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if luffy doesn't defeat big mam here he's never seeing her again. Like there are so many factors involved I'm not sure why people find it strange he would
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Jan 16, 2017 20:04
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I mean, Gear 4 put Doffy completely out of his league and it was only Luffy's amateur mastery of the form that allowed Dofy to counter-attack. When Luffy busted out King Kong Gun for the first time it utterly obliterated Dofy's strongest attack (which involved Awakening) and ended the arc instantly. Whatever happens here, we're heading straight to Wano afterwards where it's all but certain Kaido is eventually getting his rear end kicked. Kaido is presumably a tougher "fighter" than Big Mom. I dunno guys, I think this is it. There's not really a better time. It's like other have said, there's a difference between: -Supernova beats a yonkou with half his crew beaten up and tired -The future Pirate King, on a wacky suicide mission to get one of his friends, snuck into a yonkou's fortress via a side entrance, tore poo poo up from within, including taking out a Sweet Commander (which took all night, but this is just more of a testament to how distracted Big Mom is this week. If Kaido had shown up at her front door with a week's advance notice, we'd have the "war" people expect from these big pirate crew clashes, a la the Summit War. Things have worked out pretty perfectly for Luffy so far) and disorganized her troops (Mont D'or's out and his prisoners are all loose now, assuming they're not passed out for the rest of the arc), and left with the Road Poneglyph press or whatever he wants. Remember than BM is keeping with the current theme of grossly underestimating the SHs until it's too late. She sent for Sanji in a relatively secretive and disrespectful way, instead of contacting Luffy and demanding Sanji she sent Bege to kidnap him, (which only worked because of the chaos of Dressrosa), if she had any idea Luffy was fighting Cracker all night (and since Pudding told them where to go, we can assume BM had constant tabs on him) she didn't send reinforcements, when Luffy lost at the meeting place, it was basically her entire remaining army minus herself and Smoothie, and Luffy has just gotten kicked around by Sanji. I believe.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:20
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Cracker was second-in-command right? Like the next strongest guy behind Big Mom? I suspect if someone could take out Zoro they'd have a real good shot at being able to take out Luffy as well. Unless they just have a sword-countering devil fruit or whatever. Sarcophallus fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 20:33
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New dub trailer for a boxset that came out litteraly a month ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWUU8Dtm56Y Highlights the problems with Jinbei's dub voice direction, didn't translate well.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:15
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imo luffy doesn't sound any better ...I may be biased against dubs.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:31
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Advice posted:Remember than BM is keeping with the current theme of grossly underestimating the SHs until it's too late. She sent for Sanji in a relatively secretive and disrespectful way, instead of contacting Luffy and demanding Sanji she sent Bege to kidnap him, (which only worked because of the chaos of Dressrosa), if she had any idea Luffy was fighting Cracker all night (and since Pudding told them where to go, we can assume BM had constant tabs on him) she didn't send reinforcements, when Luffy lost at the meeting place, it was basically her entire remaining army minus herself and Smoothie, and Luffy has just gotten kicked around by Sanji. Luffy just finished fighting Cracker, ran into Sanji, got beat up by Sanji, and then swore he wouldn't eat or move from that spot until Sanji came back. Before Big Mom's army came at him, he was complaining about being hungry already and still took gigantic amounts of the army down before he was captured and dragged from the spot he wouldn't move from even during the fight. We're now some time later and he's still chumping everyone he comes across despite being about to fall over from hunger.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:10
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Gyges posted:Luffy just finished fighting Cracker, ran into Sanji, got beat up by Sanji, and then swore he wouldn't eat or move from that spot until Sanji came back. Before Big Mom's army came at him, he was complaining about being hungry already and still took gigantic amounts of the army down before he was captured and dragged from the spot he wouldn't move from even during the fight. We're now some time later and he's still chumping everyone he comes across despite being about to fall over from hunger. And he's only going to get stronger once he eats Sanji's food. Although it wasn't blatantly pointed out by Oda, it was important that Sanji took it with him after leaving Pudding's window. Now that I think about it, why do we call her Pudding and not Purin? I understand that purin is the Japanese word for pudding, but tamago means egg and kuma means bear yet we don't Baron Egg and Bartholomew Bear. I always felt like character names are off limits as far as translations are concerned.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:17
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Sarcophallus posted:Cracker was second-in-command right? Like the next strongest guy behind Big Mom? I don't think it's been specified that he was the strongest. Speaking of the sweet commanders, I wonder if (when?) we'll meet the one who lost their position after being beaten by Urouge. Maybe in a future arc. We haven't even seen Katakuri yet either, which is a little odd since it seems like we're deep in this arc now. quote:Now that I think about it, why do we call her Pudding and not Purin? I understand that purin is the Japanese word for pudding, but tamago means egg and kuma means bear yet we don't Baron Egg and Bartholomew Bear. I always felt like character names are off limits as far as translations are concerned. Yeah, I agree with this. I kind of just call her Purin mentally. It's sort of annoying that all the translators decided to go with Pudding for seemingly no reason (unless there's some particularly good reason behind it).
