Old Mass Effect Megathread: Original Camera Angles

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Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Lt. Danger posted:

Why do the Reapers, who are literally millenia-old robot gods, care if they are a couple of years late to their century-long harvest?

Why do the Reapers, who are invulnerable to conventional weaponry and have a monopoly on technology, want to make their job "easier"?

Why do the Reapers, who have a notoriously relaxed attitude towards individual rights, care if one of their own dies?

What I'm suggesting is that you (and a lot of other people with these kind of criticisms) aren't really on board with the story Mass Effect is telling - so all these solutions and suggestions boil down to "tell a different story", one in which the Reapers are just a particularly old and scary kind of alien Other.

e: which is fine, like I'm not saying your ideas are bad or wrong, but you're basically proposing rewriting everything, but keeping all the names

The Mass Effect story kept changing its head writer so yeah, things are a mess.

The original story was about how using the mass effect gates to travel around space was causing stars to die. Which is why you have that weird out of place mission in 2 where the star is dying. Writers changed again and we got a lackluster story about big robots. They lost all their cosmic horror appeal and were turned into straight up boring AI's.

The Mass Effect games were good. The story was poo poo.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 15:33

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:52

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

Lt. Danger posted:

Why do the Reapers, who are literally millenia-old robot gods, care if they are a couple of years late to their century-long harvest?

Why do the Reapers, who are invulnerable to conventional weaponry and have a monopoly on technology, want to make their job "easier"?

Why do the Reapers, who have a notoriously relaxed attitude towards individual rights, care if one of their own dies?

What I'm suggesting is that you (and a lot of other people with these kind of criticisms) aren't really on board with the story Mass Effect is telling - so all these solutions and suggestions boil down to "tell a different story", one in which the Reapers are just a particularly old and scary kind of alien Other.

e: which is fine, like I'm not saying your ideas are bad or wrong, but you're basically proposing rewriting everything, but keeping all the names

They don't really my logic there is the timeskip between 1 & 2 want really necessary for the Reaper plot.

In regards to vulnerability to conventional weapons I am pretty sure I killed one with a pistol :derp:

Seriously though I thought Reapers can be killed with conventional weapons the massed firepower of the Alliance fleet seems to kill Sovereign ( not before he takes a dozen or more ships with him)

As for making their jobs easier isn't that the entire purpose of the Citadel and Sovereign in that by locking down the Relays and decapitating organic leadership it fragments resistance? Same with using the Goth and Collectors at all in the games it at least to me makes me think the Reapers while capable of Reaping the Galaxy want to do it as quickly and painlessly as possible. Otherwise why would Sovereign bother with Saren and the Geth if he really was invincible he could just got to the Citadel and tank the fleet. Hell originally before the Protheans dicked with it the Citadel could be activated remotely.

Again if the Reapers don't care about the individuals why does Harbinger callnout Shepard and seem to want him dead. Likewise the Reapers may not care about genocide, but value at least their own existence somewhat if only because if they are destroyed they don't get to continue their prime directive of Reaping.

Like I said earlier the writing in Mass Effect to me doesn't come off consistent and sometimes the Reapers bounce from my vision to the omnipotent force of nature back to some muddled mess.the

Your right, on the rewriting everything I personally was not thrilled with the direction the universe went. I thought the games for the most part worked 2 was a filler episode between 1 & 3 Reaper plots and while I don't like how it fit overall in the story other than the opening beat I really enjoyed the magnificent 7 suicide mission stuff once I was playing the game.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 15:49

nerdz: Oct 12, 2004; Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things.; Grimey Drawer

Which is why me, and possibly other people in this thread are looking forward to a more chill, open ended plot with lower stakes and maybe even self contained this time around!

# ? Jan 12, 2017 15:53

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

nerdz posted:

Which is why me, and possibly other people in this thread are looking forward to a more chill, open ended plot with lower stakes and maybe even self contained this time around!

I agree I really hope that is the case too.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 15:57

Drifter: Oct 22, 2000; Belated Bear Witness; Soiled Meat

nerdz posted:

Which is why me, and possibly other people in this thread are looking forward to a more chill, open ended plot with lower stakes and maybe even self contained this time around!

