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Are there any other traditions (or heresies, I suppose) where God is literally language? I like the idea of taking "the Word was God" to its ultimate conclusion.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:56
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Mr Enderby posted:And as they were eating, Kinky Jesus took tempeh, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, take, eat, this is my ripped, swole body that can do many reps.
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Jan 12, 2017 18:09
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Mr Enderby posted:Agreed. But honestly, she sounds like she was a real chore. Reading it was hard enough, and I can understand how its very important to get a lay persons understanding of faith back then. But Bloody Hell does she sound like one of those people that just craves attention through what is happening.
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Jan 12, 2017 19:18
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Tias posted:He also wanted to nuke the middle east, sure he's your go-to for political opinions? You're dense
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Jan 12, 2017 19:42
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Are there any other traditions (or heresies, I suppose) where God is literally language? What do you mean by "other"? I believe all of the Abrahamic religions consider the text(s) of their scriptures to be special in this way, in different aspects and to different degrees. Also, if you're quoting John ch. 1 here, that line has a lot going on with it. It has that mystical and metaphysical aspect, but it is also sort of an argument for how Jesus fits into Jewish doctrine and prophecy. I don't actually remember the specifics but I think it has to do with how Jewish thought thinks about The Law and The Word as kind of mystical creations of God in and of themselves.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:05
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Caufman posted:That's a good point, nobody really does ask to hear that. why
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Jan 12, 2017 20:19
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I DISCOVERED THIS <NEW THING> AND THIS MAKES ME SUPERIOR TO <PRUDES/FAT PEOPLE>
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Jan 12, 2017 20:25
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JcDent posted:I DISCOVERED THIS <NEW THING> AND THIS MAKES ME SUPERIOR TO <PRUDES/FAT PEOPLE>
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Jan 12, 2017 20:28
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Made Hey Gal laugh - check 
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Jan 12, 2017 20:54
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Are there any other traditions (or heresies, I suppose) where God is literally language? The most-used translation of the Bible into Chinese translates logos into dao which has caused some interesting heresies among westerners who think they've suddenly found the hidden knowledge of Laozi. It's...actually kinda close though. Logos has owes its roots to both Judaism and Hellenistic philosophy. It really has no connection to language at all, or the words of the Bible for that matter. Like, logos in Stoic philosophy referred to the correct ordering of the universe, and the Jews had davar which refers to the speech of God, by which means He created the universe. It's an absolutely beautiful harmonizing of Christ extant before all ages and the right ordering of the universe by the creator. Also I'm like 99% sure the author of John picked it up from Philo of Alexandria.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:55
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The Phlegmatist posted:The most-used translation of the Bible into Chinese translates logos into dao which has caused some interesting heresies among westerners who think they've suddenly found the hidden knowledge of Laozi. It's...actually kinda close though. Were you around for the rear end in a top hat poster Incarnate Dao? Talk about interesting heresies...
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Jan 12, 2017 21:05
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The Phlegmatist posted:The most-used translation of the Bible into Chinese translates logos into dao which has caused some interesting heresies among westerners who think they've suddenly found the hidden knowledge of Laozi. It's...actually kinda close though. That is an interesting thing to learn. I've enjoyed the little bits I've studied of things like the Dao De Jing and the Chinese Rites controversy. It's enjoyable to imagine how my Chinese ancestors may have understood their values and spirituality. I'm also encouraged that the Second Vatican Council says the criteria by which we should decide what is permitted liturgy with respect to native traditions is the harmony it has with the true and authentic spirit of the liturgy. Spiritual authenticity is key. Love which is real bears good fruit in any nationality or language.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Are there any other traditions (or heresies, I suppose) where God is literally language? The Phlegmatist posted:The most-used translation of the Bible into Chinese translates logos into dao which has caused some interesting heresies among westerners who think they've suddenly found the hidden knowledge of Laozi. It's...actually kinda close though. Yeah, the concept of "logos" in Greek philosophy - by the time John was written - had largely shed its etymological relationship with spoken language. It had been refined into a kind of organising principle of the universe ("logic" would probably be a better translation than "word"), much in the same way as "tao/dao" was refined from the concept of "path" and "dharma" was refined from the concept of "law", into organising principles of the universe. So "dao", I'd say, is a very apt translation, even though the etymologies are completely different. As for the connection between language and God, I'm unfamiliar with any religious tradition that would conflate the two, but in the ancient world language was certainly considered to be infused with divine power. In the ancient Near East, for example, it was supposed that there was a causal relationship between the name of an object and that object coming into being. Basically, the gods spoke things into existence. (We can still see the shadows of these beliefs in the first chapter of Genesis.) Similarly, knowing the name of something gave you a certain power over it, and knowing someone's name gave you power over them. This applied to gods as well (to know the name of a god was to have the power to invoke it) which explains why God revealing his name to Moses was a significant moment in the Exodus narrative. Language itself also had a performative power, hence the profusion of curses in the world. Perhaps the closest thing I can think to conflating God with language, though, is the work of the work of Heidegger and Gadamer, who had language tied up very closely to their notion of "Being" (note the capitalisation): Heidegger - "Language is the house of Being". Gadamer - "Being that can be understood is language."