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Jan 16, 2017 22:38
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Dr Subterfuge posted:imo luffy doesn't sound any better I think 11 episodes of voicing kid Luffy with that strainy voice caused some damage
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Jan 16, 2017 22:40
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Shoren posted:Now that I think about it, why do we call her Pudding and not Purin? I understand that purin is the Japanese word for pudding, but tamago means egg and kuma means bear yet we don't Baron Egg and Bartholomew Bear. I always felt like character names are off limits as far as translations are concerned. i thought kuma was largely being translated as bear these days
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Jan 16, 2017 22:43
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his name is often written in full as bartholomew bear but kuma has stuck around as kind of a nickname
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Jan 16, 2017 22:47
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English localization has used Kuma since everything but maybe the shonen jump 4kids in charge of naming localization
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Jan 16, 2017 23:02
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Gyges posted:Maybe a good progression would be to pick a fight with one of the Emperors, but then get away with it, defeat a high level Navy guy and overcome his entire squad, remove a couple Warlords from the Government's roster, tangle with an Admiral and get out with no real damage, then get in a tousle with another Emperor's crew. About half of that has already happened. The only warlord left at this point who isn't Luffy's friend and/or explicitly weaker than him is Kuma. And even that's questionable, since he guarded the Thousand Sunny while the Strawhats were training as his last act of free will. There really isn't anyone besides Kuma he could remove from the roster. Luffy and Zoro have also tangled with the Admiral Fujitora a couple of times during Dressrosa and both got away with no damage. Both Zoro and Luffy were pretty obviously prepared to go toe to toe with him as well, and Luffy would have if Hajrudin and company didn't drag Luffy away against his wishes. And while that isn't defeating a high level navy guy and his entire crew, there was no other crew there that presented even a hiccup to anyone else because Admiral's don't typically travel with high level crew by the look of it. The Hats also defeated Jack and his crew, who were some of Kaido's top people fairly easily. Silver2195 posted:As I see it, the proper progression will most likely be beating an Emperor (Kaidou) with the help of a bunch of allies, beating the World Government with a bunch of allies, then beating an Emperor (Blackbeard) with just the core Straw Hat crew. Luffy isn't going to win against an Emperor's organization here when he doesn't even have Zoro with him. You are flat out crazy if you think Oda is going to blow the Chekov's Gun that is the Strawhat Alliance before the big finale. I also think Luffy beating Big Mom without Zoro is a pretty Oda thing to do, if only because it gives Sanji something to mock Zoro about for the next arc or so, that he was there to beat up an Emperor's crew while Zoro was just off playing samurai or whatever. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 23:03
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tsob posted:You are flat out crazy if you think Oda is going to blow the Chekov's Gun that is the Strawhat Alliance before the big finale. I also think Luffy beating Big Mom without Zoro is a pretty Oda thing to do, if only because it gives Sanji something to mock Zoro about for the next arc or so, that he was there to beat up an Emperor's crew while Zoro was just off playing samurai or whatever. sanji's bounty will go over zoro's and the entire infrastructure of the world will collapse
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Jan 16, 2017 23:05
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Remember how mad Franky got when Usopp's bounty surpassed his? Imagine if Nami, Brook and Chopper all got a big boost ahead of him. I mean it isn't thing to happen, but it sure would be funny.