Hahah yeah right. Good loving luck believing this is gonna be the case.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 16:03

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

"Ryder watch out! The MEGAREAPERS are coming to ULTRA GENOCIDE the galaxy!"

# ? Jan 12, 2017 16:15

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; Can't post for 2 hours!

Phrosphor posted:

Someone was talking like a mass effect xcom game. I was thinking a cool setting would be Garrus's two years of Archangel stuff on omega.

Start off with just Garrus, and then build up a team - slowly clear out omega starting from the bottom or something. I think most of the assets are even already available. You could translate Blue Suns, Eclipse and Blood Pact tactics into a turn based strategy pretty well. Do some cool stuff with biotics. If I had any skill at all it might be a fun little hobby endeavour.

I'm planning on doing a universe with a lot of similarity to ME in a tactical tabletop RPG. A campaign based on cleaning house in Omega is a pro idea and I'm liberating it in the name of the space proletariat.

Thor-Stryker posted:

I keep thinking about how much better ME3 would be if you were just building up space/ground forces to survive/kill the Reaper threat instead of the McGuffin Star Child.

Space Armadas take out Reaper destroyers/transports/Processor ships while Shepard leads the fight on the ground against Harbinger with the vast armies he's gathered throughout the three games, each making appearances in different sections to reward the player for their efforts. Living team-mates also contribute in various cutscenes to make the fight more manageable for Shepard and his squad as they bare down on the final boss. Shepard's final scene is him living/dying and saving/losing the galaxy to the reapers. The End.

I completely agree. I wish ME3 was about actually rallying the galaxy to finally cooperate and defeat the Reapers in a conventional battle. Rather than "We're not gonna beat the Reapers in a straight-up fight. We need a giant superweapon, that we don't know anything about even as we're building it, and a desperate infantry charge into a beam of light."

LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:

ME2 was the worst game wrt the overall reaper plot and the best wrt individual character stories, which is the main reason anyone bothers with these games at all. The reaper story was always poo poo.

Lt. Danger posted:

Jesus Christ. ME2 provides the thematic context that underpins the entire series. It has the tightest and best-written plot of all three. What is wrong with you people?

The thing is, the Reapers are just a manifestation of ME civilization's deep internal problems. This is all over the place in the games, especially in ME2, where there's a constant background noise of NPCs talking about sociopolitical issues.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jan 12, 2017

# ? Jan 12, 2017 16:20

orcane: Jun 13, 2012; Fun Shoe

Haha, keep doing what you're doing Lt. Danger, there's no ironicat big enough for your posts.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 16:46

Drifter: Oct 22, 2000; Belated Bear Witness; Soiled Meat

Halloween Jack posted:

The thing is, the Reapers are just a manifestation of ME civilization's deep internal problems. This is all over the place in the games, especially in ME2, where there's a constant background noise of NPCs talking about sociopolitical issues.

It's an ALLEGORY.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 16:56

Nevets: Sep 11, 2002; Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell

You know what explains all the weird inconsistent behavior from ageless AI superbeings?

Boredom.

Tasked to watch over the Milkyway for thousands of years until every once in a while some space monkey gets smart and learns to split the atom I'd get bored and gently caress with them too. One time release a plague of cyberzombies, another time infiltrate their leadership and make them start purging their own people, whatever seems fun.

Or you job is to make new Reapers: do you constantly poo poo out copy after copy of the same design in a universe where you have functionally infinite time and resources? Or do you get all artisanal, make one reaper entirely from trace metals recovered from the liquified remains of millions of sentient beings, another whose surface is encrusted with pieces of statues & buildings from each races' destroyed capital city, etc.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:10

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Phrosphor posted:

Was there ever an explanation why the Human Reaper that the collectors were building was a big metal robot, skull and all?

Yes, EDI flat out tells you that all Reapers may more resemble their host species in the larval stage but take on a more Reapery appearance as they mature.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:38

Number Ten Cocks: Feb 25, 2016; by zen death robot

exquisite tea posted:

Yes, EDI flat out tells you that all Reapers may more resemble their host species in the larval stage but take on a more Reapery appearance as they mature.

