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all of which are terrible ideas except maybe possibly the barghest edit: i wasnt kidding when i said you should run nighthawk fleet btw
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Jan 11, 2017 18:24
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Venom Snake posted:We live in goku! Most of our time is spent making fits Got to do something productive while you're mining or ratting your life away.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:22
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madjack posted:all of which are terrible ideas except maybe possibly the barghest I never said we come up with good fits but yeah iv tried to convince the powers that be that nighthawks are good
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Jan 11, 2017 19:37
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Zephyrine posted:Help me Flanders! You can't. You can outtank a naglfar, but with either cruise or torp you do less damage, with torps a moving capship or most poses will sigtank you, and you're easily out of range of things. This will take either cruise or torps with no fitting change, but torps only hit out to 55 so good luck? (javelin goes out to 80, but even less dps). [Phoenix, Anti-Cap] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Capital Implacable Compact Emergency Hull Energizer Capital Shield Extender II Capital Shield Extender II Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pith C-Type EM Ward Field Pith X-Type Thermal Dissipation Field Capital Shield Extender II Siege Module II XL Torpedo Launcher II, Guristas Scourge XL Torpedo XL Torpedo Launcher II, Guristas Scourge XL Torpedo XL Torpedo Launcher II, Guristas Scourge XL Torpedo Heavy Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer Capital Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Capital Core Defense Field Extender I Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
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Jan 11, 2017 20:08
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Booley posted:You can't. You can outtank a naglfar, but with either cruise or torp you do less damage, with torps a moving capship or most poses will sigtank you, and you're easily out of range of things. This will take either cruise or torps with no fitting change, but torps only hit out to 55 so good luck? (javelin goes out to 80, but even less dps). Doesn't a Naglfar with high damage T2 ammo have an ootimal of like 16 km and 19 with em ammo? Also since the Phoenix already has such a large tank I wad thinking you could put a few mids towards application modules. I mean why go for a tank of 5 million or so ehp when you're the last target anyway? Might as well scale it down to the 2.5 range and still have a large tank.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:57
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https://zkillboard.com/kill/58712192/ the phoenix is good for something at least
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Jan 11, 2017 21:08
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On the subject of Lif fits I present this chap's fit https://zkillboard.com/kill/59060501/ he just would not die
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Jan 11, 2017 21:09
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Venom Snake posted:I never said we come up with good fits but yeah iv tried to convince the powers that be that nighthawks are good Nighthawks are Drakes that are better in every way. Sadly in big fights they kinda suck because HML application is awful. And with hams they have no range. Better off with sleipnirs or vultures in most cases if you're gonna run a shield command ship doctrine.
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Jan 11, 2017 21:18
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L0cke17 posted:Nighthawks are Drakes that are better in every way. Sadly in big fights they kinda suck because HML application is awful. And with hams they have no range. Better off with sleipnirs or vultures in most cases if you're gonna run a shield command ship doctrine. this is was for holesquad specifically, which does a lot of brawling at 0 on holes, so rage kinetic hams + standard crash + one web = 800+ full dps application on an afterburning t3 (assuming command ships 5) proteus fleets may be an issue..
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Jan 11, 2017 21:23
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L0cke17 posted:Nighthawks are Drakes that are better in every way. Sadly in big fights they kinda suck because HML application is awful. And with hams they have no range. Better off with sleipnirs or vultures in most cases if you're gonna run a shield command ship doctrine. If you run a command ship fleet is there any way for hostiles to tell which ship is actually dropping the command bubbles?
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Jan 11, 2017 21:40
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Roller Coast Guard posted:If you run a command ship fleet is there any way for hostiles to tell which ship is actually dropping the command bubbles? very careful watching, or ship scanners. But the real trick is that everyone runs a single link, even if its only t1. That way no matter who dies you keep some amount of boosts up. madjack posted:this is was for holesquad specifically, which does a lot of brawling at 0 on holes, so rage kinetic hams + standard crash + one web = 800+ full dps application on an afterburning t3 (assuming command ships 5) Thats fair. Makes sense. Also youd probably need a couple target painters.