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Jan 16, 2017 23:12
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Gyges posted:She'll either steal most of Luffy's life force only for him to get it and everyone else's life force back after beating her, or Brooke will negate any attempts to life steal via guitar solo. I think Big Mom's method of torture (ie 'hell') is using her DF power to bring people within an inch of dying but keep them there indefinitely for them to feel complete agony, even worse than Luffy's struggle with Magellan's poison. e: I still mentally substitute 'Mazalan' for Magellan. It just sounds cooler and more demonic. He's still one of my favorite characters just from his design and powers. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 23:37
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:I think Big Mom's method of torture (ie 'hell') is using her DF power to bring people within an inch of dying but keep them there indefinitely for them to feel complete agony, even worse than Luffy's struggle with Magellan's poison. And then I flipped the "l" and the "z" to "Malazan" and started thinking about the torture that is immortality.
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Jan 16, 2017 23:49
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tsob posted:About half of that has already happened. The only warlord left at this point who isn't Luffy's friend and/or explicitly weaker than him is Kuma. And even that's questionable, since he guarded the Thousand Sunny while the Strawhats were training as his last act of free will. There really isn't anyone besides Kuma he could remove from the roster. Luffy and Zoro have also tangled with the Admiral Fujitora a couple of times during Dressrosa and both got away with no damage. Both Zoro and Luffy were pretty obviously prepared to go toe to toe with him as well, and Luffy would have if Hajrudin and company didn't drag Luffy away against his wishes. And while that isn't defeating a high level navy guy and his entire crew, there was no other crew there that presented even a hiccup to anyone else because Admiral's don't typically travel with high level crew by the look of it. The Hats also defeated Jack and his crew, who were some of Kaido's top people fairly easily. All of it already happened. When I was writing that I originally added beating Jack to the list of things that they've already done since the time skip that show them doing impressive poo poo. Then I remembered that they didn't actually interact with Jack at all. Sanji and that half of the crew beat up Sheepshead and sent him on his way, but when Jack came back he was taken out by Zoushi via the direction of Momonosuke. The Strawhats didn't get a chance to beat up on a billion dollar man. Teriyaki Koinku posted:e: I still mentally substitute 'Mazalan' for Magellan. It just sounds cooler and more demonic. He's still one of my favorite characters just from his design and powers. Nah, he's Gellin.
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Jan 16, 2017 23:52
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I understand that Luffy trained with one of the strongest characters in the One Piece universe for a long time, but I still don't think he should be able to just effortlessly roll over one of the four current most powerful pirates. If Big Mom was that easy, they could have sent over Kizaru and just wrecked her poo poo, or one of the other three emperors could have easily done it too, especially during the power struggle left after Whitebeard and Ace died.
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Jan 17, 2017 00:39
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RealFoxy posted:I understand that Luffy trained with one of the strongest characters in the One Piece universe for a long time, but I still don't think he should be able to just effortlessly roll over one of the four current most powerful pirates. If Big Mom was that easy, they could have sent over Kizaru and just wrecked her poo poo, or one of the other three emperors could have easily done it too, especially during the power struggle left after Whitebeard and Ace died. It's probably going to be an even more drawn out slog than any previous fight has been. To be honest I'm not looking forward to the fight itself all that much, because it needs to be pretty drat momentous for Luffy's first victory over a Yonkou. Remeber Crocodile had like three not-super-brief fights to emphasize what a different order of magnitude he was from Luffy's East Blue opponents. The only conceivable scenario in which Big Mom gets out of this is if she "beats" Luffy and he barely escapes or whatever, and then she's actually taken out by another character to build up a new villain later on. But Luffy vs. Big Mom is now or never.
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Jan 17, 2017 00:48
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I think he should, because Luffy isn't a little bitch and is gonna be the Pirate King.
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Jan 17, 2017 00:49
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All I ask is that we don't have to have another recharge countdown.
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Jan 17, 2017 00:51
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Eiba posted:I don't think anyone thinks it'll be easy. You must have badly misread the conversation to get that out of it. I think Oda said there were about thirty chapters left in this arc, ten chapters ago.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:06
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Dr Subterfuge posted:And then I flipped the "l" and the "z" to "Malazan" and started thinking about the torture that is immortality. I just want to let you know that I enjoyed that joke.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:23
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Advice posted:I mean, Gear 4 put Doffy completely out of his league and it was only Luffy's amateur mastery of the form that allowed Dofy to counter-attack. When Luffy busted out King Kong Gun for the first time it utterly obliterated Dofy's strongest attack (which involved Awakening) and ended the arc instantly. Yeah, but Luffy was pretty outclassed by Doflamingo before because armamanted Jet attacks were too weak to even hurt him and his gigant ones were too slow. It felt like the whole Moriah thing all over again where he has to use a risky Kaioken-style attack he clearly hasn't mastered to keep up with his enemies.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:40
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What if big mom gave 1000 "lives" of life to Kaido, either because they are related somehow or ex lovers, or just to mess with him. Every time they clash she gives him more? I guess not because then she'd be immortal.