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Jan 12, 2017 22:25
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Blurred posted:As for the connection between language and God, I'm unfamiliar with any religious tradition that would conflate the two, but in the ancient world language was certainly considered to be infused with divine power From the very little I know of it, isn't that what Khabbalah is about? The idea that the text of the Torah contains God?
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Jan 12, 2017 22:41
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Blurred posted:As for the connection between language and God, I'm unfamiliar with any religious tradition that would conflate the two, but in the ancient world language was certainly considered to be infused with divine power.
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Jan 12, 2017 22:48
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The Phlegmatist posted:The most-used translation of the Bible into Chinese translates logos into dao which has caused some interesting heresies among westerners who think they've suddenly found the hidden knowledge of Laozi. It's...actually kinda close though. Mr Enderby posted:From the very little I know of it, isn't that what Khabbalah is about? The idea that the text of the Torah contains God? Though I have often wondered before if this is partly what John's getting at, that Jesus is the incarnate Torah.
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Jan 13, 2017 00:03
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when you hear that bass drop during o fortuna then you get too turnt but squad's got your back  e: I found an old photo of Archbishop Ratzinger 
The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 00:06
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Smoking Crow posted:You're dense I'm proud of you.
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Jan 13, 2017 02:18
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The Phlegmatist posted:e: I found an old photo of Archbishop Ratzinger this is the worst pun and i both hate and love you for spreading it
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Jan 13, 2017 05:44
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Smoking Crow posted:You're dense I have two conditions on the autism spectrum, so yes, I have trouble parsing written language- this leads to people calling me dense a lot, now that you mention it! Could you explain what you meant instead of doing that? Tias fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 09:28
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Tias posted:I have two conditions on the autism spectrum, so yes, I have trouble parsing written language- this leads to people calling me dense a lot, now that you mention it! The verb "queering," as used in Queer Theory, means reinterpreting texts or historical periods through the lens of said theory. The gerund "queering", as used by wrestler and motivational speaker Ultimate Warrior, is a colloquial term for a performative act of homosexuality, presumable that of male sodomy. Smoking Crow's reply to Mo Tzu presents us with a a deliberating misreading of the text, treating the verb as the gerund. This playful substitution of one context for another exposes the original text to a "de-queering", where the precise, academic, and above all Queer understanding of a word is substituted for a colloquial, hetero-normative, and anti-Queer one. By doing so, Smoking Crow's reply makes an eloquent argument for the role of queering in Queer Theory, as a counterbalance to the de-queering inevitably imposed on texts by the hetero-normative environment with which they inevitably come into contact. The fact that the Ultimate Warrior espoused government violence in the Middle East puts him squarely in the trading of right-wing interventionism, which in the 21st century US is strongly associated with hetero-normative and homo-oppressive policies. Therefore any pro-violence comments made said Warrior only underline his role in this hermeneutic as the avatar of hetero-normativity.
