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Ferrinus posted:I've always liked the idea of renaming "demigod" to "human" and getting rid of the as-is human. Yeah this makes sense. Do we really need two human subspecies? Alternatively, rename humans as "Sludge Humans" and demigods as "High Humans"
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Jan 12, 2017 22:08
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Yeah this makes sense. It is fun to play crawl as a High Human
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Jan 12, 2017 22:27
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Mr. Lobe posted:It is fun to play crawl as a High Human
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Jan 12, 2017 22:38
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Can draconians wear any sort of armor??? waht the gently caress
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Jan 13, 2017 00:52
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Darth Windu posted:Can draconians wear any sort of armor??? waht the gently caress They can't wear helmets and anything in the body slot. The natural AC they get is supposed to compensate for this but no body armour means they have no GDR. So they are vulnerable to bad luck in melee wear all their AC gets ignored and they take a ton of damage anyways. I really don't like it.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:01
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As someone who doesn't like demigods I like the idea of them being god-themed draconians.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:05
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there's definitely room for a high-stat race that can't worship gods, but it has always seemed weird to me that the one race that's explicitly connected to the gods is the one used for it
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Jan 13, 2017 01:15
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Internet Kraken posted:They can't wear helmets and anything in the body slot. The natural AC they get is supposed to compensate for this but no body armour means they have no GDR. So they are vulnerable to bad luck in melee wear all their AC gets ignored and they take a ton of damage anyways. I really don't like it. They should probably get some GDR like gargoyles do, maybe increasing as they level up as their scales get harder and tougher.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:16
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that's why they get more AC, which does mathematically mean they receive less damage on average. yes, you can get unlucky, but GDR only mitigates this so much(and only against melee), and having more AC+EV matters more in general. you will get hurt less on average as draconian than as other blasty casters besides gargoyle have we gone thru the looking glass to where GDR is overrated again?
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Jan 13, 2017 01:30
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GDR is not overrated. I've played enough games as draconians to know that their lack of it hurts them. Being vulnerable to high swings in damage is really bad when you aren't a dodgy species. EDIT: I suppose I should clarify; super high amounts of GDR isn't that amazing given it comes with the extreme penalties of heavy armour. However in my experience, the difference between even a small amount of GDR and literally none is quite noticeable. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 01:35
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Is GDR mentioned at all in the game? I wouldn't even know it existed if I didn't see people talking about it here.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:35
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Yeah this makes sense. High human is really more of a gameplay choice.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:38
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Marijuana is illegal
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Jan 13, 2017 02:33
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Ferrinus posted:I've always liked the idea of renaming "demigod" to "human" and getting rid of the as-is human. This, but I'd remove human instead. The name makes them sound newbie-friendly when their lack of focus tends to make things more complicated for those unfamiliar with the game's systems. Maybe bump up Dg's fighting/spellcasting from -1/-2 to 0/-1 to make them a bit more versatile.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:09
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Darth Windu posted:Marijuana is illegal You're breaking into people's homes, killing them, and taking their gold. Then you're chopping them up and eating their corpses if you happen to be hungry. I'm not sure the minor drug possession charge is going to impact your sentence all that much. You can probably toke up.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:18
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Beamed posted:Been a few versions since I played crawl, have they made DemiGods or Mummies fun to play yet? Or have all efforts been put into punishing players? Mummies: Kinda OK, actually. Spellcasting aptitude boosted (trunk spellcasting at +2 instead of -1), Gozag, and Sif Muna. Gozag's okay for your fighter mummies (you can't drink your potions, but that won't stop Gozag from directly injecting them into your corpse), while Sif Muna is a lot more fun for your Ice Elementalists and whatnot. The improved channeling ability is nice, but it now costs piety. Divine Energy, OTOH, does not. It let's you cast a spell without mana for a few turns of -cast. This sounds bad at first glance, but it lets you spend your MP pretty agressively, and then summon ice beasts to cover your retreat every maybe five turns? I won't claim you'll fall in love with mummies, but they've never really been all that amazing. Edit: quote:Remove the Mummy self-restoration ability This also helps.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:26
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Is GDR mentioned at all in the game? I wouldn't even know it existed if I didn't see people talking about it here. it might be in the manual somewhere, but i don't think so. i really hate the concept that some ac is (invisibly) better than other ac... sometimes... it's so clunky!