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Jan 11, 2017 21:50
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L0cke17 posted:Thats fair. Makes sense. Also youd probably need a couple target painters. On everything except ab logi and t3ds, actually no. Even on them, just swap to faction ammo for ~100dps loss, and a couple of webs does the trick. Nighthawk application bonuses are nuts.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:00
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L0cke17 posted:Nighthawks are Drakes that are better in every way. Sadly in big fights they kinda suck because HML application is awful. And with hams they have no range. Better off with sleipnirs or vultures in most cases if you're gonna run a shield command ship doctrine. Ironically, I'd rather fly a Drake in many cases. The Nighthawk is horribly CPU constrained; while it has decent bonuses and the application is great, getting everything you'd want on it is a hassle, and for HAMs I'd be tempted to fly a Claymore instead due to the higher speed and better slot layout.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:12
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someone here buy a caedes from me, best price guaranteed Ullerm sounds like a guy who needs a caedes
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Jan 11, 2017 23:58
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L0cke17 posted:very careful watching, or ship scanners. But the real trick is that everyone runs a single link, even if its only t1. That way no matter who dies you keep some amount of boosts up. Did CCP ever get rid of off-grid boosters? I haven't played in over a year.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:04
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RazNation posted:Did CCP ever get rid of off-grid boosters? Yes, you have to be within some 60km of most boosting ships to get bonuses now.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:13
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Speaking of boosts, is it worth training command destroyers purely for booshing and killing stuff? I don't mind training some T1 boosting skills but no way am I training WC 5 or a bunch of T2 boosting stuff right now.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:27
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Discussion Quorum posted:Speaking of boosts, is it worth training command destroyers purely for booshing and killing stuff? I don't mind training some T1 boosting skills but no way am I training WC 5 or a bunch of T2 boosting stuff right now. command destroyers pwn I'll make spots on station undocks and just boosh idiots off, it's amazing
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Jan 12, 2017 00:44
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Discussion Quorum posted:Speaking of boosts, is it worth training command destroyers purely for booshing and killing stuff? I don't mind training some T1 boosting skills but no way am I training WC 5 or a bunch of T2 boosting stuff right now. Theyre interesting. Certainly they can be fun and useful, but their dps is quite anemic, so theyre bad for solo. Small-gang theyre fine though. I had a ton of fun with 5 CD alts doing shenanigans in both big fleet stuff and smaller fleet concepts. Also even t1 links are insane, so I highly recommend training t1 skirmish links and t1 info links especially to run the lock range link and the speed link for small-gang fights.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:48
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L0cke17 posted:Theyre interesting. Certainly they can be fun and useful, but their dps is quite anemic, so theyre bad for solo. Small-gang theyre fine though. I had a ton of fun with 5 CD alts doing shenanigans in both big fleet stuff and smaller fleet concepts. Also even t1 links are insane, so I highly recommend training t1 skirmish links and t1 info links especially to run the lock range link and the speed link for small-gang fights. uh they're prettymuch as powerful at facefuck range as a dictor, so you're getting a lot out of them boosh mechanics are either stupidly good (if you can use them), or they'll make your own gang hate you when you somehow boosh them off their target
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Jan 12, 2017 00:52
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Discussion Quorum posted:Speaking of boosts, is it worth training command destroyers purely for booshing and killing stuff? I don't mind training some T1 boosting skills but no way am I training WC 5 or a bunch of T2 boosting stuff right now. Chain booshing station gaming dickheads into a bubble death maw will never, ever stop being funny. Not much chop solo, but in gangs they are gold.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:52
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Landsknecht posted:uh they're prettymuch as powerful at facefuck range as a dictor, so you're getting a lot out of them I should have qualified that as their dps is anemic with long-range weapon platforms. Nearly every small-gang I've done recently has been fast kiting nonsense, not brawling though, so take that as you will.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:57
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It doesn't even take that much to train t2 links. Maybe don't train all the way to the mindlink if you don't want to
