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Well, given the fact that these turrets weight in at a whopping 1400 tons, bolting them down wouldn't really help if the ship capsizes, they would likely rip out the decks. On Bismarck 's wreck all the turrets have fallen out after she made a turn along her axis after sinking.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:59
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Crazycryodude posted:I mean, it makes sense, it's just a weird image (to me at least) that the turret's not anchored to anything. I logically know that if the ship is turned upside down you've got much bigger problems than your turrets falling out, but it just seems wrong that the main thing differentiating a battleship from a very strangely designed freighter isn't actually bolted on anywhere.  The containers on freighters aren't bolted down either. They fall off fairly often.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:35
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And then you need a retired treasure hunter to dive and retrieve them
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Jan 15, 2017 22:41
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Jeek posted:As the Hong Kong representative of the thread, I wonder why was it taken by the Japanese so early both in history and this game? The original British plan was to build a line of around 200 pillboxes along the ridges north of Kowloon (called the most British name ever - the Gin Drinker's Line). It was estimated that 6 battalions could hold this line for at least 6 weeks while waiting for a relief force to arrive. In the end, only half the pillboxes were built, and when the Japanese invaded, only 3 battalions were assigned to defend the line. Instead of holding out for months, the line folded in 24 hours. 
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Jan 15, 2017 22:56
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Not as embarrassing as "Fortress" Singapore, though.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:59
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Also IIRC they had pitiful air support, little to no artillery support and the brass was feeding the troops such amazing things as the Japanese couldn't fight at night because their eyes were too small to see if the dark (or at least the Canadians were told that....)
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Jan 15, 2017 23:02
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bunnyofdoom posted:Also IIRC they had pitiful air support, little to no artillery support and the brass was feeding the troops such amazing things as the Japanese couldn't fight at night because their eyes were too small to see if the dark (or at least the Canadians were told that....) Well, the British should never have lost Singapore in the first place, but god drat if colonialist racism isn't completely terrifying.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:19
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The primary defence against the Japanese in 1941 was a bunch of dudes with colonial moustaches loudly proclaiming that "they're not going to be stupid enough to attack the British Empire".
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Jan 15, 2017 23:26
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Although in their defense, I seem to recall the Brits were busy with some other European affair at the time. Can't quite recall what it was.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:38
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Mantis42 posted:Although in their defense, I seem to recall the Brits were busy with some other European affair at the time. Can't quite recall what it was. Singers was so important to the British Empire that it should never have been left so poorly defended. It's loss was one of the worst military disasters of WWII.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:49
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Zeroisanumber posted:Well, the British should never have lost Singapore in the first place, but god drat if colonialist racism isn't completely terrifying. This was Hong Kong I was talking about. No Canadian troops were at Singapore.
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Jan 16, 2017 00:46
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Crazycryodude posted:I mean, it makes sense, it's just a weird image (to me at least) that the turret's not anchored to anything. I logically know that if the ship is turned upside down you've got much bigger problems than your turrets falling out, but it just seems wrong that the main thing differentiating a battleship from a very strangely designed freighter isn't actually bolted on anywhere. Early attempts at permanently securing the turrets to the ship that unfortunate effect of breaking things whenever the turret fired, it was better to have the turrets 'floating' so there was a small bit of isolation between the hell the guns were unleashing and the ship structure that didn't enjoy being distorted. Even then BB's had damage repair teams whose job was to run around repairing and straightening the things damaged by their own guns firing. It was also a good idea for the turret to be easily removed due to their tendency to break, wear out and attract enemy fire.
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Jan 16, 2017 07:36
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Still it must have been hell of a bother when you pulled them boats to the shore to store them upside down for winter and the turrets fell off. 
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Jan 16, 2017 07:46
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Hong Kong was doomed for much the same reason that the Philippines (and to a lesser extent Singapore) was: it was completely underneath the pre-war IJA/IJN air umbrella, such that they couldn't ever be resupplied or reinforced.
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Jan 16, 2017 08:30
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Nenonen posted:Still it must have been hell of a bother when you pulled them boats to the shore to store them upside down for winter and the turrets fell off. C'mon, you don't leave everything inside the boat before you flip it. This is basic stuff.
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Jan 16, 2017 15:17
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   I'm feeling these improved torpedoes.   Make that two battleships!  Cheating bombers.   I messed with our CAP setting a bit here.  We also hit a troopship.   We need to see about hunting down those battleships! I shall send out a Butai!  We continue even on ships sunk – points wise, we are well ahead today!
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Jan 16, 2017 18:43
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Nvm, edited it in with the 13th
Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 18:49
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Nvm, edited it in with the 13th Yeah, forgot to mention That! 12'th is a few posts up!
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Jan 16, 2017 18:58
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Grey Hunter posted:
Considering how useless US torpedoes are in the early stages of the war, is there any reason why an Allied player should use their American subs at all for the first two years or so? It seems that a viable, if horribly gamey, strategy would be to only use the Dutch (anyone else?) subs and their working torps to begin with and keep the US sub fleet locked safely away in Californian ports until BuOrd have had the gently caress kicked out of them and poo poo is fixed.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:06
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Roller Coast Guard posted:Considering how useless US torpedoes are in the early stages of the war, is there any reason why an Allied player should use their American subs at all for the first two years or so? Reconnaissance?