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Jan 13, 2017 03:37
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PleasingFungus posted:it might be in the manual somewhere, but i don't think so. I dislike it too. Its a useful mechanic but its totally invisible. It'd work better if you had some kind of reference point for it. Or if it didn't exist and GDR was a natural part of all AC that increased as it got higher, though I bet that would require a lot of rebalancing.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:47
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Base AC damage reduction is just subtracting 1d(AC) from all damage, right? If you wanted to move to AC-based (instead of armor-based) GDR, doing something like max(0.1*(AC),1d(AC)) seems reasonable (though the 0.1 number is entirely arbitrary and probably needs to be adjusted).
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Jan 13, 2017 04:09
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IronicDongz posted:yeah like, every suggestion for demigod is overcomplicated because it comes from people who don't like playing them and think they need to be "fixed". but they're already in a good spot. if you tack on more gimmicks to them you're kinda missing the point of the species, and maybe you not liking their playstyle just means you're not the target audience for them. I agree with this but I still don't like demigods. I only have one win with them, so I can't be considered an expert, but I think the lack of religion would actually be an interesting thing to play around if the species by itself were stronger to make up for it. Demigods barely feel stronger than humans without a god until quite late in the game. High HP is overridden by the awful XL growth, so that humans will often have higher or equal HP anyway and high stats are overridden by poor apts. "But Heithinn Grasida", some will surely say, "don't you know that -1 is actually the baseline, average apt and so demigods don't have poor apts at all? " And I'll reply that for the most part that claim is misleading nonsense. Even if it were true that the actual average aptitude is -1, which if I recall, is not the case, there's a big difference between the average aptitude of all skills over all species and the average aptitude of skills into which players actually invest. Most merfolk will use polearms and ice magic, not axes and fire magic. Many centaurs will use a bow. Tengu will probably cast air magic, and not earth magic. Minotaurs invest in weapons, fighting, dodging and armor and only might dip a little bit into casting. Even though the distinction between species based on aptitudes is growing weaker, it is still very strong. It's reasonably to claim that -1 aptitudes are workable, but it's preposterous to claim that they're average. The average aptitude for skills into which players make deep investment is probably a little under 1, which is much higher than -1. Demigods really need faster XL growth, there is simply no reason for it to be so low other than flavor, and they really need better apts. As it stands, they're weaker than many species that can follow a god for most of the game. That changes by the very late game when XL growth and aptitudes are not so important, but they're just miserable to play right up until the very end. If you want a game where you're very strong, but have to adapt to what the dungeon gives you, play a human of Chei or Ashenzari. Both experiences will be like playing a demigod, except fun. Making demigods fun won't require making them gimicky, but it will require making them not suck. I recommend a slight increase in their base stats, boosting their defensive apts to 0, their fighting to +2 and their spellcasting to +1. This keeps the feeling that it's a little harder for them to master specific skills than humans but that they're naturally good at everything. Reducing the amount that they will spend in XP sinks that every demigod is going to invest in will enable them to more versatile, in spite of slowish growth in specific skills. I strongly recommend at least a big buff to their spellcasting, if nothing else, because high int and high spellcasting makes for very fun casters that can do a little bit of everything. DE has that but DE never wants to be a hybrid. If Dg had big spellcasting, I think they might be able to assume a similar playstyle to that which was lost with the removal of HE.
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Jan 13, 2017 08:03
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I like demigods and this post. They even lost stats when their stat growth got changed from sid/2 to choice/3, it'd be nice to have that compensated for with the apts. Playing gimmicky things like DgFi with ALL THE STR is fun, but for hybrid types using all three stats I don't think choice balances -4 total stats.