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Jan 12, 2017 00:58
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Zephyrine posted:Doesn't a Naglfar with high damage T2 ammo have an ootimal of like 16 km and 19 with em ammo? The naglfar has this thing called barrage that puts it at 41+70 range (so still doing 4250 dps at about 110km), and doesn't have an awkward 100% cutoff right in the middle of useful range. Sure, you could scale the tank down for application, but that hurts your ability to do the one thing you're good at, eating doomsdays in a big brawl. You apply OK to most supers already, it's dreads/carriers that you can't natively apply well to, and your application to them doesn't matter since in most decent size fights the target will die while your missiles are in flight, so you apply nothing.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:16
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The concept of the Phoenix being bad was created by and for the Jita elite in order to make titanium carbide manufacturing less competitive. This smear campaign against the Phoenix being bad are a result of irresponsible decision of a few player organizations to run with a false and unsubstantiated report. Sad! This is fake news, it's a smear campaign by the corrupt to control your decisions to benefit the Eve economic elite and you shouldn't listen to it. It's bad. The Phoenix is very, very good, believe me.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:56
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RazNation posted:Did CCP ever get rid of off-grid boosters? Yep. They're now AOE modules that affect everyone within a certain radius (adjustable by certain mods, rigs, and ship bonuses). This is really nice for several reasons: 1) Death to off-grid boosters 2) Don't have to worry about wing command, fleet command, etc. and assigned boosters -- it just works 3) You can have multiple redundant boosts and it'll always pick the strongest one. So you can do silly things like "okay, sleipnir fleet, everyone who can fit a link fits a link" and have 100+ boosters in fleet. 4) It affects yourself, so you can fly BCs/BSes/CDs and solo with your own links. I've gotten a bunch of fights where I've broken out the surprise self-boosting and zipped up in speed / tackle range / etc. They also changed how link modules work -- instead of having three different armor links, you now have a single armor link with three different scripts. This means you can do a little bit of link-changing on the fly in combat if needed. On the downside, they also significantly reduced how many links you can run at a time -- most booster boats are only running two links now. And they made the Command Processor a rig instead of a module, so you can't increase the number of links without significantly compromising your tank.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:02
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ullerrm posted:On the downside, they also significantly reduced how many links you can run at a time -- most booster boats are only running two links now. And they made the Command Processor a rig instead of a module, so you can't increase the number of links without significantly compromising your tank.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:11
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ullerrm posted:Yep. They're now AOE modules that affect everyone within a certain radius (adjustable by certain mods, rigs, and ship bonuses). This is really nice for several reasons: quote:On the downside, they also significantly reduced how many links you can run at a time -- most booster boats are only running two links now. And they made the Command Processor a rig instead of a module, so you can't increase the number of links without significantly compromising your tank.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:24
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L0cke17 posted:Theyre interesting. Certainly they can be fun and useful, but their dps is quite anemic, so theyre bad for solo. Small-gang theyre fine though. I had a ton of fun with 5 CD alts doing shenanigans in both big fleet stuff and smaller fleet concepts. Also even t1 links are insane, so I highly recommend training t1 skirmish links and t1 info links especially to run the lock range link and the speed link for small-gang fights. A 30 man blops gang was successfully dunking on a horde 150 man fleet one night until our logi got booshed off. They have a place in any fleet engagement that isn't solo really.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:28
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Klyith posted:Everyone in your fleet, or everyone everyone? Everyone in your fleet. Except for the new Titan "spatial phenomena generators" which affect everyone. These were the replacement for the Titan fleet bonuses, and create aoe wormhole-like effects.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:30
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Booley posted:The naglfar has this thing called barrage that puts it at 41+70 range (so still doing 4250 dps at about 110km), and doesn't have an awkward 100% cutoff right in the middle of useful range. It's almost as if, in large engagements, Phoenixes should just target a different primary than everyone else.
