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Aleph Null posted:If you want to pay for it, all you have to do is find a doctor. Is this actually true? I don't think I could get treatment without some sort of diagnosis, even paying cash.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:17
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Is this actually true? I don't think I could get treatment without some sort of diagnosis, even paying cash. You'd have to test it, but I'm fairly sure there's a doctor out there willing to do pretty much anything you want, cosmetically, so long as you can convince them you're of sound mind or deep enough pockets. Otherwise people like Stalking Cat couldn't exist. Most medical professionals would have deep ethical concerns that you aren't actually harming yourself, though. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 21:37
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Aleph Null posted:If you want to pay for it, all you have to do is find a doctor. But this is insurance. People would abuse any system that didn't require proof. Hell, they abuse it now with fake proof. Are you claiming people are going to get sex changes for fun just so they can feel like they got one over on an insurance company? 
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Jan 15, 2017 12:46
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VitalSigns posted:Are you claiming people are going to get sex changes for fun just so they can feel like they got one over on an insurance company? I believe he was talking about in general, not specifically about GRS.
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Jan 15, 2017 14:13
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There seems to be an increasingly prevalent trend of "progressive" writers singling out and disparaging white gay men in a way that they would never talk about any other minority group in any context. Pretty much nothing in these articles is backed up be even a single shred of factual evidence, the writer just seems to be blaming all sorts of social problems on white gay men because their level of privilege makes it acceptable to do so. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-islamophobia-and-the-toxic-delusion-of-white_us_585b2659e4b068764965ba35 There's just so much here that would never be accepted when discussing another minority group, but is considered acceptable by these people because of their oppression olympics view of identity politics. 1. 23% of the LGBT community supported Trump in exit polls, but without having any actual crosstabs this is just blamed entirely on gay white men. Hispanic voters supported Romney and Trump at similar levels but criticizing people based on race is not acceptable while criticizing people based on sexual orientation is OK I guess according to the privilege hierarchy. 2. All gay white men are somehow associated with Milo and Christopher Barron, even though the former explicitly does not identify with the LGBT community in any form and trashes them at every opportunity. This same tactic would not be used on "Hispanics for Trump" or any other minority group even though LGBT support for Trump was a small minority just as in the case of other minorities. 3. The issue of masculinity/femininity in the LGBT community is blamed entirely on white gay men again based on zero evidence, even though it's an issue that cuts across all races. 4. Racism in the LGBT community is somehow a problem for men only, sexism in the LGBT community is somehow the problem of white gays only. Again zero evidence is offered to suggest that gay men are more racist than lesbians or that white gay men are more misogynistic than gay men of other races. It's just assumed that these problems stem from white gay men because they're more privileged, even though social views pretty much never follow those simplistic lines in reality. After Prop 8 there was an ugly trend of people trying to blame the failures of gay marriage at the ballot box on the African American community because they had a lower percentage of support for gay rights than the general population. I saw this as unproductive and rightfully assumed that over time attitudes would change, and they have. Now there are a bunch of people trying to play the same oppression olympics, divide-and-conquer tactics within the LGBT community but based on no evidence whatsoever other than the fact what gay white men are obviously privileged and therefor not a real minority group. This is very disturbing and does not give me a good feeling about the future of LGBT politics. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 01:00
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I guess people react to the most vocal idiots, which are often white, male/DMAB LBGT individuals. For instance, the most influential gay guy in my country dines with several ministers, and constantly spews hateful rants against women, immigrants and all other gays than himself. That sort of exposure leads some to assume white gay guys are the worst, even though it's mostly just that guy who's an idiot.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:02
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Isn't there some internet law about straight white guys can do anything and no one cares, but if a minority does something then they represent every single member of their group. Straight white guys hates on women and immigrants? Wow, that guy's a jerk. Gay guy hates on women and immigrants? Wow, all gay men are such jerks!
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Jan 17, 2017 17:36
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Gorilla Salad posted:Isn't there some internet law about straight white guys can do anything and no one cares, but if a minority does something then they represent every single member of their group. That's pretty much covered in male/white/straight/etc. privilege.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:04
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Gorilla Salad posted:Isn't there some internet law about straight white guys can do anything and no one cares, but if a minority does something then they represent every single member of their group. This is criticism that has been brought up repeatedly by the rest of the LGBTQ community for a long time now. White gay men are the least oppressed out of any queers, and a lot of them are oblivious, ladder-pulling assholes happy to rest on the rights their predecessors bled for because they're cushioned with privileges of race and gender. Is that all white, gay men? No, but if it ain't about you then it ain't about you. And if you're just learning about this criticism from a college student's Huffpo piece then that's you being ill-informed, not some new form of gay-bashing.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:07
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PT6A posted:That's pretty much covered in male/white/straight/etc. privilege. When you call out privilege to people who have it, it feels like oppression. Sucks, doesn't it?