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Jan 13, 2017 08:09
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Darth Windu posted:It's insane to me that I can't press P to pray anymore but a frilled lizard and a gnoll can get married Maybe Crawl is alright now. 
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Jan 13, 2017 08:14
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Darth Windu posted:Marijuana is illegal Ok, a doctor recommended gameplay choice.
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Jan 13, 2017 11:16
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Demigods should get a fedora and some manga.
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Jan 13, 2017 12:30
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Dg stuff I like Dgs and I agree almost completely, but I feel the solution is probably even simpler: Just remove their negative xp apt and let them level at +0, that's probably enough to tip their power curve back into fun territory again.
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Jan 13, 2017 12:41
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Darth Windu posted:It's insane to me that I can't press P to pray anymore but a frilled lizard and a gnoll can get married New God: Mzga the Orange. The game reverts back to Linley's Dungeon Crawl as you gain piety. Rather than corrode you, yellow draconian spit acts like a Potion of Ambrosia.
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Jan 13, 2017 14:01
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Darth Windu posted:Marijuana is illegal Maybe where you live it is. Prude.
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Jan 13, 2017 15:38
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It always feels weird when people reference old corrosion, that mechanic that only mattered in the early dungeon and basically existed to teach new players to always carry stones so they can fight jellies. It technically existed beyond that but literally every player had like 80%+ resistance to it if they weren't totally immune.
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Jan 13, 2017 15:41
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Time to put on my randart gear so I can clear Slime.
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Jan 13, 2017 15:58
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Time to put on my randart gear so I can clear Slime. Make sure to wear dwarf armor for the slots where you don't have any randarts! Unless you're wearing elvish body armour and the swap hurts your spell success too much...
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Jan 13, 2017 16:17
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Remember to burn your enchant armour and enchant weapons to at least +5 for your body armour and weapon!
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Jan 13, 2017 16:26
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I just wore a cloak of preservation.
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Jan 13, 2017 16:32
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Pray before attacking, pray over corpses I remember back in the day how terrifying centaurs seemed to be to my little minotaur
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Jan 13, 2017 16:35
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I worshipped old Chei and turned a bunch of random poo poo into randarts so I wouldn't ruin my actual good stuff.
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Jan 13, 2017 16:44
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Sage Grimm posted:Remember to burn your enchant armour and enchant weapons to at least +5 for your body armour and weapon! On the other hand, going to +5 is where ?ea and ?ew(i/ii/iii) got a failure chance, so if you wanted to avoid frustration, it might be better to stick to just +4...
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Jan 13, 2017 17:28
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It was what, 90% chance to not disenchant at +4 for a successful corrosion hit? +5 gave immunity.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:40
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rchandra posted:I like demigods and this post. They even lost stats when their stat growth got changed from sid/2 to choice/3, it'd be nice to have that compensated for with the apts. Playing gimmicky things like DgFi with ALL THE STR is fun, but for hybrid types using all three stats I don't think choice balances -4 total stats. All INT on Dg casters is fun too, since you can beat deep elf and have great HP (even though it doesn't matter until something like depths 5 when you will have finally caught up in your primary casting skill). I'm always tempted to invest a little into all three anyway, though, so I can wear heavy armor and have decent EV, so the new stat gain scheme is still a loss for me over the previous one.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:57
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give demigods an atheism 'religion' and have them gain piety by smashing altars when you hit six pips of piety, you can recite the john galt speech
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Jan 13, 2017 18:16
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mormonpartyboat posted:give demigods an atheism 'religion' and have them gain piety by smashing altars Lasts until you take another action besides wait, enemies are confused on the first turn, berserk on the third, and start meleeing themselves on the fifth. Ignores MR.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:28
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Smash altars, forever get that god's wrath but because your god-like aura is much bigger than normal mortals they have a harder time pinpointing your exact position. So occasionally enemies within LOS get targeted by the wrath by mistake. XOM thinks it is rather lame so they won't play with you.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:18
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