How many complete Reaper creations did you she have to witness before she felt she had enough evidence of that?

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:44

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

She says it's speculation.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:45

Zzulu: May 15, 2009; (â°ËvËâ°)

Moola posted:

"Ryder watch out! The MEGAREAPERS are coming to ULTRA GENOCIDE the galaxy!"

We have to retrieve the SUPERDUPER BEAMTHING to defeat them!!

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:47

inflatable fish: Dec 8, 2016

Ryder Sibling to Ryder PC: "Listen, I've been having these dreams lately where I'm chasing this kid through a park in slow motion..."

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:48

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Zzulu posted:

We have to retrieve the SUPERDUPER BEAMTHING to defeat them!!

it would definitely be nice if MEA is not "We are being attacked by ANCIENT UNKNOWABLE EVIL BEINGS who are set on DESTROYING THE ENTIRE GALAXY and we need to BUILD SPACE TECH to MAKE POOR ALLEGORIES ABOUT COEXISTENCE"

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:50

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

JawKnee posted:

it would definitely be nice if MEA is not "We are being attacked by ANCIENT UNKNOWABLE EVIL BEINGS who are set on DESTROYING THE ENTIRE GALAXY and we need to BUILD SPACE TECH to MAKE POOR ALLEGORIES ABOUT COEXISTENCE"

They hired the Halo 4 guy to write Andromeda so lol to this.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:52

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

exquisite tea posted:

They hired the Halo 4 guy to write Andromeda so lol to this.

decision not to pre-order: vindicated

Lt. Danger posted:

Why do the Reapers, who are literally millenia-old robot gods, care if they are a couple of years late to their century-long harvest?

Why do the Reapers, who are invulnerable to conventional weaponry and have a monopoly on technology, want to make their job "easier"?

Why do the Reapers, who have a notoriously relaxed attitude towards individual rights, care if one of their own dies?

I guess this depends on whether the version of the reapers here is that presented in ME1/2 (firmly in the Other category, you can never know us, etc and so forth) or that presented in ME3 (essentially under the control of another being directing them, only able to make choices within certain parameters, and seemingly bounded by rigid rules on their behavior - so significantly less individualistic)

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:55

Lt. Danger: Dec 22, 2006; jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun

Regarde Aduck posted:

The Mass Effect story kept changing its head writer so yeah, things are a mess.

The original story was about how using the mass effect gates to travel around space was causing stars to die. Which is why you have that weird out of place mission in 2 where the star is dying. Writers changed again and we got a lackluster story about big robots. They lost all their cosmic horror appeal and were turned into straight up boring AI's.

The Mass Effect games were good. The story was poo poo.

The original Mass Effect story was about how the Protheans ("Nazari") grew humans to be their slave-race but then died out, leaving humanity with admin user access privileges over all their old tech lying around the galaxy, and this makes Saren really mad.

Casey Hudson, the guy who thought up the series in the first place and Project Lead throughout, realised this was dumb, said "we'll make it about strong AI and intergenerational conflict instead" and made what would become the Prothean beacon vision that Shepard finds on Eden Prime.

The Reapers never lost their 'cosmic horror' aspect - obliterating your planet and turning you and your loved ones into either a living genocidal monument to your fallen race or mutant zombie shock troops is pretty horrific. I think you might be overstating how "Lovecraftian" the Reapers were by comparison in ME1 and 2.

Jack2142 posted:

A lot of this is supposition overwriting existing characterisation, though. You think Reapers should care about their own individual existence, but in the game Reapers don't mourn Sovereign, the Rannoch Reaper doesn't beg for mercy, and they don't seem to show any instinct for self-preservation. This is characterisation: Reapers don't value their individual existence because they think in terms of civilisations and technological thresholds to an almost monomaniacal degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of them at a minimum willing and able to carry out their collective goals. They don't adapt to the loss of the Citadel trap or make backup plans - because the game wants to show you Reapers are rigid thinkers who do what the Catalyst has always told them to do, and brute force it if they can't. So on, so forth.

