output colors for proofing - my fiancee does graphic design on the side). To be sure, I'll dig out the old PC with the 6800gtx card that has component output and test a 240p signal (dabbled with it with MAME back in the day) before ebaying or buying a Retrovision cable. Sure, it's no problem. A better test might be to put your SNES composite cable into the green plug of your TV's component (or YPbPr) plug and see if you get a signal on your TV that way. It's probably simpler and more accurate than trying it with a PC. Actually, it looks like the Retrovision folks go into some detail about all this, so I'd definitely advise reading the page below before you go to all the hassle of hooking a bunch of stuff up: http://www.hdretrovision.com/240p/
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Jan 11, 2017 23:55
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d0s posted:Because it's a 480i signal, not 240p like a SNES also the dreamcast's VGA output is quirky and may not play nicely with some HDTVs.
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Jan 11, 2017 23:57
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The reason I personally don't like the retrovision cables is: 1). They are misleadingly marketed as "HD Retrovision but will not do anything to make the system work on an HDTV that won't take the signal without them 2.) A SCART cable along with a transcoder (not the same thing as an upscaler, which is what a framemiester is) will do exactly the same thing as the retrovision cables, with the added benefit of allowing you to use any system that outputs RGB via a SCART cable with component. I do think the retrovision cables are perfectly fine if you are sure you only want to use one system in component, and understand the limitations. They're really more useful when working with CRT TVs with component inputs than with HDTVs which is why the misleading name sucks so much.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:03
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d0s posted:The reason I personally don't like the retrovision cables is: That SCART-Component box you linked has "HDTV CONVERTER" and "SCART >> HDTV" plastered all over it. 
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Jan 12, 2017 00:24
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wa27 posted:That SCART-Component box you linked has "HDTV CONVERTER" and "SCART >> HDTV" plastered all over it. Because it's designed to take a 480i/480p signal from e.g. a DVD player, but also works with 240p game systems. It's not marketed as "lets you play 240p game systems on your HDTV"
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Jan 12, 2017 00:25
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d0s posted:Because it's designed to take a 480i/480p signal from e.g. a DVD player, but also works with 240p game systems. It's not marketed as "lets you play 240p game systems on your HDTV" They are marketing it in a really confusing way: quote:This product provides high resolution HDTV quality output Talk about misleading. It's not changing the resolution or outputting anything close to HD resolutions.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:27
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OK if you're uncomfortable with that you can get this one which does the exact same thing but doesn't have a weirdly worded description http://www.ebay.com/itm/291814589688
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Jan 12, 2017 00:33
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You were the one uncomfortable with the Retrovision name in the first place?
Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 01:13
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:You were the one uncomfortable with the Retrovision name in the first place? Yeah dude misleading marketing sucks no matter what the product is, I had honestly never read the blurb for the shinybow device as personally I use an ambery, it's just a device that pops up a lot as also being good, and it's cheaper. It's still not making the same claim as the retrovision cables, and does in fact output a signal that is HDTV compatible when used with the products it's designed for. It's dumb to call 480i/p "high resolution" but it's even dumber to call 240P that. I'm not sure why you're acting confrontational in this thread full of people trying to help you.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:19
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Yesterday I realized a small retro gaming truth: that Ranma 1/2 Hard Battle kinda sucks. I was messing about with it on an emulator and couldn't get anywhere really, usually I can work out a move or two. I could just blame the funky control layout but it didn't really click with me and I didn't want to put in the time to learn it. Ah well that's one less game to seek out in the wild, as it is my SNES collections probably gonna top out at five games and emulation for the rest. Semi-related, which Sailor Moon SFC game was the good fighting game again?
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Jan 12, 2017 04:08
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It's a New Age Retro Christmas Part Last: Everyone Shut up and Talk About Wario's Woods Yup, it's Wario's Woods!   At $60, this is the only game that came anything close to expensive, depending on your definition. It's also the only one that still costs about the same new in 2016 as it did when it was released in December of 1994. It's the last official game ever released for the NES, the only one with an ESRB rating and the only title on the system to feature Wario. It's another puzzle game and I figure it can't be any worse than Zoop.  Nice. The dust sleeve is a super fancypants sparkly version of the regular Nintendo red-letter ones. On closer inspection, the label is coming apart from the cartridge on top. This is not the first time I've seen this and it seems kinda common in later titles. The sealed copy of Overlord I opened last year had the same problem, and that came out in 1993. Makes you think that there must have been some manufacturing changes at the time, which wouldn't be surprising as the NES was well on its way to wrapping up.  The games on this poster were old when the poster was new. Makes u think. I'm scared. It's pretty rare I drop this amount of money on a game, let alone a new one. Let alone an old new one.  It's charming right off. The intro screen shows a little vignette with Toad blowing up a few monsters and surreptitiously demonstrating how to play the game. In some ways it's a pretty typical puzzler: colored objects fall from the sky, you line them up, vertically, horizontally or diagonally, and make them go boom. This is accomplished by moving Toad around the screen and picking up and moving the various monsters or bombs that drop from above. But there are a few things that are a little unexpected from an NES game. First, among the different modes is a "lesson" mode where you can learn how to play, and this is handy because Toad has a pretty good variety of moves available. You can not only pick up stacks of monsters/bombs but can kick them, or drop a stack and shoot to the top if you get stuck beneath it. You can also run up or down a stack and pull a monster or bomb out of the middle. Kicking a stack pushes the bottom object out, be it a monster or bomb, and drops the rest of the stack down a square. There are multiple modes to play through. The meat of Wario's Woods is the Round Game. Basically moving from round to round and clearing the screen of the monsters that inhabit it. It's a little like Dr. Mario in that regard, although Wario can come along and add more monsters later on if you don't finish the round fast enough. Round Game type A progresses pretty much like a normal puzzle game. Type B, however, makes it more interesting by including boss battles.  