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Jan 13, 2017 11:41
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Mr Enderby posted:The verb "queering," as used in Queer Theory, means reinterpreting texts or historical periods through the lens of said theory. The gerund "queering", as used by wrestler and motivational speaker Ultimate Warrior, is a colloquial term for a performative act of homosexuality, presumable that of male sodomy.  Well done. My English isn't nearly sufficent to understand almost any of that. Higher education proven. (No need to clear it up even more, I just stopped to marvel at the post.  )
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Jan 13, 2017 13:11
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actually my use of queering there was a reference to how cisgender and heterosexual people guilty about their privilege are desperate to be included in the queer kids clubhouse and so talk about how they've "queering" heterosexuality by using whips and chains, or the woman works and the man stays at home, or the woman is practically a 50s housewife stereotype if anything i'm opposed to how queer theory, with its ephemeral definition of queer, encourages this, but that's because i see the LGBT community as less "an example for the broader society" and more a political coalition fighting to preserve our collective rights in the face of society's attempts to legislate or otherwise coerce us out of existence. and i just don't see bdsm or ageplay playing any role in that. people might treat you differently if they know you're kinky but that's because kinks are for the bedroom, being LGBT isn't
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Jan 13, 2017 14:02
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God speaks latin, you silly billies.
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Jan 13, 2017 14:14
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Mo Tzu posted:actually my use of queering there was a reference to how cisgender and heterosexual people guilty about their privilege are desperate to be included in the queer kids clubhouse and so talk about how they've "queering" heterosexuality by using whips and chains, or the woman works and the man stays at home, or the woman is practically a 50s housewife stereotype Death of the author, fool.
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Jan 13, 2017 14:19
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Mr Enderby posted:Death of the author, fool. Breath of the author (coffee and cigarettes are nasty- brush your teeth!)
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Jan 13, 2017 14:21
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Mr Enderby posted:Death of the author, fool. but in that context smoking crow's jape becomes a reference to how purity politics focuses on infighting, allowing dominant forces to move mostly unopposed to redefine who we are for us
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Jan 13, 2017 14:24
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Mr Enderby posted:The verb "queering," as used in Queer Theory, means reinterpreting texts or historical periods through the lens of said theory. The gerund "queering", as used by wrestler and motivational speaker Ultimate Warrior, is a colloquial term for a performative act of homosexuality, presumable that of male sodomy. this is one of the greatest posts i have ever read
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Jan 13, 2017 16:41
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Keromaru5 posted:I wonder if this is related to that book I found in Japan that said "The Bible Was Written by Chinese." Maybe. I'm familiar with creationists trying to prove Genesis was literally true by squinting really hard at the Chinese characters for boat (eight mouths! how many people were on the ark!) and devil (it looks like the character for tempter!) I don't know what kind of crazy theories the Japanese would come up with though, but they're good at that thing. After all, Jesus died in Shingo and it really was His younger brother Isukiri who died on the cross. Atonement theories what's that no Jesus lived a peaceful life as a rice farmer c'mon now westerners. There's also some guy who thinks the entire Pentateuch was composed in Alexandria in 273 BC based on Plato's Laws and I need to get around to ordering that book and reading it, because that's pants-on-head crazy.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:40
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Mo Tzu posted:actually my use of queering there was a reference to how cisgender and heterosexual people guilty about their privilege are desperate to be included in the queer kids clubhouse and so talk about how they've "queering" heterosexuality by using whips and chains, or the woman works and the man stays at home, or the woman is practically a 50s housewife stereotype I doubt we disagree that heteronormative folks shouldn't get to queerwash the lovely opressive stereotypes they perpetuate in society, I just read you as saying there can be nothing queer about having a fetish or kinky lifestyle. I apologize, I guess we talked past one another there. quote:if anything i'm opposed to how queer theory, with its ephemeral definition of queer, encourages this, but that's because i see the LGBT community as less "an example for the broader society" and more a political coalition fighting to preserve our collective rights in the face of society's attempts to legislate or otherwise coerce us out of existence. and i just don't see bdsm or ageplay playing any role in that. people might treat you differently if they know you're kinky but that's because kinks are for the bedroom, being LGBT isn't Well yes, but the queer milieu isn't the LBGT movement, and vice versa. Queer theory and the Queer movement is a new way of thinking gender and identity, and in that regard BDSM( particularly female dominance/male submission and gender-switching) has something to offer.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:41