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Jan 17, 2017 18:18
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Shukaro posted:Why should other people have the right to decide how, why, and when you can or cannot alter your own body? I would hope that any reduction in gatekeeping would still require some kind of screening sufficient to make sure that people aren't getting life-altering surgery because they had some kind of other mental illness that caused them to become fixated on the idea of transgender surgery.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:19
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shovelbum posted:I would hope that any reduction in gatekeeping would still require some kind of screening sufficient to make sure that people aren't getting life-altering surgery because they had some kind of other mental illness that caused them to become fixated on the idea of transgender surgery.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:21
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shovelbum posted:I would hope that any reduction in gatekeeping would still require some kind of screening sufficient to make sure that people aren't getting life-altering surgery because they had some kind of other mental illness that caused them to become fixated on the idea of transgender surgery.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:22
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Aren't both of those examples reportedly pretty happy with the whole thing?
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Jan 17, 2017 18:25
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MaxxBot posted:There seems to be an increasingly prevalent trend of "progressive" writers singling out and disparaging white gay men in a way that they would never talk about any other minority group in any context. Pretty much nothing in these articles is backed up be even a single shred of factual evidence, the writer just seems to be blaming all sorts of social problems on white gay men because their level of privilege makes it acceptable to do so. There's just so much here that would never be accepted when discussing another minority group, but is considered acceptable by these people because of their oppression olympics view of identity politics. It's some bullshit. It's super cool that I don't qualify as "minority enough" I guess because I'm too light of a guy of italian+mexican heritage (Actually a woman but woops about probably ever getting that addressed and fixed any time soon), even though I still belong to a group where plenty of people would love to beat me to death solely for existing or having the gall to show affection or even just closeness to a boyfriend anywhere in public. I just wonder when my lack of melanin will also somehow let me get around all the brutal transphobia that becomes more common all the time as well. The people who also get on about "You can just blend in and hide it and be an average 'white' person though!" can also feel free to go to hell, please do advocate a queer person just get back in the closet some more. shovelbum posted:Aren't both of those examples reportedly pretty happy with the whole thing? Catman I forget their name, is dead nowadays and killed themselves if I remember right, so ehhhh on that one. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 18:27
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They also paid for their surgery out of pocket. I don't think that "independently wealthy transgendered individuals" is a large enough constituency to worry about. Independently wealthy people can bypass gatekeepers because that is what money does.
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Jan 17, 2017 19:04
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Chelsea Manning is getting her sentence commuted.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:10
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Taitale posted:Chelsea Manning is getting her sentence commuted. I don't know how military law or presidential commutations work but is this something that can be reversed by the next president?
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Jan 18, 2017 01:57
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No.
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Jan 18, 2017 02:36
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Not legally, at any rate.
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Jan 18, 2017 03:15
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Eh living in Texas you meet plenty of other white gay men whose conception of gay rights is "I should be treated equally in America's whites-only men's club ('real' men only)", the criticism has merit. Meanwhile nobody has ever told me I must be a racist because I'm white, ever, so it seems to me the former is a somewhat bigger problem.
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Jan 18, 2017 04:10
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VitalSigns posted:Eh living in Texas you meet plenty of other white gay men whose conception of gay rights is "I should be treated equally in America's whites-only men's club ('real' men only)", the criticism has merit. Meanwhile nobody has ever told me I must be a racist because I'm white, ever, so it seems to me the former is a somewhat bigger problem. Interestingly enough, rural gay men often have sex with their 'buddies' but identify as straight, because being gay is not part of their identity. There was a study on it, though I can't seem to find it again, it was pretty mind blowing.
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Jan 18, 2017 08:39
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Well you could always do your own study with BRO! A safe space for guys who may not identify as gay or bi to find other guys for sex, friends, dates, and long-term bromances!