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Jan 17, 2017 02:01
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Oxxidation posted:I think Oda said there were about thirty chapters left in this arc, ten chapters ago. it was stated whole cake island was about halfway done 4 chapters ago.
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Jan 17, 2017 02:06
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RealFoxy posted:I understand that Luffy trained with one of the strongest characters in the One Piece universe for a long time, but I still don't think he should be able to just effortlessly roll over one of the four current most powerful pirates. If Big Mom was that easy, they could have sent over Kizaru and just wrecked her poo poo, or one of the other three emperors could have easily done it too, especially during the power struggle left after Whitebeard and Ace died. The power of the Emperors, the Admirals, and the World Government big shots isn't that they can't be beat in a one on one fight. Arguably Whitebeard before he was on his deathbed and Kaido are like that, but they're the exceptions. Their power is that they control a certain amount of territory and underlings that make it so that you can't just waltz up to them and fight them one on one. Huge swaths of which Luffy and his stealth force bypassed by being sneak invited to Sanji's wedding. As it is, they are currently able to piecemeal take out Big Mom's bigger players and use current conflicts between factions to further their advance. Big Mom and Sanji's family's attempts to gently caress him and each other over have lead the current situation with the angry rubber man running wild like Hulkamania. Think about Luffy as one of the big powers in the world of One Piece. He's got a bunch of weaknesses that could be exploited to take him out if you can get a one on one fight. Several people in the world of the story have Almost Got Him stories. But the reason he's still running around on adventures is that he's surrounded by his crew and their allies. A crew that is the smallest of any pirate group we've seen, other than Mihawk, and allies that have only recently become powerful enough to make a huge difference. poo poo, the whole story would have ended way back in East Blue if Luffy's dad hadn't shown up to stop Smoker. The Strawhat Stealth Squad effectively bypassed all of Big Mom's equivalent insulating power. Edit: Think about Fisher Tiger. He was a powerful dude, but he was only able to wreak revenge on the World Nobles by bypassing all their defenses via climbing the Red Line. A crazy, insane, unfathomable thing. Which he did and then got to burning down the house. A feat any number of strong as all gently caress people in the setting couldn't have done with their vast fleets and armies. Gyges fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 02:07
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Dr Subterfuge posted:And then I flipped the "l" and the "z" to "Malazan" and started thinking about the torture that is immortality. Lol. High House Chains needs a Herald.
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Jan 17, 2017 02:09
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Last Celebration posted:Yeah, but Luffy was pretty outclassed by Doflamingo before because armamanted Jet attacks were too weak to even hurt him and his gigant ones were too slow. It felt like the whole Moriah thing all over again where he has to use a risky Kaioken-style attack he clearly hasn't mastered to keep up with his enemies. Felt more like Rob Lucci and Gear 2nd to me, since he had a new power up he wasn't really acclimatised to and was close to winning using it, but fell down and needed outside intervention to give him the last chance to finish the fight. Despite struggling with Gear 2nd there, by the climax of the next arc against Moriah he was much more comfortable using it. tsob fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 04:42
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the doffy fight is a poor gauge because he only used gear 4th due to being under a time limit
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Jan 17, 2017 04:52
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luffy defeated a yonko officer and went toe to toe with an admiral. the only source of conflict in terms of fights left for him are the yonko and a couple other randos.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:59
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RealFoxy posted:I understand that Luffy trained with one of the strongest characters in the One Piece universe for a long time, but I still don't think he should be able to just effortlessly roll over one of the four current most powerful pirates. If Big Mom was that easy, they could have sent over Kizaru and just wrecked her poo poo, or one of the other three emperors could have easily done it too, especially during the power struggle left after Whitebeard and Ace died. I agree with what everyone else has already said about this, but I want to add one more thing: Luffy could beat up Kizaru. I think that's where we're differing. When you say stuff like "effortlessly", "roll over" and "easy", it sounds like you don't think Luffy's very strong. Big Mom is a big deal, but so is Luffy. He's been Emperor tier since the two year jump. He stomped rear end on Fish Man Island and crushed a super powerful and entrenched Warlord. He has an armada and has already be staking claim to islands. The only thing he hasn't done is prove himself the equal of another Emperor. Which he will when he beats Big Mom.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:21
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Gear 4 vs Doflamingo was basically like a fully grown adult vs a child. Yonko is a primarily political position, and Big Mom deals primarily in political power. I don't mean to imply that the Yonko themselves aren't physically formidable, but rather to clarify the source of their "Yonkoness". It took the majority of Big Mom's forces to take Luffy, in an already weakened state, down. They took significant losses in the the bargain. Luffy is going to eat maybe the best and most meaningful meal Sanji has ever created. Luffy will beat Big Mom up, he's going to punch the hell out of her. And try this one on for size: Luffy's own stated role as a crew member is to defeat those foes the rest of his crew cannot handle. Sanji cannot and will not hit a woman. If I was Pudding I would make sure to stay well the gently caress away from Luffy.