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The Phlegmatist posted:Maybe. I'm familiar with creationists trying to prove Genesis was literally true by squinting really hard at the Chinese characters for boat (eight mouths! how many people were on the ark!) and devil (it looks like the character for tempter!) I don't know what kind of crazy theories the Japanese would come up with though, but they're good at that thing. After all, Jesus died in Shingo and it really was His younger brother Isukiri who died on the cross. Atonement theories what's that no Jesus lived a peaceful life as a rice farmer c'mon now westerners. Maybe I should have bought it when I had the chance.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:01
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Mr Enderby posted:The verb "queering," as used in Queer Theory, means reinterpreting texts or historical periods through the lens of said theory. The gerund "queering", as used by wrestler and motivational speaker Ultimate Warrior, is a colloquial term for a performative act of homosexuality, presumable that of male sodomy. Mo Tzu posted:actually my use of queering there was a reference to how cisgender and heterosexual people guilty about their privilege are desperate to be included in the queer kids clubhouse and so talk about how they've "queering" heterosexuality by using whips and chains, or the woman works and the man stays at home, or the woman is practically a 50s housewife stereotype We are number 1
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Jan 13, 2017 18:25
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Tias posted:I doubt we disagree that heteronormative folks shouldn't get to queerwash the lovely opressive stereotypes they perpetuate in society, I just read you as saying there can be nothing queer about having a fetish or kinky lifestyle. I apologize, I guess we talked past one another there. well there's a reason i've read more butler than sedgwick though if you want to get into it (which i am sure no one wants us to) a lot of queer theory is about power dynamics, and i question whether a dude being subbed by a chick domme is really subverting power dynamics. i know someone once tried to push his forced femme fantasy onto me to fulfill, and while i wrote him off as not worth my time i don't think if i did domme him it would queer much of anything because the dynamic would have been imposing his sexual fantasy onto me, a fantasy that, quite frankly, doesn't "disgust me" but definitely icks me out in a way that's hard to articulate. like i question the utility of bdsm as a lens for social analysis, not the least of which because anti-bdsm feminist analysis has poisoned the well so that any question of, say, daddy dom and little girl dynamics comes with accusations of repeating that same dynamic. no one seems willing to analyze the social dynamics within bdsm that are anti-women (calling women sluts or enacting rape play) and perpetuate homophobia (male subs being called faggots in humiliation play) and transmisogyny (forced femmes calling themselves trannies) honestly and without blanket condemnation or approval. like i for one question whether the male sub gives up power to a domme so much as controls her through his desired scene, if that makes sense, and that's a major reason why i look at a married straight couple talking about queering power dynamics in marriage like they don't belong. i can't, as a straight trans woman, say i'm queer without some sense that in many ways i transitioned out of a lot of homophobia and i don't know why anyone would excitedly declare that because the wife ties up the husband they're suddenly queer
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Jan 13, 2017 19:09
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Right. I don't disagree with any of that, I just still have a vague sense that it's possible to queer BDSM beyond being a queer that participates in kink, but I can't articulate it right now.. Perhaps this would be better continued in the Faggoon thread, if it all?
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Jan 13, 2017 19:14
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i don't think they'd care for the conversation tbh not many are called to the theory life, but those who are are trapped in its grip
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Jan 13, 2017 21:10
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Does Catholic BDSM involve hair shirts and hail Marys somehow Does Orthodox BDSM involve calling your partner "daddy" but NOT "son" Protestant BDSM is when there's no coffee at the potluck
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Jan 13, 2017 21:22
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Pellisworth posted:Does Catholic BDSM involve hair shirts and hail Marys somehow You joke but from what I can tell Catholic imagery is pretty popular in the bdsm scene. The whole "drink my blood" thing is like catnip for gothy types. Also people seem to think nun outfits are sexy   I imagine protestant bdsm is discipline and abstinence. pidan fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 21:28
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yeah, catholic imagery is baroque and morbid, making it perfect for bdsm and gothy people
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Jan 13, 2017 21:52
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pidan posted:I imagine protestant bdsm is discipline and abstinence. Orgasm delay/denial would be right up that alley. Paddling, stocks, what have you. Very puritan. Lots of insults, "you're an awful sinner!"
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Jan 13, 2017 22:20
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WerrWaaa posted:Orgasm delay/denial would be right up that alley. Paddling, stocks, what have you. Very puritan. Lots of insults, "you're an awful sinner!" It's actually how protestants run the world.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:26
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