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Jan 18, 2017 09:00
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Tias posted:Interestingly enough, rural gay men often have sex with their 'buddies' but identify as straight, because being gay is not part of their identity. There was a study on it, though I can't seem to find it again, it was pretty mind blowing. https://www.researchgate.net/public...ve_Sex_With_Men This one?
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Jan 18, 2017 09:31
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Yaaassss, thanks!
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Jan 18, 2017 10:22
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VitalSigns posted:Well you could always do your own study with BRO! A safe space for guys who may not identify as gay or bi to find other guys for sex, friends, dates, and long-term bromances! An app for internalized homophobia -- neat!0
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Jan 18, 2017 13:16
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VitalSigns posted:Well you could always do your own study with BRO! A safe space for guys who may not identify as gay or bi to find other guys for sex, friends, dates, and long-term bromances! To be fair that's an attitude present in a lot of cultures.
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Jan 18, 2017 13:18
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Brb, coding an app called Shieldbrothr
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Jan 18, 2017 13:45
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:An app for internalized homophobia -- neat!0 Eh, gayness has a culture associated with it that might seem like an awful lot of work if you don't live in a place that actually has access to it, it's nice to use the term just to describe someone's kinsey rating but there's a lot more stuff associated with the word that's probably a bit of a departure from your life in bumfuck nowhere, so I can't really poo poo on people for not feeling able to identify as gay.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:56
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They feel that way because of homophobia. hth
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Jan 18, 2017 17:57
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I don't think it's necessarily homophobic to not feel able to identify as a thing you have no experience with. Like yeah if I'm going to be a cynic then sure all hicks are homophobic assholes but if I'm going to try and be charitable to people grappling with their sexual identity then maybe "being gay" does connote more than just "man who has sex with men" because its historic ostracism did lead to the development of a complex culture associated with the sexuality and still has people both gay and straight who, not unreasonably, view that culture as being a very important part of gayness. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 18:05
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I've spent a lot of time in bumfuck nowhere and not only is it untrue that there is no gay scene in rural areas, I've never met anyone who likes their own gender but wont call it gay because of some sense of cultural alienation. It's always they ain't some sissy-fag, a.k.a they aren't a woman, and I'm not going to be sympathetic to misogyny.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:12
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Maybe I'm a big babby then because mostly I just feel bad that there's some poor fucker going around terrified 24/7 of being a sissy-fag. Not least because it's actually quite nice.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:18
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I think biphobia/being unaware men can be bi is probably part of it as well. They figure if they like girls, they can't be gay, so their attraction to men gets repressed because "I'm not gay"
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Jan 18, 2017 18:27
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OwlFancier posted:Maybe I'm a big babby then because mostly I just feel bad that there's some poor fucker going around terrified 24/7 of being a sissy-fag. No you're just one in a long line of oblivious men who would like to keep making excuses for misogyny instead of tackling it head on. Toxic masculinity sucks. It hurts men, it hurts gay men, but it hurts out gay men and people who aren't men the most. In the broad sense of things, closet bros are more enablers than victims, and I'm not going to mince words about that just because it's the nice thing to do. Stop hating women so much that you fear even a passing association with their behavior.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:35
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... What? I said I feel sorry because people are that self loathing. Because they shouldn't feel that way, because there's no good reason to...
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Jan 18, 2017 18:38
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there wolf posted:No you're just one in a long line of oblivious men who would like to keep making excuses for misogyny instead of tackling it head on. Toxic masculinity sucks. It hurts men, it hurts gay men, but it hurts out gay men and people who aren't men the most. In the broad sense of things, closet bros are more enablers than victims, and I'm not going to mince words about that just because it's the nice thing to do. Ouch, settle down there bucko, I don't know how you got "I hate women" from them there posts.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:42
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Tias posted:Interestingly enough, rural gay men often have sex with their 'buddies' but identify as straight, because being gay is not part of their identity. There was a study on it, though I can't seem to find it again, it was pretty mind blowing. I can talk about this from personal experience if anyone's curious.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:47
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I can talk about this from personal experience if anyone's curious. *pulls up a chair* "Go on..."
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Jan 18, 2017 18:53
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Tias posted:Interestingly enough, rural gay men often have sex with their 'buddies' but identify as straight, because being gay is not part of their identity. There was a study on it, though I can't seem to find it again, it was pretty mind blowing. This goes all the way back to Kinsey as I recall, he noted a wide variation in how much "has sex with dudes" affected guys' self image and idea of themselves.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:55
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