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Jan 17, 2017 06:52
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Oxxidation posted:I think Oda said there were about thirty chapters left in this arc, ten chapters ago. Yeah there's also this. This arc is wrapping up soon by Odas own admission so we get to Reverie and Wano this year. If you think an event like beating an Emperor is happening when Odas going about this massive setup just to prepare for beating Kaidou, i'm sorry I dont think you know what you're talking about. It's not about Luffys strength, it's about where the narrative is heading and right now the narrative is being setup so that Luffys actions on this island are going to have Big Mom deadset on chasing him across the New World and decimating any allies (this is where the Fishman island prophecy comes in) for assisting him in retaliation for his actions. He's going to strike some sort of huge blow here no doubt, but this is not where he beats her. This is where he enrages the crap outta her. Thats why the explosive box is being setup the way it is.
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Jan 17, 2017 08:10
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NecroMonster posted:Gear 4 vs Doflamingo was basically like a fully grown adult vs a child. Although it would mean a whole, whole lot just to have a panel where Sanji smacks her breaking two of his biggest rules, don't hit a woman, and don't use your hands for anything but cooking. In regards to Warlords, I think that logically if Luffy takes down one on his own, then Blackbeard will probably take out shanks later on, and the Supernovas might team up to take out Kaido together.
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Jan 17, 2017 08:11
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tsob posted:Felt more like Rob Lucci and Gear 2nd to me, since he had a new power up he wasn't really acclimatised to and was close to winning using it, but fell down and needed outside intervention to give him the last chance to finish the fight. Despite struggling with Gear 2nd there, by the climax of the next arc against Moriah he was much more comfortable using it. I kind of always felt like Moriah was the continuation of the basic idea IceMan started, that Luffy and his crew were not remotely ready for the New World. Like, their first fight was hardly a fight, Luffy just got clowned in the most anticlimactic manner possible.
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Jan 17, 2017 08:34
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RealFoxy posted:Although it would mean a whole, whole lot just to have a panel where Sanji smacks her breaking two of his biggest rules, don't hit a woman, and don't use your hands for anything but cooking. Sanji is only going to break one rule. He'll reveal that he learned Muay Thai during the timeskip 
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Jan 17, 2017 08:45
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Asuron posted:Yeah there's also this. This arc is wrapping up soon by Odas own admission so we get to Reverie and Wano this year. If you think an event like beating an Emperor is happening when Odas going about this massive setup just to prepare for beating Kaidou, i'm sorry I dont think you know what you're talking about. It's not about Luffys strength, it's about where the narrative is heading and right now the narrative is being setup so that Luffys actions on this island are going to have Big Mom deadset on chasing him across the New World and decimating any allies (this is where the Fishman island prophecy comes in) for assisting him in retaliation for his actions. He's going to strike some sort of huge blow here no doubt, but this is not where he beats her. This is where he enrages the crap outta her. Thats why the explosive box is being setup the way it is. i don't think beating a yonkou is that big of an event just like beating a shichibukai wasn't that big of an event, people are giving titles more importance than this story ever has.
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Jan 17, 2017 09:21
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Elfgames posted:i don't think beating a yonkou is that big of an event just like beating a shichibukai wasn't that big of an event, people are giving titles more importance than this story ever has. Beating Crocodile was the climax built up to after 4 separate arcs. And the actual fights had Crocodile thrashing Luffy twice (and made it clear that Luffy would have died from the third fight if not for Robin). It was absolutely a huge event.
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Jan 17, 2017 09:27
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