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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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What's 'lol' is assuming that the negative consequences of leaving one free trading area will necessarily lead to increase in support for Scotland leaving a far more important one.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:04
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| # ? May 17, 2024 08:04 |
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Pissflaps posted:What's 'lol' is assuming that the negative consequences of leaving one free trading area will necessarily lead to increase in support for Scotland leaving a far more important one. I didn't say the polls would go in one specific direction, but material conditions changing will definitely change public opinion. It's the only thing that matters.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:18
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Fiction posted:I didn't say the polls would go in one specific direction, but material conditions changing will definitely change public opinion. It's the only thing that matters. Absolutely - which is why we should pay attention to public opinion now and see how it changes, not wave it away as unimportant because we hope we'll prefer what it tells us at some point in the future.
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Jan 3, 2017 16:20
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Pissflaps posted:Absolutely - which is why we should pay attention to public opinion now and see how it changes, not wave it away as unimportant because we hope we'll prefer what it tells us at some point in the future. An important point, Pissflaps. We should carefully note contemporary polling so that when opinion eventually shifts in favour of independence, after the forthcoming recession and subsequent discontent at Whitehall's incompetence, we will be able to properly assess the impact of Brexit on the national question.
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Jan 3, 2017 21:30
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It's a sad fact that many nationalists will be praying for economic misery for millions just to further their separatist aims.
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Jan 3, 2017 21:43
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Pissflaps posted:It's a sad fact that many nationalists will be praying for economic misery for millions just to further their separatist aims. Truly sad, Pissflaps. I'm sure supporters of the union are happily welcoming the nascent recovery in the oil industry, having spent so much time developing constructive solutions to the sector's problems and contributing towards detailed plans for the diversification of the North East's economy, rather than making petty and irrelevant constitutional arguments based on 2014 alternate history scenarios.
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Jan 3, 2017 21:54
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That sentence is too complex and sarcasm laden to parse. Can you break it down a bit?
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Jan 3, 2017 22:29
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Pissflaps posted:The NHS is devolved, and we're referring to Scottish independence polling. A quick injerjection on this point since the rest of what you've said is pretty spot on wrt polling. The NHS is devolved but if the Tories continue privatisation then the consequentials allocated to Scotland via Barnett will decrease, leading in a reduction of funds available to the Scottish NHS. So, while the NHS is indeed devolved, it's funding is still heavily dependent on the actions of the UK government.
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Jan 3, 2017 23:18
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Soft Brexit means Indy Ref is off the table Polling numbers figure into nothing, clearly.
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Jan 6, 2017 10:54
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I'm surprised it's been said out loud.
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Jan 6, 2017 11:17
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Pissflaps posted:I'm surprised it's been said out loud. She either believes Soft Brexit won't happen, or she reckons the chances of winning a referendum if we do stay in the single market are so low, it's not worth running the campaign without a different impetus to cause it.
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Jan 6, 2017 11:26
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An aspect of this is that it takes off the table the idea that Scotland could vote for independence and then negotiate seamless transition of membership with the eu. The timescales involved were always ambitious but if there was another referendum, it won't be a straight immediate choice between the UK and the EU.
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Jan 6, 2017 11:32
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Fiction posted:I didn't say the polls would go in one specific direction, but material conditions changing will definitely change public opinion. It's the only thing that matters. what about people looking funny eating sandwiches
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Jan 6, 2017 11:41
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Let's be fair, there was a lot more wrong with Ed Milliband than his sandwich-eating technique. Many adverse qualities that he has actually seemed to shed since his bid to lead the country, though that might be a matter of optics rather than personal growth.
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Jan 6, 2017 12:09
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TomViolence posted:Let's be fair, there was a lot more wrong with Ed Milliband than his sandwich-eating technique. Many adverse qualities that he has actually seemed to shed since his bid to lead the country, though that might be a matter of optics rather than personal growth. The only picture I saw of him post election he'd grown some extremely questionable facial hair.
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Jan 6, 2017 16:33
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A question settled for a
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Jan 8, 2017 15:29
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It hasn't even been a Pokémon generation.
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Jan 8, 2017 15:46
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Bluffing pro tip: never admit you are bluffing.
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Jan 8, 2017 18:49
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Also he's a regular reminder that she can't 'call' a referendum.
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Jan 8, 2017 18:50
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I just saw the artists impression of the replacement Bridge of Dee that the SNP have pledged to build if they gain control of City Council in May. It would require demolishing Boots and the old AAA building and moving several houses, a roundabout and the Ghillies Lair about 20 yards out. Someone needs to learn what a tape measure is and how to use it.
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Jan 10, 2017 11:12
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This has nothing to do with politics but my brother in law was visiting over Xmas and hogmanay and he became addicted to irn Bru and junk food such as sausage rolls and bridies. He even started eating rowies when we went up to Aberdeen... No wonder men die so young in Scotland. Oh we also went to the boardgame cafe down the road and it was actually ace. Maybe I am a boardgame dweeb now.