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Jan 16, 2017 19:18
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Japanese ASW sucks though, at most you might lose a couple subs, but it doesn't really matter cause they're lovely subs and the US then just shits out submarines in 43" onwards.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:24
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Roller Coast Guard posted:Considering how useless US torpedoes are in the early stages of the war, is there any reason why an Allied player should use their American subs at all for the first two years or so? Experience is always good.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:31
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Yeah the IJN sucks pretty bad at sinking US subs early in the war so there isn't that much risk. In my current US game I still haven't lost a single one as of July 1942. The deck gun still fucks up solo merchants and you do still get occasional hits with the lovely torpedoes.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:40
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  We see more skirmishing in the air.  Rangoon is still a target.   The bombers start making runs on our troops.  Our men in New Caledonia march a hex south. Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 05:32
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TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM WHEN DID THE JAPS INVENT TIME TRAVEL TO MAKE THE 16TH HAPPEN TWICE RR THE WORLD WONDERS
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Jan 18, 2017 05:37
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By the way, for the readers, the bad allied torpedoes have their dud rate reduced by 10% starting in 1943 (The absolute numbers aren't published in the manual as far as I know). In 9 months all torpedoes drop to a mere 10% overall dud rate.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:37
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Crazycryodude posted:TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM WHEN DID THE JAPS INVENT TIME TRAVEL TO MAKE THE 16TH HAPPEN TWICE RR THE WORLD WONDERS
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Jan 18, 2017 06:34
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Grey-Verse experiencing some temporal anomalies, that's two 16th's in a row!
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Jan 18, 2017 07:30
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There's actually something of a debate among Japanese players regarding the possibility of using the Kido Butai against Manila on Dec 7th, rather than against Pearl Harbor. On the one hand, striking at Manila will almost certainly yield more dead subs and ships, and places the KB in a better position to support landings and operations in the DEI. On the other hand, you're mostly killing subs, which some people regard as not being worth the ordnance if they're going to have lovely torps anyway. But then the counter-argument is that you'd still be preventing some non-zero amount of sunk shipping from the ~10% of torpedo shots that do hit and explode, especially compared to hitting BBs which wouldn't be coming anywhere close to a combat situation for most of 1942 anyway. And besides, striking at Pearl Harbor without the historical result means you're probably going to get less than the historical result. Proponents of the Pearl Harbor strike would then say that BBs are worth more points, and are invaluable coastal bombardment platforms for the amphibious assaults that the Allies are undoubtedly going to be making, so crippling some of them, even if only for a year or so, is still valuable. Further, the lack of BB action in 1942 comes from the fact that most of those BBs are in drydock from their Pearl Harbor strike damage in the first place - if you don't strike at Pearl, then who knows if the Allies actually will use them aggressively?
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Jan 18, 2017 08:01
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NGDBSS posted:I love that this isn't even the first time someone's referenced that famous message in this thread. (Though at least this time there shouldn't be any inadvertent probations.) For us ignorant, what message?
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Jan 18, 2017 14:55
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bunnyofdoom posted:For us ignorant, what message? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_world_wonders
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Jan 18, 2017 14:57
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bunnyofdoom posted:For us ignorant, what message? TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM THIRD FLEET INFO COMINCH CTF SEVENTY-SEVEN X WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS TASK FORCE THIRTY FOUR RR THE WORLD WONDERS Someone got probated in the last thread because of full-caps text. edit: this is the best part of the wiki article quote:Recognizing his failure, Halsey sulked in inactivity for a full hour while Taffy 3 was fighting for its life—falsely claiming to be refueling his ships—before eventually turning around with his two fastest battleships, three light cruisers and eight destroyers and heading back to Samar, too late to have any impact on the battle
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Jan 18, 2017 14:59
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For a guy with the nickname "Bull," Halsey was sure a sensitive motherfucker.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:08
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:For a guy with the nickname "Bull," Halsey was sure a sensitive motherfucker. Dude starts crying and goes drat near catatonic because of some security padding. I can think of very few examples of people with thinner skins.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:27
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Crazycryodude posted:Dude starts crying and goes drat near catatonic because of some security padding. I can think of very few examples of people with thinner skins. The first part of the padding was removed before it got to him, but not the second. Halsey thought the message was a direct rebuke from Nimitz, a man not known for personal insults. Considering the massive emotional whiplash he'd just gone through (On the verge of triumph over the infamous Japanese carrier fleet to being responsible for what was quickly appearing to be the greatest disaster in US Naval History), I can understand being a bit upset.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:41
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Failed admiral Nimitz disses me! Will go down in history as INCOMPETENT FAILURE! Sad!
Gervasius fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 15:51
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Taffy 3 getting mauled by pesky IJN! Only I can fix!
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Jan 18, 2017 15:52
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The first part of the padding was removed before it got to him, but not the second. Halsey thought the message was a direct rebuke from Nimitz, a man not known for personal insults. Considering the massive emotional whiplash he'd just gone through (On the verge of triumph over the infamous Japanese carrier fleet to being responsible for what was quickly appearing to be the greatest disaster in US Naval History), I can understand being a bit upset. yeah but like, do your loving job instead of sulking like a child
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Jan 18, 2017 17:55
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  Our planes fly into a massacre.  The AI has decided this is today's priority target – the perils of having your ships set on torpedo runs!  Really?  So many planes destroyed on the ground.  Their B-17's are more accurate than my Bettys!  Plane losses are spiking!   This is one of those eternal battles.  We keep on the grind.  The road to Kunming is open.  So many lost planes, but at least we are making progress in China. I'm taking a crack at Efate with some guards units. Recon says the place is lightly defended – but we'll see.  The Tromp may have been sunk. We'll see.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:11
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@realCLTromp tweeted: "The liberal Japanese intelligence is reporting me as sunk. They can't even keep track of a single ship properly. SAD!"
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 18:19
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