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Jan 12, 2017 04:34
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Ynglaur posted:It's almost as if, in large engagements, Phoenixes should just target a different primary than everyone else. Good luck with that. It'd be optimal - but it's probably not going to happen. If you were able to sufficiently organize a bunch of phoenixes, you could use them to alpha through a different set of targets from the rest of the dreads - phoenixes have significantly higher alpha than any other dread, and unlike say an arty nag you don't have to worry about tracking.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:47
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Booley posted:Good luck with that. It'd be optimal - but it's probably not going to happen. If you were able to sufficiently organize a bunch of phoenixes, you could use them to alpha through a different set of targets from the rest of the dreads - phoenixes have significantly higher alpha than any other dread, and unlike say an arty nag you don't have to worry about tracking. To be fair, Phoenixes are much more viable against other caps now that TPs have diminished effect against sieged/triaged caps instead of no effect. One unbonused TP should get you full damage against moving armor caps. The real pain is the delayed application -- and thats why the standard goon fit pre-rebalance had two missile velocity rigs.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:08
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Booley posted:Good luck with that. It'd be optimal - but it's probably not going to happen. If you were able to sufficiently organize a bunch of phoenixes, you could use them to alpha through a different set of targets from the rest of the dreads - phoenixes have significantly higher alpha than any other dread, and unlike say an arty nag you don't have to worry about tracking. hey do you want a new avatar so we don't have to look at this weird rear end one you have
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Jan 12, 2017 07:47
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Booley posted:The naglfar has this thing called barrage that puts it at 41+70 range (so still doing 4250 dps at about 110km), and doesn't have an awkward 100% cutoff right in the middle of useful range. I did some testing if Pyfa with a Phoenix and two application mods. [Phoenix, Phoenix] Capital Emergency Hull Energizer II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Missile Guidance Computer II Missile Guidance Computer II Capital Shield Extender II Capital Shield Extender II Pith X-Type EM Ward Field Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Siege Module II CONCORD XL Torpedo Launcher CONCORD XL Torpedo Launcher CONCORD XL Torpedo Launcher Cynosural Field Generator I Capital Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Capital Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Capital Core Defense Field Extender I DPS (pure specific damage mind you) Range explosion radius explosion speed Rage: 11178 dps 55km 6000m 62 m/s Faction 10247 dps 66km 3567m 73 m/s Javelin: 8384 dps 99 km 3567m 73 m/s Change to range scripts Faction 10247 dps 88km 4987m 55 m/s Javelin 8384 dps 132km 4987km 55 m/s Other than that I could fit 4 bcs due to having 2 extenders instead of 3 and the tank is still 2.5 million ehp unheated. With two bay thrusters. Fittings ~2.8 billion You can exchange range for increased tank and reduced cost by changing a bay rig to a shield rig and meta down the invulns. I disagree that the Phoenix is meant to soak doomsdays because as long as there is anything but a Phoenix on grid. No one will fire on it I'm fairly certain Flanders could make an even better fit.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:49
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Well, I guess that took care of getting a non-probable booster boat into system then. Is the link that exploding star shell effect I see on the videos now? I might just re-sub now........well, after they release the reactor citadel. 
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Jan 12, 2017 12:57
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I might have a chance to get some (~8) Skill Extractor from an old Account, which I thought I might use to set up PI Skills on the 3 characters on my main account. Knowing nothing about PI I started googling PI and wormholes but that resulted in rather conflicting information. Some say I should only produce P1/P2 and straight sell that. Some say creating a chain with the available Planets to create P1 -> P2 -> P3 -> P4 is best. Some say that just importing and creating higher end stuff would be best. Also there were hybrid mentioned, like importing some and creating some yourself. Does anyone have experience with running PI on 3 characters and low-ish amounts of work involved?
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Jan 12, 2017 15:42
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Viva Miriya posted:hey do you want a new avatar so we don't have to look at this weird rear end one you have that didn't work out very well 
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Jan 12, 2017 16:31
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Who is pony avataring people? 
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Jan 12, 2017 16:32
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cybertier posted:I might have a chance to get some (~8) Skill Extractor from an old Account, which I thought I might use to set up PI Skills on the 3 characters on my main account. First off, it a lot of setup but can be worth it if you like semi-passive income once its done. Unless you have a large amount of startup funds, I don't recommend doing factory planets as they can take a lot of money to run and the touch time is quite short, but if you do decide to go down that route you need the upgrades level to 5. As for extraction, I prefer just getting P1s as you don't have to swap heads around when you have imbalances and it still makes good money even after shipping costs, but if you are willing to do a bit of extra work or are shipping it yourself P2s are good too. To figure out builds without spending isk to make sure everything fits use - http://evegadgets.com/#/pi
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Jan 12, 2017 17:25
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