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Jan 10, 2017 14:08
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I mean, while it's only been 27 months since the referendum, I'd argue that the Western World has changed more significantly than it has in the past 27 years. When I voted No in 2014 it was with the vague idea that a unified UK in the EU was important to the defense and coherence of the West as a whole, but I didn't expect the UK and US to veer away from Europe to the extent that they now have. I think it's wrong to say that generational changes can't happen abruptly, and if they do I'm not sure it's unreasonable to ask constitutional questions again regardless of how much actual time has passed.
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Jan 17, 2017 12:45
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vegetables posted:I mean, while it's only been 27 months since the referendum, I'd argue that the Western World has changed more significantly than it has in the past 27 years. When I voted No in 2014 it was with the vague idea that a unified UK in the EU was important to the defense and coherence of the West as a whole, but I didn't expect the UK and US to veer away from Europe to the extent that they now have. I think it's wrong to say that generational changes can't happen abruptly, and if they do I'm not sure it's unreasonable to ask constitutional questions again regardless of how much actual time has passed. Putting aside how strongly I disagree with the statement of '27 months greater than 27 years' (Berlin Wall, 9/11 being pretty solid contenders for 'bigger events in the western world than brexit and a tangerine ballbag becoming president' imo)... When we do the referendum dance again does it not become more likely that the requirements for asking the question will get lower? this feels like one of those slippery slope things where it's just 'keep asking until you get the answer you want' things.
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Jan 17, 2017 12:55
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While I'm opposed to any more referendums on any topic in the UK, the reaction from nationalists to losing another independence referendum would be quite a spectacle and almost make it worthwhile.
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Jan 17, 2017 12:57
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Sion posted:Okay, but when we do the referendum dance again does it not become more likely that the requirements for asking the question will get lower? this feels like one of those slippery slope things where it's just 'keep asking until you get the answer you want' things.
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Jan 17, 2017 12:58
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I'd want to see Sturgeon in the Tower of London .
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Jan 17, 2017 12:59
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Sion posted:When we do the referendum dance again does it not become more likely that the requirements for asking the question will get lower? this feels like one of those slippery slope things where it's just 'keep asking until you get the answer you want' things. The first referendum was held on the basis that the SNP wanted independence and the Tories wanted them to shut up. Asking for a second referendum now will be on the basis that the Tories have absolutely hosed the UK and the SNP want to preserve Scotland by taking it out. That's a higher requirement for asking the question, not lower.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:03
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Sion posted:Putting aside how strongly I disagree with the statement of '27 months greater than 27 years' (Berlin Wall, 9/11 being pretty solid contenders for 'bigger events in the western world than brexit and a tangerine ballbag becoming president' imo)... The Berlin Wall didn't fall in the last 27 years; I chose my time period carefully so I could exclude it in a sophistic way. But I honestly think 9/11 is vanishingly significant compared to the realignment we're seeing now.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:04
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Scotland's membership of the UK isn't contingent on the UK's membership of the EU: while it doesn't surprise me to see nationalists use it as a casus belli, that doesn't mean they should be indulged.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:09
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vegetables posted:The Berlin Wall didn't fall in the last 27 years; I chose my time period carefully so I could exclude it in a sophistic way. But I honestly think 9/11 is vanishingly significant compared to the realignment we're seeing now. 9/11 and the ensuing war on terror is vanishingly insignificant, aye? also, fair point about the Berlin Wall. I was 2 months out.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:11
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Pissflaps posted:Scotland's membership of the UK isn't contingent on the UK's membership of the EU: while it doesn't surprise me to see nationalists use it as a casus belli, that doesn't mean they should be indulged. Jedit is literally the most anti-SNP member of Something Awful.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:12
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vegetables posted:Jedit is literally the most anti-SNP member of Something Awful. Stay on target.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:15
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vegetables posted:Jedit is literally the most anti-SNP member of Something Awful. ...why are you telling me this?
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Jan 17, 2017 13:18
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Pissflaps posted:...why are you telling me this? Sion posted:Stay on target.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:27
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I don't understand this post.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:29
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Pissflaps posted:I don't understand this post. I think people are trying to have a discussion about something that doesn't involve going 'this guy is a poo head' 'no this guy is/i don't get what you mean' By telling people to stay on target, I am attempting to keep the thread on the target of discussing scottish politics rather than the people posting in the thread about scottish politics.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:32
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I'm fascinated to see Sturgeon's response to May's speech: how can she not ask for a referendum now that no single market membership or special Scottish deal has been confirmed?
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Jan 17, 2017 13:35
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https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/821362320383311873 Sturgeon has bottled it.
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Jan 17, 2017 15:25
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No, it's the right decision. The narrative the SNP are spinning is that they've been responsible and tried everything they could possibly have done to keep Scotland both in the UK and in the EU. Acting now before the vote in Westminster would undermine that fatally, especially since the Conservatives and Labour approving of the Brexit terms is going to be a key part of their argument for independence.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:08
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| # ? May 17, 2024 08:04 |
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She laid down a line that's now been crossed and her rhetoric is moving away from demanding another referendum. It's a bottle job. The painted face brigade will be furious.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:15
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