It's almost as if they're robots or something! (Or more accurately, angels for a stupid and evil God.)

So if you change this, you lose that (entirely consistent) characterisation - which is what you want to do, so that's cool. But it's not really 'fixing' Mass Effect, just changing it.

orcane posted:

Haha, keep doing what you're doing Lt. Danger, there's no ironicat big enough for your posts.

Come fight me baby bitch loser

# ? Jan 12, 2017 17:59

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

JawKnee posted:

decision not to pre-order: vindicated

I guess this depends on whether the version of the reapers here is that presented in ME1/2 (firmly in the Other category, you can never know us, etc and so forth) or that presented in ME3 (essentially under the control of another being directing them, only able to make choices within certain parameters, and seemingly bounded by rigid rules on their behavior - so significantly less individualistic)

Mass Effect 1 & 2 Reapers are Borg in TNG TV Show, Mass Effect 3 Reapers are the Borg in the movie First Contact.

Lt. Danger posted:

A lot of this is supposition overwriting existing characterisation, though. You think Reapers should care about their own individual existence, but in the game Reapers don't mourn Sovereign, the Rannoch Reaper doesn't beg for mercy, and they don't seem to show any instinct for self-preservation. This is characterisation: Reapers don't value their individual existence because they think in terms of civilisations and technological thresholds to an almost monomaniacal degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of them at a minimum willing and able to carry out their collective goals. They don't adapt to the loss of the Citadel trap or make backup plans - because the game wants to show you Reapers are rigid thinkers who do what the Catalyst has always told them to do, and brute force it if they can't. So on, so forth.

It's almost as if they're robots or something! (Or more accurately, angels for a stupid and evil God.)

So if you change this, you lose that (entirely consistent) characterisation - which is what you want to do, so that's cool. But it's not really 'fixing' Mass Effect, just changing it.

No thats fine, I think there are enough crumbs that were dropped in the first two games that could lead down the path I was suggesting, ultimately the series did not go that direction and went with the existing story which I personally think was less interesting. For the record I never bought the Leviathan DLC which might have better explained the Reapers as presented in ME3.

Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 12, 2017

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:02

Thor-Stryker: Nov 11, 2005

You guys joke about the Megareaper thing, but Disney successfully restarted Star Wars with this very concept.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:05

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

and if ME had 3 awful prequels I guess returning to what worked in the past would be more palatable

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:08

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Thor-Stryker posted:

You guys joke about the Megareaper thing, but Disney successfully restarted Star Wars with this very concept.

It's almost as if superfans for all their gnashing of teeth don't actually want anything new or challenging, but memes and tortured callbacks into infinity.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:10

SgtSteel91: Oct 21, 2010

Lt. Danger posted:

The Reapers never lost their 'cosmic horror' aspect - obliterating your planet and turning you and your loved ones into either a living genocidal monument to your fallen race or mutant zombie shock troops is pretty horrific. I think you might be overstating how "Lovecraftian" the Reapers were by comparison in ME1 and 2.

A lot of this is supposition overwriting existing characterisation, though. You think Reapers should care about their own individual existence, but in the game Reapers don't mourn Sovereign, the Rannoch Reaper doesn't beg for mercy, and they don't seem to show any instinct for self-preservation. This is characterisation: Reapers don't value their individual existence because they think in terms of civilisations and technological thresholds to an almost monomaniacal degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of them at a minimum willing and able to carry out their collective goals. They don't adapt to the loss of the Citadel trap or make backup plans - because the game wants to show you Reapers are rigid thinkers who do what the Catalyst has always told them to do, and brute force it if they can't. So on, so forth.

It's almost as if they're robots or something! (Or more accurately, angels for a stupid and evil God.)