Now that right there is a really cool feature and while it's probably been done at least one mroe time since 1994, I'm not a huge puzzle game guy and I definitely can't recall seeing it in anything up to that point on the NES. You collect coins after each round and earn a continue after you get 30 (iirc), with the amount dropped dependent on how quickly you beat the round. The music is cheerful and reminds me just a little bit of Kirby's Adventure. Graphics are what you'd expect out of the late era NES. It's 8-bit, but 8-bit where they knew their poo poo.Did I mention this game has a battery backup and saves your progress in round play? Did not expect that. Above all what makes this enjoyable and sets it apart from something bland like Zoop is that the parts aren't just parts. Zoops marching multicolored blobs are just useless bits of garbage filling the screen. The enemies in Wario's woods have little animations and even names like Fuzz and Spud. Zoop's transition to a new round is to have the screen iris out and then back in. Wario's Woods has Toad. Zoop has a cursor. Wario's Woods has a goddamn story. And if I can complain a little further about Zoop now, that's the problem. They took no opportunity to skin the moving parts as anything other than what they were. Why not say that your cursor is the experimental XJ-35 starfighter and the approaching shapes are an alien plague? Draw a solar system in the background and call it the Garglaxanon. Gimme something. Nintendo got it right because they not only made a game with enjoyable mechanics but they dressed them up as something cute and whimsical. It's the difference between a dancing singing mouse at Chuck E Cheese and a writhing metal carcass that wants you to have fun on your birthday. Disappointment level: none Worth it? This one alone scratched the new/sealed game itch I had better than the rest combined and there's something funny about the cost being more or less the same as it was when it came out over 20 years ago. It's pretty easy to find copies of Wario's Woods for $60-ish. Hell, I just did a quick Ebay search after writing this and it's actually easier to find sealed copies than used CIB ones, of which the only ones I saw were $52 and $90. I've seen auctions end as low as $40 for NiB. If you're considering buying one and you're the kind of person who has to have everything complete, seriously just buy it new. Aftermath From this  to this  I went with quantity over quality this year and it definitely shows. Not only did I open up 3 more games this year than last year, there are actually still 5 more I decided to save for next Christmas. Basically I could've opened nearly twice what I did the first year I set out to do this, and that with only about 60% of the budget. Thing is, while I don't feel too much buyer's remorse over any of these, it's primarily because I got them so cheap. While there's plenty that's playable, the only two games I really had to pull myself away from were Wario's Woods and Coaster Works, and the latter I suspect does not have a hell of a lot of content. Xmas 2015 saw a few games that I knew I hadn't played in at least a decade but definitely had warm fuzzies for (Light Cursader, Mega Man Collection, ONE) or were a sequel to something I enjoyed ( Chrono Cross), and that was a pretty good, solid core. This year was more "oh, yeah, what the hell I can afford that." I'll be doing this again next Christmas and so forth until it becomes unfeasible. Might also do more peripherals, controllers and the like but I definitely want to shift focus further form the bargain bin titles and more on games I've forgotten about over the years. In conclusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6s1FbBMcNw&t=17s
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Jan 12, 2017 05:21
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I don't like the specific games you're doing (apart from a few of the DC ones) but I'm always really happy to see people opening sealed stuff and playing it. I could never bring myself to pay extra for that experience but I'll live vicariously through you
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Jan 12, 2017 05:43
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I picked a multicade dirt cheap because it's not working right. It's a Global Arcade Classics machine. http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2164/2103575-global_arcade_classics.jpg It has 80 games and what looks like a primitive version of hyperspin. It's got a pc in it running JoshuaOS. When you power it on, it starts the boot process, then starts loading the software and then the pc shuts off. If I turn it back on it does the same thing even sooner. It's as if it is overheating. It has onboard video and all of the fans are running. It seems to be a pentium four.I took it out of the cab and hooked it to another monitor and changed the power supply and got the same results. I don't have another cpu to try. I'm leaning toward upgrading the computer anyways. Does anyone have suggestions on what I should do for an operating system? I really don't see myself using it for console games. Only arcade machines. I want it to pretend to be an arcade machine when I flip the power switch on the back. cosmicjim fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 07:15
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Turbinosamente posted:Yesterday I realized a small retro gaming truth: that Ranma 1/2 Hard Battle kinda sucks. I was so out of my mind hyped about this game when I was a kid, I was waaay into Ranma [because Ranma owns] and to find out that there was an english version of a Ranma game? SIGN ME UP I liked it then, but yeah it's hard to pick up now.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:23
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Quiet Feet posted:It's a New Age Retro Christmas Part Last: Everyone Shut up and Talk About Wario's Woods I've enjoyed these and can't wait to see what you have next year!
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Jan 12, 2017 07:29
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cosmicjim posted:Does anyone have suggestions on what I should do for an operating system? Windows with GroovyMAME e: Code Jockey posted:I was so out of my mind hyped about this game when I was a kid, I was waaay into Ranma [because Ranma owns] and to find out that there was an english version of a Ranma game? SIGN ME UP Yeah same, I used to read the comic book size volumes of the manga they had back then, and rented the game from the video store a ton
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Jan 12, 2017 07:55
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