Reading this makes me hate the Catalyst and the Reapers more and glad I had the choice to destroy them (and it's the ending where Shepard can live). Still don't like that Edi and the Geth get caught in it too, but if Shepard can be brought back exactly as they were from being brain dead and brunt from reentry, I bet Edi and the Geth can be rebuilt exactly as they were.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:10

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

SgtSteel91 posted:

Reading this makes me hate the Catalyst and the Reapers more and glad I had the choice to destroy them (and it's the ending where Shepard can live). Still don't like that Edi and the Geth get caught in it too, but if Shepard can be brought back exactly as they were from being brain dead and brunt from reentry, I bet Edi and the Geth can be rebuilt exactly as they were.

Its an acceptable sacrifice its not like the AI's are actually alive anyway.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:13

Pattonesque: Jul 15, 2004; johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

https://www.masseffect.com/andromeda-initiative/training-hub/tempest-and-nomad

new Andromeda Initiative briefing

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:16

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

SgtSteel91 posted:

Reading this makes me hate the Catalyst and the Reapers more and glad I had the choice to destroy them (and it's the ending where Shepard can live). Still don't like that Edi and the Geth get caught in it too, but if Shepard can be brought back exactly as they were from being brain dead and brunt from reentry, I bet Edi and the Geth can be rebuilt exactly as they were.

absent the Reapers EDI and the Geth are 2 of the biggest potential threats to the galaxy - wiping them out in one fortunate swoop was very satisfying. Also they're robots, and I hate robots.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:19

Thor-Stryker: Nov 11, 2005

Pattonesque posted:

https://www.masseffect.com/andromeda-initiative/training-hub/tempest-and-nomad

new Andromeda Initiative briefing

Resource gathering confirmed.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:20

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Pattonesque posted:

https://www.masseffect.com/andromeda-initiative/training-hub/tempest-and-nomad

new Andromeda Initiative briefing

"And, of course, paint jobs"

:laffo:

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:22

SgtSteel91: Oct 21, 2010

Thor-Stryker posted:

Resource gathering confirmed.

But it looks like you can automate it with drones

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:24

AngryBooch: Sep 26, 2009

Thor-Stryker posted:

Resource gathering confirmed.

Lol on foot resource gathering and now in-car resource gathering. yikes

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:27

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

Pattonesque posted:

https://www.masseffect.com/andromeda-initiative/training-hub/tempest-and-nomad

new Andromeda Initiative briefing

"Unless invited" into the lounge you say :heysexy:

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:28

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

AngryBooch posted:

Lol on foot resource gathering and now in-car resource gathering. yikes

Everybody who clamored for "open world exploration, like in ME1" gets to remember what that actually entailed.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:30

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

I am pleased by the return of the Mako

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:32

SgtSteel91: Oct 21, 2010

I'm surprised it still has the vertical thrusters

Gonna get mad air in those low gravity zones with the boosters

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:40

Kibayasu: Mar 28, 2010

I enjoyed riding around Roach in Witcher 3 so if MEA can be even just something like that I'm okay with it. Combined hopefully with better things to find than a pile of rocks (like ME1) or a chest with a weapon worse than the one you literally start the game with (Witcher 3) then that's fine with me as a basic overworld traveling thing.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:44

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

inflatable fish posted:

Ryder Sibling to Ryder PC: "Listen, I've been having these dreams lately where I'm chasing this kid through a park in slow motion..."

"I was having this dream I was chasing a man and/or woman through a forest who was chasing a kid in slow motion, and I was incredibly bored..."

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:45

Avalerion: Oct 19, 2012

JawKnee posted:

absent the Reapers EDI and the Geth are 2 of the biggest potential threats to the galaxy - wiping them out in one fortunate swoop was very satisfying. Also they're robots, and I hate robots.

Geth just wanted to chill in their supercomputer untill the reapers messed with them. Personally I find that goes to the krogan if the genophage is cured (which I did anyway, mind).

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:51

Owlofcreamcheese: May 22, 2005; Can't post for 9 years!; Buglord

Is everyone asking why the mass effect 2 reaper looked human but all the other reapers look like squids not play the leviathan dlc?

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:53

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:52

Avalerion: Oct 19, 2012

It was implied the human reaper is something they do every circle. Original reapers were leviathan based but there should have been a prothean reaper, for example.

# ? Jan 12, 2017 18:57

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